,,კრემლისთვის მიუღებელია მისი ისტორიული გავლენის ზონაში თავისუფალი, დემოკრატიული სახელმწიფოების არსებობა”
ლაშა ხომერიკი 593 50 82 69 –
msoflio axali realobis winaSea – ruseTma farTomasStabiani omi wamoiwyo ukrainis da, zogadad, dasavleTis winaaRmdeg. mTeli msoflio ara marto gmobs kremlis agresias ukrainis mimarT, aramed agresiis obieqts exmareba saxelmwifoebriobis dacvaSi. es udavoa. Cndeba kiTxvebi: mosalodnelia Tu ara agresiuli fonis zrda? SeZlebs Tu ara dasavleTi ruseTis Sekavebas? kandidatis statusis miniWebaze uaris SemTxvevaSi pasuxismgebloba vis daekisreba? – am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze sakuTar Tvalsazriss bsu-is profesori laSa baJunaiSvili gviziarebs.
– amJamad dasavleTis da ruseTis dapirispirebis areali ukrainaa. ra mizani amoZravebT rogorc ruseTs, ise aSS-s da, zogadad, dasavleTs ukrainasTan mimarTebiT?
– konkretul strategiul miznebze saubari Zalian rTulia, radgan deklarirebulad amaze arcerTi mxare ar saubrobs. yvela zogadi gancxadebebiT Semoifargleba, magram warsulsa da awmyoSi regionSi ganviTarebul an mimdinare movlenebs, aseve wamyvani saxelmwifoebis liderebis gancxadebebs da maT politikur (maT Soris samxedro) nabijebs Tu davakvirdebiT, aSkaraa, rom orive mxare (dasavleTi da ruseTi) regionSi didi cvlilebebisTvis arian koncentrirebuli. ruseTis tradiciuli interesia, aRidginos 1991 wlis Semdeg dakarguli gavlenebi centralursa da aRmosavleT evropaSi, Sav zRvasa da kavkasiaSi. es ukanaskneli evropisTvis alternatiuli energotranzitisa da axali abreSumis gzis `Sua koridoris~ marSrutis ganviTarebis kuTxiT umniSvnelovanes strategiul kvanZs warmoadgens. moskovis TvalTaxedviT, Tavisi miznebis misaRwevad aucilebelia, `axlo samezobloSi~ aRdges rusuli gavlena. amisTvis igi moiTxovs ara mxolod evroatlantikuri struqturebis gafarToebis Sewyvetas, aramed mis ukan daxevas 1997 wlis poziciaze. bunebrivia, kremlSi yvelaze reaqciuli frTac ki kargad xvdeba, rom es martivi ar iqneba, amitom ukrainaSi, manamde ki saqarTveloSi SemoWriT igi cdilobs miitacos is geopolitikurad mniSvnelovani sivrceebi, romlebic misi tradiciuli `buferebiT SemosazRvris strategias~ minimalurad mainc daakmayofilebs. evroatlantikur alianss regionSi ori mniSvnelovani mizani aqvs: pirveli – uzrunvelyos natos da evrokavSiris qveynebis usafrTxoeba, Seqmnas ruseTisagan damoukidebeli, alternatiuli energo da savaWro-satranzito derefani, amisTvis ki aucilebelia evroatlantikur struqturebSi miiwvion aRmosavleT evropis is qveynebi, romlebsac centraluri aziis regionTan damakavSirebeli sazRvao da saxmeleTo gzebis ganviTarebis SesaZleblobebi aqvs. am TvalsazrisiT Tamamad SeiZleba iTqvas, rom saqarTvelos evropis kavSirSi gawevrianebiT dasavleTi miiRebs wmindad `evropul energoderefans~, romliTac SeZlebs ruseTisagan damoukideblad kaspiis auzis da iranis energomatareblebis transportirebas evropul bazrebze, xolo CineTTan vaWrobisas – alternatiuli da diversificirebuli komunikaciebi Seqmnas (am kuTxiT umniSvnelovanes rols Seasrulebs anakliis Rrmawylovani navsadguri, romlis agebac amJamad, rusuli interesebis gamo, faqtobrivad, SeCerebulia) rogorc saxmeleTo (TurqeTis TanamonawileobiT), aseve pirdapiri sazRvao gziT. natos aRmosavleTiT gafarToebis Semdeg mniSvnelovan gamowvevad gadaiqca samxreTis flangis gaZliereba, romelic moiTxovs Sav zRvaSi aliansis poziciebis gamyarebas, amis saSualebas ki zRvis naxevrad daxuruli (igulisxmeba 1936 wlis montres konvenciiT dawesebuli SezRudvebi) statusi ar iZleva, amitom aucilebelia misi revizia. yofili sabWoTa respublikebic dainteresebuli arian, ruseTis mavne gavlenebs Tavi daaRwion, demokratiul Rirebulebebze dafuZnebuli saxelmwofo aaSenon da globalur Tu regionul saerTaSoriso sazogadoebebSi Rirseuli adgili daimkvidron. bunebrivia, dasavleTis gegmebi ruseTis interesebs ewinaaRmdegeba. kremlisTvis miuRebelia misi istoriuli gavlenis zonaSi Tavisufali, demokratiuli saxelmwifoebis arseboba, alternatiuli, konkurentuli savaWro-satranzito potencialis ganviTareba da yovelives xist Zalas upirispirebs. moskovi ara civiluri politikiT, aramed iaraRiT upirispirdeba demokratiul Rirebulebebze dafuZnebul partniorul urTierTobebs, Zalis gamoyenebiT cdilobs, Sewyvitos mezobeli saxelmwifoebis ganviTareba da maTi sagareo-politikuri arCevanis Tavisufleba.
– meore msoflio omis Semdeg evropas aseTi farTomasStabiani omi ar axsovs. SeeZlo Tu ara dasavleTs misi Tavidan acileba, Tundac 2014 wlidan mZlavri ekonomikuri sanqciebis dawesebiT?
– dRes ukve rTulia, visaubroT imaze, ris gakeTeba SeiZleboda an ra Sedegs mogvcemda esa Tu is RonisZieba, Tumca faqtia, rom ruseTTan daSoSminebis politikam ar imuSava, piriqiT, igi agresiisken waaxalisa. istoriulad dasavleT evropas sakmaod didi gamocdileba aqvs, rom esmodes, ra Sedegebi SeiZleba moitanos `daSoSminebis politikam~, Tumca Taobebis Semdeg man Secdoma isev dauSva – jer 2008, xolo Semdeg 2014 wlis rusul agresias mtkiced ar aRudga win, Tundac mkacri sanqciebiT an evroatlantikuri integraciis sferoSi ufro Tamami gadawyvetilebebiT.
– ra aCvena msoflios ukrainaSi ruseTis omis mexuTe Tvem?
– upirvelesad, aCvena, rom ukrainelebi Seupovrad daicaven samSoblos da Tavisuflebas. ukraineli xalxis winaaRmdegobam, aseve mokavSireTa erTsulovnebam, maTma samxedro-ekonomikurma, diplomatiurma, sxva daxmarebam da msoflio sazogadoebis reaqciebma aCvenes, rom solidarobas da Tavisuflebisken swrafvas veranairi armia da samxedro upiratesoba ver gadawonis. ukrainis magaliTze aSkara gaxda, rom Tanamedrove msoflioSi Zaladobis Sekaveba ara mxolod iaraRis, aramed saerTaSoriso sazogadoebis konsolidaciiT da agresori saxelmwifos `geopolitikur martoobaSi~ datovebiT, sanqciebis, izolaciisa da gariyvis SiSiT aris SesaZlebeli.
– ra aris ruseTisTvis sasurveli maqsimumi da minimumi am omSi?
– ruseTi cdilobs, ukrainas samxedro operaciebis gziT waarTvas rogorc aRmosavleTi, ise zRvispira regionebi da igi metwilad mowyvitos Sav zRvas. es samxedro moqmedebebi meore da mesame fazasac kargad etyoba. samxreTSi rusebis programa maqsimumia – odesis regionis gavliT dnestrispireTTan daamyaros pirdapiri saxmeleTo kontaqti da `anakondis rkaliT~ mowyvitos igi Sav zRvas da mxolod kontinentze Caketil saxelmwifod gadaaqcios. amiT igi sami umniSvnelovanesi amocanis gadaWras Seecdeba: 1. mTlianad daamyarebs kontrols CrdiloeT SavizRvispireTze; 2. Savi zRvis sanapiroebisgan mowyvetiT ukraina dakargavs ekonomikuri ganviTarebis udides potencials, sazRvao da satranzito funqcias. kievs evropasTan ekonomikuri urTierTobebisTvis mxolod erTaderTi – saxmeleTo gza darCeba, sadac komunikaciebis ganviTareba da masze savaWro-satranzito sistemebis gadawyoba xangrZlivi, rTuli, ZviradRirebuli da, Sesabamisad, ararentabeluric iqneba; 3. ekonomikurad dauZlurebuli ukraina martivad moeqceva ruseTis gavlenis qveS.
– rogor fiqrobT, ukraina sakmaris samxedro daxmarebas iRebs am etapze dasavleTisgan, rom okupirebuli teritoriebi daibrunos?
– oficialuri kievis gancxadebiT, isini ver iReben sakmaris iaraRs, Tumca omSi CarTuli qveynis mxridan msgavsi gancxadebebi gasakviri ar aris. ukraina motivirebulia, mters meti SemarTebiT gauwios winaaRmdegoba da omis qarcecxli mosazRvre ruseTis regionebSi gadaitanos. dasavleTi SiSobs, rom ruseTis teritoriaze intensiuri sabrZolo moqmedebebis gadatana (Tundac Sors msroleli saartilerio da saraketo saSualebebiT) moskovs saSualebas miscems, aamoqmedos birTvuli doqtrinis is muxlebi, romelic mas masobrivi ganadgurebis iaraRis gamoyenebis safuZvels Seuqmnis (Tundac mcire muxtis taqtikuri SeiaraRebis gamoyenebiT). rogorc Cans, dasavleTi did fsons ruseTis dauZlurebisa da gamofitvis strategiaze debs. dro am SemTxvevaSi ruseTis sawinaaRmdegod muSaobs. Tavis mxriv, oficialuri kievis damokidebulebac obieqtur Sefasebas moiTxovs. amJamad SedarebiT neli tempebiT mimdinareobs uaxlesi da ufro efeqturi samxedro teqnikisa da iaraRis miwodeba, romliTac SesaZlebelia ruseTis Setevebis mogerieba. marTalia, gaWianurebuli omi ukrainisgan kidev ufro did msxverpls da ngrevas moiTxovs, Tumca faqtia, rom ruseTis damarcxeba mxolod dauZlurebis strategiiT aris SesaZlebeli.
– ramdenad erTiania dasavleTi ukrainis mxardaWeris TvalsazrisiT? magaliTad, safrangeTis prezidentma ganacxada, rom ruseTi ar unda davamciroT. . .
– dasavleTi demokratiuli sazogadoebaa da, bunebrivia, calkeuli saxelmwifos gansxvavebuli azri misaRebi da angariSgasawevia. Tuki romelime saxelmwifo an lideri erTjeradad gansxvavebul azrs gamoTqvams an gancxadebebs gaakeTebs, es ar niSnavs, rom ruseTis agresiis mimarT uaryofiTi, xolo ukrainisadmi solidarul damokidebulebas dasavleTSi erozia gauCnda. msgavsi fuWi warmodgenis Seqmna da mere misiT manipulireba, TiTqos ruseT-ukrainis sakiTxSi dasavleTi sistemurad aris stratificirebuli, moskovis sainformacio omis wisqvilze asxams wyals. garda amisa, gasaTvaliswinebelia is faqtic, rom periodulad msgavsi gancxadebebi SesaZloa konkretul interesebs emsaxurebodes. magaliTad, zogierT evropul qveyanas omamde ruseTTan mWidro ekonomikuri TanamSromloba hqonda, amitom xSirad uxdebaT im jgufebis interesebis gaTvaliswineba, romlebsac ruseTTan aseTi kavSirebi hqondaT. magaliTad, omisa da sanqciebis gamo, evropis bevr qveyanaSi energomatareblebze fasebma mniSvnelovnad moimata, Sesabamisad, uaryofiTi Sedegebi aisaxa fasebze da socialur-ekonomikur ganviTarebaze. amitom xSirad mmarTvel gunds uxdeba iseTi gancxadebebis gakeTeba, romlebic Sida publikaze aris gaTvlili.
– alaparakdnen ruseTis danaSaulebze ukrainaSi. aSS-is prezidentma putins samxedro damnaSave uwoda. Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb?
– ukrainaSi agresiiT ruseTis samxedro Zalebi rom omis danaSauls sCadis, es naTelia. ukrainis xelisufleba amaze saomari moqmedebebis dasawyisSive alaparakda. Semdeg vixileT buCaSi, irpensa da sxva qalaqebSi datrialebuli tragediebi. dRes suraTi kidev ufro masStaburia. ukrainis genprokuror irina venediqtovas gancxadebiT, 24 Tebervlidan dRemde yoveldRiurad ramdenime aTeuli, xSirad ki 200-dan 300-mde saqme aRiZvreboda da ukve registrirebulia omis 21 aTasi danaSaulis saqme. aseT viTarebaSi omis Semdeg bevri rusi, im droisTvis ukve yofili Tu moqmedi samxedro, pasuxisgebaSi miecema, Tuki ukrainulma mxarem igi Tavisi an partniori saxelmwifos iurisdiqciaSi moixelTa.
– aranakleb mniSvnelovani iyo evrokavSiris amaswinandeli verdiqti sam postsabWoTa qveyanasTan mimarTebiT. Tu wlis bolos evrokavSirma ar mogvaniWa kandidatis statusi, es ramdenad daazaralebs saqarTvelos?
– oligarqze damokidebulma xelisuflebam saqarTvelos prestiJi ukve mniSvnelovnad daazarala. erT dros aRmosavleT partniorobis CarCoSi warmatebulma qveyanam kandidatis statusi ver miiRo. Cavardnilma sasamarTlo reformam, politikuri patimrebis arsebobam, Tavisufal mediasa da samoqalaqo sazogadoebaze zewolam, Zaladobrivi da prorusuli dajgufebebis waxalisebam, Sida politikur asparezze polarizaciisa da siZulvilis enis mizanmimarTulma danergvam, aseve am midgomebis sagareo politikaSi gadatanam, vgulisxmob, ukrainis xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebze, aseve evropel da amerikel partniorebze sityvier Tavdasxmebs da maTi imave stiliT lanZRvas, rogorc amas qveynis SigniT politikuri oponentebis mimarT akeTeben, Tavisi Sedegi gamoiRo. normalur, demokratiul qveyanaSi premieri Tavisi gundiT ukve gadamdgari, qveyana ki vadamdeli saparlamento arCevnebis ritmSi unda iyos, amis nacvlad ki vismenT sruliad absurdul gancxadebebs, TiTqos kandidati qveynis statusze meti miviReT, kvlav partnior saxelmwifoebs esxmian Tavs, TiTs isev briuselisken iSveren da gaiZaxian, rom ukraina da moldova saqarTvelosTan SedarebiT nakleb warmatebuli iyo da rom evrokavSirma saqarTvelosTan mimarTebaSi usamarTlo gadawyvetileba miiRo, gvarwmuneben, TiTqos Cvenma geopolitikurma mdebareobam gadawyvita Cveni sakiTxi negatiurad, arada swored Cveni strategiuli mdebareoba aris Zlieri argumenti saqarTvelos evropul ojaxSi gawevrianebisa da imis maCvenebelic, xangrZliv perspeqtivaSi ra sargebeli SeuZlia moutanos man energodamoukideblobis da usafrTxoebis sakiTxebSi evropas, romlis Sesaxebac zeviT ukve visaubreT. Tumca gadamwyvet momentSi xelisflebis arcerT warmomadgenels ar umuSavia, rom daerwmunebina evropeli partniorebi maSin, roca briuselSi saqarTvelos sakiTxi wydeboda, sagareo saqmeTa ministri lokokinebis fermis prezentacias eswreboda, xolo qarTveli diplomatebi, savaraudod, Tbilisidan saWiro instruqciebsa da moqmedebis uflebamosilebas moklebuli iyvnen. Tuki am SesaZleblobebis farglebSi saqarTvelo ver moaxerxebs evrointegraciis sakiTxebSi winsvlas, xelidan gavuSvebT wevrobis kandidatis statusis da, zogadad, wevrobis Sanss, es iqneba qveynisTvis gamousworebeli ziani da momavali Taoba aucileblad gadaixdis Zalian maRal fass. es unda afiqrebdes amJamindel xelisuflebas da Tuki Cvens TaobasTan ver grZnobs Sesabamis angariSvaldebulebas, mas aucileblad mouwevs momaval TaobasTan moraluri pasuxismgebloba Cadenilis gamo, radgan am saqciels aucileblad miekvreba erovnuli interesebis Ralatis iarliyi.
