,,აგვისტოს ომი იყო რუსეთის გადამწყვეტი ნაბიჯი, შეეჩერებინა საქართველოს ნატოში ინტეგრაცია”
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omi rom 21-e saukuneSi anaqronizmia da gaumarTlebeli, amas amJamad ukrainaSi mimdinare movlenebic adasturebs da erTxel kidev cxadad warmoaCens, rom rusuli agresia aris ubedureba da Wiri, romelic adamianebis sicocxles spobs, anadgurebs damoukidebel qveyanas. . . bolo 6 Tve TvalnaTliv aCvenebs imasac, rom agresori saxelmwifosaTvis saqarTveloSi omis wamowyebisas, jer kidev 2008 wels, rom daewesebinaT sanqciebi, dRes msoflio arsebuli realobis winaSe ar iqneboda. Cven ki, qarTvelebs, agvistos omi, ToTxmeti wlis Semdegac mraval kiTxvas gvirCens da gvafiqrebs. warsulis marTebulad gaanalizeba gvmarTebs, rom dRevandel realobaSi adekvaturebi viyoT da arsebul gamowvevebs gavumklav-deT. politologi gela iremaZe amasTan dakavSirebiT Tavis Tvalsazriss gviziarebs.
– 14 weli sruldeba 2008 wlis agvistos omidan. rogorc vici, Tqven im dros rezervisti iyaviT. rezervis samsaxuri maSin ramdenad gamarTuli iyo?
– samwuxarod, rezervis samsaxuri xelisuflebam ver miiyvana srulyofilebamde, rasac Tavisi subieqturi da obieqturi mizezebi gaaCnia. axla amis ganxilvas ar daviwyeb. . . rac Seexeba 2008 wlis agvistos oms, es saqarTvelos uaxles istoriaSi yvelaze mZime periodi iyo. am 14 wlis ganmavlobaSi ruseTma araerTi valdebuleba saqarTvelosTan dakavSirebiT (sarkozi-medvedevi-saakaSvilis xelmowerili SeTanxmeba), ugulebelyo, amas emateba mcocavi okupacia, rac saerTaSoriso samarTlis principebis sruli darRvevaa.
– samxedro eqspertebis mosazrebiT, swored qarTuli jaris damsaxurebaa, rom qarTuli saxelmwifo gadarCa. . .
– udavod Cveni SeiaraRebuli Zalebis damsaxurebaa is simamace, rac maT gamoavlines agvistos omSi ruseTis jarTan brZolisas. amas TviT rusi generlebis interviuebi da moxsenebebi amtkicebs. mokled, samxedro momzadebis kuTxiT Cvenma SeiaraRebulma Zalebma maqsimumi SeZles, magram isic unda iTqvas, rom am omSi saqarTvelos ar hqonda is SesaZleblobebi, romelic miscemda saSualebas, ekontrolebina sahaero sivrce. . . swored sahaero sivrcis kontrolis saSualebiT SeZlo ruseTma cxinvalis regionis okupacia.
– rogorc maSin, axlac ismis kiTxva: SeiZleboda Tu ara am omis Tavidan acileba?
– saerTod, nebismieri SeiaraRebuli konfliqtis Tavidan acileba SeiZleba, Tu orive mxarea amiT dainteresebuli. ruseTma arCevani omze gaakeTa, rac dakavSirebulia Cveni qveynis sagareo politikur orientaciasTan. ruseTi am omisTvis karga xani emzadeboda, vgulisxmob sainJinro xazis mSeneblobas, romelic 1993 wlis Semdeg mitovebuli iyo. aq isic unda gaviTvaliswinoT, rom Tuki ruseTi apirebda samxedro operaciis Catarebas saqarTveloSi, es aucileblad 2008 wels unda momxdariyo, amis mizezi saqarTvelosTvis map-is miniWebis perspeqtiva iyo. . . ar veTanxmebi im mosazrebas, rom wina xelisuflebam daiwyo omi, maT moaxdines konfliqtis eskalacia da a. S. ruseTis agresia iyo 2008 wels, 90-ian wlebSic da manamdec.
– 2008 wlis dasawyisSi saqarTvelosTvis map-i rom mieRoT, am agresias avcdebodiT?
– saintereso kiTxvaa. map-i ar mogveniWa Cveni megobari saxelmwifoebis `daxmarebiT~, vfiqrob, 2008 wlis aprilSi saqarTvelosTvis map-i rom miecaT, am omis Tavidan acileba SesaZlebeli iqneboda. amis Tqmis saSualebas maZlevs swored omis Semdeg, maSindeli prezidentis medvedevis satelevizio aRiareba, romelmac pirdapir Tqva: `agvitos omis mizezi iyo is, rom saqarTvelos natoSi integracia ar momxdariyo~. aqedan gamomdinare, 2008 wlis omi iyo ruseTis gadamwyveti nabiji, SeeCerebina natoSi saqarTvelos integracia da asec moxda. Cven davisajeT Cveni dasavluri kursis gamo.
– bevri dasavleli analitikosis gancxadebiT, 2008 wels dasavleTi ufro principuli rom yofiliyo ruseTis mimarT, axla msoflio ukrainis tragediis momswre ar iqneboda. . .
– aSS-is pozicia 2008 wlis omis dros calmxrivad Seuvali iyo, magaliTad, kondoliza raisma mkafiod miuTiTa ruseTs, rom unda Seewyvita omi saqarTvelosTan, ar daerRvia misi suvereniteti. gavixsenoT, Tu ra uTxra lavrovma aSS-is saxelmwifo mdivans (kondoliza raiss) agvistos omis mizanTan dakavSirebiT – arsebuli xelisuflebis damxoba. 11 agvistos ukve rusuli satanko SenaerTebi Tbilisisken daZvras apirebdnen, Tumca aSS-is mtkice poziciis gaTvaliswinebiT, ruseTma ukan daixia, amas davumatoT xuTi evropeli prezidentis Camosvla TbilisSi, rac mravlismTqmeli iyo. maT myarad dauWires mxari Cvens qveyanas da mis suverenitets.
– sxvaTa Soris, im dros rusuli propaganda msoflios motyuebas cdilobda qarTuli jaris `araadamianuri~ qmedebebis Sesaxeb informaciis gavrcelebiT. . .
– ruseTis umTavresi iaraRi propaganda da mosaxleobis zombirebaa. maTi mtkiceba, rom saqarTvelo aris agresori, romelmac mZinare cxinvali dabomba, sruli absurdia. dRes saerTaSoriso arenaze yvelam icis, rom ruseTi aris agresori, okupanti da am saxelmwifom 2008 wels ganaxorciela saqarTvelos teritoriebis okupacia. kargi iqneboda, igive 90-ian wlebSi saqarTvelos xelisuflebas meti mtkicebulebebi gaesajarovebina ruseTis danaSaulebze afxazeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi. am mxriv saqarTvelom araerTxel mougo saerTaSoriso arenaze ruseTs, igive haagis sasamarTloSi agvistos omTan dakavSirebiT.
– amerikisgan gansxvavebiT, evropis pozicia rogor gamoiyureboda omamde da omis Semdeg ruseTTan mimarTebiT?
– evropelebi ufro frTxilni arian da cdiloben, Ria konfrontaciaSi ar Sevidnen ruseTTan, Tumca axla mixvdnen, rom rac maT Caidines (anu SiSis, ekonomikuri faqtorebidan gamomdinare, romelic amoZravebdaT ruseTTan mimarTebiT), iyo Secdoma. imTaviTve rom daewesebinaT ruseTisTvis mZlavri ekonomikuri sanqciebi, axla msoflio ukrainis tragediis momswre ar iqneboda. Tu mas amjeradac SerCa ukrainisadmi agresia, Semdgomi baltiispireTis respublikebi iqnebian. dasavleTi gamofxizlda, amitomac amoqmedda ekonomikuri sanqciebi, ramac Sedegi nawilobriv gamoiRo – ruseTis ekonomika arasaxarbielo mdgomareobaSia, rasac Tavad rusi eqspertebic ver uaryofen.
– am bolo dros, samwuxarod, dasavleTSic gamoCndnen politikosebi, romlebic fiqroben, rom ruseTTan SeiZleba SeTanxmeba. ras fiqrobT?
– ruseTis ndoba ar SeiZleba, yvelafers unda daerqvas Tavisi saxeli. putini aris sisxlismsmeli, tirani, diqtatori, romelmac 21-e saukuneSi mezobel saxelmwifoebs mouwyo agresia, eTnowmenda, ekonomikuri embargo da mas sakuTari persona da qveyana ufskrulisken mihyavs.
– imxanad ruseTis mizani mxolod afxazeTis da cxinvalis regionis okupacia iyo, Tu kremls sxva amocana hqonda dasaxuli?
– im periodSi winapirobebi iyo igive samcxe-javaxeTSi. ruseTidan marTuli politikuri elita imuqreboda da faqtobrivad Riad saubrobdnen, rom saqarTvelosgan SesaZlebelia darCes mxolod Tbilisi da ramdenime regioni. maTi ambicia Zalian maRali iyo da rom ara dasavleTis mxardaWera da Cveni jaris Tavdadeba, ruseTi SeZlebda xelisuflebis damxobas da qveynis martiv mamravlebad daSlas.
– omis meeqvse Tvem ra aCvena ukrainaSi?
– am oms Seewira aTiaTasobiT moqalaqe, daaxloebiT xuTma milionma adamianma datova samSoblo, aRarafers vambob daWrilebsa da ganadgurebul infrastruqturaze. ukraina umklavdeba ruseTs, rac ara marto ukrainis jaris damsaxurebaa, aramed msoflio Tanamegobrobis mxardaWeris Sedegic. ruseTma pasuxi unda agos Cadenil danaSaulze. Tu ukrainas saTanado SeiaraReba da aseve, dasavleTis upirobo daxmareba eqneba, didi albaTobiT SeZlebs suverenitetis dacvas da samomavlod okupirebuli teritoriebis deokupaciasac.
– amerikeli gadamdgari samxedro generali ben hojesi acxadebs, rom ruseTi ukrainaSi damarcxdeba, Sedegad ki ramdenime weliwadSi daiSleba. . .
– visurvebdi am generlis gancxadebis praqtikul cxovrebaSi ganviTarebas, magram jerjerobiT omis bedi ar aris gadawyvetili. Aamis miuxedavad, miTi imis Sesaxeb, rom ruseTi aris uZlieresi saxelmwifo, daimsxvra. vfiqrob, TiToeuli ukraineli jariskaci, romelic daeca ukrainisTvis, gmiria, maTi sisxli ar SerCeba arcerT okupants.
– dabolos, Cvenma qveyanam ra unda moimoqmedos imisTvis, rom ruseTis xelaxali agresiis msxverpli ar aRmovCndeT da dasavleTma ra unda gaakeTos am mxriv?
– dasavleTs bevris gakeTeba SeuZlia, magaliTad, Tu daaCqarebs Cveni qveynis natoSi integracias, maSin ruseTidan safrTxeebi acilebuli iqneba, Tumca jerjerobiT aseTi realoba ar ikveTeba. verc Cveni qveyana akmayofilebs natos standartebs. rac Seexeba Sida politikas: xelisuflebam da opoziciam kompromiss unda miaRwion qveynisTvis mniSvnelovan sakiTxebze, aseve, ar unda dauSvan sazogadoebis gaxleCa `imistebad~ da `amistebad~, sxvagvarad rom vTqvaT, unda imoqmedon saxelmwifoebrivi interesebidan gamomdinare. Cven windaxeduleba gvmarTebs, rom ar SevexoT im wiTel xazebs, romelsac SeuZlia kidev ufro gaauaresos Cveni realoba, Tumca, amave dros, sakuTari interesebis gaTvaliswinebiT da dasavleTis xelSewyobiT unda mivaRwioT okupirebuli teritoriebis deokupacias. mkiTxveli ikiTxavs – rogor moxdeba es? rogorc ki ruseTi ver SeZlebs saokupacio Zalebis Senaxvas afxazeTsa da cxinvalis regionSi, maTi damoukideblobisgan araferi darCeba.
