მურად მთვარელიძე: პატარა ერებს სულ სჭირდებათ სულიერი წინამძღოლი
ლაშა ხომერიკი 593 50 82 69 –
murad mTvareliZe – cnobili literaturismcodne da saintereso mwerali mxolod Tavisi profesiuli saqmianobiT rodi ipyrobs yuradRebas, is araerTi, amJamad saxelganTqmuli mwerlis gzis gamkvalavi da aRmzrdelia: cira barbaqaZe, eka baqraZe, giorgi lobJaniZe, TaTia mTvareliZe da kidev araerTi kalmosani misi xeldasmulia. talantebis Ziebas da gzis gakvalvas Tavis misiad miiCnevs, rasac axlac mTeli guliT, siyvaruliT asrulebs. CvenTvis sagulisxmoa isic, rom mas baTumTan mravali Tbili mogoneba akavSirebs, es interviuc swored amis gamoZaxilia. maS ase, dRes gazeT `aWaris~ stumaria batoni murad mTvareliZe.
– Tqven kargad gicnobT literaturuli samyaro, modiT, Cveni gazeTis mkiTxvelebs, Tavad warudgineT Tavi.
– yvelaze rTuli mainc sakuTari Tavis wardgenaa. davibade da vcxovrob xaSurSi. mama-papis kera sofeli xcisia, sadac saxli maqvs da vcdilob, iqaurobas yuradReba ar movaklo, miT ufro, rom xcisi Cemi deduleTicaa. dedaCemis winaprebi, lobJaniZeebi, aq raWidan Camosaxlebulan da soflis TavSi damkvidrebulan. mamaCemis winaprebi ki soflis SesasvlelSi saxlobdnen. ase rom, soflis bolodan Tavamde yvela adgili CemTvis mSobliuria, iqve gvaqvs Cveni saZvale. literaturis siyvaruli skolidanve momdevs da amaSi didi wvlili Cemi qarTulis maswavlebels, SesaniSnav meqarTules platon gudaZes miuZRvis. Semdeg iyo goris pedagogiur ins-titutSi swavlis wlebi. qarTuli literaturis kaTedras profesori daviT TevzaZe xelmZRvanelobda, romelmac sruliad uangarod didi mzrunveloba gamiwia da manve gansazRvra kidevac Cemi momavali saqmianoba. sxvadasxva dros vmuSaobdi xaSuris raionis sofel osiauris saSualo skolaSi maswavleblad, skolebis direqtorad q. xaSurSi, ganaTlebis ganyofilebis gamged, goris maswavlebelTa daxelovnebis regionaluri institutis qarTuli literaturis kaTedris gamged. amJamad vmuSaob xaSuris samuzeumo gaerTianebaSi, mmarTvelis moadgiled samecniero muSaobis dargSi, amave dros var goris saxelmwifo universitetis sruli profesori.
– mravali wignis avtori xarT, romels gamoarCevdiT?
– roca mwerali romelime wignze iwyebs muSaobas, is misTvis gamorCeuli xdeba. ufro metic, am dros sul maviwydeba Tu sxva wignebis avtoric var da iseTi gancda maqvs, TiTqos pirvelad viwyebde wignis weras da raki wignebic avtorisaTvis SvilebiviTaa, pirveli Svilis dabadebiT gamowveuli sixaruli rasac niSnavs, sayovelTaod cnobilia. Tumca, rasakvirvelia, mainc SemiZlia gamovarCio, oRond erTis nacvlad sami: poeturi krebuli `mesame napiri~, Tundac imitom, rom mas Cemi Svilis – TaTias winasityvaoba erTvis, literaturuli zRapari `meigave~ da erT-erTi bolo namuSevari `kaci xasiaTisa – dimitri yifiani~.
– literaturismcodnis poziciidan ras fiqrobT dRevandel qarTul mwerlobaze?
– me Zveli qarTuli literaturis mkvlevari var, Tumca es ar niSnavs imas, rom Tanamedrove mwerlebis nawarmoebebs ar vkiTxulob. ramdenadac amis saSualeba maqvs, vecnobi Tanamedrove prozisa Tu poeziis nimuSebs. raki ufro met pativs vcem tradiciul leqss, bunebrivia, am mxrivac prioritets vaniWeb im avtorebs, vinc ZiriTadad, am saxis nawarmoebebs qmnis. zogadad, mimaCnia, rom literaturas yvelaze metad moeTxoveba zomiereba, visurvebdi axalgazrda avtorebs swored es gaeTvaliswinebinoT.
– Tqven mraval axalgazrda Semoqmeds gaukvaleT gza…
– osiauris skolaSi rom daviwye muSaoba sruliad axalgazrda viyavi da iq mexuTe klasSi damxvda erTi bejiTi gogona grZeli nawnavebiT da meocnebe TvalebiT, romelsac, rogorc TviTon ambobs-xolme, xeli magrad Cavkide da SemoqmedebiT gzaze gaviyvane. es gogona dRes yvelasaTvis kargad cnobili poeti da enaTmecnieri, profesori cira barbaqaZea, romelsac bevri ram akavSirebs baTumTan. 2010 wels ciram baTumis SoTa rusTavelis saxelobis universitetSi Zalian maRali donis samecniero konferencia Caatara semiotikis sferoSi. sxvaTa Soris, im konferenciis muSaobaSi mec vmonawileobdi aseTi TemiT `cisferyanwelTa zRva~. mere iyo erTgvari legenda – saxelad eka baqraZe. bedma marguna ekas SemoqmedebisTvis Tvali medevnebina 5 wlis asakidan. 10 wlis rom gaxda, xaSuris raionul gazeTSi misi leqsebi davbeWde, Cemi winasityvaoba davurTe, romlis saTaurad misive leqsis striqoni gamoviyene `sityvebi misi CanCqerebia~ da arasodes damaviwydeba is sixaruli, rasac im dRes ekas Tvalebi ireklavda. mere es leqsebi paata nacvliSvils CavutaneT, romelic imxanad `axalgazrda komunists~ redaqtorobda da paatam erTgvari gamocdis Catarebis Semdeg, ekas rom mouwyo, leqsebi qarTvel mkiTxvels warudgina da es imdroindel literaturul samyaroSi namdvili afeTqeba iyo. mTeli saqarTvelo maSin am patara talantze saubrobda, yvela kuTxidan cdilobdnen, Camosuliyvnen da sakuTari TvaliT enaxaT. ar damaviwydeba erTi aseTi Sexvedra ekas bebia-babuis saxlSi, roca mas baTumeli moswavleebi da studentebi estumrnen. am Sexvedris iniciatori iyo batoni iuri bibileiSvili, romelTanac ekac da mec Semdeg davmegobrdiT. aseve gaaoca Tavis droze saqarTvelo literaturaSi Wabuki giorgi lobJaniZis Semosvlam. giorgi Cemi naTesavicaa. Cveni papebi biZaSvilebi iyvnen. misma mamam, Zia ilom, swored me `momZebna~ da mTxova, gavcnobodi misi biWis leqsebs da Tu imsaxurebda, misTvisac gamewia megzuroba literaturis did gzaze gasayvanad. wavikiTxe giorgis leqsebi da maSinve gadavwyvite, isic paata nacvliSvilisTvis gamecno. literaturis moyvarulTaTvis cnobilia, rogori didi wardgineba mouwyo paatam igive gazeTis furclebze da rogor Seiyvara giorgi lobJaniZe qarTvelma mkiTxvelma. ufro mniSvnelovani ki is aris, rom dRes Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetis profesori, cnobili aRmosavleTmcodne giorgi lobJaniZe Cveni mwerlobisa da mTargmnelobiTi xelovnebis pirvelxarisxovani ostatia. meoTxe ukve Cemi Svili TaTiaa, romelic am garemoSi izrdeboda da aravis gakvirvebia, rom ena leqsebiT amoidga. dRes TaTiac sakmaod cnobili poeti, berZnuli literaturis mTargmneli da araerTi premiis laureatia. mere iyo kidev erTi Zalian niWieri gogona maia wiqariSvili. is im skolaSi swavlobda, romelsac bolos vxelmZRvanelobdi. maias Zalian uyvarda Tavisi skolis direqtori da Cemi skolidan wamosvlis Semdeg sistematurad miwyobda patar-patara dResaswaulebs – es SeiZleba yofiliyo manqanis saqare minaze mikruli baraTebi, an albomebi, rac me meZRvneboda, an sulac Cemdami moZRvnili wigni, romelic imdenad moulodneli iyo, rom Cems gaocebas sazRvari ar hqonda. mere did megobrebad viqeciT. maia ukve karga xania beWdavs Tavis saintereso leqsebs literaturul periodikaSi. is axla Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetis magistrantia da win Zalian saintereso gegmebi gvaqvs, rogorc wminda literaturuli, ise sakvlevaZiebo saqmianobis TvalsazrisiTac. ai, axla bedma kidev erT talants Semaxvedra. am erTi Tvis win CemTan moiyvanes axalgazrda xaSureli kaci aleqsandre kakiaSvili, romlis nawerebma udidesi STabeWdileba moaxdina da maSinve SevarCie ramdenime prozauli teqsti, romelic Cemi rCeviT, man `literaturuli gazeTis~ redaqtors irakli javaxaZes gaugzavna. xuTive novela moiwones da 5 agvistos nomerSi TiTqmis sami gverdi daeTmo am niWieri axalgazrdis nawarmoebebs. axla swored leqsos SemoqmedebiT var dakavebuli da garkveuli gegmebic maqvs misi popularizaciisaTvis, radgan mimaCnia, rom es aris Zalian niWieri da gansxvavebuli xelweris mqone Semoqmedi. iyvnen sxvebic, vTqvaT skolis TanamSromlebi, moswavleebi, an sulac ucnobebi, romlebic TavianT nawerebs makiTxebdnen da mec vcdilobdi, maTTvis xeli Semewyo, daostatebaSi davxmarebodi. ramdenime maTgani dRes ukve araerTi wignis avtoria.
– mkiTxvels samomavlod ras hpirdebiT?
– sakmaod bevri gegma maqvs. amjerad gamoicema Cemi ori wigni – erTi samecniero-popularulia da Sida qarTlSi, me-19 saukuneSi mcxovreb xuT tradiciul ojaxs eZRvneba, meore dokumenturi prozaa saxelwodebiT `grafinia zarnikau~, romelSic sami magistraluri xazi viTardeba: agrafina jafariZisa da misi meuRlis konstantine oldenburgis, giorgi romanovisa da nakaSiZis asulis da andrei tolstoisa da gurielis asulis istoriebi. am wignebs goris saxelmwifo universitetis gamomcemloba gamoscems, risTvisac didad madlobeli var. dasrulebuli maqvs wigni `wamebuli akaki~, romelic am didi mwerlis realur cxovrebas gvixatavs. saintereso gamomivida arcTu vrceli romani `koronADAADA~, mzadaa sakmaod moculobiTi samecniero naSromebi: `vefxistyaosani qarTveli eris yofa-cxovrebaSi~ da `Zvel qarTul mwerlobaSi moxseniebul pirTa analitikuri leqsikoni~, aseve, avtobiografiuli romani. Semodgomaze gamomcemloba `Semecneba~ gamoscems Cems sam sabavSvo wigns.
– dRevandel viTarebaSi rogor xedavT mwerlis rolsa da daniSnulebas?
– balzaks aqvs aseTi gamonaTqvami: `Tavisi drois zneobis gaumjobeseba – ai, mizani, romliskenac unda iswrafodes yoveli mwerali, Tu ar surs mxolod `xalxis gamrTobi~ iyos~. mesmis, rom dro icvleba da icvleba Sexedulebanic, magram iseTi didi istoriis mqone patara erebs, rogoric Cven varT, sul sWirdeba sulieri winamZRoli da marTlmadideblobasTan erTad, am misiis Semsrulebeli mwerlobacaa. merve saukuneSi swored qarTvelma mweralma iovane sabanisZem Semohkra gangaSis zars da miZinebul qarTvelobas sakuTari ubedureba TvalnaTliv daanaxa. meaTe saukuneSi giorgi merCulem mianiSna qarTvelobas, rom mSobliuri enis gaZlierebiT unda dawyebuliyo saqarTvelos gaerTianeba, `vefxistyaosnis~ sibrZne saukuneebi asazrdoebda qarTvel ers gaWirvebisa Tu dalxinebis Jams, me-19 saukuneSi iliam da misma Taobam aseve Rrma Zilidan gamoiyvana qarTveli eri da sazogadoebas erovnuli sulisa da cnobierebis dabrunebisaken dawyebul moZraobaSi win gauZRva. sabWoTa periodSic, miuxedavad wnexisa da ideurobisa, qarTveli mwerali kvlav rCeboda eris sulierebis medroSed. dRes es yvelaferi TiTqmis dakargulia. qarTveli mwerlebis `elitaruli nawilisaTvis~ umTavresi aRar aris erovnuli cnobiereba, ufro metic, patriotizmi poeziaSi iqca erTgvar qilikis sagnad da Tu mainc arian mwerlebi, romlebic am gzas ar Ralatoben, isini CrdilSi arian moqceulni. rasakvirvelia, ar vgulisxmob, rom literatura ar unda iyos zogadkacobriuli, es sxva sakiTxia da Cven araerTi qarTveli mwerali gvyavs, romlebmac sakuTari Semoqmedeba am simaRlemde aiyvanes, magram maT arasodes uRalatiaT erovnuli faseulobebisa da tradiciebisaTvis, ris gegmazomieri msxvreva dRes ase TvalSi sacemia.
– teqnikuri progresi Seucnoblis kars aRebs da gadawyoba, anu gadatvirTva rom SevZloT, ra dagvexmareba?
– gadatvirTva yvela Taobis adamians sWirdeba, es erTgvari ganaxlebaa, axali ideebisa da cnobierebis, progresis damkvidrebaa sakuTar TavSi. es ar aris ioli saqme, magram garkveul etapze adamianebi amas axerxeben- xolme, oRond, kidev vimeoreb, es gadatvirTva ar unda efuZnebodes Zvelis uaryofas, axals unda SevunivToT ukve arsebuli, uari vTqvaT iseT tradiciebze, rac xels uSlis sazogadoebis ganviTarebas, magram es yvelaferi CvenTvis, qarTvelebisaTvis unda efuZnebodes marTlmadideblobas da tradiciebs.
– axal teqnogaremoSi cxovreba axal wes-Cveulebebs amkvidrebs. . . tradiciebi icvleba, romeli tradicia unda SevinarCunoT da romeli ukuvagdoT, gansakuTrebiT rom aferxebs Cvens ganviTarebas, mentalurad gvzRudavs?
– gvaqvs iseTi tradiciebi, romelzedac uari unda vTqvaT. SedarebiT mcirea, magram kidev ufro mniSvnelovnad mimaCnia, daviwyebas ar mivceT Rirebuli tradiciebi, romlebic bolo aTwleulebSi namdvilad miviwyebis gzazea. es ufro farTo diskusiis Temaa da dakonkreteba am SemTxvevaSi saWirod ar mimaCnia.
– `ara puriTa erTiTa cxondebis kaci~. . . xom?!
– rasakvirvelia, esaa sibrZne, romliTac Cven aqamde movediT. esaa gzac, romelzedac Cveni winaprebi dadiodnen. akakis aqvs aseTi striqonebi: `Tu ideali mwerlisa mxolod puri da groSia, ra aris, Tu ar wupaki purisTvis myefi goSia~. gulsatkeni ki isaa, rom dRes umravlesoba ase ar fiqrobs. gansakuTrebiT rTuli bolo wlebSi aRmoCnda, roca veRarc skola da veRarc sazogadoeba axerxebs axalgazrdebis aRzrdaSi mniSvnelovani wvlilis Setanas. dRes, samwuxarod, materialuri bevrad sjabnis suliers, Sesabamisad, faseulobebic iseTi miviReT, rom Tu ase gagrZelda, Cveni, rogorc TviTmyofadi eris sakiTxi didi safrTxis winaSe aRmoCndeba. erT leqsSi vwerdi:
gvyavdnen mefeni,
metic, gvyavdnen mefeT-mefeni,
vcxovrobdiT ise,
ZvelTaZvel ers rogorc
Sehferis.
dRes xelgawvdili
vakakunebT viRacis karze,
karsac ar giRebs is, viszedac
meti xar asjer.
da es qveyana –
mocaxcaxe lerwamis Reri,
mkerdgaglejili wevs da mainc
sxvis hangze mReris,
me ki ianvris RamesaviT
mklavs es fiqrebi:
dRes kidev ha da
xval netavi, vinRa viqnebiT?
ai, es kiTxva unda gvawuxebdes yvelas da dReniadag vcdilobdeT am saSiSroebis Tavidan acilebas.
– wagvleka uwmawuri sityvebis koriantelma, ra gvWirs? arada, Tu lamazad, gulianad vilaparakebT, xom sicocxles gavixangrZlivebT. . . .
– yvelaze cud rols televizia asrulebs. eTeridan mozards rom esmis bilwi saubari, gaumarTavi frazebi, amerikuli aqcentiT mosaubre myvirala telewamyvanebi, roca ymawvili Tanamedrove romanebsa da leqsebSi xvdeba iseT sityvebs, gamoTqmebs, pasaJebs, scenebs, mTel epizodebs, romlebic sruliad SesaZlebelia sxvagvarad Tqmuliyo, roca Cveulebriv metyvelebaSi ukve TiTqmis damkvidrda es sityvebi, maTTvis es `uwmawuri sityvebi~ sruliadac aRaraa `uwmawuri~. vfiqrob, ukve Zalian Znelia am situaciidan Tavis daRweva. me, cxadia, am sityvebis motrfiale mwerlebs mwerlobasa da niWs ar vuwuneb, CemTvis miuRebelia gamosaxvis is forma, romliTac erTi nawili ase aris gatacebuli, magram, simarTle rom vTqva, gzasac veRar vxedav amisgan Tavis dasaxsnelad. albaT, Sinagani cenzori yvela adamianSi da miT umetes mweralSi unda arsebobdes.
– jer kidev ver viswavleT bunebis wignis wakiTxva. . .
– cnobil somex mweralsa da filosofos miqael nalbandians aqvs aseTi gamonaTqvami: `buneba wignia, romelic unda wavikiTxoT da sworad gavigoT~, Cven ki jer kidev ver viswavleT misi wakiTxva, Tumca uamrav wigns vkiTxulobT. . . arada, im uamrav wigns Soris mTavari swored bunebis wignis kiTxvaa, romelsac ase udierad vepyrobiT. es kiTxva imdenad mniSvnelovnad mimaCnia, miWirs ramdenime sityvaSi Cavatio Cemi azri. . . mxolod imas vityvi, rom Tu umTavres miznad ar davisaxeT Svilebsa da SviliSvilebs Tavdapirvelad am wignis kiTxva SevayvaroT, male kidev ufro uares Sedegebs miviRebT, radgan, rogorc didi germaneli mwerali goeTe werda: `buneba aris erTaderTi wigni, romlis yoveli furceli did Sinaarss gvTavazobs~. metismeti citireba ar minda gamomivides, magram Cvenma geniosma vaJa-fSavelam Tavis droze Segvagona: `rac unda ganviTarebis umaRles mwvervals miaRwios kacobriobam, mainc masSi unda Candes isev buneba saerTod. . . Cven bunebaSi varT – igi CvenSia, saiT, rogor SegviZlian igi TviTon aviSoroT, mas gaveqceT, davemalneT?! cocxalnic misni varT, mkvdarnic~.
– Cveni yvela krizisi ganaTlebis krizisis gamoZaxilia, Sedegi – ganuviTarebeli qveyana. . . Tqven rom ganaTlebis ministri iyoT, ra cvlilebebs da siaxleebs SesTavazebdiT sazogadoebas?
– dRes xSirad gaigonebT, rom ganaTlebis sistema Sesacvlelia, rom Tanamedrove skola aRar iZleva codnas da es simarTlesTan Zalian axlosaa. bavSvebs meore klasidan sWirdebaT repetitorebi, radgan skolaSi srulyofil ganaTlebas ver iReben. maRal klasebze aRarafers vambob. vsvam aseT kiTxvas: Tuki moswavleTa 80 procentze meti iZulebulia, damatebiTi gakveTilebi kerZo maswavleblebisagan miiRos, raRas akeTebs dRevandeli skola? mimaCnia, rom TviT `sajaro skolis~ statusi aris gadasaxedi. skolam dakarga is funqcia, rac mas sazogadoebis TvalSi avtoritets sZenda. rac exeba umaRles ganaTlebas, aq saqme namdvilad ukeTesad aris, umaRlesi skolis dRevandeli modeli namdvilad misaRebi da mravalmxriv sainteresoa, saskolo ganaTleba ki, vfiqrob, namdvilad gadasaxedi da gasaumjobesebelia.
– baTumi da Tqven. . . rogor gagondebaT aqauroba da momavalSi rogor warmogidgeniaT?
– baTumi gansakuTrebulad maxsovs Cemi studentobis periodidan, roca samecniero konferenciebze CamovdiodiT maSindel pedagogiur institutSi. arasdros damaviwydeba pirveli aseTi konferencia. qarTuli literaturis seqcias profesori neli dumbaZe xelmZRvanelobda. am qalbatonma imTaviTve miipyro Cemi yuradReba garegnobiT, Cacmis kulturiT, metyvelebiT. axlac vinaxav wigns, romelic maSin maCuqa – `ymawvilkacobis furclebi~ lado asaTianisa da misi Tanakurseli megobrebis axalgazrdobis wlebs acocxlebs da CemTvis dRemde sayvareli wignia. im periodSive gavecani maSin Wabuki vaxtang Rlontis poezias, ramac imTaviTve momxibla. aseve ar damaviwydeba, rogori STabeWdileba moaxdina Cemze daviT TedoraZis poeziam, romelzec patara werili gamovaqveyne gazeT `wignis samyaroSi~. baTumSi bevri megobari myavda studentobis dros, maTgan orTan dRemde axlo megobruli da kolegialuri urTierToba maqvs, eseni arian cnobili mecnierebi, baTumis universitetis profesorebi Sorena maxaWaZe da mamia faRava. baTumSi batoni aslan abaSiZis uSualo miTiTebiT daibeWda maSin Cemi mesameklaseli Svilis – TaTias leqsebis wigni, romlis TiTqmis mTeli tiraJi, bevr saCuqarTan erTad, gamougzavna Cems gogonas da araerTgzis gagvaxara. axla, amdeni wlis Semdeg, minda mas didi madloba gadavuxado im didi yuradRebisaTvis, romelsac TaTias mimarT iCenda. aseve naTel mogonebad damrCa Sexvedra baton zurab gorgilaZesTan aq, Cems qalaqSi, Cveni saerTo axloblis ojaxSi, sadac batonma zurabma Tavisi didi niWierebiTa da saocari leqsebiT im dRes yvelas didi bedniereba mogvaniWa. ase rom, baTumTan da baTumelebTan bevri kargi mogoneba makavSirebs…
– yvelaze arsebiTi da mTavari, rac gsurT uTxraT Tqvens mkiTxvelebs erTi winadadebiT.
– davrCeT adamianebad, viaroT winaparTa gziT da aseTive faseulobebiT gavzardoT Svilebi da SviliSvilebi.

