პოეზია უფალთან ურთიერთობის გზაა, როგორც ლოცვა
äïøï õëèåîòêò 593 50 82 69 –
salome gogolaZe warmatebuli mweralia, aRiarebuli poeti, prozaikosi, araerTi literaturuli konkursis gamarjvebuli. 2013 wlidan emigraciaSia, italiaSi cxovrobs. emigraciis Temaze mravali leqsi da moTxroba aqvs dawerili, romlebic yuradRebas ipyrobs da kritikosTa, mkiTxvelTa mowonebas imsaxurebs. dRes igi Cveni stumaria.
– gulwrfeli dialogi, rom Sedges, cxadia, gulwrfelni unda viyoT. TvliT Tu ara Tavs gulwrfel adamianad, ramdenad SesaZlebelia gulwrfeloba?
– sazogadoebis winaSe rom warsdgebi, rogorc Semoqmedi, ar gaqvs ufleba, aragulwrfeli iyo. maT xom Cems leqsebSi swored Cemi gulwrfeloba dainaxes, zogma sakuTari Tavi aRmoaCina. mwerali is adamiania, vinc sxvis saTqmelsac ambobs da rogor SemiZlia viyo yalbi, Tumca dRes imdenad mieCvivnen adamianebi erTmaneTis motyuebas, rom gulwrfeloba sisuleled iTvleba. es igivea, Sens saxlSi SemouSva ucnobi adamianebi da ar icode, ras moimoqmedeben isini. magram qristem gviTxra, rom ndoba yvelaze didi erTgulebaa. . . Tu ar vendeT, verc mivxvdebiT, vin rogoria.
– warmatebuli, aRiarebuli, mwerali xarT, araerTi konkursis gamarjvebuli, maTgan romels gamoarCevdiT da ratom?
– yvela konkursi TavisTavad mniSvnelovania. zogadad, mwerlisTvis aseTi gamowvevebi saWiroa, miT umetes, emigraciaSi myofi mwerlebisTvis, radganac mTlianad mowyvetilni varT qarTul realobas. me, piradad, iseT konkursebSi vmonawileobdi, rom did pasuxismgeblobas vgrZnobdi, amitom es gamarjvebebi Rirebulia. gansakuTrebiT gamovarCevdi konkursebs – revaz inaniSvilis saxelobis `erTi moTxroba~, da `quji – 2021~, sadac Cemma leqsma gaimarjva, agreTve, `xvarmzeobas~, sadac meore adgili davikave. konkursebi mwerlisTvis Zalian did rols asrulebs, Tumca yvelaze kargi Semfasebeli mainc sakuTari Tavia, romelsac verafers gamoapareb, pirvel rigSi, TviTrwmena unda hqondes mwerals da Semdeg TviTkritika. danarCeni droSi iwrToba. . .
– zogs Tqveni poezia moswons, zogsac proza. . . mkiTxvelis winaSea Tqveni gaxmaurebuli wignebi: `Tavisufleba samoTxis Citebs~ (poezia) da `mglis colis Canawerebi~ (proza), romelSi SeZeliT yvelaze ukeT Tqveni naazrevis xorcSesxma?
– mwerlad Camoyalibebas Zalian didi dro da energia sWirdeba. ver vityvi, rom am sami wigniT amovwure Cemi saTqmeli. isini erTmaneTisgan gansxvavdeba da yvela sxvadasxva dros, sxvadasxva Temas warmoaCens. bolos gamoica moTxrobebis krebuli `mglis colis Canawerebi~, romelic emigraciaSi yofnis periodSi Sevqmeni. aq Sesuli moTxrobebidan umetesoba emigraciis Temas exeba. swored aqedan gamomdinare, gamiCnda idea, emigraciis Tema scenazec gamecocxlebina. davwere piesa, romlis mixedviTac, araprofesionali msaxiobebis monawileobiT, davdgi speqtakli `Cemi miwa~, romelic italiaSi ixila qarTvelma mayurebelma da didi mowoneba daimsaxura. radganac es iyo albaT emigraciis istoriaSi erTaderTi speqtakli, romelic emigrantma dadga emigranti moyvaruli msaxiobebis monawileobiT. samwuxarod, am proeqts gagrZeleba ar hqonia, radganac pandemiam mogviswro da mxolod erTxel movaswariT scenaze gatana.
– Tqveni nawarmoebebi teqstebis wakiTxvamdec, araordinaruli saTaurebiTac ipyrobs yuradRebas, magaliTad, `TamaSi margalitebiT~, anda `angelozis dabadeba~. migaCniaT, rom saTauri teqstis ideuri Canafiqris niSani unda iyos? sainteresoa, rogor arqmevT maT saTaurebs?
– ra Tqma unda, saTauri unda pasuxobdes nawarmoebis Sinaarss, ise xom azri ar eqneboda. saTaurs didi mniSvneloba aqvs mkiTxvelisTvis. zogjer marto saTauri wagakiTxebs nawarmoebs. magaliTad, `angelozis dabadeba~ adamianis pirvel saxes gulisxmobs, Seuryvnelobas. Tavidan ucodvelni vibadebiT, Tu ar CavTvliT evas codvas, rac dabadebidan dahyveba yvelas. am saTaurSi sulis umwikvloba igulisxmeba, rac dro gadis, adamianis sulic icvlis saxes da codviT binZurdeba. swored, amazea es patara Canaxati `angelozis dabadeba~. jer nawarmoebs vwer xolme da mere saTaurs vargeb, yofila isec, rom ramdenjerme Semicvlia saTauri. saTauri koduri saxeliviTaa, romelic raRacaze miganiSnebs, magram pasuxs ar scems – es mkiTxvelma unda amoicnos, ra Tqva mweralma am saTauriT. magaliTad, `daarqvi Cemi saxeli~ – aseTi moTxroba maqvs, romelic maSinve iqcevs yuradRebas. . . TviTon gakiTxebs Tavs. finalSi ukve ikveTeba saTauris azric. mkiTxveli mihyveba moTxrobis qargas da nel-nela ixsneba nawarmoebis ideac.
– samyarosaTvis ufro didi tragediaa Tundac erTi poeturi sulis dakargva, vidre gamomSvidobeba Tundac mefeTa da politikosTa mTel dinastiebTano, es erTma Wkvianma kacma brZana . . . Tqven rogor ganavrcobdiT am azrs? ise, CvenSi (da ara marto aq) bunebis simdidreebi ufro daculia, vidre adamianis talanti, miT ufro poeturi.
– zogadad, samyaro ar cnobs adamianebs titulebis mixedviT. RmerTisTvis yvelani Tanasworni varT `mefec da paikic~, rogorc erT cnobil simReraSia, mTavari isaa, Cveni arsebobiT ra movutaneT samyaros, ukeTesobisaken SevcvaleT Tu piriqiT. SeiZleba erTma ubralo adamianma ufro bevri ram gaakeTos samyarosaTvis, vidre vinme mkacrma mbrZanebelma. adamianis daniSnuleba da misia sikeTis keTebaa, erTmaneTis daxmarebaa. ubralod, gaaCnia, ramdenad aqvs gaazrebuli TiToeul Cvengans Tavisi roli dedamiwaze. rac Seexeba poetis rols, dabadebidanve daaqvs Semoqmeds is niSa, rac ase ansxvavebs sxvaTagan. es erTi mxriv kargicaa da cudic. kargia, rom eziarebi uflis saidumloebebs, Seneuli wvdoma gaqvs samyarosTan da yvelaferSi xedav silamazes, romelic mogvca ufalma, magram cudia, rom xSirad Seni ar esmiT adamianebs da es gamorCeuloba martosuls gxdis. Semoqmedi martoa da amavdroulad am martosulobiTaa savse. Semoqmedi, sufTa sulia, romelic adamianobis valdebulebiT cxovrobs da Cveulebrivi yofiereba borkiliviT daaqvs.
– miaCniaT, rom religiuri adamiani maRalzneobrivia, Tumca Cvens realobaSi es ar Cans, ufro farisevloba ikveTeba. . .
– Cveulebrivi mokvdavisgan gansxvavebiT meti zneoba moeTxoveba. magram dRevandel maT moRvaweobas Tu gadavxedavT, umetesi maTgani Sors dgas am mowodebisagan. ra Tqma unda, aseTi moZRvari farisevelia. Tu kaci moatyua, ufals ver moatyuebs da ormagad moekiTxeba Tavisi cdomili cxovreba. imasac vityodi, rom moZRvari da mwerali Zalian hgvanan erTmaneTs TavianTi daniSnulebiT. orives adamianis sulis winamZRoloba evaleba, ra mimarTulebiTac waiyvanen, iqiT wahyveba, amitom aqvs udidesi Zala sityvas erSic da berSic.
– adamianebs silamaze moswonT, es lamazi buneba iqneba, lamazi adamiani Tu lamazi sagani. . . da ufrTxildeba mas, eTayvaneba kidec, mSvenierebis es gancda, roca suls moicavs, erTi nabiji gadadgmuli gvaqvs kacobriobis dacvisa da gadarCenisaken, ase ar aris?
– kiTxvis arsi Tu sworad gavige, Semoqmedi adamianis rolzea saubari. kacobriobis sulierebis Suquraa Semoqmedi, poeti iqneba es Tu mxatvari. samyaros ki gadaarCens zneoba da keTildReoba, rac ufro keTilgonieria adamiani, ufro axlosaa ufalTan, siyvarulTan. Tu romelime Semoqmedi uflis mier qmnil samyaros ver xedavs, ar ganadidebs, is maSin sapirispiros msaxuria, radganac yvelafers aqvs meore mxare – borotebas – sikeTe, sikvdils – sicocxle, dRes – Rame da ase Semdeg. Semoqmedi Suamavalia ufalsa da adamians Soris, am yvelafers ufali ganagebs – vis ra roli mianiWos.
– rogor reagirebT kritikaze, saerTod, ras fiqrobT literaturul kritikaze?
– umizno qebas profesionali adamianebis kritika mirCevnia. dRevandel qarTul saliteraturo sivrceSi namdvili kritikosi cotaa, kritikosoba advili ar aris, mwerali arcerTi leqsiT ar fasdeba. . .damwyebi mwerlebisTvis gansakuTrebuli mniSvneloba aqvs pirvel Sefasebas profesionalebis mxridan. kritikosi xels unda uwyobdes niWieri adamianis zrdas da ara – ganadgurebas. kritika basri xmaliviT ar unda iyos, is ufro darigebas unda hgavdes, rom dafiqrde da iswavlo.
– 2013 wlidan emigraciaSi xarT. rogoria is adgili, sadac Tqven cxovrobT da SromobT, aRwereT Tundac erTi dRe.
– emigraciis Temaze uamravi leqsi da moTxroba maqvs dawerili. es Tema imdenad mZime da mravalmxrivia, rom ase erTi sityviT ver gadmoscem. emigracia savsea monatrebiT, martoobis SegrZnebiT, SiSiT da gaucxoebiT. zustad es SegrZnebebi maqvs gadmocemuli Cems leqsSi `saxli~.
`es Cemi saxli ar aris, ara,
akldamisferi kedlebis miRma,
mitovebuli bavSviviT
vdgavar
da viwro dReebs, vixdi da
vicvam..~
imdenad mZime da nostalgiuria emigrantis yoveldRiuri cxovreba, rom am yvelafers emigrantis garda veravin mixvdeba. aqedan gamomdinare, sul vfiqrobdi, albaT imitom mxvda wilad aseTi bedi, rom Cems Tavze ganmecada emigrantebis tkivili, patara sixarulebi da samSoblosTan Sexvedris molodini, rom saTqmeli mqonoda Cemi mkiTxvelisaTvis. ulamazes da uWkvianes qarTvel qalebs ucxo qveyanaSi, damarxuli aqvT TavianTi Tavi, piradi cxovreba, da sul mcire yofniT sixarulisTvis. . . albaT, mova dro da emigrantebs saTanadod daafaseben.
– mTel msoflioSi Zireuli cvlilebebia. . . cifruli gadatvirTvis fazebi mtkivneulia, gonebriv da fsiqologiur gadawyobas moiTxovs, pandemiac da omic dagvatyda Tavs. . . am fonze sulieri wonasworobisa da sicocxlis dasacavad ra SeiZleba iRonos adamianma?
– swored am dros sWirdeba sulieri simtkice, didi goniereba da sakuTar TavSi CaRrmaveba. dRes kacobriobas mTeli Tavisi arsebobis manZilze yvelaze rTuli periodi udgas, amdeni ubedureba erTmaneTis miyolebiT Zalian arTulebs cxovrebas. amitom fsiqologiurad myari nervebis patroni unda iyo, rom gamosavali ipovo, gadarCe. vfiqrob, dRevandel periodSi mweralTa ricxvmac imitom imata, rom adamians saTqmeli daugrovda, imdenad marto darCa samyaroSi, rom sakuTar sulierebas mimarTa dasaxmareblad, megobrad leqsi da proza moiSvelia, rogorc erTgvari Terapia, rom dacliliyo saTqmelisagan. poezia ufalTan urTierTobis erTgvari gzaa, rogorc locva, zogma es sakuTar mowodebad aqcia. magaliTad, emigraciaSi uamravma adamianma daiwyo wera, yvela Sedevrs ver dawers, ra Tqma unda, magram bevrma maTganma didi gardatexa moaxdina sakuTar TavSi. . . Cvens droSi didi roli eniWeba mwerals, amitom Zalian frTxilad unda moeqces igi sakuTar qmnilebebs, leqsi iqneba Tu moTxroba, imitom rom mwerals adamianis sulTan aqvs uSualo Sexeba, mas samyaro aZlevs uflebas, rom winamZRolis misia SeiTavsos, gza aswavlos dabneulT da Tvali auxilos uimedod myofT.
– semiologTa azriT, samyaroSi yvelaferi niSania. risi niSania – adamiani?
– adamiani uflis mier Seqmnili umaRlesi gonia da is mxolod da mxolod RmerTis saxea. zogjer adamianma TviTonac ar icis Tavisi SesaZleblobebis zRvari, Tu ramxela uflebebi mogvaniWa Semoqmedma. TviT sityva `Semoqmedeba~ migvaniSnebs, rom yvela CvenganSia Cadebuli raRac RvTiuri saCuqari, rom Cven SegviZlia, arafridan SevqmnaT Sedevri. . . warmoidgineT, rasac Cven vxedavT, erT dros viRacis fiqris nayofia. ufalma mianiWa mas qmnadobis unari da amiT imsgavsa kidec miwisagan Seqmnili arseba.
– adamianis sulis upirveles mkurnalad ras miiCnevT?
– sulis mkurnali isev sulierebaa, rac modis sulieri sawyisebidan. sulis mkurnali xorcieli, fizikuri ar SeiZleba iyos. amitom sworad SerCeul sityvas, mkurnalis, Tvisebebi gaaCnia. arsebobs aseTi qarTuli gamoTqma `suli damiame~, anu iseTi ram miTxari, rom davmSvidde.
– erTma mweralma Tqva Tavis interviuSi, yvela mwerali ucxoplaneteliao. . . Tqven rogor fiqrobT? da Tu Tqvenc ucxoplaneteli xarT, ras gvetyodiT axla Cven, dedamiwelebs?
– ucxo planeteli SeiZleba viyo Cveulebrivi adamianisTvis, romelic ver xedavs da ar anaRvlebs is movlenebi, rac me mafiqrebs. . . dedamiwelebs vetyodi, rom yvela wvrilmanSi SeiZleba dainaxos silamaze. . . Tundac ubralo gamxmari xis totidan xelovans SeuZlia Sedevri Seqmnas. warmoidginon erTi wuTiT, rom ar arsebobdnen dedamiwaze xelovani adamianebi, ar iarsebebda poezia, mxatvroba, musika, cekva da a. S. ra mosawyeni iqneboda cxovreba, adamians marto imaze rom efiqra, Tu ra unda eWama, an rogor unda Semosiliyo. swored amaSia uflismieri sibrZne Cadebuli, da es niWi gangvasxvavebs sxva sulieri arsebebisgan. diax, xelovani adamiani imdenad gamoirCeva Tavisi samyaroTi sxvaTagan, Zalian rTulia Cawvde mis azrebs. 21-e saukuneSi xelovnebis da kerZod, literaturis roli ganusazRvrelia, veraferi Secvlis im sulier sazrdos, rac SeiZleba wignma misces adamians, rac ufro wignieria sazogadoeba, miT ufro ganviTarebulia qveyana zneobrivad da civilurad. amitom niWier adamianebs meti yuradReba da dafaseba sWirdeba. xelovanis roli dRes kacobriobis gadarCenac ki SeiZleba iyos, radganac sityvas winamZRolis misia akisria, dabneuli, SeSinebuli da martosuli adamianisTvis megobris funqciac aqvs. sityva ufalia, romelmac sibnelidan unda gamoiyvanos mokvdavi. mwerali axlos unda idges adamianis problemasTan, mas aqvs ufleba Jargoni, kilo, dialeqtic ki gamoiyenos, Tu amas moiTxovs nawarmoebis gmiri, magram misi ZiriTadi samwerlo ena sufTa qarTuli unda iyos.
– axla baTums da baTumelebs gadmogvxedeT, Tqveni siyvarulis romel ganedze gvigulebT?
– Zalian miyvars baTumi da baTumelebi. baTums Zalian xSirad vstumrobdi, zafxulobiT Tbilisis sicxes gamovurbodiT TqvenTan. baTums marTlac aqvs raRac iseTi idumali Zala, rom samudamod rCeba mexsierebaSi. Tavisi saocari silamaziT da stumarTmoyvare xalxiT, uZvelesi tradiciebiTa da aWarul dialeqtze Seqmnili folkloruli nimuSebiT, cekviT, simReriT, udidesi poetebiT: zurab gorgilaZiT, fridon xalvaSiT, axalgazrda poetebiT da mwerlebiT, romlebic did rols asruleben Tanamedrove mwerlobaSi. Zalian miyvars aWaruli dialeqti – saocari Zveli qarTuli sityvebiT mdidari leqsikiT. samomavlod, roca saqarTveloSi davbrundebi, aucileblad movivli saqarTvelos kuTxeebs, ufro metad moveferebi Cems ulamazes samSoblos.
– da bolos erTi Tqveni leqsi. . .
