,,სადაც კი ვიმუშავე, ყველგან იმ საქმეს ვაკეთებდი, რომელიც ძალიან მიყვარდა”
ოთარ ცინარიძე 599 85 21 14 –
naxevar saukuneze metia aWaris saxelovan qalTa pleadas qalbaton Cito omeraZis saxeli da saqme amSvenebs. igi dResac aqtiuri cxovrebiseuli poziciiT modis.
– qalbatono Cito, dro didebuli maswavlebelia, mas moergeT Tu dro moirgeT?
– geTanxmebiT, dro namdvilad didebuli maswavlebelia, dro adamianis cxovrebis istoriaa, Tanac iseTi, rom misgan, pasuxismgeblobis SemTxvevaSi, aucileblad bevrs miiReb da iswavli. iyo periodi – dros moverge, iyo periodi – drom momirgo.
– saxelis mosaxveWad didi Sroma da wlebia saWiro. dRemde rogor iareT?
– aravin Tqvas, didi Sromisa da mondomebis gareSe adamianma mizans miaRwios… uflis nebac gasaTvaliswinebelia. moswavleobisas (baTumis me-13 qarTuli saSualo skola davamTavre), swavlis garda, uamrav aqtivobaSi viyaviT CarTuli. Sromis fasic maSin viswavle. im periodisaTvis Cveni skola erT-erTi disciplinirebuli da samagaliTo gaxldaT. gvqonda qarTuli enisa da literaturis kabineti, romelsac Cveni klasis xelmZRvaneli da qarTuli enisa da literaturis maswavlebeli eTer futuriZe xelmZRvanelobda. man mogvca saSualeba, kabinetis mowyobaSi migveRo monawileoba. kargad maxsovs, kabinetis gaxsnas eswreboda aWaris ganaTlebis maSindeli ministri, gamoCenili sazogado moRvawe, batoni vaxtang wulukiZe. maxsovs didi SoTa rusTavelis dabadebis 800 wlisTavisadmi miZRvnili masStaburi RonisZieba qalaqis zRvispira bulvarSi, romelSic umetesad moswavleebi da studentoba monawileobda. es iyo 1966 weli. msgavsi rafinirebuli, daxvewili RonisZieba, saqarTvelos masStabiTac ki, bolo 50 wlis ganmavlobaSi ar Catarebula. im periodis saskolo ganaTlebis sistemas moswavleTa sxvadasxva wreSi gaerTianeba prioritetad hqonda. ase movxvdi kalaTburTisa da cekvis wreSi. cekvas SesaniSnavi qoreografebi israfil diasamiZe da guram bakuraZe maswavlidnen. saskolo cxovrebidan erTi mniSvnelovani momenti isic iyo, rom Sexvedrebi ewyoboda Cveni qalaqis saxelovan adamianebTan: mwerlebTan, poetebTan, mxatvrebTan, musikosebTan. me-5 klasidan mogveca SesaZlebloba, TiTqmis yovelkvireulad, uqme dReebSi, dilis speqtaklebs davswrebodiT, romelic specialurad moswavleTaTvis imarTeboda baTumis ilia WavWavaZis saxelobis saxelmwifo dramatul TeatrSi. aq veziare Teatralur kulturas. bedniereba mxvda wilad, rom Cveni Teatris scenaze vixile didi qarTveli msaxiobebi: iusuf kobalaZe, murad xinikaZe, akaki mgelaZe, Tamar sulxaniSvili, nunu TeTraZe, xasan megreliZe, nino sakandeliZe, manuCar ServaSiZe, amiran takiZe, levan Rlonti, niaz mesxiZe. aq gavecani Salva inasariZis, arCil CxartiSvilis, gizo Jordanias, guram abesaZis, gogi qavTaraZis Semoqmedebas. baTumis dramatulma Teatrma Semayvara qarTuli kultura da xelovneba. es grZeldeba axlac. saocari tradicia hqonda qalaqs – zafxulobiT baTums Tbilisis zaqaria faliaSvilis saxelobis operisa da baletis saxelmwifo akademiuri, marjaniSvilisa da rusTavelis saxelmwifo Teatrebis dasebi stumrobdnen. erTi Tvis ganmavlobaSi qalaqi gansakuTrebuli dResaswauliT cxovrobda. skolis damTavrebis Semdeg, zafxulSi, mamas vexmarebodi. 1970 wlis seqtemberSi baTumis meriidan gamoZaxeba miviRe. Catarda xelmZRvanel muSakTa Sexvedra axal kursdamTavrebulebTan. gamogvicxades, rom Tvis bolomde samsaxuri unda dagvewyo da vakansiebic SemogvTavazes. me baTumis mefrinveleobis fabrikaSi daviwye muSaoba, Semdeg xelvaCauris saavadmyofoSi sanitrad, statistikosad da. . . daiwyo Cemi SromiTi odi-sea. . .
– iyo regionis axalgazrdobis lideri, erTeulTa xvedria. im wlebidan yvelaze metad ra gaxsendebaT?
– davamTavre baTumis SoTa rusTavelis saxelobis saxelmwifo pedagogiuri institutis saRamos ganyofilebis istoriuli fakulteti. paralelurad viricxebodi institutis qalTa sakalaTburTo gundSi. Cvens nakrebs SesaniSnavi sportsmeni genadi menabde xelmZRvanelobda, ubrwyinvalesi pirovneba iyo. moskovis msoflio axalgazrdobisa da studentTa me-12 festivalze (1985 weli), msoflio nakrebis winaaRmdeg viTamaSe sabWoTa nakrebis gundSi. matCi sabWoTa nakrebis gamarjvebiT damTavrda, raSic Cemi patara wvlilic ido – 17 qula. es momenti sainteresod aRwera Tavis wignSi (`weroebi~) saxelovanma qarTvelma Jurnalistma paata nacvliSvilma. Semdeg axalgazrdul organizaciaSi muSaobis interesic gamiCnda da ukve 24 wlis asakSi, xelvaCauris raionSi vmuSaobdi mesame, meore da pirveli mdivnis Tanamdebobebze. Semdeg, aWaris axalgazrduli organizacia Cavibare. xelvaCauris axalgazrdul organizaciaSi muSaobis dros gavicani saqarTvelos axalgazrdobis lideri Jiuli Sartava. wina saukunis 80-iani wlebis dasawyisSi saqarTvelos axalgazrdobis iniciativiTa da TaosnobiT, qarTuli kaklis jiSebis gaSeneba daiwyo. `dae, iSrialon kaklis xeebma~ – am deviziT Catarda praqtikuli RonisZiebani. mTelma saqarTvelom aitaca maSin es iniciativa da aWaris axalgazrdobamac am metad mniSvnelovan saqmeSi Tavisi sityva Tqva. saocari enTuziazmi iyo aWaraSi. aWaris gzatkecilidan dawyebuli danisparaulamde, aSrialda kaklis xeebi. iniciativam raionebis Siga soflebic moicva. madliereba minda gamovxato baton mixeil beriZis mimarT, romelic maSin aWaris soflis meurneobis sferos xelmZRvanelobda da gverdSi medga. . . saocrad Tbili da saqmiani damokidebuleba gvqonda meore msoflio omis veteranebTan, xSiri iyo maTTan Sexvedrebi, arcerT RonisZiebas maT gareSe ar vatarebdiT, im periodisaTvis gansakuTrebuli yuradReba eqceoda saqarTvelos Rirseul mamuliSvilebTan Sexvedrebs. axalgazrdobis iniciativiT, aWara maspinZlobda iseT adamianebs, rogorebic nodar dumbaZe, giorgi ciciSvili, nona gafrindaSvili, muxran maWavariani, SoTa niSnianiZe, enver xabaZe, fridon xalvaSi, zurab gorgilaZe, mamia varSaniZe, ioseb noneSvili, zurab anjafariZe, axalgazrda mxatvrebi, poetebi, mwerlebi, mecnierebi iyvnen.
– qveynis erovnul gmirs Jiuli Sartavas wigni miuZRveniT. axalgazrdul qalaq boris ZnelaZes erTad aSenebdiT. es pirovneba qveynisa da eris istoriaSi gamorCeul adgils iWers?
– Cemi Taoba da Jiuli Sartava ganuyofelia. igi Cems mexsierebaSi darCeba, rogorc Rirseuli qarTveli, Tavisi saqmis profesionali, niWieri da uangaro pirovneba. saocrad Zlieri da saqmiani gundi hyavda. rom ara misi didi SemarTeba da mondomeba, ver aSendeboda axalgazrduli qalaqi, romelsac mTeli saqarTvelo aSenebda da masSi gansakuTrebuli iyo aWaris axalgazrdobis wvlili. es qalaqi gadaiqca saintereso Sexvedrebis, azrTa urTierTgaziarebis did tribunad. iq Caeyara safuZveli oratorTa momzadebis skolas, romelic postsabWour sivrceSi pirveli iyo. aq mimdinareobda axalgazrda kadrebis swavleba da gadamzadeba im progresuli siaxleebiT, romelic maSin inergeboda. rac wlebi gadis, kidev erTxel vrwmundebi, rom bednieria Cemi Taoba, romelsac aseTi lideri hyavda. igi afxazeTis omSi separatistebma daxvrites. mas pirvels mieniWa saqarTvelos erovnuli gmiris wodeba. Jiuli Sartava TiToeuli CvenganisTvis magaliTad iqca. gavida wlebi, magram misdami damokidebuleba aravis Seucvlia. qalTa saerTaSoriso organizaciis soroptimist internacionalis klub `baTumis~ iniciativiT, baTumis xelovnebis centrSi pirvelad aRiniSna saqarTvelos erovnuli gmiris Jiuli Sartavas dabadebis 70 wlisTavi. mis TanamedroveTa erT-erTi Sexvedris dros, Cvenma qalbatonebma erTxmad aitaces vladimer mamulaZis iniciativa Jiuli Sartavas Sesaxeb wignis gamocemasTan dakavSirebiT da operatiulad Seiqmna saredaqcio kolegia. 2014 wlis martSi gaimarTa wignis – `samSoblosaTvis Tavdadebuli~ – wardgineba, me am wignis konsultanti gaxldiT. Semdgom amas mohyva Jiuli Sartavas saxelobis gamziri da giorgi Sxvacabaias mier Seqmnili gmirisave biusti gmirTa xeivanSi. 2024 wlis martSi, Jiuli Sartavas 80 wlisTavs misi Tanamedroveni isev aRvniSnavT. igi yovelTvis piradi magaliTi iqneba qarTveli axalgazrdobisTvis.
– aWaris Rirseul qalTa pleadaSi Tqveni adgili daimkvidreT. winamorbedTa Rvawls rogor afasebT?
– wilad mxvda bedniereba, Cemi saqmianobis gzaze damxvedroda SesaniSnav qalTa kohorta – lamara bolqvaZe, guliko kiknaZe, nani gugunava, naTela dumbaZe, rena sariSvili, guliko kakalaZe, sxvebi. maTgan imdeni viswavle, rom saqmianoba cxovrebis yvela etapze gamiadvilda. yvelaze mniSvnelovani im periodSi is iyo, rom aWaris maRalmTianeTidan dawyebuli baramde, udidesi roli dagvekisra qalTa uflebebis dacvis, ganaTlebis, janmrTelobis, kulturisa da mecnierebis sferoSi, mravalSvilian da martoxela dedebze mzrunvelobis saqmeSi. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan, am mimarTulebiT bevria gasakeTebeli.
– bednierebis Jams SeZenili megobrebi, gansacdelSi myofs gverdiT Tu dagidgnen?
– bolomde mxolod erTeulebma gauZles. . . madliereba minda gamovxato im adamianebis mimarT, romlebmac umZimesi aTi wlis ganmavlobaSi xeli gamomiwodes da gverdiT uangarod damidgnen. vinc SemomrCa, CemTvis uZvirfasesni arian, isini megobrebs ar yidian. . . gulnara basilaZe, rusudan faRava, daria TurmaniZe, rusudan futkaraZe, eTer dekanaZe. . . wlebi gavida da Cven isev erTmaneTiT vcxovrobT, CvenTvis lxinic erTia da Wiric. TiToeuli maTganis damsaxureba qveynisa da kuTxis winaSe gansakuTrebulia. erTgulad emsaxurebodnen samSoblos. Cvenma megobrobam ormoci wlis ganmavlobaSi bevr kataklizmas gauZlo, dResac erTad varT, SvilebiT, SviliSvilebiT da SvilTaSvilebiT mdidrebi.
– niaz omeraZe – mama, megobari iyo Tu. . .
– niaz omeraZe Cemi mamac iyo, megobaric da ojaxis mTavarsardalic. misi cxovrebiseuli kredo CemTvis magaliTi gaxda. iyo mkacri, samarTliani da udidesi mosiyvarule Tavisi ojaxis, Svilebis, saerTod, adamianebis. mis mier datovebuli sikeTe da siyvaruli axlac win mxvdeba. movaswari da gamovitane Cveni dakarguli mamiseuli saxlidan misi saarqivo masalebi da 2018 wels wigni mivuZRveni – `saubari mamasTan~, romelic am sferoSi Cemi pirveli damoukidebeli nabiji iyo.
– dedaze ras gvetyviT?
– deda – rusudan daviTaZe, haerovani, sifrifana, sikeTiT savse qalbatoni iyo, sidiadiTa da saTnoebiT savse. misma Tanadgomam cxovrebasa da saqmianobaSi bevri ram SemaZlebina. xSirad mifiqria, rom ara deda, amdens SevZlebdi? albaT ara! misi xelebis siTbo Tan damdevs, dedas salocav sityvebs ra gamoulevda, magram yvelaze xSirad ambobda: `RmerTma Tqvenze cudi ar gamagonos, dalocvili yofiliyaviT~. . .
– kargs yovelTvis mtroben. rogor reagirebT amaze?
– mtrebis gareSe adamianis cxovrebas fasi ar eqneboda. me isini xSirad mexmarebian. ra Tqma unda, gulic bevrjer matkines, umetesad, daumsaxureblad, amitom zogi maTganis `gadaCoCeba~ momiwia. . .
– am etapze ras saqmianobT?
– mravali ram maqvs mosaswrebi. zogjer Cemi Tavi isev axalgazrda mgonia da Zveli SemarTebiT vagrZeleb aRmarTs… nana gvariSvils Tu davesesxebi – `me erTxel kidev, wyalgadanasxam naRverdaliviT avSiSindebi~. vcdilob, SiSi ar Semeparos. isev ufals mivubrundebi da udides madlobas vuxdi yvelafrisaTvis. Tan vTxov, rom cota xans kidev gauZlos dedamiwam Cems simZimes. . . sadac ki vimuSave, yvelgan im saqmes vakeTebdi, rac Zalian miyvarda. axlac asea – amJamad baTumis saxelmwifo musikaluri centris ofisis menejeri var. amjerad SemoqmedebiT jgufTan erTad vmuSaob musikaluri centris istoriaze. ase rom, saintereso saqmes SeveWide. . .
– megobar qalebs memuaruli wignebis gamocemaSi Tanadgoma ar moakeliT. aranakleb saintereso iqneba, Tqveni moRvaweoba sazogadoebam wignad akinZuli ixilos. . .
– es Tanadgoma, garkveulwilad, sxvebis siCumem ganapiroba. es weli Zalian datvirTuli da nayofieri gamodga CemTvis. eTer dekanaZis memuarebze vimuSave. misi Tanxmobis Semdeg, SeyviTlebulma furclebma baTumisaken aiRo gezi da didi interesiT Sevudeqi Cemi kafandara da niWieri megobris CanafiqrTa gamomzeurebas. ase daibada wigni – `mogonebani gardasul dReTa~. aseve saintereso gamovida wigni Cemi megobris daria TurmaniZis moRvaweobis Sesaxeb. seqtembris bolos, aWaris mweralTa saxlSi saqarTvelos qalTa saerTaSoriso organizacia soroptimist internacionalis klubma `baTumma~ 30 wlis iubile izeima. Sedga klubis istoriis amsaxveli wigni-albomis – `evropuli momavlis imediT~ wardgineba. misi avtori qalbatoni naTela dumbaZea, me redaqtor-Semdgeneli. albaT, movida dro, rom Cemi ucnauri da saintereso cxovrebis arqivebidan amoviRo mTavari, sikeTiT, siyvaruliT, SemarTebiT da erTgulebiT ganvlili gzis etiudebi da erT wignad Sekrul memuarebs Seveparo.
– aWaraSi mravali stumris mompatiJebeli da maspinZeli iyaviT. maTgan vin dagamaxsovrdaT?
– damamaxsovrda saxelovani qarTveli kompozitori da diriJori andria balanCivaZe, romelsac xuloSi vaxldi. maestrom Tavis orkestrTan erTad, xulos saxelmwifo TeatrSi ubrwyinvalesi koncerti gamarTa. gansakuTrebuli kvali datova Cems cxovrebaSi baton gizo JordaniasTan urTierTobam. es gaxldaT reJisori, romelmac udidesi wvlili Seitana aWaraSi qarTuli kulturis ganviTarebaSi. bolos, 2014 wels viTanamSromle baton gizosTan – baTumis saxelmwifo musikalur centrSi JorJ bizes `karmeni~ dadga. da kidev mTavari – me momiwia im jgufTan TanamSromloba, romelsac evaleboda xuTi dRis ganmavlobaSi emaspinZla da gadaewyvita yvela mniSvnelovani organizaciuli sakiTxi, romelic exeboda msoflio maestros mstislav rostropoviCis koncerts aWaris saxelmwifo simfoniur orkestrTan erTad. es koncerti, romelsac daviT muqeria diriJorobda, 2003 wlis ivnisSi Sedga. mexsierebidan ar waiSleba saqmiani da saintereso Sexvedrebi maia TomaZesTan, zurab sotkilavasTan, elene obrazcovasTan, beqar monavardisaSvilTan, muxran maWavarianTan, muslim magomaevTan, oleg tabakovTan, koka ignatovTan, mirian SveliZesTan, uSangi imerliSvilTan, maria bieSusTan, vera wignaZesTan, rusudan fetviaSvilTan, qeTevan maRlakeliZesTan. . . yvelas CamoTvla Sors wagviyvans. am kuTxiT, bednierebis araerTi wuTi da saaTi mqonda, amitomac, bevri siZnelis miuxedavad, xSirad vfiqrob – Rirda amisTvis es cxovreba.
– sajaro RonisZiebebze xSirad saubrobT qveynis momavalze. . .
– am ocdaaTma welma bevri ram gvaCvena, SecdomebiT siarulis ufleba ukve ar gvaqvs. mtkiva, rac Cems samSoblos stkiva: ganaTlebis sistemaSi arsebuli problemebi; afxazeTisa da samaCablos dabrunebis gaxangrZliveba; siyvarulze siZulvilis Zaladoba; erovnuli azrovnebisa da cnobierebis sisuste; Cveni axalgazrdobis momavali; qarTuli enis gaufasureba da Cveni samSoblos istoriis arasakmarisi codna. . .
– ukraineli megobrebi Tu gyavT?
– megobrebi – ara, magram mezoblebi myavs. dRes ukrainaSi arsebuli viTareba gulTan mivitaneT yvelam. pirveli dReebidanve Cvenma qalTa saerTaSoriso organizaciam gansakuTrebuli wvlili Seitana ukraineli xalxis daxmarebaSi. erT-erTi pirvelni gamovexmaureT sruliad saqarTvelos kaTolikos-patriarqis ilia meoris iniciativas da TiTqmis erTi dRis ganmavlobaSi klub `baTumis~ qalbatonebma SeuZlebeli SeZles. Segrovda medikamentebi, sxvadasxva saxis produqti, maT Soris, bavSvis kvebis, aseve, tansacmeli, saTamaSoebi, romlebic uklebliv Cavida daniSnulebis adgilze. aq Camosul ukrainel stumrebsac udidesi Tanadgoma da mxardaWera aqvT TiToeuli Cvenganisgan. aRsaniSnavia baTumis saxelmwifo musikaluri centris xelmZRvanelobisa da SemoqmedebiTi koleqtivis araerTi iniciativa, saqvelmoqmedo RonisZieba. amaSi didi wvlili miuZRvis baTumSi arsebul ukrainis sakonsulos, romelTanac mWidro kavSiri gvaqvs. sistematurad viwvevT ukrainel bavSvebs, maT mSoblebs xelovnebis centrSi Catarebul koncertebsa da speqtaklebze. vfiqrob, msofliom yvelaferi unda gaakeTos ukrainaSi mSvidobisTvis.
– ras daamatebdiT?
– drom ise gairbina, ukan moxedvac ver movaswari. ar ifiqroT, mxolod dadebiTad vafaseb Cemi cxovrebis yvela nabijs da saqmianobas. . . zogjer mikvirs, rogor gamoviare is labirinTebi, romelic axlac SiSs mgvris. . . uneburad, magram mainc momiwia adamianebis ganawyeneba, mec bevri cremli mdenia, magram arasodes aravisTvis miRalatia, boroteba ar Camidenia. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan vTvli, rom metis gakeTeba SemeZlo. erTi vici – erTgulebiT vemsaxure samSoblos.
