ეს გზა მომავლის გზაა
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
`bavSvebs undaT mSvidoba~ – es qarTul-ukrainuli proeqti erT-erTi warmatebuli da gamorCeulia imaT Soris, amJamad rom xorcieldeba. misi TanadamfuZneblebis lili griCuleviCis da iulia fliSkos mowveviT amaswinaT ukrainaSi imyofeboda `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis lideri da amave dros saqvelmoqmedo fond `alilo 2015~-is xelmZRvaneli geno TebiZe, romelic am proeqtSic CarTulia da mravali keTili saqmis moTavea. dRes igi swored Tavis saqmianobaze gvesaubreba.
– axlaxan ukrainaSi imyofebodiT, ra iyo am vizitis mizani?
– upirvelesad, madloba am sakiTxiT dainteresebisTvis. ukrainaSi, 26 noembridan 7 dekemberis CaTvliT vimyofebodi. Cveni proeqtis mizani iyo, axlos gavcnobodi ukrainaSi mimdinare procesebs, ra situaciaa amJamad sxvadasxva qalaqSi, ras grZnoben adamianebi. . . unda aRiniSnos, rom ukrainelebi msoflioSi erT-erTi umamacesi da keTilSobili xalxia. bevr adamians Sevxvdi, pirvel rigSi, Cveni proeqtis monawileebs, romlis farglebSi saqarTveloSi Camogvyavda ukraina-ruseTis omSi dazaralebuli ojaxebis Svilebi da aseve, saqarTvelo-ruseTis omis dros dazaralebuli samxedroebis Svilebi Cagvyavs ukrainaSi. ZiriTadi mizania megobar qveynebs Soris saxalxo diplomatiis ganviTareba da xelSewyoba, msofliosTvis imis Tqma, rom CvenTvis mniSvnelovania Cveni Svilebis momavalze zrunva. ukve mTeli msofliosTvis cxadia, rom ruseTi ar indobs arc moxucebs, arc bavSvebs, anadgurebs infrastruqturas. Cven valdebulni varT, es procesi SevaneloT, xmamaRla vTqvaT da yvelas gavagonoT, rom mSvidobaze ukeTesi garemo Cveni SvilebisTvis ar arsebobs. mokled, am proeqtis mTavari xazi is aris, rom am patara bavSvebs davexmaroT SeZlebisdagvarad, SevuqmnaT mSvidi garemo. maT fsiqoreabelitaciasac vcdilobT da Cveni kuTxis kulturis, istoriis gacnobasac. marSruts: jer CavfrindiT poloneTSi, Semdeg lvovSi, iqidan gavemgzavreT odesis olqis mimarTulebiT, viyaviT kievSi, aseve irpenSi, buCaSi, ivano-frankoSi da Semdeg davbrundiT saqarTveloSi. CemTvis Zalian mniSvnelovani iyo am qalaqebSi Casvla, TiToeulSi vxvdebodiT Cveni proeqtis Tanamonawileebs da es iyo yvelaze gamorCeuli periodi da viziti. Zalian dagvexmara Cveni partiis lideri mamuka xazaraZe, romelmac mTlianad uzrunvelyo Cemi mivlineba ukrainaSi, madloba mas. Sevxvdi ara marto patarebs, aramed lvovisa da odesis olqebis gubernatoris moadgileebs, sxvadasxva samxedro danayofis xelmZRvanelebs. vnaxe dabombili qalaqebi, magram imaSic davrwmundiT, rom ruseTs rac surda, imas ver miaRwia. ver gaanadgura ukrainuli saxelmwifo, romelic Semdgari iyo, Semdgaria axla da Semdgari iqneba xvalac, yalibdeba erT-erT uZlieres qveynad, romelic Tavis Tavs daicavs momavalSi.
– viciT, rom ukrainaSi qarTvel mebrZolebsac SexvdiT, gviambeT amis Sesaxeb. . .
– Sexvedrebi mqonda qarTvel mebrZol vano nadiraZesTan, romelic ukrainis saxalxo gmiria. is did rols asrulebs ukrainis samxedro ZalebSi. es adamiani ukrainaSi qarTul saqmes akeTebs. aseve mqonda Sexvedra batalion `didgoris~ erT-erT xelmZRvanel Temo akofaSvilTan, ruslan diasamiZesa, da sxva mebrZolebTan, maTgan viRebdi informacias, Tu ra saxis daxmareba SeiZleba saqarTvelodan gavugzavnoT, an rogor davexmaroT maT ojaxebs saqarTveloSi. isini Zalian gaxarebulni arian, roca igeben, rom samSobloSi ase afaseben, Cveni mebrZolebi xom ukrainis da saqarTvelos bednieri momavalisaTvis ibrZvian.
– qarTveli mebrZolebis mimarT rogori ganwyobaa ukrainaSi?
– qarTveli mebrZolebi Zalian didi avtoritetiT sargebloben ukrainaSi. maT Rvawls Zalian afaseben, ukrainelebs maTi eimedebaT.
– amas winaT ukraineli bavSvebis baTumSi Camoiyvanisas vin dagexmaraT, gviambeT, rogor warimarTa yovelive?
– bavSvebi CamoviyvaneT Cveni proeqtis (`bavSvebs undaT mSvidoba~) TanadamfuZneblis lilia griCuleviCis mxardaWeriT da organizebiT. ukrainaSi Cveni ukraineli megobarebi zrunaven yvela saWiro sakiTxis mogvarebaze, xolo saqarTveloSi – Cven. bevri baTumeli dagvidga gverdiT, nawilma ar isurva, rom maTi saxelebi gagvemxila, Tumca proeqtis dasrulebis Semdeg yvelas Cvens feisgverdze gadavuxdiT madlobas, raTa istorias SemovunaxoT maTi Rvawli, ukraineli patarebisTvis. zafxulSi ori jgufi Camovida mamuka xazaraZis mxardaWeriT, es ki mesame jgufia, romelic CvenTan erTad Sexvdeba axal wels da sam ianvars gavamgzavrebT ukrainaSi. mxardaWera gvaqvs ubralo baTumelebisgan, rac Zalian maxarebs. dRes sWirdeba ukrainas mxardaWera da es yvelam unda gavacnobieroT.
– ukrainis mosaxleobaSi drodadro imedgacrueba xom ar SeimCneva dasavleTis zogierTi lideris gamonaTqvamebis gamo ukrainasTan mimarTebiT, kerZod, safrangeTis prezidentma makronma ganacxada, rom ruseTs saxe unda SeunarCundes. . .
– yvela antiukrainul gzavnils, vinc ar unda axmovanebdes, ukrainis mxridan mohyveba umkacresi reagireba. aTi Tve ukrainelebi sikvdils uyureben TvalebSi! Cven kargad gvaxsovs 2008 wlis omi, ramxela stresSi viyaviT adamianebi da warmoidgineT, ra mZime mdgomareobaSi arian ukrainelebi. cxadia, msgavs antiukrainul gancxadebebs ver Seeguebian.
praqtikulad, mTeli msoflio ukrainis mxaresaa, naxeT, ra epoqaluri daxvedra mouwyves zelenskis da mkafio mxardaWerac aRuTqves, am mxriv aSS-is daxmareba uprecedentoa.
– ra Tqma unda, am qveynis mkvidrni kargad akvirdebian msoflioSi mimdinare movlenebs, afaseben da saTanado daskvnebic gamoaqvT. aqve aranakleb mniSvnelovan sakiTxze msurs yuradReba gavamaxvilo: ukrainelebi Zalian mtkivneulad ganicdian im damokidebulebas, romelsac dRes Cveni qveynis xelisufleba ukrainis mimarT avlens. me ar gamigia, ukrainis romelime oficialur pirs raime augi eTqvas Cvens qveyanaze, wyenasac ki ar gamoxataven, ubralod, ukvirT es damokidebuleba da ver xsnian, ratom aqvs saqarTvelos xelisuflebas aseTi loialuri pozicia ruseTis mimarT, romelmac 14 wlis win igive gaukeTa saqarTvelos da praqtikulad, miwasTan gaaswora Cveni ekonomika da miiTvisa Cveni teritoriebi. rogorc giTxariT, maTTvis oficialuri Tbilisis poziciaa gasakviri ruseTTan mimarTebiT, Tumca imasac xvdebian, Tu ra safrTxis winaSe dgas saqarTvelo.
– proeqtis – `bavSvebs undaT mSvidoba~ erT – erTi sulisCamdgmeli xarT, ra aqtivobebi ganaxorcieleT am mimarTebiT?
– Zalian bevri. . . ara mxolod Camogyvavs bavSvebi, aramed vcdilobT, maT mivceT yvelaferi. pirvel rigSi, mniSvnelovania kargi garemos Seqmna. maT vaswavliT Cvens qveynebs Soris siyvaruls, es erT-erTi didi diplomatiuri misiaa, romelic Cven gvakisria. es patarebi rom gaizrdebian, sadac Sexeba eqnebaT saqarTvelosTan, darwmunebuli var, ormagad moindomeben misTvis kargis gakeTebas. es aris Cveni mTavari mizani. sxvaTa Soris, es bavSvebi TavianTi xeliT akeTeben qarTul kerZebs, xataven, swavloben Cvens damwrelobas. viciT, rom 30-milioniani xalxis beds am 30 bavSvis CamoyvaniT ver gadavwyvetT, ver SevcvliT arsebul mdgomareobas, magram darwmunebuli var, rom Cveni TanadgomiT sxvasac mivcemT magaliTs keTili saqmeebis gasakeTebelad. aqve imasac davZen, rom baTumSi moqmedebs humanitaruli daxmarebis centri, aseve – `maidan evropis~, `valantior baTumi~, romelTa mizania TavianTi wvlili Seitanon ukrainis daxmarebaSi.
– ukrainis saelCom mxolod `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ liderebi daajildova, amis Sesaxebac gviambeT?
– didi madloba unda gadavuxado ukrainis saelCos saqarTveloSi, gansakuTrebiT kasianovs, romelic marTla Zalian didi interesiT akvirdeba Cvens saqmianobas da mixaria, rom am adamianma didi yuradReba gamoxata Cveni partiis mimarT da daajildova, rogorc ukrainis megobrebi saqarTveloSi. aseT nominaciaSi moxvdnen Cveni liderebi, rac CvenTvis Zalian sasixaruloa. am mxriv aRsaniSnavia sxvadasxva proevropuli partiis saqmianoba, aseve minda gamovyo levan anTaZe, vaxo kaloiani da sxvebi, romlebic yovelmxriv gvexmarebian. am jildos miReba, cxadia, gamixarda, Tumca es mxolod Cemi jildo ar aris, aramed yvela Cveni Tanamoazrisaa.
– dabolos, samomavlod ukraineli bavSvebis dasaxmareblad ras gegmavT?
– piradad Cemi da Cemi megobrebis mizania ukrainel bavSvebs mzrunveloba ar moakldes, vecdebiT, rom maT SevuqmnaT siyvaruliT savse garemo, rasac moklebulni arian. amiT fsiqologiurad gaZlierebian da rwmeniT aRsavseni dabrundebian samSobloSi. isini xom qveynis momavals ganapirobeben. darwmunebuli var, Rirseulad gaagrZeleben im gzas, rasac maTi mamebi adganan. es gza Tavisuflebis, progresis, humanizmis, demokratiis gzaa, gza, romelsac civiluri, gonieri, Tavisufali adamiani irCevs, diax, es gza momavlis gzaa.