ვაჟა დარჩია: ხელისუფლება ძალაუფლების ხიბლშია ჩავარდნილი
ლაშა ხომერიკი 593 50 82 69 –
ai, 2022 welic istoriis kuTvnilebaa, ra mniSvnelovani movlenebi moxda gasul wels, ra gamowvevebi dgas axla Cven winaSe da rogoria maTi mogvarebis perspeqtivebi, opozicia da mmarTveli gundi ratom ver Tanxmdeba qveynisTvis umniSvnelovanes sakiTxebSi da ras unda velodoT 2023 wels saSinao da sagareo politikis TvalsazrisiT? am da sxva sakiTxebze `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri da amave dros baTumis sakrebulos wevri vaJa darCia gvesaubreba.
– politikuri TvalsazrisiT rogor SeafasebT 2022 wels, ra aspeqtebs gamohyofT?
– sakmaod rTuli weli iyo, razec Sidapolitikuri arastabilurobis miRma geopolitikurma faqtorebmac moaxdina gavlena. ra Tqma unda, wlis yvelaze mniSvnelovani movlena ukrainaSi ruseTis SeWra da omis dawyeba iyo, ramac SeiZleba iTqvas, msoflio dRis wesrigi Secvala da saqarTvelozec didi gavlena moaxdina, radgan Cveni moqalaqeebi kargad iazreben, rom ukrainis omze da masSi ukrainis gamarjvebazea damokidebuli Cveni qveynis xvalindeli dRe. am mZime movlenis fonze gagvexsna fanjara, romelic 2024 wlamde TiTqos ar Canda. vgulisxmob evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statuss, Tumca Tamamad SeiZleba vTqvaT, rom es Sansic ganiavda, razec, ra Tqma unda, mTavari pasuxismgebeli xelisuflebaa. gaxsovT, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ swored aqtiuri sazogadoebrivi protestis fonze miiRo gadawyvetileba da daaCqara 2024 wlisTvis daanonsebuli procesi. mniSvnelovani iyo `Sin evropisken~ aqciebi, romlebmac yvela dagvarwmuna, rom qarTvelebis istoriuli arCevani aris dasavleTi, asobiT aTasi Cveni Tanamoqalaqis gareT gamosvla iyo erTgvari imedis naperwkali, ramac me piradad, damanaxa, rom am winaaRmdegobebiT savse gzaze, uamravi mokavSire myavs da es qveyana uaxloes momavalSi aucileblad unda gaxdes evropuli ojaxis wevri, ufro sworad, dabrundes am istoriul ojaxSi. bunebrivia, rom wlis kidev erTi mTavari movlena swored evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatobaze uaris miReba iyo, Tumca is viTareba, romelic win uZRoda uars, ra Tqma unda, ar iZleoda sxva varaudis SesaZleblobas. gvaxsovs Sarl miSelis dokumentis anulireba. garda amisa, ukrainis konfliqtisadmi Cveni xelisuflebis gansxvavebuli da vityodi, mavnebluri damokidebuleba iyo mizezi im Sedegisa, rac dadga.
– mniSvnelovan Temebze isaubreT, am sakiTxebis mogvareba ra perspeqtivebs usaxavs Cvens qveyanas ganviTarebis kuTxiT?
– saSinao politika, rogorc bolo wlebs axasiaTebs – 2022-Sic ryevebiT iyo savse da amaze rogorc ukve aRvniSne, geopolitikuri procesebic moqmedebda. Cvens politikur klass hqonda saSinao davaleba batoni miSelisa da evrokavSirisgan, romelic ar Sesrulda da aman mkveTrad daaziana rogorc Cveni saSinao, ise sagareo politika. 2022 wels, albaT polarizaciis xarisxi maqsimalurad maRali iyo, rasac sxvebTan erTad mixeil saakaSvilis faqtormac xeli Seuwyo. am polarizebam gadafara rigi socialuri da ekonomikuri problemebi, razec sazogadoebas aqvs kiTxvebi da romelTa gadaWris gzebze unda saubrobdnen warmomadgenlobiT organoebSi, Tumca faqtia, rom xalxis xma arc ise xmamaRla ismis, rogorc saqarTvelos parlamentSi, aseve sakrebuloebSi. igives Tqma SeiZleba mediazec. samwuxaroa, Tumca es asea, raSic, ra Tqma unda, Cveni wili pasuxismgebloba opoziciasac gvakisria.
– cxadia, opoziciis daniSnuleba xelisuflebis kritikaa, Tumca mmarTveli partiis warmomadgenlebi acxadeben, rom opoziciuri speqtris braldebebi da SeniSvnebi arakonstruqciulia. . .
– xelisufleba Zalauflebis xiblSia Cavardnili. yvela xelisufals am qveyanaSi, samwuxarod, ase emarTeba, rac politikur process azianebs da sazogadoebaSi aCens gancdas, rom politika ZalauflebisTvis brZolaa, rac, samwuxarod, Cveni qveynis damoukideblobidan dRemde grZeldeba. gaxsovT, Cveni lideri rogor gaagdes Sekerili saqmis safuZvelze parlamentidan, mogvixsnes xalxis mier mocemuli xmebis mixedviT aRebuli sabiujeto dafinanseba. dRemde Cvens liderebs aqvT sasamarTlo procesebi. garda amisa, gaxsovT, rom miSelis dokumentis anulirebac `qarTuli ocnebis~ iniciativa iyo. aseve vnaxeT problemebi larsis sabaJoze. qveyanaSi ruseTidan uamravi adamiani Semovida, rac, TavisTavad, didi problemaa. amaze araTu Cveni moqalaqeebi, aramed dasavleli partniorebic, saubrobdnen. xelisufleba ki ukve Riad ambobs, rom saerTaSoriso partniorebic ki, Turme, arasworad akritikeben maT. swored esaa Zalauflebis xiblSi Cavardna. `qarTuli ocneba~ iqceva ise, rogorc iqceoda am qveyanaSi yvela xelisufleba, romlis mizanic iyo, CabRauWeboda Zalauflebas.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT evrokavSiris 12-punqtiani rekomendaciebis Sesrulebas, ra mdgomareobaa am mxriv da ra pretenziebi aqvs opozicias xelisuflebis misamarTiT?
– viciT, rom 2023 wlis bolomde gadagvewia am saSinao davalebis Sesrulebis dro. es imas niSnavs, rom Cvenma partniorebma am mimarTulebiT veranairi winsvla ver dainaxes. Cven rom 2022 wlis dekemberSi migveRo pasuxi, cxadia, es pasuxi uaryofiTi iqneboda, radgan Tamamad SemiZlia vTqva, rom dRemde, faqtobrivad, arcerTi punqti ar Sesrulebula am mimarTulebiT. is ki ara, maSin, roca Cveni partniorebi migviTiTebdnen politizebul marTlmsajulebaze, Cveni xelisufleba awinaurebda iseT mosamarTleebs, romlebic rogorc wina, aseve am xelisuflebis pirobebSic iyvnen politikuri dakveTis mTavari Semsruleblebi. garda amisa, xelisuflebam gaauqma saxelmwifo inspeqtoris samsaxuri, aseve partiuli eZaxa saxalxo damcvels, romelic gamorCeulad Seaqes dasavlelma partniorebma, maT Soris aSS-is elCma, saxelisuflebo gundi dRemde agdebs saxalxo damcvelis arCevis process, deoligarqizaciis kanonSi apirebs moaqcios yvela, garda im oligarqisa, viszec Riad gvesaubrebian, maT Soris evroparlamentarebi. dasavleTs adanaSauleben saqarTvelos omSi CaTrevis mcdelobaSi, qmnian gandegili deputatebis jgufs, romlis mTavari amocanac dasavleTis lanZRvaa. swored yvela am da sxva faqtorebis gaTvaliswinebiT SemiZlia Tamamad vTqva, rom `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelisuflebis pirobebSi Cveni qveyana ver miiRebs evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statuss da es aris samwuxaro mocemuloba yvela Cveni moqalaqisTvis.
– aranakleb rezonansuli Temaa saakaSvilis janmrTelobis mdgomareoba. am mxriv `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ gamosavals raSi xedavs da opoziciuri speqtri ramdenad erTiania mesame prezidentis ucxoeTSi mkurnalobasTan dakavSirebiT?
– me mixeil saakaSvilis trfiali arasodes vyofilvar, piriqiT, mimaCnia, rom sistema, romelsac is marTavda, danaSaulebrivi da mZime iyo, Tumca dRes is aris politikuri mizanSewonilobis patimari da ara danaSaulze pasuxismgebeli patimari. mimaCnia, rom arcerTi adamiani, ganurCevlad statusisa, cixeSi ar unda kvdebodes. vici, rom es idealisturi survilia, Tumca aqamde unda mivideT. Tu nebismieri patimris janmrTelobasa da sicocxles emuqreba safrTxe da saqarTvelos jandacvis sistema ver axerxebs am safrTxeebTan gamklavebas, aucilebelia misi sazRvargareT gadayvana da sasjelis gadavadeba. mimaCnia, rom mixeil saakaSvilis gadayvana sazRvargareT mniSvnelovania da, aseve, im qveynidan, romelSic mas gauSveben, unda moviTxovoT garantia, rom gamojanmrTelebis SemTxvevaSi mas aucileblad daabruneben saqarTveloSi. ar var im kategoriis opozicioneri, romelsac mixeil saakaSvili udanaSaulod miaCnia, Tumca am formis revanSizmi aris institutis da qveynis imijis daufasebloba.
– vxedavT imasac, rom `nacmoZraobaSi~ mkveTri urTierTdapirispirebaa. . .
– rTulia isaubro oponentebze. marTalia, sxva partiidan, magram Cvenc xom opoziciis nawili varT da Sida samzareuloze laparaki Cemi mxridan ar iqneba swori, Tumca mimaCnia, rom saerTo opoziciuri brZolisTvis is procesebi, rac dRes `nacmoZraobaSi~ midis, damazianebelia da mxolod mmarTveli gundis wisqvilze asxams wyals. es aris am etapze maqsimumi, risi Tqmac SemiZlia `nacionalur moZraobaSi~ mimdinare movlenebze.
– sakanonmdeblo organoSi kvlav ver airCies saxalxo damcveli, es risi maniSnebelia da am procesSi kompromisze vin unda wavides – mmarTveli partia Tu opozicia?
– saxalxo damcvelis institutisadmi `qarTuli ocnebis~ damokidebuleba araxalia. gvaxsovs umravlesobis mier arCeuli batoni nanuaSvili, romelic bolos partiul saxalxo damcvelad monaTles. igive bedi ewia qalbaton lomjariasac, romelic aseve maT mier iyo mxardaWerili. Sesabamisad, `qarTul ocnebas~, Cans, ar aRelvebs am institutis damoukideblobis xarisxi, piriqiT, dRes parlamentSi mimdinare procesi mTlianad mimarTulia iseTi saxalxo damcvelis arCevisken, romlis morCilebis xarisxic iqneba maRali da amis gamo xelisufleba mzadaa arCevis wesic ki Secvalos, rac TavisTavad bevr rameze metyvelebs. opoziciam mesame seqtorTan erTad, waradgina sakuTari kandidaturebi, Tumca maT mimarT xelisufleba Sav piars agorebda da masSi mTavari salanZRavi sityvebi xSirad iyo: liberaloba, medasavleTeoba, feministoba da sxva.
– sxvaTa Soris, arasaparlamento opozicia kvlav mouwodebs saparlamento opozicias parlamentis datovebisken, raTa daiwyos sayovelTao saxalxo daumorCileblobis kampania, amaze ras fiqrobT?
– mimaCnia, rom am etapze Cveni mxridan warmomadgenlobiTi organoebis datoveba araswori iqneba, radgan CemTvis miuRwevelia mizani, romelsac xelisuflebis delegitimacia hqvia. vfiqrob, saqarTvelos parlamentSi warmoudgenelia SeTanxmeba saerTo boikotze, rigi opoziciuri partiebi, faqtia, am dRis wesrigs ar eTanxmebian da Sesabamisad, delegitimaciis sakiTxic problemuri xdeba. miuxedavad imisa, rom arcerT warmomadgenlobiT organoSi xelisufleba opoziciis rCevebs didwilad ar iTvaliswinebs, mgonia, rom iq yofna am etapze aucilebelia da Tundac is diskomforti, romelsac rogorc sakrebuloebSi, aseve parlamentSi `lelo~ xelisuflebas uqmnis, mniSvnelovania. garda amisa, es aris tribuna, romelic gvmatebs resurss da gvaZlevs met adamianTan komunikaciis saSualebas, rac mniSvnelovania partiuli zrdisTvis.
– amas winaT, garkveulwilad, Camoyalibda `girCis~, `droas~ da `strategia aRmaSeneblis~ koalicia. Tqveni partia apirebs Tu ara msgavsi koaliciis Seqmnas da saerTod, ratom ar iqmneba mZlavri mesame Zala, romelic momavalSi xelisuflebaSi movidoda?
– iciT, rom 2024 wlis arCevnebi srulad proporciuli sistemiT, blokebis gareSe Catardeba, barieris sakiTxi am etapze haerSia gamokidebuli da `qarTuli ocneba~ amas saTavisod gamoiyenebs. pirveli mosmeniT miRebulia 2%-ini barieri, dRevandeli mocemulobiT barieri iqneba 5% da ar iqneba blokebi. es niSnavs imas, rom Tu es sameuli arCevnebSi monawileobas erTad gadawyvets, maSin es romelime masSi Semavali partiis siiT unda moxdes, aseve gzaa am sami partiis mxridan sruliad axali politikuri centris Seqmna. arCevnebSi monawileoba sxvagvarad warmoudgeneli iqneba teqnikuri TvalsazrisiT. swored es kiTxvebi gvqonda am sameulTan – rogor apirebdnen samomavlod aqtivobas? kiTxvebze pasuxebi ar migviRia, Sesabamisad, am etapze koncentrirebulni varT Zlieri partiuli institutis Seqmnaze. gvaqvs sruliad damoukidebeli dRis wesrigi, Tumca es ar niSnavs imas, rom `lelo~ iqneba asketi da saerTo opoziciuri frontis winaaRmdegi. mogexsenebaT, rom Cven 2021 wlis TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi monawileoba saerTo formatSi miviReT, miuxedavad imisa, rom partiuli gadmosaxedidan es SeiZleba araswori svla yofiliyo. amiT sazogadoebas davanaxeT, rom gamosavali unda veZioT TanamSromlobasa da koaliciur mmarTvelobaSi.
– yvela partia hpirdeba mosaxleobas keTildReobas, ayvavebas. . . Tqveni partiis gegmebi ramdenad realuria qveynis ganviTarebis TvalsazrisiT?
– Cveni gundi mravalmxrivi gamocdilebis mqone adamianebis, profesionalebis erTobaa. marSalis gegmis upiratesoba swored es gamocdileba da profesionalizmia. samuSao adgilebis Seqmna, investiciebis mozidva, msxvili infrastruqturuli proeqtebis warmoeba… es mcire CamonaTvalia imisa, rasac wlebis ganmavlobaSi Cveni liderebi akeTebdnen, amitom martivia, visaubroT imaze, Tu ramdenad realuria Cveni saarCevno programa.
– haagis sasamarTlos amaswinandeli gadawyvetileba ramdenad mniSvnelovania okupirebuli teritoriebis deokupaciis TvalsazrisiT?
– pirvel rigSi, imisTvis, rom pasuxi gaeca xelisuflebis ritorikas agvistos omTan dakavSirebiT, gairkva, rom saqarTvelo mxolod Tavs icavda da, Sesabamisad, oms ver daiwyebda. es isedac yvelam icoda da sxva gancxadebebis keTeba am qveynis Ralatis tolfasi iyo, Tumca Cveni xelisufleba amasac axerxebda. ra Tqma unda, mniSvnelovani gadawyvetilebaa yvela mimarTulebiT. msoflioSi mimdinare procesebis gaTvaliswinebiT, Tamamad SegviZlia Tqma, rom ase axlos deokupaciasTan arasdros vyofilvarT, Tumca surs ki deokupacia saqarTvelos xelisuflebas? es aris aq mTavari kiTxva. dgams ki raime konkretul nabijebs am mimarTulebiT?
– dabolos, ras elodebiT 2023 wels saSinao da sagareo politikis TvalsazrisiT?
– pirvel rigSi, velodebi Cveni ukraineli megobrebis gamarjvebas borotebaze. es aris Cemi mTavari saaxalwlo survili, romelic aucileblad amisruldeba da es procesi Zalian did gavlenas moaxdens saqarTvelos rogorc saSinao, aseve sagareo politikaze.
