,,ეს კანონპროექტი არასამთავრობო ორგანიზაციების საქმიანობას არ ზღუდავს”
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`xalxis Zalis~ mier axlaxan inicirebuli kanonproeqti `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ sazogadoebaSi azrTa sxvaobas iwvevs. opozicionerTa TqmiT, is partniori saxelmwifoebis mier dafinansebuli mediisa da arasamTavrobo seqtoris SezRudvas iTvaliswinebs. `xalxis Zalis~ warmomadgenelTa azriT ki msgavsi kanoni aSS-mac miiRo da opoziciis braldebebi usafuZvloa
eqspertTa umravlesoba miiCnevs, rom zemoaRniSnul kanonproeqts araferi aqvs saerTo dasavlurTan, igi ufro ruseTSi miRebuli kanonis analogiuria. kanonproeqtis irgvliv msjeloba grZeldeba sazogadoebis sxvadasxva speqtrSi. davinteresdiT, rogor afaseben am kanonproeqts arasamTavrobo organizaciebis warmomadgenlebi. aWaraSi warmatebiT saqmianobs `simarTlisa da samarTlis, CagrulTa da patimarTa uflebebis dacvisa da socialuri uzrunvelyofis saerTaSoriso organizacia~. dRes misi xelmZRvaneli givi mamulaZe gvesaubreba.
– `xalxis Zalis~ mier parlamentSi wardgenili kanonproeqti `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~, eqspertTa TqmiT, saqarTvelos partniori qveynebis mier dafinansebuli mediisa da arasamTavrobo seqtoris SezRudvas iTvaliswinebs.
– marTali giTxraT, CemTvis gaugebaria am kategoriis eqspertTa mosazreba-gancxadebebi. vinc Tavs eqsperts uwodebs, valdebulia, siRrmiseulad gangvimartos Tavisi Tvalsazrisi. maTi mosazreba mcdaria, an Segnebulad amaxinjeben faqtebs.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– Tvalsazriss, rom kanonproeqti saqarTvelos partniori qveynebis mier dafinansebuli mediisa da arasamTavrobo seqtoris SezRudvas iTvaliswinebs, ar veTanxmebi – is ar zRudavs am kanonis safuZvelze ucxouri gavlenis agentad registrirebuli subieqtis saqmianobas. kanonproeqtSi saubaria saqmianobis da finansebis xarjvis gamWvirvalobaze. Tuki arasamTavrobo organizacia Tavisi Semosavlis 20 procentze mets iRebs sazRvargareTis qveynebidan (am nawilSi SezRudva ar aris), is valdebulia, daregistrirdes sajaro reestrSi da waradginos (Semosavlebisa da xarjis) finansuri deklaracia! Tuki nebismieri arasamewarmeo, arakomerciuli iuridiuli piri finansur deklaracias Seavsebs, raa amaSi cudi? Cven xom isedac angariSvaldebulni unda viyoT sazogadoebasTan saqmianobis Sesaxeb, xolo Tu Cveni saqmianoba kanonieria, maSin ra problemaa, ratom ar unda warvadgino Cveni Semosaval-gasavlis deklaracia weliwadSi erTxel?! raSi izRudeba Cveni, rogorc arasamTavrobo organizaciis uflebebi?! magram Tuki Tanxebs aramiznobrivad vxarjavT, maSin savsebiT legitimuria eWvic. vfiqrob, demokratiul qveynebSi yvelas saqmianoba unda iyos gamWvirvale. egreT wodebul eqspertebs minda vkiTxo: konkretulad raSi izRudeba arasamTavroboebis uflebebi? aRniSnuli kanonproeqti ar krZalavs dafinansebas ucxo qveynidan, mTavari moTxovnaa deklaraciis Sevseba maTi saqmianobis gamWvirvalobisaTvis. saqmianobis da finansebis xarjis gamWvirvalobas Tu Tvlian SezRudvad, es argumenti gaugebari da absurdulia.
– opoziciaSi amboben, rom Tu kanonproeqti miiRebs mxardaWeras da kanonad iqceva im formiT, rac gvaqvs, maSin mosalodnelia, rom evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusis miReba-armiRebis sakiTxi radikalurad gadaixaros armiRebisken. Tqven ras fiqrobT?
– pasuxamde minda davsva ritorikuli kiTxva: risTvis SevdivarT evrokavSirSi? am gaerTianebaSi Sesvla gvinda ara statusisTvis, aramed masSi arsebuli sikeTeebis miRebisaTvis, kerZod, demokratiisTvis, samarTlianobisTvis, ganaTlebisTvis, ganviTarebisTvis… evropuli qveynebis gancxadebiT, isini kandidat qveynebs mouwodeben TviTgamorkvevisa da demokratiisken. Tu maTi pozicia gadaixreba evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusis armiRebisken, maSin unda ganmarton – ratom? es kanonproeqti arasamTavrobo organizaciebs saqmianobas xom ar ukrZalavs, maSin ratom unda iyos pretenzia? Tuki es ase moxdeba, maSin CavTvli, rom isini Tavs gvaxveven TavianT mosazrebebs da erevian Cveni (demokratiuli) qveynis Sida saqmeebSi, rac ar unda iyos evrokavSiris gzavnili ucxo qveynebSi. maSin demokratiasTan ki ara, diqtaturasTan gvaqvs saqme.
– am kanonproeqtis avtorTa TqmiT, msgavsi kanoni amerikasac aqvs, xolo opozicia acxadebs, rom igi rusulis analogiuria, vin SeiZleba CaiTvalos da rogor ganisazRvreba `ucxoeli agentis~ statusi?
– diax, amerikasac da ruseTsac aqvs miRebuli msgavsi kanonebi, magram isic viciT, rom isini Sinaarsobrivad gansxvavdeba. gancxadeba gancxadebisTvis ar unda iyos, mainteresebs, ratom acxadebs opozicia, rom konkretuli kanonproeqti rusulia, me gavecani aRniSnul kanonproeqts da miuRebeli muxli da punqti ar minaxavs. kanonproeqts Tu ar kiTxuloben da zedapirulad acxadeben, eg ar vici. kidev erTxel vacxadeb, warmodgenil kanonproeqtSi saubari ar aris saqmianobisa da dafinansebis akrZalvaze, mxolod – angariSvaldebulebasa da gamWvirvalobaze. `ucxoeli agentis~ statusi CemTvis miuRebeli terminia, agenti Cems cnobierebaSi aris is piri, vinc qveynis interesebis sawinaaRmdegod saqmianobs. rac Seexeba kanonproeqtiT `ucxoeli agentis~ statuss, is eniWeba im sazogadoebriv organizaciebs, romelTa Semosavlis 20 procentze meti ucxo qveynidan modis.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi imasac acxadeben, rom mosaxleobam unda icodes, vin rogor finansdeba, xolo arasamTavrobo organizaciebis TqmiT, es informacia gasajaroebulia. realurad ra mdgomareobaa?
– savsebiT veTanxmebi mmarTveli gundis am mosazrebas. sazogadoebam unda icodes, vin, saidan, risTvis, ratom, rogor finansdebian da ra saqmianobas ewevian am finansebiT, aRniSnuli finansebi qveynis mosaxleobis erovnuli interesebisTvis ixarjeba Tu garkveuli privilegirebuli wris miznebis misaRwevad? sazogadoeba ra sargebels naxulobs ucxo qveynebidan miRebuli finansebiT? dReisaTvis finansuri nawili cnobilia damfinanseblisTvis da ara sazogadoebisTvis. saqmianobis da finansebis xarjvis gasajaroeba arasamTavroboebis pirad nebazea damokidebuli da kanonmdeblobiT is sazogadoebis winaSe araa valdebuli.
– eqsperti sandro TvalWreliZe ambobs, rom am kanonproeqtis mixedviT, yvelaze didi agenti am qveyanaSi erovnuli bankis prezidentia, romelic wlebis ganmavlobaSi msoflio bankSi muSaobda da axlac samsaxurebrivad swored saerTaSoriso organizaciebTanaa dakavSirebuli. msgavsi faqtebis moyvana kidev SeiZleba. realurad es ra daskvnis safuZvels iZleva?
– udanaSaulobis prezumfciidan gamomdinare, am sakiTxze ver gavakeTeb daskvnebs – nebismier adamians brali edeba mas Semdeg, roca sasamarTlos kanonier ZalaSi Sesuli gadawyvetileba gveqneba xelSi. am etapze msgavsi gadawyvetileba xelT ar gvaqvs. varaudis doneze savsebiT SesaZlebelia, aRniSnul gancxadebas hqondes arsebobis ufleba, magram varaudi Semowmebuli da dasabuTebuli unda iyos.
– rogor fiqrobT, parlamenti dauWers Tu ara mxars am kanonproeqts da rogori iqneba dasavleTis pozicia?
– didi albaTobiT, parlamenti dauWers warmodgenil kanonproeqts mxars, radgan opozicias da mowinaaRmdegeebs dRemde ar gauJRerebiaT dasabuTebuli kontrargumentacia. aRniSnuli sakiTxi politikuri Wrilisaa, Tu dasavleTis pozicia uaryofiTi iqneba, maSin gamodis, rom amerikuli kanonproeqtic uaryofiTia… CemTvis mTavari argumentacia da dasabuTebaa.
– saqarTvelos prezidenti salome zurabiSvili acxadebs, rom Tu parlamenti miiRebs `xalxis Zalis~ zemoaRniSnul kanonproeqts, is vetos daadebs.
– prezidents aqvs konstituciurad vetos dadebis ufleba, magram man aucileblad damajereblad unda daasabuTos amis aucilebloba da kanonproeqtis antikonstituciuroba.
– sainteresoa, ruseTis garda, kidev Tu aris sadme msgavsi kanonproeqti miRebuli postsabWoTa sivrceSi?
– konkretul pasuxs ver gagcemT, ar aris gamoricxuli, sxva qveynebSic iyos msgavsi kanonebi.
– udavoa, rom qveynis erT-erTi umTavresi problema politikuri speqtris polarizebaa, amis dasaZlevad xelisuflebam da opoziciam ra unda gaakeTon?
– samwuxarod, am nawilSi politikuri speqtris orive mxare scodavs. xSirad maTi qmedebebi polarizaciisken gadadgmuli nabijebia. Tavdapirvelad, orive mxare – pozicia-opozicia unda SeTanxmdes im ZiriTad sakiTxebze, razedac SesaZlebelia qveynis interesebis gaTvaliswinebiT poziciebis daaxloeba da sakiTxis gadawyveta, xolo Semdeg unda ecados demokratiuli gzebiT (diplomatiurad) SeTanxmebul sakiTxebze konsensusis miRwevas. arcerTma mxarem Tavisi viwro partiuli interesebi qveynis interesebze win ar unda daayenos.
– Tqveni organizacia vis winaSea valdebuli da rogor xdeba misi muSaobis monitoringi?
– rogorc iciT, `simarTlisa da samarTlis, CagrulTa da patimarTa uflebebis dacvisa da socialuri uzrunvelyofis saerTaSoriso organizaciis~ xelmZRvaneli var. organizacia 2005 wels davafuZneT TanamoazreebTan erTad. miuxedavad imisa, rom ucxo qveynebidan erTi TeTric ar agviRia, saqmes warmatebiT varTmevT Tavs. vmuSaobT, raTa ganvaxorcieloT organizaciis ZiriTadi miznebi, viyoT marTlebi, samarTlianebi, gverdSi davudgeT gaWirvebul adamianebs. miuxedavad imisa, rom yvelafers Cveni ZalebiT vakeTebT, Tavs movaled vTvli, sazogadoebas CavabaroT angariSi Cveni saqmianobis Sesaxeb. kanonmdeblobiT es ar gvevaleba, magram CvenTvis am SemTxvevaSi kanoni ki araa mTavari, aramed sazogadoebisTvis Cveni saqmianobis, misi arsisa da safuZvlebis gacnoba. ukeTesia, rac ufro gamWvirvale iqneba Cveni saqmianoba, radgan Semfasebelic da rCeva-darigebis momcemic meti iqneba, axali ideebi da mosazrebebi gaCndeba, rac dagvexmareba organizaciis ganviTarebaSi.
– bolo wlebSi Tqvens organizaciaSi gakeTebuli saqmeebidan romels gamoyofT?
– amayad SemiZlia ganvacxado, rom kmayofili var organizaciisa da Cveni gundis saqmianobiT. mravali magaliTi SemiZlia davasaxelo, magram ors gamovyof: SarSan Cveni CareviTa da rekomendaciiT dafinansda da xelis mtevani SeunarCunda mcirewlovan bavSvs; samive instanciis sasamarTloSi uTanasworo brZolaSi SevZeliT socialurad daucveli ojaxis gamosaxlebisgan gadarCena da misTvis marTlzomierebaSi arsebuli qonebis sakuTarebaSi dakanoneba.
– dabolos, kandidatis statusis miReba ra perspeqtivebs an gamowvevebs usaxavs saqarTvelos?
– ra Tqma unda, kandidatis statusis miReba qveynisTvis kargia, ufro meti reforma, ganviTareba, ekonomika, demokratia, anu qveynis winaSe meti perspeqtiva Cndeba, magram rogorc rigiTi moqalaqe, neitralitetis momxre var, minda, Cemi qveyana iyos damoukidebeli, TviTmyofadi, neitraluri, erovnuli interesebis gamtarebeli, kulturisa da tradiciebis pativismcemeli, pirvel rigSi – sakuTaris.