,,დასავლური მომავალი ხელშეუხებელია”
äïøï õëèåîòêò 593 50 82 69 –
yvelaze didi safrTxe Cveni qveynisTvis, rusul okupaciasaTan erTad, arastabiluri politikuri garemo da arasaxarbielo ekonomikuri mdgomareobaa, romelsac, Tu ar davZlevT, yovelTvis mohyveba sxva safrTxeebic, rac araerTxel dadasturda, isic cxadia, rom saqarTvelos saSinao viTareba mkveTrad aisaxeba sazogadoebis da TiToeuli adamianis ganviTarebaze, ris gasaumjobesebladac bevri ramaa gasakeTebeli. aqedan gamomdinare, ismis araerTi kiTxva: ra cxadyo `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~kanonproeqtTan dakavSirebulma mitingebma, prezident zurabiSvilis antisamTavrobo gzavnilebi risi maniSnebelia? evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusi mogveniWeba Tu ara? – am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze Tavis Tvalsazriss `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri da baTumis sakrebulos wevri vaJa darCia gviziarebs.
– bolo dros ganviTarebul movlenebze visaubroT, TqvenTvis ra sakiTxebi iyo aqtualuri?
– bolo periodi qarTuli politikisTvis gansakuTrebiT cxeli aRmoCnda. sami dRe gadaWedili iyo rusTavelis prospeqti protestantebiT. es iyo procesi, romelmac daadastura, rom axalgazrdebi ar Seeguebian arafer rusuls. Taobam, romelic daibada damoukidebel saqarTveloSi, yvelaze kargad icis, rom ruseTi aris okupanti. ruseTis prezidenti dRes ukve oficialuradaa Seracxuli omis damnaSaved haagis tribunalis mier. bolodroindelma procesma damanaxa, rom axali Taoba Cveni qveynisTvis dasavlur gzas aucileblobad miiCnevs da rogorc ki xelisufleba am gzas gadauxvevs, axalgazrdebs sensoruli reaqcia eqnebaT da xelisuflebas yovelTvis mouwevs ukan daxeva, rogorc es moxda `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ kanonis miRebis SemTxvevaSi.
– ratom iyo `xalxis Zalis~ mier inicirebuli kanonproeqti opoziciisTvis miuRebeli?
– zemoaRniSnuli kanonproeqti emsaxureboda imas, rom xelisuflebas hqonoda Cveni partniorebis SezRudvis kanonieri instrumentebi TiTqosda gamWvirvalobis motiviT. Tu organizacia 20 procentze met Semosavals iRebda ucxoeTidan, is unda daregistrirebuliyo ucxouri gavlenis agentad. garda amisa, xelisufleba am kanoniT itovebda SesaZleblobas, rom weliwadSi orjer monitorings gauwevda am organizaciebs. yvela dasavluri organizacia, romelic Cvens qveyanaSi muSaobs, aris maqsimalurad gamWvirvale, kompiuteris elementarul doneze codna sakmarisia, rom dainteresebulma pirma miiRos informacia misi TiToeuli TeTris daxarjvis Sesaxeb, Sesabamisad, problema am mimarTebiT ar arsebobs. monitoringis Sesaxeb es punqti swored imis gamovlinebaa, rom xelisufleba qmnida instruments, riTac SeZlebda konkretuli organizaciebis gaSavebas da maT diskreditirebas kanonis CarCoSi. aseTi kanoni miiRo putinma. xelisufleba rom saubrobs aSS-sa da kanadaze, iq sruliad sxva konteqstia da saubaria mtrul saxelmwifoebze. garda amisa, kanadaSi jer am kanonis irgvliv sajaro ganxilvebi mimdinareobs, procesi sazogadoebis maqsimaluri CarTulobiT midis da ara ise, rogorc amas Cveni xelisufleba cdilobda. es kanonproeqti miuRebeli iyo ara opoziciisTvis, aramed Cveni dasavluri momavlisTvis da amaze yvela Cveni partniori Riad saubrobda. sabednierod, xelisuflebas qarTulma sazogadoebam Riad uTxra, rom dasavluri momavali xelSeuxebelia da mixaria, rom am brZolis avangardSi axalgazrda Taoba Cadga.
– mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom mosaxleoba da axalgazrdoba opoziciam SecdomaSi Seiyvana. aqedan gamomdinare, isini mosaxleobasTan Sexvedrebs gamarTaven am kanonproeqtis ukeT gasacnobad, ras fiqrobT?
– warmoudgenlad mentoruli tonia sakuTari mosaxleobis mimarT. es kanonproeqtis gawvevis Semdeg ki ara, mis miRebamde unda gaekeTebina xelisuflebas, Tumca cxadia, rom winaswar icodnen sazogadoebis pasuxi am kanonproeqtze da Seecadnen, daCqarebuli wesiT mieRoT. Sedegi ki isaa, rom naxes, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba am qveyanaSi jer kidev arsebobs da miuxedavad misi aTasnairad diskreditaciisa, is yovelTvis iqneba am qveynis dasavluri momavlis sadarajoze.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, gamarTulma mitingebma isic gvaCvena, rom axali Taoba didad arc opozicias endoba, ra daskvna unda gamoitanon aqedan politikurma Zalebma?
– diax, me es undobloba samarTlianad mimaCnia, axalgazrda Taoba daiRala ucvleli politikosebis yurebiT. Cemi da Cemi TanamebrZolebis politikur procesSi CarTvac swored imas emsaxureboda, rom axalgazrdebs davubrunoT politikuri procesebisadmi ndoba. dRes, sabednierod, es dawyebulia. uamravi axalgazrda politikosia, romelic apirebs am qveynis ukeTesi momavlisTvis brZolas im upiratesobebis gamoyenebiT, rac Cvens Taobas aqvs, amitom vTvli, rom politikuri procesis marTva xelSi unda aiRos axalgazrda, sufTa Taobam da es dawyebulia.
– opozicia ukmayofiloa xelisuflebis saqmianobiT, Tumca mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom qveyana Tanmimdevrulad viTardeba, am mxriv opoziciis SeniSvnebi sxvadasxva sakiTxTan mimarTebiT ramdenad argumentirebulia?
– Cveni politikuri gundis argumentebi yovelTvis efuZneboda faqtebsa da mocemulobebs. magaliTad, is, rom am xelisuflebas araswori pozicia aqvs ukrainasTan mimarTebaSi, aris faqti. rekordulad rom gaizarda emigrantebis raodenoba, esec faqtia. larsis sabaJodan rusebis ukontrolo Semodineba Tveebis ganmavlobaSi am qveynis usafrTxoebisTvis problemaa, 50 aTasze meti bavSvi am qveyanaSi SimSilobs, nadgurdeba gelaTi, skverebsa da parkebSi iRupebian axalgazrdebi – esec faqtebia. bevri sxva problemaa, SemiZlia dausruleblad CamovTvalo, Tumca, mgoni, sakmarisia im rTuli mdgomareobis aRsawerad, rac xdeba Cvens qveyanaSi.
– opoziciis da mmarTveli partiis dapirispirebis sakiTxi, ZiriTadad, evrokavSiris 12 rekomendaciis Sesrulebas ukavSirdeba. . .
– 12 punqti aris mTavari gamowveva am qveynisTvis, saSinao davaleba, romelic jer kidev Seusrulebelia da amis mTavari mizezi, ra Tqma unda, xelisuflebaa, amaze miuTiTebs `rusuli kanonis~ irgvliv ganviTarebuli procesebi. yvela Cveni dasavleli partniori, vinc es 12 rekomendacia mogvca, gvesaubreboda aRniSnuli kanonis miuReblobaze, Tumca Zalauflebis SenarCunebisTvis amasac ki Seecada `qarTuli ocneba~. Tamamad SeiZleba imis Tqma, rom Tu wlis bolos Cveni qveyana miiRebs kandidatis statuss, es iqneba madlierebis gamoxatva qarTveli xalxis mimarT da Cveni partniorebis keTili neba, Torem xelisuflebis nabijebi sruliad gansxvavdeba imisgan, rasac iTvaliswinebs 12 punqti.
– Tqven uaryofiTad SeafaseT xelisuflebis qmedebebi am mimarTebiT, Tumca isini acxadeben, rom yvelafers akeTeben evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusis misaRebad. . .
– erTaderTi, rac am punqtebidan met-naklebad Sesrulebulia, es aris saxalxo damcvelis arCeva, romelic opoziciis CarTulobiT airCies. miuxedavad imisa, rom am procesTan dakavSirebiT darCa kiTxvebi, es ukve faqtia. sxva mimarTulebiT aranairi winsvla ar arsebobs. sasamarTloSi yoveldRiurad fesvebs idgams klani, depolarizaciis kanonze midis muSaoba da xelisufleba cdilobs, es kanoni Seexos yvelas, garda ivaniSvilisa, korufciasTan brZolas fasaduri cvlilebebiT cdiloben, aregistrireben rusul kanons, Sesabamisad, me ver vxedav konkretul nabijebs, romlebic exeba 12 punqts da mrCeba gancda, rom xelisufleba yvelafers akeTebs, raTa saqarTvelom kandidatis statusi ar miiRos.
– am bolo dros vxedavT imasac, rom saqarTvelos prezidenti salome zurabiSvili mkacrad akritikebs mmarTvel gunds. es risi maniSnebelia?
– salome zurabiSvili gamocdili diplomatia, kavSirebi aqvs Cvens dasavlel partniorebTan da icis maTi ganwyobebi Cveni xelisuflebisadmi. miuxedavad imisa, rom is valSia `qarTul ocnebasTan~, bolo periodSi ar erideba mis kritikas da sruliad samarTlianadac. misi es bolodroindeli pozicia bevrad ufro sworia, vidre maTi, vinc is prezidentad waradgina, Tumca prezidents kritikis garda aqvs viTarebis gajansaRebis konkretuli SesaZleblobac, vgulisxmob imas, rom qalbatoni prezidenti mkafio unda iyos Tavis nabijebSi da aucileblad unda Seiwyalos nika gvaramia.
– aranakleb mniSvnelovani ambebi xdeba opoziciur velze, zogi riggareSe arCevnebs iTxovs, zogi axal saprotesto aqciebs aanonsebs, Tqvens partias am mxriv ra strategia aqvs arCeuli?
– mgonia, rom riggareSe arCevnebi xelisuflebis TamaSia.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– maJoritaruli sistemiT nebismier arCevnebSi CarTva xelisuflebis wisqvilze asxams wyals, radgan Tavidanve foriT iwyebs moqmedi xelisufleba. Cven vemzadebiT 2024 wlis proporciuli arCevnebisTvis, vmuSaobT yoveldRiur reJimSi, gvaqvs komunikacia mosaxleobasTan, vxsniT raionul ofisebs, vxvdebiT sxvadasxva sferos avtoritetul adamianebs. gvinda, rom arCevnebamde maqsimalurad bevri adamiani SemovikriboT Cveni ideebis garSemo. paralelurad vmuSaobT parlamentsa da sakrebuloebSi. `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ CarTuli iqneba yvela mniSvnelovan politikur procesSi rogorc qveynis SigniT, aseve mis gareT.
– amas winaT Tqveni partiis liderma mamuka xazaraZem ganacxada, rom unda Seiqmnas mZlavri opoziciuri gaerTianeba evropuli kursis dasacavad, gviambeT amis Sesaxeb.
– prodasavlur erTobas mivesalmebiT, Tumca es erToba unda iyos konkretul mizanze orientirebuli, naTlad unda hqondes SemuSavebuli samomavlo gegma, rogor warsdgeba erToba arCevnebze da ase Semdeg. Cven migvaCnia, rom prodasavluri partiebis erTmaneTTan komunikacia aucilebelia, Tumca ra formiT da SinaarsiT warimarTeba es procesi, dro gviCvenebs.
– eqspertebi arc opozicias indoben da acxadeben, rom merabiSvilis da sxva odiozuri politikosebis gamonaTqvamebi xelisuflebis wisqvilze asxams wyals, amaze ras fiqrobT?
– vsaubrobdiT, rom axalgazrdebi ar endobian opoziciur partiebs, axla vsaubrobT vano merabiSvilsa da sxva odiozur figurebze, Sesabamisad, pasuxic zedapirzea – Cven da sazogadoebam naTlad vicodeT, ra kuTxiT pozicionirebs batoni merabiSvili, is gvesaubreba rogorc `nacmoZraobis~ lideri. misi pozicionireba mgonia, rom xelisuflebis wisqvilze asxams wyals. mis politikur warsulze da sxva odiozur pirebze, romlebic Tqven igulisxmeT, saubars ar vapireb.
– `endiaim~ gamoaqveyna gamokiTxva sxvadasxva sakiTxze, erT-erTiT – yovel mexuTes qveynis datoveba surs.
– Tqvens erT-erT SekiTxvaSi TqviT, rom xelisufleba kmayofilia gaweuli samuSaoTi da fiqrobs, rom qveyana swori mimarTulebiT viTardeba, ramdenad Tavsebadia es gamokvlevis SedegebTan? es aris aq mTavari! kargad varT da mainc wasvla unda xalxs sakuTari qveynidan? qveynidan, romelTanac aqvs didi emociuri kavSiri?! cxadia, ar aris kargad. yvelaze mZime racaa, uimedobaa, perspeqtivas ver xedaven Cveni Tanamoqalaqeebi. ekonomikur siduxWirec rom Tavi davaneboT, izRudeba maTi potenciuri SesaZleblobebi, swored esaa imis mizezi, rom gvyavs rekordulad bevri emigranti, am dros ki xelisufleba aduRebul ekonomikaze da sxva miRwevebze gvelaparakeba.
– Cveni qveyana didadaa damokidebuli dasavleTis mxardaWeraze. ra gavlenas moaxdens ukrainis omi saqarTvelos momavalze?
– ukrainis omma ukve mogvca Sansi, rac, samwuxarod, SarSan ver gamoviyeneT, ver gavxdiT kandidatis statusis mqone qveyana. es Sansi jer kidev gvaqvs da es, ra Tqma unda, ukrainis damsaxurebaa. garda amisa, Cven da ukraina msgavs mdgomareobaSi varT karga xania. Cveni teritoriebis nawili okupirebuli aqvs saerTo mters ruseTis saxiT da ukrainis gardauvali gamarjveba am omSi niSnavs yvelaze axlos yofnas deokupaciasTan, aseve – natosa da evrokavSirTan. dRes ukve oficialurad viciT, rom ukrainas, iseve rogorc saqarTvelos, ebrZvis damnaSve putini. maSin, roca es omi dasruldeba da aucileblad gaimarjvebs ukraina, saqarTvelos da qarTvel xalxs Tavisi Rirseuli adgili eqneba msoflios geopolitikur rukaze.
– dabolos, Cven rom ar gavqreT, rogorc qveyana, ra unda gavakeToT?
– xelisuflebas yovelTvis unda vuTxraT, rom Cven Tavs vxedavT dasavleTSi da es ar aris fasaduri, mzad varT SevewiroT Cveni qveynis progresul momavals.

