,,ეს ის წუთებია, როცა სული მზით ივსება”
ლაშა ხომერიკი 593 50 82 69 –
sanimuSo, gamorCeuli Targmanebi – ase afaseben literaturaTmcodneebi darejan danelias mier ucxo enebidan naTargmn leqsebs. qalbatoni darejani Tavadac SesaniSnavi poeti gaxlavT, rac mas, ucxo enebis saucxood flobasa da Cinebul ganaTlebasTan erTad, xels uwyobs, rom saTargmni teqsti, gansakuTrebiT – leqsebi, zedmiwevniT Targmnos avtoris stilisa da poeturi xerxebis gaTavisebiT. amaSi uTuod dagarwmunebT mis mier Targmnili araerTi frangi da rusi poetis leqsebi, romlebic anTologiebSia Setanili, gamoqveynebulia literaturul saitebze
amJamad qalbatoni darejani safrangeTSi cxovrobs da muSaobs – wers leqsebs, Targmnis… SevexmianeT mas, davusviT kiTxvebi da pasuxebi Tavad mogiTxrobT am saintereso Semoqmedis Sesaxeb, imogzaurebT mSvenierebis samyaroSi, sadac naazrevi daferilia gulisa da gonebis sinaTliT.
– gaacaniT Tqveni persona Cveni gazeTis mkiTxvelebs – Tqveni fesvebi, mSobliuri garemo. . .
– me var darejan danelia. mTargmneli, leqsmweri, saqarTvelos ulamazesi kuTxidan – samegrelodan. 1996 wlidan ojaxTan erTad vcxovrob safrangeTSi, qalaq kanSi. saocaria, rac unda mimzidveli iyos aq yofa, guli mainc fesvebisken mimiwevs. mSobliuri garemo mxolod iqaa, im patara sofelSi, sadac Cems ezos dResac amSvenebs bavSvobis Wa – `inWa~. eWvi maqvs, marto Cven – qarTvelebs gvaxasiaTebs aseTi nostalgia. davimowmeb amonarids Cemi adrindeli leqsidan:
`me davbrundebi iqiT, sadac
texura morbis,
iq, sadac mTebi,
mxrebgaSlilni, camde
swvdebian,
sadac siCumes SeZravs mxolod
kivili orbis,
sadac cicabo, miuvali
ferdobebia.
sadac tkivili sxvisiao, aravin
ityvis,
sadac mze, mTvare,
varskvlavebic geferebian,
sadac aragvi gazafxulze
borgavs da ibrZvis,
Semodgomisas mTis kalTebze
ze-ferebia.
an rogor dagTme! rad miRirda
Seni daTmoba,
me vici martom, yvelaferi
vici marto me,
tkivilo Cemo, saocnebo
mSobelo miwav,
me mapatie, saqarTvelov, rom
migatove!~.
– `me poeti var da amiT var saintereso~ – maiakovskis am Sexedulebis Tqveneuli gaazreba. . .
– Cemgan gansxvavebiT, maiakovskis iqneb sruli ufleba hqonda eTqva, me poeti var da amiT var sainteresoo. me mainc mgonia, rom mxolod poetoba araa sakmarisi, saintereso adamiani iyo. socialurma qselebma unikaluri SesaZleblobebi mogvca, rom ufro kargad gagvecno erTmaneTi, vin riTi sunTqavs, ra ainteresebs. mere akeTeb daskvnas, sainteresoa Tu ara es adamiani SenTvis, miuxedavad imisa, rom kargi poetia.
– mogviTxreT Tqvens literaturul saqmianobaze, rogor ekontaqtebiT mkiTxvels, sad aqveynebT, Tqveni auditoria da Tqven.
– gamocemuli maqvs adrindeli leqsebis krebuli `vneba WiqaSi~. dRes sul sxvanairad vwer, magram is mainc miyvars, radgan Cemi pirvelSobilia, Cemi `maxaria~. saqarTvelodan gamgzavrebam sruliad Secvala Cemi cxovreba. mqonda SemoqmedebiTi pauza. mogvianebiT, roca saTqmeli damigrovda, isev mivubrundi leqsebs da Targmanebs. sulmnaTma batonma aleqsandre elerdaSvilma mimiwvia `mTargmnelTa asociaciaSi~. iq gatarebuli periodi yvelaze nayofieri iyo CvenTvis, jgufis wevrebisTvis. misi xelmZRvanelobiT gamoica ramdenime wigni. mere ki, es didebuli adamiani, kovidma moulodnelad xelidan gamogvacala. . . periodulad vmonawileob onlainsaRamoebSi, metwilad ki Cemi auditoria socialur qselSi myavs, romlis dros da gemovnebas Zalian vufrTxildebi, zedmetad arasodes vawuxeb. axlo momavalSi vapireb Cemi leqsebisa Targmanebis erT wignad gamocemas.
– rogorc warmatebul mTargmnels, saTqmelic dagigrovdaT albaT. vis TargmniT axla da apirebT momavalSi?
– ramdenad warmatebuli mTargmneli var, amas dro gviCvenebs. Cems saTqmels Cemi TargmanebiT gadmovcem, radgan virCev iseT leqsebsa da avtorebs, romlebic Cems sulTan axlos arian. CemTvis umniSvnelovanesia, Targmnisas ar davkargo avtori, SeZlebisdagvarad, maqsimaluri sizustiT gadmovitano leqsi, davicva dedanis ritmi, riTma, saTqmeli. . . naTargmni maqvs giiom apolineri, bodleri, hiugo, preveri, pol verleni, fonteni, mopasani, lamartini, Jiul verni, emil verharni. . . balmonti, bloki, lermontovi, tiutCevi, cvetaeva, petrarka, Cinuri, belorusuli da Turquli poezia. axla siuli priudomis `Sexvedraze~ vmuSaob. momavlis gegmebi? adre daviwye `vefxistyaosnis~ Targmna rusul enaze. verc gavbedavdi, magram roca Cemma megobrebma (sakmaod avtoritetulma adamianebma) naxes ramdenime strofi, Semagulianes da mec gavagrZele. samwuxarod, am bolo drois movlenebma xalisi damikarga da gadavde. imedia, erT dRes mivubrundebi. . .
– leqsebi, rogorc sulis biografia – am Sexedulebas emxrobiT? SeZeliT sakuTari `mes~ realizeba, rogorc gewadaT da realuri Tu gamonagoni rogor dominirebs Tqvens poeziaSi?
– ZiriTadad, leqsebi sulis biografiaa. Tumca, xSirad xdeba, roca realuri garemo ocnebebs frTebs aWris. poets ki frTebi sWirdeba. esaa mizezi, Tu ratom viwyebT mogonil samyaroSi mogzaurobas. vigonebT, vijerebT, vwerT. rac Seexeba sakuTari `mes~ realizebas, vityodi – met-naklebad. ufro metis gakeTeba SemeZlo da survilic mqonda, magram cxovrebas Tavisi kanonebi aqvs, romelsac zogjer vemorCilebiT.
– rogor iwyeba dila qalaqSi, sadac axla cxovrobT? Tqveni erTi dRe.
– Cemi qalaqi, miuxedavad imisa, rom pataraa, msoflioSi cnobilia Tavisi festivaliT da kongresebiT. is mudam turistebiTaa savse. Cemi erTi dRe raime gansakuTrebulobiT ar gamoirCeva. dila iwyeba zRvaze gaseirnebiT. sanapiroze dilis yaviT da kruasaniT. es is wamebia, roca suli mziT ivseba da iq rac ufro meti mzea, miT ufro kaSkaSa da mravalferovania garemo. zixar, akvirdebi moseirneTa uzrunvel saxeebs da gaoreba gWirs, Tan gixaria, Tan sevda geZaleba, radgan fiqrebi yovel jerze soxumSi gabrunebs. rogor hgavs aqauroba Cvens lamaz qalaqs, sadac, iyo dro, bednierebi, laRad davseirnobdiT. . . amonaridi Cemi leqsidan:
`eh, mainc, am samoTxeSi,
guls kawravs faruli sevda,
da erTi Rrma amoxvneSiT. . .
da saubedurod Cvenda
vixseneb dakargul zecas,
gaqceul Toliebs cidan,
TiTqos dRes ZaZebi ecvas,
napirs, miviwyebuls
RvTisgan. . .
hoi, ra sicocxle duRda,
an ra siyvaruli enTo,
im zRvis sxva surneli, Tundac
erTxel magrZnobine RmerTo.
dRes miwevs vumtkico mavans,
– mec mqonda aseTi zeca,
manamde, sanam Cvens havans,
ca miwad ar Camoeqca.
dro iyo, Cvenc gvqonda es ca,
aseTi walkotic gvqonda,
zogjer bednieri zeca,
TeTri fantelebiT Tovda. . .~.
SemiZlia saaTobiT vijde sanapiroze, vusmino talRebis xmaurs, Tvali vadevno mzis Casvlas, zogjer, SeiZleba, iqve ramec `Semomeweros~. . . danarCeni dro megobrebTan urTierTobebs, leqsebs, Targmanebs, ojaxur wvrilmanebs eTmoba. ar SemiZlia ar aRvniSno damRleli franguli biurokratia usasrulo werilebiT, romlebic pasuxebs iTxoven da dros marTmeven.
– ucxoeTis cis qveS ra gancdebi geuflebaT, rogor grZnobT Tavs, emigrantebTan urTierToba, qarTuli diaspora. . .
– SemiZlia gulaxdilad vTqva, rom pirvelive dRidan TiTqos mSobliur garemoSi movxvdi. miuxedavad imisa, rom `Cemi ena~ germanuli iyo da franguli enis codna ramdenime sityviT Semoifargleboda, mainc, saocrad komfortuli garemo damxvda. aq, am koxta qalaqSi, kidev erTxel davrwmundi, rom Rimils sarkis efeqti aqvs. am laR xalxTan urTierTobis survilma saswrafod enis swavlis survili gamiaTmaga. erT istorias gavixseneb, romelmac im saRamosve leqsi damawerina: erTxel, xalxiT savse kafes vestumre. patara magidasTan movkalaTdi da yava SevukveTe. uceb, Zalian saintereso babus movkari Tvali, adgils eZebda. momiaxlovda da Camojdomis neba mTxova. aqcentiT mixvda, rom frangi ar viyavi da erTaderTi kiTxva damisva, saidan xarTo. dResac ver vxvdebi, frTebi ram Semasxa. . . rom daviwye, sivrcesa da droSi davikarge. . . gons rom movege, srul siCumeSi taSma iquxa. . . Turme uamravi adamiani mismenda. saxeaalebuli, reveransiT davemSvidobe auditorias da gareT `gamovfrindi~. im leqsis mxolod finals SemogTavazebT:
`guli siamayiT yelSi
mombjenia,
vatyob, rom davfrinav, miwaze
ver vdgebi,
– arvis adardebso, – msmenia,
mtkenia,
– Seni saqarTvelo,
`fesvebi~… `nergebi~. . .
rac Seexeba emigrantebTan urTierTobas, aq qarTvelebi Zalian cotani arian da regionSi diasporazec araferi msmenia.
– qriste hyavs gulSi – ase bevrze gifiqriaT Tu piriqiT? Tqvens garSemo myofi adamianebi da Tqven. . . megobrebi, mtrebi moCanan?
– Cemi cxovrebis gza bevr karg adamianTan gadakveTila, magram danamdvilebiT vici, rom qriste gulSi mamaCems hyavda. imaves vityvi Cems venera-dedaze. gulSi qriste rom ar hyoloda, sakuTari SvilebiviT rogor gagvzrdida oTx obol bavSvs? dRes kidev erTi adamiani aRmovaCine, visac, mgoni, marTla `qriste hyavs gulSi~ da es xviCa kvaracxeliaa. ufals vficav, ar vtyui, marTla mjera, rasac vwer. am axalgazrdas marTla `qriste hyavs gulSi~. . . Cems garSemo marto im adamianTa (megobarTa) viwro wrea, visTanac komfortulad vgrZnob Tavs da maTac abednierebT es urTierToba. mtrebi? mtrebis amocnoba vera da ver viswavle, ramac bevrjer mavno. . . zogjer mimarTlebs, droulad iSifrebian.
– piradi sivrce – ras niSnavs es TqvenTvis?
– piradi sivrce CemTvis yvelaferia. aravis aqvs ufleba iq SemoiWras. is sakuTar TavTad marto darCenis da saubris droa, romelic yvela adamians sWirdeba.
– `me~ Tu `Cven?~ sakuTar Tavs rogor eqceviT, ra dros uTmobT?
– saWiroebis mixedviT. adre ufro `Cven~ viyavi, axla vcdilob, `me~ viyo. albaT, imitom, rom `Cvenma~ bevrjer imedi gamicrua. da, mainc, Tu saWiroa `me~ wamSi maviwydeba. radgan xasiaTiT ufro `Cven~ var.
– ena dedaa erisa – aqvs dRes es qarTvels gaTavisebuli? CvenSi sWarbobs skarbezuli metyveleba. am mxriv ra SegiZliaT gviTxraT maqaurobaze dakvirvebiT, rogor metyveleben rigiTi moqalaqeebi, axalgazrdebi, Tundac quCebSi?
– `ra ena waxdes, eric daeceso~, – uTqvams grigol orbelians da marTlac rom udidesi sibrZnea am sityvebSi Cadebuli, radgan eris arsebobis erT-erTi niSani enacaa. es dRes ise aqtualuria, rogorc, albaT, arasdros. mgonia, Cveni Taoba am problemis mimarT ufro mgrZnobiarea. samwuxarod, axalgazrdebze verafers vityvi, radgan Sors var, Tumca socqselebSi xSirad mxvdeba maswavlebelTa SeSfoTebuli werilebi. Tu marTla seriozuli problemebi arsebobs, ra Tqma unda, ganaTlebis saministrom droulad unda mixedos am saqveyno saqmes. aq, safrangeTSi, axalgazrdebis metyvelebaze didi gavlena moaxdina arabulma samyarom da samwuxarod, skabrezi uxvadaa. Tumca, Cvengan gansxvavebiT, barbarizms naklebad iyeneben.
– ra azris xarT Tanamedrove konkursebsa da festivalebze, jildoebsa da wodebebze?
– mtkivneuli Temaa. vinc saqarTveloSia, mas ukeT moexseneba, ra xdeba konkursebze, rogor aniWeben jildoebs da wodebebs. me Sors var am yvelafrisgan, Cems nervul sistemas vufrTxildebi.
– daasaxeleT wigni, romelic Tqveni mudmivi masazrdoebeli da maswavlebelia.
– aseTi Zalian bevria, magram iqneb gagikvirdeT da me natifi grZnobebiT daxunZlul nawarmoebs `patara ufliswuls~ gamovarCevdi. Cven yvelani Cveni bavSvobidan movdivarT da yvelani ukan dabrunebas veswrafviT. patara ufliswuli ki im samoTxeSi gvabrunebs: `mxolod guli xedavs kargad, Tvals ar ZaluZs dainaxos is, rac mTavaria da arsebiTi~; `Sen valdebuli xar izruno imaze, vinc moiSinaure~; `bednierebis gasaRebi sakuTari TavisTvis drois gamonaxvaa~; `ar dagaviwydes, isiamovno sakuTari cxovrebiT, miiRe da gamoiyene yoveli wuTi~ da mravali sxva.
– zRapris romeli gmiris gacocxlebas inatrebdiT da ratom?
– miuxedavad imisa, rom nacars qeqavda, dRes Zalian gvWirdeba masaviT moxerxebuli, gamWriaxi, moqnili personaJi. devi gvyavs dasamarcxebeli.
– fiqroben, rom kiTxvis dasma advilia, pasuxia Zneli da mTavari. rogor fiqrobT da axla ra SekiTxvas dausvamT sakuTar Tavs?
– diax, egrea. kiTxvis dasma ufro advilia, pasuxi ki met pasuxismgeblobas iTxovs. Cems Tavs vkiTxavdi, Tu vis vumadli cxovrebaSi yvelaze metad? upirvelesad, mSoblebs, radgan, miuxedavad imisa, rom mesamec gogo gavCndi, didi siyvaruliT da zar-zeimiT mimiRes. mere Cems venera dedikos, romelmac oTxi oboli bavSvi Tavisi kalTis qveS SegviyuJa da civ niavs ar gvakarebda. dabolos, Cems ukeTilSobiles meuRles, romelmac usayvarlesi gogo maCuqa da dRemde yvelafers akeTebs, bednieri rom viyo. es is adamiania, vinc mudam mzadaa upirobod da uangarod, nebismier dros mxarSi amoudges nacnobs Tu ucnobs. xarobs sxvisi sikeTiT da bednierebiT, es ki CemTvis Zalian Rirebuli Tvisebaa.
– aforizmi an andaza, romelic mudam gaxsendebaT da Tqveni Tanamgzavria.
– bavSvobidan Cemi Tanamgzavri mamaCemis sityvebia – `rac ar unda giWirdes, arasdros danebde~.
– `adamianebo, iyaviT fxizlad~ – es mowodeba am etapze da momavalSi rogor gesaxebaT?
– dRes ise gvWirdeba sifxizle, rogorc arasdros da ara mgonia, vcdebode. maoceben ugunuri adamianebi, romlebsac elementaruli analizis unari daukargavT da ver xvdebian, ra saSiSroebis winaSe dgas dedamiwa. momavalSi? eg aravin icis, iqneb yvelani samoTxis binadarni gavxdeT da sifxizlec zedmet tvirTad CavTvaloT. . .
– Tqven axla esaubrebiT gazeT `aWaris~ mkiTxvelebs. rogor daasrulebdiT am intervius, ras etyodiT maT, rogor SeexmianebodiT?
– upirveles yovlisa, minda madloba gadavuxado yvelas, vinc Cemi pirovnebiT dainteresda. bednieri var, rom momeca unikaluri SesaZlebloba, met-naklebad warmedgina gazeT `aWaris~ mkiTxvelisTvis, Tu vin aris SoreTs gadaxvewili darejan danelia. me, rogorc xmelTaSua zRvis droebiTma binadarma, Tqven – Savi zRvis mkvidrebi minda dagarwmunoT, rom aWara arafriT Camouvardeba safrangeTis `laJvardovan sanapiros~ – arc istoriiT, arc kulturiT, arc urTierTobebiT, arc mTebisa da zRvis silamaziT. giyvardeT, moefereT da daicaviT es uflis nakurTxi miwa!
