,,პოლიტიკოსები მუდმივად მზად უნდა ვიყოთ ნებისმიერი გამოწვევისთვის”
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saqarTvelo mravali gamowvevisa da problemebis winaSea – polarizebuli politikuri garemo, arasaxarbielo ekonomikuri mdgomareoba, urTierTdapirispireba mmarTvel partiasa da opozicias Soris da ruseTis agresiuli qmedebebi postsabWoTa sivrceSi. ruseT-ukrainis omma mTeli civilizebuli samyaro mesame msoflio omis winaSe daayena
raki Cveni qveyana zesaxelmwifoTa interesebis sferoSia, dasavleTi saqarTvelos gamTlianebisa da keTildReobisTvis iRvwis, evropeli liderebis mier kandidatis statusis savaraudo miniWebaze gakeTebuli gancxadebebi swored amas cxadyofs. Tavis mxriv, ruseTi yvelanairad cdilobs Cveni evropuli kursis Seferxebas. yvelaferi mainc Cvenzea damokidebuli, Tu sabediswero Secdomebs ar davuSvebT da, aseve, ar gavamZafrebT polarizebul politikur garemos, maSin, figuralurad rom vTqvaT, `kari samoTxisani~ gaixsneba, anu ufro metad davuaxlovdebiT evroatlantikur struqturebs. jerjerobiT, opoziciasa da mmarTvel partias Soris mZafri urTierTdapirispirebaa. Cndeba kiTxvebi, romlebiTac amjerad `strategia aRmaSeneblis~ aWaris organizaciis xelmZRvanel beqa diasamiZes mivmarTeT.
– vidre bolodroindel movlenebze visaubrebdeT, sainteresoa, rogor SeafasebT qveyanaSi arsebul viTarebas?
– `qarTulma ocnebam~ srulad, ukanonod miiTvisa Zalauflebac da qveyanac. aRar gvekiTxeba, xalxs ra gvsurs da ra – ara. saqarTvelo gaxades ruseTis ukana ezo. 7-9 martis aqciebi reaqcia iyo mimdinare procesebze. rigiTma moqalaqeebma vaCveneT xelisuflebas, rom qveyanaSi damkveTi xalxia, xolo Cveni nebis Semsruleblebi isini arian da ara piriqiT. saqarTvelos mosaxleobam morig jerze Sin da gareTac, yvelas daumtkica, rom Tavisuflebis moyvaruli xalxi varT, vimsaxurebT am Tavisuflebas da rom Cveni arCevani evroatlantikur struqturebSi gawevrianebaa, romelsac aseve, vimsaxurebT.
– opozicia rom ukmayofiloa xelisuflebis saqmianobiT, araxalia, Tumca mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom qveyana Tanmimdevrulad viTardeba. opoziciis SeniSvnebi ramdenad argumentirebulia?
– opoziciis ukmayofileba imaSi gamoixateba, rom Sansi, romelic dRes qveyanas gauCnda, saukuneSi erTxel gveZleva da swored am istoriul momentSi qveynis saTaveSi rusuli xelisufleba gvyavs, romelsac ar surs saqarTvelo evrointegraciis kuTxiT waiyvanos. asrulebs ruseTis moRalateobriv davalebebs da saSviliSvilod ukargavs sakuTar moqalaqeebs ganviTarebis perspeqtivas. bunebrivia, aseT mdgomareobaSi `ukmayofileba~ kidev rbilad aris naTqvami imasTan SedarebiT, rasac xalxi opoziciasTan erTad ganvicdiT.
– mmarTveli partia imasac acxadebs, rom opoziciis nawili qveyanaSi destabilizacias gegmavs. amaze Tundac Tqvens koalicias ra pasuxi aqvs, Tqvens pozicias Tu acnobT evropel partniorebs am mimarTebiT?
– rac Cveni mosaxleobis 80 procents surs, imas ewinaaRmdegeba `qarTuli ocneba~ da Tqven Tavad SeafaseT, vin vis uwyobs destabilizacias. konstituciaSi gaweril principebs Tu ar asrulebs xelisufleba da cdilobs, xalxis xeliT gadacemuli Zalaufleba miitacos, moqalaqeebs aqvT konstituciuri ufleba, quCaSi gamovidnen da sakuTari neba aRasrulon. am process Tu negatiur Sefasebas aZlevs dRes mmarTveli Zala, es maTi problemaa da Tan droebiTi movlena, iseve, rogorc maTi qveynis saTaveSi yofna, radgan istoria axlo momavalSi yvelafers Tavis samarTlian saxels daarqmevs da yvelafers sakuTar adgils miuCens. Cvens evropel megobrebs amis Taobaze, bunebrivia, vesaubrebiT. aqciebiT maTTvisac TvalnaTeli gaxda, sad xedaven saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi sakuTar momavals – ruseTSi Tu evrokavSirSi.
– rogorc cnobilia, opoziciis nawilma (`nacmoZraoba~, `leiboristebi~. . .) riggareSe arCevnebis sakiTxi daayena da 9 aprilis aqciac daaanonsa. am mxriv opozicia ramdenad SeTanxmebulia? da aqve Tanmdevi kiTxva: Tqveni partia Tu miiRebs am aqciaSi monawileobas da ra sakiTxebi iqneba wamoWrili am mimarTebiT?
– mimaCnia, rom istoriuli procesebi dros moaqvs. momentumisTvis saWiroa Seiqmnas misTvis keTilganwyobili garemo. Cven, politikosebi, mudmivad mzad unda viyoT nebismieri gamowvevebisTvis, maT Soris, vadamdeli arCevnebisTvis. metic, yvelaferi, rac Cvenzea damokidebuli, unda gavakeToT imisTvis, rom miviRoT xalxis sasurveli Sedegi. `strategia aRmaSenebeli~ yovelTvis idga da idgeba iq, sadac saqarTvelos evropuli momavalia da amisTvis vibrZolebT parlamentSic da quCaSic – aqciebze.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, rom opozicia fragmentirebulia, rasac emateba `nacmoZraobaSi~ Seqmnili arajansaRi viTareba, saubroben aseve partiaze merabiSvilis farul gavlenaze. garda amisa, partia datova xatia dekanoiZem. . .
– nebismieri politikuri partia cocxali organizmia, romelic mudmiv cvlilebas ganicdis, aqvs warmatebebi da warumatebloba. partiaSi gaerTianebul pirebs ufleba aqvT, damoukideblad miiRon gadawyvetileba, politikur procesSi sakuTari Tavi dainaxon. rac Seexeba fragmentulobas, dasavluri Rirebulebebis mqone opoziciuri partiebi ZiriTad sakiTxebSi vTanxmdebiT, magram rogorc drom da situaciam gviCvena, detalebSic saWiroa SeTanxmeba da, vfiqrob, aq bevri samuSao gvaqvs.
– sxvaTa Soris, amas winaT parlamentarma Tako Carkvianma ganacxada, rom yofili premier-ministri gilauri axal partias qmnis ivaniSvilis TanxmobiT da masSi, savaraudod, melia da dekanoiZe gaerTiandebian. msgavsi opoziciuri urTierTbraldebebi risi maniSnebelia?
– batonma gilaurma socialur qselSi gaakeTa sajaro gancxadeba da uaryo, rom axlo momavalSi politikaSi dabrunebas an axali partiis Seqmnas gegmavs. vfiqrob, amiT pasuxi gasca im kiTxvebs, romlebic Tako Carkvianis gancxadebas mohyva. rac Seexeba motivacias, Tu ratom xdeba periodulad opozicionerebisgan msgavsi sakiTxebis wamoweva, mizezi bolos ganviTarebul movlenebSi unda davinaxoT. `qarTulma ocnebam~ dakarga moraluri ufleba, iyos xelisuflebaSi. ivaniSvili, roca dasWirdeba, Teoriulad da realuradac ecdeba alternatiuli Zalis Seqmnas, romelic, savaraudod, mkveTrad gaemijneba im kurss, rac mmarTvel Zalas aqvs. Sesabamisad, Cndeba garkveuli eWvebi am mimarTulebiT, es logikuria, magram konkretuli pirebis mimarT Tu gaCnda kiTxvebi, ubralo gancxadebis garda, upriani iqneba ufro wonadi faqtebis moyvana, rac qarTul politikaSi sxva politikuri standartebis dawesebas iTvaliswinebs.
– mZafri azrTa sxvaobaa opoziciasa da mmarTvel partias Soris evrokavSiris 12 punqtis SesrulebasTan dakavSirebiT. am mxriv ra mocemulobaa?
– unda aRvniSnoT, rom gansxvaveba opoziciasa da pozicias Soris saqarTvelos momavalTan dakavSirebuli xedvaa, romelic Rirebulebebze gadis. moqmed xelisuflebas, ianukoviCiviT, ar surs evrokavSiris struqturebSi saqarTvelos gawevrianeba da boikots ucxadebs am process. metic, yvelafers akeTebs, rom Tavad evropam gviTxras gawevrianebaze uari. es aris sabotaJi qarTuli saxelmwifos mimarT. amitom ara marto Sinaarsobrivi, aramed RirebulebiTi gansxvavebebi gvaqvs `qarTul ocnebasTan~ 12 punqtis SesrulebasTan dakavSirebiT. aqedan gamomdinare, maTTan molaparakeba am 12 punqtis Cagdebas gulisxmobs.
– xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi acxadeben, rom evrokavSiris praqtikulad yvela valdebuleba kandidatis statusis miRebasTan dakavSirebiT, Seasrules da opoziciis braldebebi usafuZvloa. . .
– 12 punqti evrostruqturebis mowodebulia da, bunebrivia, Sesrulebis Tvisobrioba maTi Sesafasebelia. da ra gvesmis Cveni strategiuli partniorebisgan? is, rom evrokavSiris warmodgenili punqtebis Sesruleba fiqtiuria da ara – faqtiuri, anu, martiv enaze rom vTqvaT, `qarTuli ocneba~ aRebul valdebulebebs asrulebs ara saqmiT, aramed qaRaldze. Tqven rom brZandebodeT evrokomisiaSi gadawyvetilebis mimRebi piri, am situaciaSi CauTvlidiT romelime qveyanas wardgenili moTxovnebis Sesrulebas damakmayofileblad? es xom Tavis motyueba iqneboda Tqveni mxridan?
– aranakleb mniSvnelovan sakiTxze msurs Tqveni yuradRebis gamaxvileba – saqarTvelos prezidenti mkacrad akritikebs mmarTvel partias. sxvaTa Soris, mamuka mdinaraZem aRiara, rom maT zurabiSvilis arCevisas Zala ar daiSures. es risi maniSnebelia?
– ki, asea, `qarTulma ocnebam~ yvelaferi gaakeTa, salome zurabiSvili saqarTvelos prezidenti rom gamxdariyo, magram, rogorc vxedavT, prezidenti ar apirebs, Cahyves politikur samareSi `qarTul ocnebasa~ da irakli kobaxiZes. ar apirebs, uRalatos saqarTvelos evropul momavals, rac misasalmebelia, magram kargi iqneba, Tu qalbatoni salome, gancxadebebis garda, sakuTari uflebamosilebis farglebSi konkretul qmedebebzec gadava.
– vxedavT imasac, rom partiebi, garkveulwilad, samomavlo arCevnebisTvis emzadebian, calke trio (`droa~, `girCi~ da `strategia aRmaSenebeli~), calke – `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~, aqtiurobs `nacmoZraobac~. am mxriv opoziciur speqtrs ra resursi aqvs xelisuflebasTan sapaeqrod?
– bunebrivia, yvela partias calke, damoukideblad sakuTari dRis wesrigi aqvs, magram vfiqrob, arCevnebisTvis dasavleTis Rirebulebebis mqone partiebis erTianobas alternativa ar gaaCnia, Tu rusuli xelisuflebis damarcxeba gvinda.
– axali saxalxo damcvelis saqmianobas rogor SeafasebT?
– marTalia, didi xani ar aris, rac axal saxalxo damcvels mxari dauWira parlamentma, magram am mokle periodSi Zalian bevri mniSvnelovani movlena moxda, romelic saxalxo damcvelisgan swraf reagirebas moiTxovda. ombudsmenis reaqcia xSir SemTxvevaSi dagvianebulia da principuloba namdvilad aklia. danarCens dro gviCvenebs.
– ganvlilma arCevnebma cxadyo, rom amomrCevlis daaxloebiT 50 procenti arCevnebze ar midis. am kuTxiT opoziciis saqmianobas rogor SeafasebdiT?
– opozicia eleqtoraluri mimarTulebiT bevrs muSaobs, magram faqtia, rom kidev bevria gasakeTebeli. mosaxleobas unda vaCvenoT, rom TiToeuli moqalaqis xma gadamwyveti da mniSvnelovania qveynis momavlisTvis. Tu gvinda evropa, ufro meti aqtiuroba gvmarTebs yvelas.
– rogorc gacxadda, Tqveni partia uaxloes momavalSi mosaxleobas sxvadasxva sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT qveynis ganviTarebis strategias SesTavazebs. . .
– `strategia aRmaSeneblis~ eqspertul jgufebSi mudmivad muSaoben qveyanaSi arsebuli problemebis (politikuri, ekonomikuri, socialuri) mogvarebaze. ubralod, Cvenda samwuxarod, `qarTuli ocnebis~ pirobebSi gvixdeba saubari mxolod 12-punqtiani gegmis Sesrulebaze da ara konkretuli moqalaqeebis konkretul problemebze. uaxloes momavalSi aucileblad warvadgenT qveynis ganviTarebis Cveneul gegmas.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT: haagis sasamarTlom putinis dapatimrebis orderi gasca, anu msofliom ganaCeni gamoutana mas?
– diax, namdvilad. am nabijiT koleqtiurma dasavleTma daanaxa msoflios, rom bavSvebis gamtaceblebTan molaparakebis perspeqtivas ver xedavs, samxedro damnaSavesTan saubars ar apirebs da Tu ruseTs survili eqneba ukrainaSi omi SeaCeros, maSin jer putinis problema unda moagvaros.
– dabolos, Cveni qveyana da ukraina damokidebuli arian dasavleTis mxardaWeraze. ra gavlena eqneba ukrainis oms saqarTvelos momavalze?
– ukrainis omSi gamarjveba ara marto Cvenze imoqmedebs, aramed msoflios, gansakuTrebiT ki evropis usafrTxoebis axali arqiteqturis Seqmnis safuZveli gaxdeba. msoflio ar iqneba iseTi, rogoric 2022 wlis 24 Tebervlamde iyo. bevri ram Seicvleba saqarTveloSic, minimum, adgilobriv prorusul Zalebs, romlebic Cveni qveynis ganviTarebas aqtiurad uSlian xels, safuZveli gamoeclebaT.
