,,კრემლი ასოცირდება არა მხოლოდ გენოციდთან, არამედ ეკოციდთანაც…”
ლაშა ხომერიკი 27 48 93 –
dRes ukrainaSi itesteba msoflios amJamindeli geopolitikuri sistemis mdgradoba. erT welze metia, damangrevel oms vuyurebT ukrainaSi, rusi samxedroebi, ufro sworad, Tanamedrove faSistebi xocaven udanaSaulo qalebs, bavSvebs, moxucebs. dRe ar gava, umZimesi tragediis Sesaxeb ar gavigoT, iavarqmnilia qalaqebi da soflebi, aTiaTasobiT daxocili da asiaTasobiT daWrilia, rasac daemata amas winaT rusebis mier kaxovkis eleqtrosadguris afeTqeba, rac imas niSnavs, rom kremlis mTavari amocanaa ukrainis rogorc saxelmwifos gaqroba. miuxedavad ruseTis zemoaRniSnuli qmedebebisa, ukrainam SeZlo ara mxolod gamklaveboda maT armias, aramed gaaTavisufla dapyrobili teritoriebis nawili da kontrSetevazec gadavida TviT ruseTis teritoriazec – belgorodSi proukrainuli Zalebis reidi amis mkafio magaliTia. . . am fonze aqtiurdeba dnestrispireTis gaTavisuflebis da, aseve, saqarTvelosTvis kandidatis statusis miniWebis sakiTxic. am da sxva mniSvnelovan sakiTxebze gvesaubreba saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis specialisti, saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv saqmeTa institutis profesori giorgi koberiZe.
– batono giorgi, eqspertebi acxadeben, rom dRes ukrainaSi wydeba, garkveulwilad, evropis bedi, itesteba Tu ara ruseT-ukrainis omSi msoflios marTlwesrigis konturebi?
– sabWoTa kavSiris daSlisTanave, ruseTisTvis miuRebeli iyo arsebuli saerTaSoriso samarTlebrivi wesrigi, romelSic patara erebs, Tundac yofili koloniebi yofiliyvnen isini, miecemodaT sagareo Tu saSinao politikis damoukideblad gansazRvris ufleba. kremls surda, ruseTis imperiis yofili koloniebi da sabWoTa kavSiris periodSi arsebuli gavlenis sferoebi SeenarCunebina manam, sanam sakmaod Zlieri ar gaxdeboda da ar aRadgenda maTze srul batonobas. amisaTvis qmnida jer lokalur eTnokonfliqtebs da Semdgom ereoda iq. 90-ian wlebSi ruseTis mxridan organizebuli eTnokonfliqtebis formireba saqarTvelosac Seexo, moldovasac da azerbaijansac, xolo ukrainaSi cota ufro meti samuSao iyo gasawevi yirimis asamuSaveblad. mTeli es procesebi, maT Soris, saqarTveloSi ruseTis SemoWra 2008 wels, didi saWadrako partiis erTi mniSvnelovani nawili iyo, rasac saerTaSoriso wesrigisadmi ndobis dakargva unda mohyoloda, sadac omebi, dapyrobebi da patara erebis damorCileba Cveul ambad dabrundeboda. maSin amas dasavleTSi kargad ver mixvdnen, radgan rTulad ejerebodaT, rom iarsebebda Zala, romelic imoqmedebda mecxramete saukuneSi arsebuli imperiuli msoflmxedvelobiT. amitomac gauvida ruseTs agresia saqarTveloSi da 2014 wels – ukrainaSi. magram 2022 wels, rodesac ruseTma CaTvala, rom SeeZlo exoca mSvidobiani mosaxleoba CeCneTSi, siriaSi, saqarTvelosa da ukrainaSi ise, rom amaze pasuxs aravin mosTxovda, SeeZlo snaiperebi Seeyvana minskSi da demonstraciebi CaexSo yazaxeTSi, SeeZlo ekarnaxa dRis wesrigi somxeTsa da azerbaijanSi yarabaRTan dakavSirebiT da sxva – gadawyvita srulad daemxro arsebuli saerTaSoriso wesrigi da daebrunebina yoveldRiurobaSi dapyrobiTi omebi. es ki man ukrainaSi daiwyo. swored amitomaa, rom axla misi SeCereba strategiulad mniSnelovania rogorc CvenTvis, ise danarCeni msofliosaTvis, maT Soris, im agresiuli reJimebisaTvis, romlebic rukaze sakuTar Zvel imperiebs uyureben xolme da xelebs ifSvneten, rodis Seicvleba arsebuli samarTlebrivi wesrigi da dabrundeba Zveli.
– TiTqmis weliwad-naxevaria, rac ukrainaSi omi mimdinareobs, axla omis ra fazaa?
– ukrainuli kontrSeteva daiwyo. rusuli armiis mxridan SeteviTi potenciali imdenad daqveiTda da ukrainelebma, saerTaSoriso partniorebTan erTad, es dro imdenad efeqturad gamoiyenes, rom ZalTa balansi aRaraa amdenad gansxvavebuli. axla ukrainas SeuZlia damajereblad gadavides Setevaze ara erTi, aramed ramdenime mimarTulebiT erTad. romeli iqneba ZiriTadi samizne, rTuli saTqmelia, magram aSkaraa, ramdenime dartymas vixilavT Cven.
– ruseTis saokupacio jarma kaxovkis eleqtrosadguri aafeTqa, es risi maniSnebelia da ukrainelTa kontrSetevas ramdenad Seaferxebs?
– ruseTi mimarTavs terorizms, raTa daamyaros terori da SiSi ara mxolod ukrainaSi, aramed danarCen civilizebul msoflioSi. kaxovkis kaSxlis afeTqeba iyo signali, rom is yvelaferzea wamsvleli, es ki kremlisaTvis kontrproduqtiuli iqneba – masTan molaparakebis magidasTan rTuladRa dajdeba vinme. kremli asocirdeba ara mxolod genocidTan, aramed ekocidTanac – bunebis masobriv da mizanmimarTul ganadgurebasTan. rac Seexeba kontrSetevas, cxadia, mdinare dnepris gadalaxva kaxovka-xersonis monakveTze, am etapze Zalian rTul amocanad iqca ukrainelTaTvis, magram grZelvadianad mas sxva efeqtic aqvs – rusebma Tavisive fortifikaciebi da danaRmuli sanapiroc daazianes, romelsac ramdnime Tve agebdnen. amitom, SeiZleba iTqvas, sakuTari Tavdacvis pirveli xazi am afeTqebiT Tavad gaaneitrales. magram rusebis mxridan sxva gaTvla iyo, vidre pirveli xazis usafrTxoeba – isini ukrainelTa Setevis mogeriebas cdiloben zaporiJies olqSi. dasvenebuli da Tavisufali danayofebi swored xersonis olqSi, mdinaris sanapiroze hyavdaT maT. axla miecaT saSualeba, am adgilidan moexsnaT danayofebi da gadaesrolaT ukrainuli kontrSetevis SesaCereblad zaporiJies olqis mTel perimetrze, da Tan es gaakeTes ise, rom ukrainelebi mdinare dnepris gadalaxvas Zalian rTuladRa SeZleben.
– ukrainis kontrSeteva rom Cavardes, movlenebis ra ganviTarebas elodebiT?
– gaaCnia scenars. Tuki ukrainelebma rusebis Tavdacvis pirveli xazi mainc gaarRvies da imdenad miuaxlovdnen ruseTis mier okupirebul did qalaqebs, rom yvela mZlavri artileria miswvda maT, maSin es iqneba mcire taqtikuri winsvla, magram strategiuli TvalsazrisiT – warmatebac ki, radgan permanentuli saartilerio dartymebis qveS myofi saokupacio Zalebi didi xniT veRar gaZleben ama Tu im poziciaze da kidev ufro Rrmad mouwevT gadajgufeba. rodesac ukrainelebi imdenad miuaxlovdnen xersons, rom, praqtikulad, yvela rusuli danayofi ukrainuli Wurvebisa da raketebis dartymis qveS aRmoCnda, evakuaciis garda sxva gza aRarc hqondaT darCenili. magram Tuki yvelaze cud scenars warmovidgenT, romelSic ukrainelebi vercerT Tavdacvis zRudes ver gaarRveven, maSin situacia ara mxolod samxedro TvalsazrisiT garTuldeba, aramed politikuradac. dasavleTSi ukrainisagan garkveul Sedegebs elian. Tuki am Sedegebis miRweva ver moxerxda, maT mouwevT an yvela saxis SeiaraRebis uwyvetad miwodeba da ukidures SemTxvevaSi uSualod CarTvaze fiqric ki (Tundac farTo masStabiT, moxaliseebis rigebSi), an konfliqtis imgvar deeskalaciaze fiqri, romelic ukrainis interesebs srulad ver moergeba. meore variantis albaToba am etapze naklebia, miT ufro rusuli danaSaulebebis fonze, amitom eskalaciis SesaZlebloba moimatebs. maRalia albaToba, rom ukrainelTa daxmareba kidev ufro gaizrdeba dasavleTis mxridan, magram amis katalizatori piriqiT, ukrainelTa warmateba iqneba da ara warumatebloba.
– Tu ukrainelTa kontrSeteva warmatebuli gamodga, anu gaTavisuflda doneckis regioni srulad anda yirimi, ramdenad mosalodnelia, ruseTma taqtikuri birTvuli iaraRi gamoiyenos da, am SemTxvevaSi, rogori iqneba dasavleTis pozicia?
– mocemul etapze, warmateba iqneba, Tuki zaporoJieSi – melitopoli an luganskis olqSi – starobilski iqneba gadaWrili. es imitom, rom orive maTgani rusuli momaragebis saxmeleTo centrebia. melitopoli rusul armias yirimidan amaragebs, starobilsks ki ruseTis belgorodisa da voroneJis olqebidan ukavSirdeba. ufro didi warmateba iqneba, Tuki azovis zRvamdec moaxerxeben ukrainelebi gasvlas, amiT rusul armias orad gayofen. magram Tundac iseTi zomieri warmatebis miRwevac rom SeZlon ukrainelebma, iseT frontispira dasaxlebebSi rogoric tokmaki, polohi, vasilivka (zaporiJies olqi) da baxmutia (doneckis olqi), es ukve didi samxedro da fsiqologiuri dartyma iqneba ruseTisaTvis, radgan araa dasaviwyebeli, rom ruseTs es teritoriebi aneqsirebulad aqvs gamocxadebuli, anu ambobs Cemiao. ai, Tundac es mcire warmatebac ki, an misi msgavsi sxva olqSi rom ganxorcieldes ukrainelTa mxridan, es indikatori iqneba, rom Semdgomi kontrSetevebi araerTgzis daiwyos.
– ukrainam Riad ganacxada, rom mzadaa moldovas dnestrispireTidan rusi samxedroebis gandevnaSi daexmaros. Tqveni azriT, ramdenad mosalodnelia kiSiniovma kievs dnestrispireTis deokupaciis mowodebiT mimarTos?
– dnestrispireTi mkvdari rusuli konfliqtia aRmosavleT evropaSi, romelic problemaa rogorc ukrainisa da moldovisTvis, ise mTeli regionisaTvis, maT Soris, rumineTisa da poloneTisTvisac ki. is ki arada, saqarTvelosaTvisac sasurveli iqneba, Tuki is gadaiWreba, miT ufro, ruseTis zurggamagrebuli separatistebisaTvis gakveTilis swavlebiT. rac meti magaliTi iqneba aseTi, miT ukeTesi saqarTvelosaTvis. gadaWras rac Seexeba, ukrainis gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi, dnestrispireTis sakiTxi aucileblad dadgeba da Tan Zalian male. sul rom kiSiniovs ar surdes es, ukrainaa dainteresebuli mis sazRvarTan mdgomi rusuli samxedro nawilebis sruli ganadgurebiT. amasTan, erTicaa – ukrainelebi kargad icnoben konfliqts dnestrispireTSi. Tavis droze maT arcTu kargi roli aqvT naTamaSebi mis warmoSobaSi. amitom axla maTi erTgvari movaleobacaa am konfliqtis imgvari gadaWra, rac ukrainasac argebs da moldovasac.
– ras isaxavs miznad ruseTis teritoriaze ukrainis gaxSirebuli sapasuxo dartymebi?
– esaa Ria maniSnebeli imisa, rom omi ukve ruseTis teritoriazec gadavida. zogadad, omi moulodnelobebiTaa savse. amitomaa, rom nebismieri scenari gansaxilvelia, rogor daujerebladac ar unda JRerdes is. yvelaze cud scenarSic ki – Tuki ukraina ver ganaxorcielebs efeqtur winsvlas sakuTar teritoriaze, mcdeloba, rom proukrainulma Zalebma SeZlon ruseTis teritoriebis okupacia da Semdgom daiwyos mis gacvlaze saubari, ar iqneba gamoricxuli. es yvelaferi – hipoTeturad da Tanac strategiul, anu grZelvadian xedvaSi. zogadad, ruseTs Tavis teritoriaze ufro susti samxedro Zalebi hyavs, vidre ukrainis teritoriaze. kremlma fsoni dado imaze, rom ukrainelebi da proukrainuli rusuli Zalebi ver gabedavdnen masze Tavdasxmas. magram faqtia, Secdnen. amasTan, ukrainis uSiSroebis ufrosi kirilo budanovia, romelic yvelaze daujerebel scenarebsac ki ganixilavs xolme, Tumca, mocemul etapze, moklevadian perspeqtivaSi. ruseTis teritoriaze SeWra sxva mizansac emsaxureba: imas, rom ruseTis damarcxeba SesaZlebelia da uZlevelobis cneba mxolod miTia; da imas, rom kremlma ukrainidan samxedroebi belgorodis dasacavad gadaisrolos, riTac ukrainelebs moqmedebis meti Tavisufleba eqnebaT.
– es omi arc wels da arc momaval wels dasruldeba, yovel SemTxvevaSi, aseT mosazrebas afiqsirebs analitikosTa nawili, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb?
– rogorc ki romelime mxare darwmundeba, rom omis mogeba SeuZlebelia an Zalian Zviri jdeba, ufro metia albaToba, swored im mxarem Sewyvitos omi. ukrainelebi TviTgadarCenisaTvis ibrZvian, es ki niSnavs, rom maT omSi marcxiT bevrad meti aqvT dasakargi, vidre rusebs. Sesabamisad, ukrainas SeuZlia ibrZolos bolo samxedromde, ruseTi ki amas ver gaakeTebs – amis arc motivacia aqvT da arc SesaZlebloba. gamofitva is ki ar aris, rom viTom ruseTs cocxali Zala aRar eyoleba omis gasagrZeleblad, cxadia – ara, aramed is, rom omis mxardaWera imdenad Semcirdeba, frontze wasvla aRaravis moundeba – aRarc daqiravebuls, aRarc – regularul nawilebs da aRarc – mobilizebulebs. pirvel msoflio omSi axali realoba rom dadga, maSin imperatorma ver dainaxa es da kidec miiRo revolucia qveynis SigniT. SesaZloa, kremli ufro adekvaturi aRmoCndes axla da TviTgadarCenam ubiZgos omis manam dasruleba, sanam amiT Zalauflebis dakargvis safrTxe ar Seeqmneba.
– aris mosazreba, rom SesaZloa, wlis bolos msoflios gavlenianma liderebma (aSS, didi britaneTi, CineTi, safrangeTi. . .) mxareebi molaparakebis magidasTan dasvan. ramdenad mosalodnelia am omis gayinva?
– sanam arsebobs imedi, rom ruseTi SeiZleba damarcxdes, manam amis Sansi minimaluria.
– germaniis Tavdacvis ministrma Tqva, omSi myof qveyanas natoSi ar miviRebTo. msgavsi gancxadebebi ramdenad waaxalisebs kremls axali agresiisTvis?
– cxadia, es Zalian cudi gancxadebaa, magram realoba marTlac aseTia. amitomaa, rom axla didia motivacia ruseTis yvelafris fasad damarcxebisa da im saerTaSoriso wesrigis gadarCenis, sadac patara erebs eqnebaT saSualeba damoukideblad warmarTon TavianTi sagareo politika. arc is unda daviviwyoT, rom Tuki es omi agresoris marcxiT dasruldeba, gveqneba SesaZlebloba yvela im qveyanas, romlebmac ruseTisgan agresia viwvnieT, davasrulebinoT Cveni teritoriebis okupacia da miviRoT teritoriuli mTlianoba.
– aranakleb mniSvnelovania saqarTvelosTvis kandidatis statusis miReba. am mxriv, rogori iqneba ruseTis gegma, Tu saqarTvelom dekemberSi kandidatis statusi ver miiRo?
– kandidatis statusi CvenTvis ar aris mxolod simboluri mniSvnelobis. evrokavSirTan integraciis dawyeba niSnavs ekonomikur winsvlas, investiciebs, romlebic ubralo adamianebis Rirseul dasaqmebaze aisaxeba, niSnavs momatebul kavSirebs studentebs Soris saqarTveloSi Tu mis farglebs gareT da, rac mTavaria, niSnavs, rom civilizaciurad saqarTvelo gamovida rusuli gavlenis sferodan da aRar marTavs arc qveynis Sida da arc qveynis gare politikas rusuli meTodebiT. statusi SeiZleba ar daumsaxurebia xelisuflebas da metic, ucnaur da gare TvalisaTvis sabotaJur meTodebsac ki mimarTavs mis armisaRebad, magram sazogadoebis didi nawili imaze metad imsaxurebs statuss, vidre es erTi SexedviT Cans. statusis vermiReba qveyanaSi arsebul uimedo politikur mdgomareobas daamZimebs, es ki yvelaze uaresi Sedegi iqneba.
– dabolos, rogor SeafasebT saqarTvelos Sanss, miiRos kandidatis statusi da ra pasuxismgebloba ekisreba rogorc xelisuflebas, ise sazogadoebas, rom Cveni qveyana ruseTis gavlenis qveS ar moeqces?
– saqarTvelo geopolitikur cixeSi imyofeba – regionis umTavres moTamaSeebad ruseTi, irani da TurqeTi rCebian, romlebsac TandaTan emateba CineTic. demokratia saqarTveloSi gafermkrTalebul cnebad da Rirebulebad iqca. arada, iq, sadac araa demokratia, ar aqvs niWier adamians Sansi, gamoavlinos sakuTari Tavi, codna, miiRos sasurveli ganaTleba, hqondes sasurveli Semosavali da ase Semdeg. avtokratiebisaTvis gaRaribebuli da xelisuflebis donaciaze Camokidebuli mosaxleoba advilad samarTavia. am realobaSi imyofeba axla saqarTvelo. amitomaa, rom evropasTan kavSiri ara mxolod fsiqologiurad Secvlis, aramed geopolitikur cixesac gaarRvevinebs saqarTvelos da arc demokratiis (realuri demokratiis da ara fiqciis) miRweva iqneba SeuZlebeli. mxolod monas ar ekiTxebian arafers. WeSmariti demokratia Tavisufali adamianebis mmarTvelobaa.
