ჟუჟუნა შაინიძე: ძალიან დიდხანს ვეძებდი გასაღებს ტექსტების გასახსნელად
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am rTul, apokalifsur droSi mxatvrul sityvas, mwerlobas gansakuTrebuli datvirTva aqvs. literaturuli procesebis jansaRad warmarTvisTvis ki mniSvnelovania roli mkvlevar-kritikosisa, romlis saqmianobisTvis keTilsindisiereba da zneoba aucilebelia. aseT mkvlevarad warmoCnda baTumeli qalbatoni, TvalsaCino Semoqmedi da literaturaTmcodne JuJuna SainiZe.
– qalbatono JuJuna, SarSan Cveni gazeTis stumari brZandebodiT da SesaniSnavi pasuxebiT mkiTxvelTa yuradReba miipyariT. sainteresoa, am drois ganmavlobaSi rogor warimarTa Tqveni SemoqmedebiTi cxovreba, ra siaxleebia?
– upirvelesad, madloba, piradad Tqven da Cvens sayvarel gazeT `aWaras~, mis redaqtorsa da redkolegias, rom ase gvanebivrebT saintereso xelovanebTan dialogebiT. kargia, roca gemovnebian korespondents gemovnebiani respondentebi hyavs. mTavari kargi kiTxvis dasmaa da Tu pasuxic kargia, niSnavs, rom interviu Sedga. mkiTxvels es SeuniSnavi ar darCeba. SemoqmedebiTad CemTvis es weli Zalian nayofieri gamodga. mzad maqvs axali leqsebi krebulisTvis. gansakuTrebiT maxarebs is, rom Jurnal `aneulisa~ da gazeT `literaturuli mesxeTis~ furclebze gamoqveynda Cemi axali leqsebis cikli. aseve, Cveni mweralTa saxlis moTxovniT, qalTa krebulisaTvis SevarCie, ufro sworad, SesarCevad gavagzavne leqsebi, radgan mirCevnia, Cemi nawerebi sxvam gacxrilos. barem aqve aRvniSnav, rom saintereso Canafiqria aWaraSi moRvawe qalTa krebulis gamocema da vimedovneb, kargi wigni gamova, radgan gemovnebiani redaqtorebi – qalbatoni lali konceliZe da batoni sandro beriZe uxelmZRvaneleben am gamocemas.
– gansakuTrebul interess aRZravs Tqveni samecniero saqmianoba. monografiebi, literaturuli narkvevebi, eseebi moswonT da am azrs xSirad afiqsireben internetsivrceSi… ixilavs am naSromebs momavalSi ganaxlebuli saxiT mkiTxveli?
– lado seidiSvilis Semoqmedebisadmi miZRvnili monografia `poeti mebadurTa gvaridan~ roca daistamba da saimedod SefuTuli Tbilisidan fostiT gadmomigzavna batonma zaur naWyebiam, avadsaxsenebeli kovidi mZvinvarebda da TiTqmis mTeli 2 weli `karantinSi~ yofna miesaja am wigns (albaT, am avtoris bedisweraa esec!). maSin arc prezentaciis saSualeba iyo, magram visac wigni vaCuqe da waikiTxa, yvelam aRniSna, rom kargi interpretacia gamovida. aqve minda, gansakuTrebuli madloba gadavuxado qalbaton Sorena maxaWaZes wignis dadebiTad SefasebisaTvis da baton mixeil maxaraZes, romelmac am monografiis wakiTxvis Semdeg SemomTavaza, gazeT `literaturuli saqarTvelosTvis~ TanaavtorobiT mogvemzadebina werili lado seidiSvilis moRvaweobis Sesaxeb. marTlac, am gazeTis mTeli gverdi daeTmo lado seidiSvilis literaturul portrets saTauriT `poeti mebadurTa gvaridan~. aseve, zurab gorgilaZis Semoqmedebisadmi miZRvnili Cemi monografiidan ori statia daibeWda Jurnal `xatimamulSi~. vcdilob, gansakuTrebuli yuradReba mivaqcio axalgazrda SemoqmedTa saqmianobas. poet paata surmaniZis krebulis – `tita fuJerSi~ erTi aspeqtis mimoxilvas mivuZRveni statia, romelic Jurnal `isindSi~ gamoqveynda, xolo mzia salvariZis leqs `maWaxelas futkaros~ Cemeuli interpretacia, romelic internetsivrceSi mqonda ganTavsebuli, gadaubeWdavT Jurnal `WoroxSi.~ vfiqrob, aseve, saTanado Sefaseba sWirdeba Tanamedrove qarTul emigrantul literaturas, romelsac sistematurad vadevneb Tvals. jerjerobiT internetsivrceSi gamovaqveyne da SemdgomSi vfiqrob, krebulSi Sevitano werili salonikSi mcxovreb niWier baTumel qalbaton nana CxaiZis Semoqmedebaze, romlis prozauli teqstebi yuradRebas ipyrobs `Seuferavi realizmis~ TvalsazrisiT, Tanamedrove termins Tu gamoviyenebT, `nonfiqSenis~ (realuri cxovrebis aRwera namdvili gvar-saxelebiT) literaturuli TaviseburebebiTa da cnobierebis nakadis teqnikiT. rogorc iqna, aRvadgine, Sevkribe da gamosacemad movamzade sxvadasxva dros dabeWdili literaturul-publicisturi werilebi Tanamedrove qarTul literaturaze, romelic elodeba gamomcemels da darwmunebuli var, eRirseba mzis sinaTles. amJamad vmuSaob erT Zalian faqiz Temaze, romelsac siurprizad Semovunaxav mkiTxvels.
– wina interviuSi ganacxadeT, yvela Semoqmedi ucxoplaneteliao. zogierTi mwerlis pragmatulobam da medroveobam azri xom ar SegacvlevinaT da ra moeTxoveba dRes mwerals?
– diax, ase ganvacxade da sityvas ukan ar waviReb, radgan Semoqmeds, namdvil xelovans vgulisxmobdi. gaxsovT? – `planetaruli oTar WilaZeo~, – brZana batonma SoTa zoiZem. es Sefaseba namdvil Semoqmeds ekuTvnis, Torem gana vinc wers, yvela Semoqmedia?! rac Seexeba medroveebs, isini yvela droSi arian, magram verasdros Seqmnian an Secvlian WeSmarit literaturul aminds, Tumca, garkveulwilad, uaryofiT zemoqmedebas axdenen mimdinare literaturuli procesis sworad (ufro zustad, samarTlianad) warmarTvaze. mwerals yvela droSi da, gansakuTrebiT dRes, roca ase qaosuria yvelaferi, meti keTilsindisiereba moeTxoveba. SeiZleba premia an tituli iyido, magram piruTvnel mkiTxvels ver moisyidi, verc Sens teqstebs waakiTxeb ZaldatanebiT, miT umetes, ver daazepirebineb. es yvela drois Seuvali WeSmariteba, dauwereli kanonia. totalitarizmis pirobebSic xom Tavs gvaxvevdnen uamrav fsevdoliteraturul `Sedevrs~, magram isini Camaval wyals gavayoleT.
– literaturis kvleva da kritikosoba, gansakuTrebiT CvenSi, did sulier Zalasa da zneobas moiTxovs, Tavad rom Semoqmedi xarT, es ramdenad gexmarebaT, ufro Rrmad CaixedoT mwerlis sulSi, gaaanalizoT misi nawarmoebi da SeafasoT?
– keTilsindisiereba vaxsene da es yvelaze metad moeTxoveba literaturis mkvlevars, kritikoss. rac Seexeba sulier Zalas, rasac `gulis sisxls~ ar uZRvni, misgan araferi gamova. sulier da fizikur Zalisxmevas rom Tavi davaneboT, inteleqtTan erTad erTi gansakuTrebuli Tvisebaa teqstis SemfaseblisaTvis aucilebeli – `sixaruli sxvis warmatebasa zeda~. mec rom vwer oriod sityvas, es, ra Tqma unda, mexmareba, ufro axlos mivide mwerlis `Sida samzareulosTan~, miT umetes, rom Cemi redaqtoruli praqtikidan gamomdinare, umetesad, avtorTa xelnawerebis wakiTxva-Sefaseba miwevda wlebis ganmavlobaSi. vityodi, rom weraze gacilebiT rTuli da sapasuxismgebloa sxvis sulSi Caxedva, sxvisi naTqvam-nagulisxmevis gageba, gansakuTrebiT, Sefaseba. me Zalian didxans veZebdi gasaRebs teqstebis gasaxsnelad. amisTvis TiTqmis yvela Tanamedrove Teoriasa da meTodologias gavecani, magram umTavresi mainc `kritikosis brma xedvaa~, intuicia, romelic codniT ar gveZleva.
– niWieri poeti, upirveles yovlisa, gansxvavebuli sulia, rac arc swavlebiT da arc teqnikiT miiRweva, vfiqrob, es aqsiomaa, Tumca bevrs sakamaTod gauxdia, roca leqsis formaze amaxvilebs yuradRebas da novatorebs uaryofs. Tqveneuli Sefaseba…
– diax, swored es igulisxmeba `brma xedvaSi~. poeti, romelsac niWi (ze-cis saCuqari) eboZa, pirvel rigSi, brma iaraRia didi Semoqmedis xelSi. rac Seexeba formas, garegnul Sesamosels TviTon Sinaarsi, saTqmeli irCevs da amasac brmad emorCileba xelovani. teqstis dabadebamde, anu sityvierad Semosvamde arcerTma xelovanma ar icis, ra formas miiRebs saTqmeli, Tumca Zalian bevri ramaa damokidebuli poetis mcdelobazec, rogorc mediumma, ise miiRos da Tavis sulierebaSi gaataros RvTis saCuqari, rom mkiTxvelamde daumaxinjeblad miitanos, rogorc droebiT mibarebuli Zvirfasi ganZi. elementarulad, Tundac enis kanonebis codnaze gavamaxvileb yuradRebas. kiTxulob nawers, TiTqosda aris raRac mcdeloba poeturobisa da yvelaferi wyalSi iyreba, roca TvalSi (da yelSic!) gageCxireba aseTi gamoTqma – `ronsris soneti~ an paraziti ergatiuli forma – `mzem amovida~. RmerTo Cemo, romelic ikumSeba, is sityvebi menaneba SesakumS-Sesakvecad da ronsaris (frangi poeti pier de ronsari) SekumSva SeiZleba (rogor gavixseno aq rusTvelis an galaktionis poeturi licenciebi)?!
– mwerlis adgili da roli dRevandel viTarebaSi. . . roca amaze fiqrobT. . .
– roca amaze vfiqrob, guli mikvdeba, radgan dRevandel samyaroSi mwerlis adgili aRar aris. axda Zia platonis naocnebari, magram miuxedavad amisa, radgan uaresi dReebic da amindebic gvaxsovs, mweralma mainc Tavisi unda gaakeTos, yovel SemTxvevaSi, mcdeloba ar daaklos Tavis umTavres misias. dRevandel viTarebaSi mwerali `dakarguli drois~ ki ara, dakarguli sulierebis ZiebaSi unda aTen-aRamebdes, Torem sulierebisa da namdvili emociebis gareSe gaformebul-CaxuWuWebul teqstebs (maT Soris leqsebsac!) xelovnuri inteleqtic ki wers!
– axali cifruli realoba transformacias iTxovs. . . literatura, mwerloba da misi momavali am aspeqtSi. . .
– literaturis gadanacvleba cifrul realobaSi, Tavisi dadebiTi da uaryofiTi mxareebiT – es erT-erTi aspeqtia Tanamedrove teqnikuri transformaciebisa, romelic did Zalisxmevasa da kvalificiur codnas moiTxovs: cifruli koleqciis grafikuli dizainis Seqmna, nawarmoebebis momzadeba, maTi teqnikurad damuSaveba, gadayvana sxvadasxva cifrul formatSi urTulesi saqmea rogorc teqnikurad, aseve samarTlebrivad, rac dakavSirebulia saavtoro uflebebTan. am mxriv gansakuTrebiT problemuria Tanamedrove literaturuli teqstebis cifruli koleqciis Seqmna, radgan cifrul formatebSi gadayvanisa da normalizaciis proeqtSi miTiTebulia, rom aucilebelia saavtoro uflebebis mqone pirebsa da organizaciebTan oficialuri SeTanxmebis gaformeba. Tanamedrove qarTul realobaSi, vfiqrob, naadrevia imis warmodgena, rom male yvela wigni eleqtronul formatSi gadava. amave dros, samomavlod, savaraudoa, rom eleqtronulma biblioTekebma ufunqciod datovos nabeWdi wignebi. aqve unda iTqvas, rom Tanamedrove axalgazrdobis umravlesobisaTvis arc eleqtronuli da arc nabeWdi mxatvruli literatura aRar aris interesis sagani, xolo visac kiTxva uyvars, cifrul formatSic kiTxulobs da nabeWdSic.
– mwerlis warmatebisaTvis cifruli mediis miRwevebis gaTaviseba da saWiro unarebis floba aucilebeli pirobaa, am fonze rogor gamoiyurebian Cveni mwerlebi?
– roca garsia markess hkiTxes, rogor eguebi axal teqnikaso, man upasuxa: Tumca carieli kuWiT da xeliT sabeWdi manqaniTac mSvenivrad vwerdi, magram arc Tanamedrove eleqtronul teqnikaze vambob uarso. axal Taobas ar uWirs Tanamedrove progresTan Segueba, misi aTviseba, CvenTvis – cota `ZvelebisTvis~ problemuria, ra Tqma unda, magram mainc mgonia, kargi nawarmoebis Seqmnaa mTavari, Torem teqnikur mxareebs rogorme moevleba.
– literaturuli saitebi, portalebi, literaturuli jgufebi, rogorc sazogadoebasTan mobiluri urTierTobis saSualeba da maTi mniSvneloba literaturuli procesebis warmarTvaSi. .
– roca sadisertacio Temas vwerdi, wminda literaturuli TvalsazrisiT mravali samwerlo-saliteraturo da poeturi dajgufeba gamovarCie Tanamedrove qarTul literaturaSi, es iyo Tundac aleqsandre orbelianis sazogadoeba da gazeT `Cvens mwerlobasTan~ Semokrebili samwerlo gaerTianeba, romelic ar Semofarglula erTi kerZo jgufis interesebiT da saocrad gaacocxla qarTuli literaturuli procesi; aseve, `quTaisis dakarguli Taoba~; `qronofagebi~; `gulani~ `anaSxali~ da sxva, romlebsac, garkveulwilad, gaaCndaT TavianTi programebi da saerTo literaturuli principebi. sadReisod Seqmnili jgufebis umravlesoba komerciul miznebs ufro emsaxureba, vidre jansaRi literaturuli procesis ganviTarebas.
– ras urCevdiT axalgazrda kalmosnebs dRes, roca `leqsis mwerali ase gaxSirda~, roca erzacliteraturam lamis walekos irgvliv yvelaferi. . .
– arsebobs aseTi gamoTqma: Tu ginda gaigo, rogor cxovrobs qveyana, naxe, ramdeni mwerali hyavso. saqarTveloSi dRes yvela mwerali, politikosi da akademikosia. es erTgvari fsiqologiuri testic aris da arasasurveli realobidan gaqcevisa Tu misi gadalaxvis mcdelobac, Tumca moCvenebiTi da fsevdomcdeloba, amitom rTulia aseT garemoSi wera da gzis gagneba. axalgazrda mwerlebs vurCevdi, sad da ra viTarebaSic ar unda mouwioT cxovreba, icxovron sakuTar enaSi, Caswvdnen mSobliuri enis siRrmeebs da saidumloebebs, aagon iq saimedo saxli, Tundac myudro qoxi da es iqneba yvelaze saimedo garanti gadarCenis, weris, namdvili Semoqmedebis.
– wigni, romelsac ubrundebiT da migaCniaT, rom sulis zrdisaTvis mas rogorc yrmobisas, aseve siWarmagisas badali ar hyavs, anu gansulierebuli wigni Cveni arsobisa. . .
– CemTvis aseTi wignia SoTa rusTvelis `vefxistyaosani~. am wignma gamoZerwa Cemi xasiaTi. igi amouleveli sabadoa sulierebis, WeSmariti poeturobisa da sayrdeni Cveni erovnulobisa.
Pp.s roca uimedo ganwyobileba meufleba, poezias mivaSureb xolme. amitom intervius am leqsiT davasrulebdi:
(ganwyobisaTvis)
ivnissac uxdeba sifiTre,
RrubelTa badeSi mTvare cris,
rac dRemde me Senze vifiqre,
mzeebad minTia TvalebSi.
ivnisis uCumar RameSi,
cis kide Cumad rom ixsneba,
vin icis, varskvlavTa alersSi
ra amoikiTxes misnebma.
ivnismac, ar icis, RmerTmani,
sizmrebSi ra naxes mindvrebma,
an yurSi ra uTxres erTmaneTs,
im RamiT TvalWroRa cicrebma.
fiqria im Citze frTamali,
niskartiT rom wiwknis mzis
Tavels,
frTaTeTri Rameebis amaliT
fiqrebs amadevna TibaTvem.
madloba ivnisis Rameebs,
uxilav xilviT rom amavses,
RrubelTa badeSi mTvareebs
sZinavT da TibaTve arc axsovT.
fiqri xom Citia frTamali,
zRvis fskerzec mze bangavs
irisebs,
cis cecxli, rac gulSi davmale,
aanTebs miriad ivnisebs.
ifrqveva surneli alerdis,
TeTrdeba fiqri da Tendeba,
enTeba cis lurji xaverdi,
CvenTvis rom moqsoves
RmerTebma.
