,,ოპოზიციის ნაწილი გაურკვეველი დღის წესრიგით მოქმედებს”
äïøï õëèåîòêò 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTveloSi saparlamento arCevnebamde weliwadi darCa, Tumca politikuri muxti ukve gaaqtiurda, araoficialurad qveyana saarCevno reJimSi gadavida, politikur speqtrSi gadaadgilebebi xdeba: `nacmoZraobam~ da `strategia aRmaSenebelma~ axali platforma Seqmnes, rasac politikosTa mxridan araerTgvarovani Sefasebebi mohyva
sxva partiebic aqtiurdebian am mimarTebiT. `lelom~ daaanonsa axali centris daarsebis idea, romelic am partiis wevrebis TqmiT, mesame politikuri centri iqneba da Seecdeba, mosaxleobis arCevani maTze SeCerdes, mmarTveli partia ki darwmunebulia, rom arCevnebSi damajereblad gaimarjvebs. realurad, 2024 wlis politikuri mozaika qveyanaSi metwilad, damokidebulia rogorc xelisuflebis, ise opoziciis qmedebebze, anu ramdenad sazogadoebaze orientirebul nabijebs gadadgamen. isic udavoa, rom es arCevnebi umniSvnelovanesi etapia saqarTvelos uaxles istoriaSi, radgan srulad proporciuli sistemiT tardeba, garda amisa, rogorc gacxadda, dasavleTi gamadidebeli SuSiT daakvirdeba moaxloebul arCevnebs, es erTgvari testi iqneba saqarTvelos dasavleTTan dasaaxloeblad. am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze partiis `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ baTumis organizaciis erT – erT liders arCil beriZes vesaubrebiT.
– praqtikulad, araoficialurad saarCevno maraToni daiwyo, partiebi gadajgufebas iwyeben, am mxriv Tqveni partia ra stadiaSia?
– Cvenma partiam Riad ganacxada, rom saxelmwifos interesebidan gamomdinare, mzad aris, iTanamSromlos prodasavluri da kargi warsulis mqone partiebTan, Tumca jer dajgufebebze saubari naadrevi mgonia. saarCevno cieb-cxelebas ufro meti gaerTianeba mohyveba arsebuli barieris pirobebSi.
– ukve gacxadda, rom `nacmoZraoba~ da `strategia aRmaSenebeli~ gaerTianda, ra Sansi aqvT maT arCevnebze mniSvnelovani Sedegis misaRwevad?
– piradad CemTvis `nacionalur moZraobasTan~ nebismieri gaerTianeba im imediT, rom es realur suraTs Secvlis, Rimilis momgvrelia. sazogadoebisTvis es partia kvlav mTavar miuRebel partiad rCeba. politikur gaerTianebas, sadac mTavari Zala `nacionaluri moZraoba~ iqneba, momavali ar uweria. es ar aris ivaniSvilis partiis damarcxebis formula. es gaerTianeba daaCqarebs `nacmoZraobis~ gayofas, es ki opoziciur speqtrze dadebiTad imoqmedebs, radgan axal partiebs miecemaT axali TamaSis wesebis dadgenis saSualeba, rac `biZina Tu miSa~ narativs moZvelebuls gaxdis.
– ufro konkretulad, ratom aris miuRebeli `nacmoZraobasTan~ aliansi?
– `nacionaluri moZraoba~ sazogadoebis cnobierebaSi dakavSirebulia usamarTlobasa da ZaladobasTan. 11 wlis Semdegac ver moxda am partiis reorganizacia. wina planze isev is saxeebia, vinc Zaladobriv reJimTan arian dakavSirebulni. Cven vTvliT, rom am adamianebs `qarTuli ocnebis~ damarcxeba ki ara, statuskvos SenarCuneba, an erTpirovnulad Zalauflebis xelSi Cagdeba surT. Cven sxva interesebi gvaqvs. Cveni mizania, rom axalma xelisuflebam (romelSic Cveni roli didi iqneba) moagvaros sazogadoebis socialur-ekonomikuri problemebi da qveyana ganviTarebis relsebze daayenos, Seqmnas iseTi saxelmwifo, romelic orientirebuli iqneba adamianze.
– `lelo~ alternatiul centrs Seqmnis, – ganacxada Tqveni partiis erT-erTma liderma irakli kupraZem. . .
– politikaSi CarTvisTanave vTqviT, rom Cven SevcvliT arsebul politikur realobas da sazogadoebas mivcemT SesaZleblobas, arCevani gaakeTos ara cudsa da uaress Soris, ara miSasa da biZinas Soris, aramed gaCndes axali, ganviTarebaze, Sedegze orientirebuli politikuri centri, romelic dakompleqtebuli iqneba qveynis ganviTarebiT dainteresebuli adamianebiT, ganaTlebuli, kargi warsulis mqone axalgazrdebiT, romelTac eqnebaT Zala, daamarcxon `qarTuli ocneba~ da Semdeg, moagvaron sazogadoebis problemebi. iseT politikur partiebTan TanamSromloba, romlebic am kriteriumebs akmayofileben, Seamcirebs politikur polarizacias da `nac-qocuri~ TamaSis wesebs Caanacvlebs axali TamaSis wesebiT, romelic qveyanas politikur-ekonomikuri krizisidan gamoiyvans.
– saarCevno barieri xuTi procentia. Tqveni azriT, ramdeni partia SeZlebs barieris gadalaxvas, anu SeZlebs saerTo jamSi opozicia xelisuflebis damarcxebas?
– opozicias mouwevs Zalian bevri imuSaos sakuTar Tavsa da amomrCevelze. 5%-iani barieri patara partiebisTvis didi winaRobaa – vinc sakuTar TavSi Zalas ver xedavs, sxva partiebTan mouwevs mikedleba an gaerTianeba. es, erTi mxriv, procesze uaryofiTad moqmedebs, meore mxriv ki, aucilebels xdis partiebis erTmaneTTan TanamSromlobas da dRis wesrigSi sazogadoebis realuri problemebis dayenebas. sxva SemTxvevaSi gamoricxuli mgonia, rom patara partiebma sazogadoebis ndoba moipovon. romeli partia gadalaxavs bariers, amas dro gviCvenebs. darwmunebuli var, `lelo~ aucileblad iqneba mravalpartiuli, koaliciuri mTavrobis saZirkveli.
– mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom opozicia, ZiriTadad, populizmiTaa dakavebuli. . .
– `qarTul ocnebasTan~ demagogiiTa da populizmiT konkurenciis gaweva Zalian rTulia, aq `ocneba~ upirobo lideria. opoziciaSic arian iseTebi, visac hgoniaT, rom populisturi da Sablonuri frazebiT fons gavlen – populizmiT nasazrdoebi politikuri partiebis sicocxlisunarianoba Zalian moklea, maT Soris opoziciaSi. sazogadoebas ufro meti yuradReba marTebs arCevanis gakeTebisas, raTa ar wamoegos martiv populizms, radgan `qarTuli ocnebis~ propaganda, ZiriTadad, Sinaarsgamoclil, azrsmoklebul populizmzea damyarebuli. 2024 wlis arCevnebze sazogadoebis ndobas moipovebs is partia/partiebi, romlebic Sinaarsobrivad, faqtebiT, argumentirebulad isaubreben sazogadoebis problemebze da misi mogvarebis gzebze. Cemi Taoba, yovelTvis svams kiTxvas, populizms ki pasuxebi ar gaaCnia.
– miuxedavad opoziciis braldebebisa xelisuflebis mimarT sagareo kuTxiT, isini acxadeben, rom 12-punqtiani evropuli rekomendaciebis Sesasruleblad yvelaferi keTdeba. Tqveni azri rogoria?
– evroparlamentarebma kargad axsnes, rom mxolod 3 rekomendacia Sesrulda, 8 – nawilobriv da erTis Sesasruleblad saerTod araferi gakeTebula. ufro metic, sazogadoebis CarTuloba da informaciis gamWvirvaloba am procesSi Zalian mcirea. xelisufleba, romel rekomendaciaSic Zalauflebis dakargvis marcvals xedavs, mis Sesasruleblad fexs iTrevs. amas emateba antievropuli gancxadebebi, rac Zalian azianebs am process. sazogadoebas aqvs gonivruli eWvi, rom `ocnebas~ ar surs kandidatis statusis miReba, radgan mouwevs iseTi reformebis gatareba, romlebic qveyanaSi demokratiis xarisxs gazrdis, es ki avtoritarul reJims niadags gamoaclis.
– am bolo dros saqarTvelos prezidenti salome zurabiSvili aRmasrulebel xelisuflebas akritikebs, ras fiqrobT?
– zurabiSvili kargad xvdeba, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ cdilobs, saqarTvelos kandidatis statusis miRebaSi xeli SeuSalos da gaaRvivos antidasavluri ganwyobebi, amitomac ase Riad daupirispirda mmarTvel Zalas. amaze `ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebisa da trol-botebis prezidentze uSinaarso da demagogiuri Tavdasxmebic metyvelebs. zurabiSvili bolo periodSi saxelmwifoebrivad swor poziciebs aJRerebs, Tumca mas aqvs ufro meti berketi, sityvebi ganamtkicos qmedebiT.
– eqspertma xaTuna lagaziZem amas winaT ganacxada, rom opozicia saTanadod ver muSaobs mosaxleobaSi. misi TqmiT, marto xelisuflebis kritika arafrismomcemia, mTavaria, daanaxo xalxs qveynis ganviTarebis perspeqtiva. . .
– opozicia namdvilad imsaxurebs kritikas, is saTanadod ver muSaobs sazogadoebasTan da CarCenilia warsulSi. arsebuli opoziciis did nawils, mgonia, rom moswons es mdgomareoba da statuskvo. axal Zalebs ar eZlevaT SesaZlebloba, Seqmnan politikuri amindi. opozicias marTebs sazogadoebis realur problemebze saubari, sazogadoebisTvis maTi gadaWris gzebis da realuri alternativis SeTavazeba. sazogadoebis dakveTa aris maTis mogvarebasa da Sedegze orientirebuli opozicia, sadac wina planze iqnebian axalgazrdebi. sxva SemTxvevaSi, isev im wreze vivliT, razec davdivarT 11 welia – `miSa Tu biZina~.
– Tqveni pasuxebidan Cans, rom koaliciuri mTavrobis SeqmnaSi darwmunebuli xarT, magram opozicia ramdenadaa mzad erTmaneTTan saTanamSromlod?
– Tamamad SegviZlia vTqvaT, rom mosaxleoba emzadeba cvlilebebisTvis, magram opozicias Zalian bevri samuSao aqvs am mimarTulebiT. am etapze opoziciis nawili gaurkveveli dRis wesrigiT moqmedebs, rac azianebs saerTo process. am formis opozicia aradamajerebelia, magram procesebi badebs gancdas, rom arCevnebze opozicia sul sxva formiT warsdgeba da dRis wesrigSi dadgeba is sakiTxebi, romlebic awuxebs mosaxleobas, maT Soris, sagareo kursis cvlileba, socialur-ekonomikuri krizisi, samarTliani sasamarTlo da a. S. es aris sazogadoebis dakveTa da masze orientirebul opozicias, rTuli politikuri garemos pirobebSic ki SeuZlia `ocnebis~ iaffasian populizms niadagi gamoacalos. Tu opozicia swor strategias gamoiyenebs, xelisuflebis cvlileba gardauvalia.
– Semodgoma saqarTveloSi yovelTvis rTuli iyo, ras unda velodoT wels da aqve Tanmdevi kiTxva: romeli problemuri sakiTxis gadaWra migaCniaT Tanamedrove pirobebSi yvelaze saSurad?
– rTulia prognozireba, radgan opozicia spontanuria, rac amomrCevels abnevs. saWiroa, swori, gegmazomieri moqmedeba, rac amomrCevels opoziciis mimarT ndobas gauCens da aseve, axal amomrCevels miiyvans arCevnebze. pirvel rigSi, amisTvis unda moemzados opozicia. rac Seexeba problemebs, dRis wesrigSi dgas kandidatis statusi, radgan mas SeuZlia pozitiuri gavlena moaxdinos qveynis socialur-ekonomikur mdgomareobaze. sazogadoebas yvelaze metad awuxebs socialuri yofa, siRaribe, es unda iyos ganxilvis Tema.
