შეგონება მომავლისთვის, ანუ ,,მთავარი მაინც მამული არის”
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
mkiTxvelis yuradReba da siyvaruli mwerlisTvis yvelaze didi jildo da simdidrea, rac araerTxel gacxadebula da amaSi amjerad, cnobili mwerlisa da mecnieris murad mTvareliZis saiubileo dReebma dagvarwmuna. mas 70 weli udidesi siyvaruliT, gamorCeulad swored mkiTxvelebma miuloces. diax, misi samwerlo Semodgoma nayofieri da STambeWdavia, gamosca rogorc mxatvruli, aseve, samecniero wignebi: `wamebuli akaki~, avtobiografiuli romani `ambebi maTze da Cemze~, xaSuris literaturuli enciklopedia. gansakuTrebuli aRiareba `Tanamedrove ufliswulis samwigneulma~ moutana. es wigni ramdenime ucxo enaze iTargmneba, male Turquladac gamoicema.
– batono murad, axlaxan 70 weli mogilocaT sazogadoebam, Cvenc gilocavT. . . Tqvenma samwerlo da sazogadoebrivma Rvawlma farTo gamoxmaureba hpova, es sasixarulocaa da sapasuxismgebloc, ara?
– pirvel rigSi, uRrmes madlobas mogaxsenebT imisTvis, rom saSualeba momeca, kidev erTxel Sevexmiano aWaris sazogadoebas. asaki TavisTavad gvaZlevs meti fiqrisa da gansjis saSualebas. rasakvirvelia, aseTi dafaseba erTdroulad sixarulicaa da didi pasuxismgeblobac. . . da Tuki aseTi dReebis sadResaswaulo ganwyobebi, ase Tu ise, male miileva xolme, pasuxismgebloba sul rCeba. is kidev ufro metad da xSirad gaxsenebs Tavs da erTgvarad gansazRvravs kidec rogorc Seni cxovrebis wess, ise movaleobebsac.
– noyieri samwerlo Semodgoma gidgaT, bolo periodSi gamocemuli wignebidan romels gamoarCevT?
– bolo periodSi ramdenime wigni gamoveci – mxatvrulic, samecnieroc, aseve, sabavSvo. am ukanasknelze minda SevCerde. miuxedavad imisa, rom ramdenime sabavSvo moTxroba dabeWdili mqonda, vTvli, rom Cemi `Tanamedrove ufliswulis~ samwigneuli ara mxolod Cemi debiuti, aramed es aseve, iyo, Cemi, rogorc mwerlis Sesvla sruliad sxva, gansakuTrebulad faqiz da feradovan samyaroSi. mkiTxvelma `Tanamedrove ufliswulis~ samive wigni kargad miiRo. madlobeli var gamomcemloba `Semecnebis~ xelmZRvanelis qalbaton lia SalvaSvilis, romelmac am wignis ramdenime enaze Targmins gadawyvetileba miiRo, sul male Cemi Tanamedrove `ufliswulis~ samwigneuli gamoicema Turqul enaze, stambolSi, rac Zalian maxarebs. gamoveci SedarebiT patara monografia `wamebuli akaki~, sadac Sevecade da mgoni, gamomivida kidec akakisTvis Camomecilebina is talaxi, romelsac zogierTebi dRemde esvrian da ufro metic, meCvenebina, rom is iyo WeSmaritad wamebuli adamiani. aseve, gamovaqveyne leqsebis krebuli saxelwodebiT `sami dro~, sadac Tavi movuyare yvela im leqss, romelic ufro mniSvnelovnad mimaCnia Cemi Semoqmedebidan. maTgan mainc vrcel avtobiografiul romans gamovyof, romelsac vuwode `ambebi maTze da Cemze~ da masSi SeZlebisdagvarad avsaxe yvela is movlena, rac cxovrebis manZilze Semxvedria, Sevecade, gamecocxlebina yvela is ambavi da adamiani, romlebmac Cems cxovrebaSi gansakuTrebuli wvlili Seitanes. am wignis zogierTi adgili, sxvaTa Soris, Tqvens qalaqs da Cems baTumel megobrebsac exeba.
– axlaxan daaanonseT, rom male mkiTxveli xaSuris literaturul enciklopedias miiReba. . . mogviTxreT amis Taobaze?
– xaSuris literaturulma enciklopediam Cemi droisa da nebisyofis didi nawili waiRo. vidre am interviuze muSaobas daviwyebdi, mas sabolood gadavavle Tvali da wertilic davsvi. am dReebSi gamomcemlobaSi gavagzavni. es aris xaSuris municipalitetis kulturis istoriis erTi saintereso da mniSvnelovani furceli. vfiqrob, Cveni qveynisa da regionebis siZliere imiTac ganisazRvreba, ra faseulobebze dgas. am mxriv xaSurs namdvilad aqvs saamayo. am qalaqs saukune-naxevris istoria aqvs, magram mgonia, imitom daarsda, rom rkinigzelTa qalaqTan erTad poeziis qalaqadac qceuliyo. am wignSi Sevida yvela cnobili, naklebad cnobili an sulac ucnobi xaSureli mwerali, romlebsac Tundac erTi literaturuli teqsti daubeWdavT Cveni raionis Tu respublikur periodikaSi, orasamdea aseTi. yuradReba gadavitaneT ara am teqstebis xarisxze, aramed literaturul faqtze, Tumca, unda vTqva, rom arc am mxriv gvaqvs saqme cudad. enciklopedia oTxi nawilisagan Sedgeba, pirveli warmogvidgens im avtorebs, romelTa nawarmoebebi met-naklebad ibeWdeboda da maT biografiebs erTvis erTgvari lirikuli wiaRsvlebi, aseve bibliografia da literatura ama Tu im avtorze. meore ganyofilebas hqvia `maT gaielves~ da aq suraTebisa da Sesabamisi teqstebis gareSe anbanuradaa dalagebuli am avtorTa gvarebi da miTiTebulia bibliografia, wignis Semdegi nawilebi ki, ZiriTadad, bibliografiul nawils moicavs.
– yuradRebas ipyrobs Tqveni leqciebi muzeumSi:
`vefxistyaosani~ yofa-cxovrebaSi. es leqciebis cikli Tavisi TematikiTa da miznebiT gamorCeulia da popularuli. Tavad ras ityodiT maT daniSnulebaze, vis urCevT maT mosmenas da ratom?
– daviwyeb SekiTxvis bolo nawiliT, am leqciebis mosmenas, upirvelesad, vurCev axalgazrdebs da Tu ratom, es martivad gasaazrebelia. marTlac, leqciebze vxedav xolme moswavleebsac, rac Zalian maxarebs, magram naklebi interesi SeiniSneba skolebis, pedagogebis mxridan, arada, piriqiT unda iyos. SeiZleba vinmem Tqvas, qarTulis maswavlebelma `vefxistyaosani~ mSvenivrad icis da leqciaze daswreba ra savaldebuloao, magram sakiTxebi, romlebsac me ganvixilav am kuTxiT naklebad aris Seswavlili da maTi wina planze wamoweva, vfiqrob, dRes gansakuTrebiT sainteresoa. yoveldRiur yofaSi wina saukunis 90-ian wlebamde bevrad ufro didi adgili ekava am erovnul ganZs, vidre dRes da Tu Cveni cxovreba davaSoreT am genialuri wignis idealebs, saiTkenac miveqanebiT dRes, didi problemebi Seeqmneba Cvens identobasac, radgan qarTvels ori wigni miaCnda Tavis upirveles saxelmZRvanelod, siwminded da cxovrebis sazrisis ganmsazRvrelad: `biblia~ da `vefxistyaosani~. samwuxarod, dRes orive wignis mimarT interesi ganelebulia. da vidre Cemi Taoba jer isev aris, gvevaleba, momaval Taobas CavunergoT umTavresi – icxovron `vefxistyaosanTan~ erTad, misi idealebiT.
mokle xanSi goris saxelmwifo universiteti gamoscems amave saxelwodebis monografias, romelic swored am leqciebis Tematikas aerTianebs da dainteresebul mkiTxvels SesaZlebloba miecema, ufro detalurad gaecnos da gaiazros, ra rolis asrulebda `vefxistyaosani~ Cveni eris cxovrebaSi. aqve getyviT, rom am wignis erT-erTi recenzenti aris baTumis saxelmwifo universitetis profesori, SesaniSnavi literaturaTmcodne da swavluli qalbatoni Sorena maxaWaZe.
– Tqven ambobT – ,`vefxistyaosniT~ unda iarsebo, es Cveni identobis kodia – amis gaTavisebisaTvis ra migaCniaT aucileblad?
– vfiqrob, am kiTxvas, zemoT ukve vupasuxe. faqtobrivad, diax, `vefxistyaosani~ aris Cveni identobis kodi, amis gasaazreblad da dasamkvidreblad ki aucileblad mimaCnia misi srulfasovani swavleba saSualo skolaSi. erTxans dava iyo atexili, romel klasSi eswavlebinaT `vefxistyaosani~. me, piradad, poema merve klasSi viswavle da viswavle ise, rom dResac maSindeli naswavli mexmareba studentebTan leqciebis dros. dReis gadasaxedidan, vfiqrob, umjobesia `vefxistyaosani~ iswavlebodes damamTavrebel klasSi, magram ufro meti saaTis daTmobiT da srulyofili meTodologiiT.
– ganaTlebis sferoSi Tqveni gamocdebidan ra daaskveniT, ratom xdeba aucilebeli abiturientTa momzadeba da ratom ar SeuZlia skolas am funqciis Sesruleba?
– imaSi, rom damamTavrebel klasSi moswavle damatebiT iRebdes codnas umaRles saswavlebelSi Sesasvlelad, sagangaSo araferia. didi xania, es praqtika CvenSi damkvidrebulia. ufro SemaSfoTebeli problema isaa, rom Tanamedrove skola Tavisi absurduli mimarTulebebiT da saocari biurokratiuli qaRaldomaniiT – (amis Sesatyvisad gamodgeba albaT `eleqtrofostamania~), rasac miaqvs skolis direqciisa da maswavleblebis droc, yuradRebac da mimarTulebebis prioritetulobac, yuradRebis gareSe tovebs umTavress, moswavlis codnis xarisxs, ris gamoc bavSvebs ama Tu im saganSi momzadeba sWirdebaT ukve dawyebiTi klasebidan. pirdapir vityvi – modeli am sajaro skolisa aris Sesacvleli da Tavidan gasaazrebeli.
– tradicia da dRevandeloba ramdenad SeTavsebadia? lxinisa da Wiris gadametebiT gamomxatveli sufrebi, xazgasmuli glova, Tundac wlobiT Savis tareba. . .
– tradicia da Tanadrouloba, es metad aqtualuri sakiTxia. aris mTeli rigi tradiciebisa, romelsac margalitiviT unda vufrTxildebodeT, magram aseve aris rigi tradiciebisa, daviwyebas rom unda mieces. maT ricxvSia glovasTan dakavSirebuli ritualebi. . . mravalricxovani qelexis momxre arasodes vyofilvar, magram miuxedavad amisa, Cems mSoblebs swored aseTi mravalricxovani qelexi gadavuxade, radgan maT ase undodaT da Tanac im droSi Tu amas ar gaakeTebdi, sazogadoebis gansjis sagnad iqceodi. axla SedarebiT icvleba damokidebulebebi am TvalsazrisiT, rac Zalian kargia. vTvli, rom samaris karamde adamiani unda gaacilos sazogadoebis im nawilma, vinc amas aucileblad miiCnevs, magram sufrasTan unda dajdes mxolod da mxolod viwro wre. rac exeba Savebs, aqac gadaWarbeba vicodiT. Cems bavSvobasa da axalgazrdobaSi es iyo kanoni, rom qvrivsa da Svilmkvdar dedas Savi sicocxlis bolomde unda cmodaT da Tu amas ar gaakeTebdnen, erTgvari bulingis Tu ara kritikis obieqtad namdvilad iqceodnen. axla damokidebulebebi am mxrivac Seicvala da amas mivesalmebi. glovasac zomiereba sWirdeba. iseT adamianebsac vicnobdi, Svilis sikvdilis Semdeg samsaxurSi TeTri perangebiT rom dadiodnen, magram saxlSi mwuxarebis morevSi iyvnen CaZirulebi. es imdenad piradulia, Znelia vinmes raime ukarnaxo, mxolod erTs SevniSnav, roca adamiani mixvdeba, rom Savi samosi amZimebs, sazogadoebis xaTriT Tu `SiSiT~ ar unda ataros.
– aforizmebi, romlebic unda gvaxsovdes. . .
– Cemi sadoqtoro disertacia swored aforizmebs Seexeboda Zvel qarTul mwerlobaSi da rogorc maSin cnobili mkvlevarebi Tvlidnen, am TvalsazrisiT aforistikis, rogorc mecnierebis dargis ganviTarebis saqmeSi erTgvar sawyisad moiazreboda. dRemde gamoucemeli damrCa yvela qarTveli mwerlis aforizmebis krebuli dawyebuli iakob curtavelidan, Cveni Taobis mwerlebiT damTavrebuli da Sesabamisad, am sakiTxSi sakmao codna maqvs. Znelia romelimes gamoyofa, miuxedavad amisa, vaxtang meeqvsis `Segonebas~ xSirad viyeneb xolme leqciebzec da pirad saubrebSic, sadac es didi moRvawe adamianis movaleobaze saubrobs. adamianma unda icxovros ise, rom `saxelis xe saCrdileblad wylisa pirsa sa(d)me dargos~.
– rogor gesaxebaT wignis momavali da misi transformacia, ras urCevdiT axalgazrdebs sulieri srulyofisTvis?
– sakuTar SviliSvilTanac ki xSirad miwevs axsna-ganmarteba, rom kompiuteri kargia bevri TvalsazrisiT, magram uSualod wignis furclebidan kiTxvas veraferi Seedreba. am ramdenime wlis win amerikelma stumarma, axalgazrda ganaTlebulma kacma Cemi biblioTekis naxvisas sruliad seriozulad mkiTxa: -ki magram, rad gindaT amdeni wigni, roca es yvelaferi ai, – da miCvena e.w. `fleSka~, rac manamde ar menaxa, – amaze daeteva? maSin mivxvdi, saiT miveqanebodiT, stumars ki mxolod is vuTxari, rom misi patara nivTi verasodes agrZnobinebda adamians imas, rasac es wignebi. marTlac, gavida ramdenime dRe da is gangeb daviswari Cems megobrebTan dialogze igive biblioTekaSi da saubari gadavitaneT amerikul literaturaze. aRmoCnda, rom misi literaturuli ganaTleba edgar pos `yorans~ ver cdeboda. mas didi klasikosebis nawilis gvarebi gaegona da meti araferi. roca Cven am avtorebze davuwyeT saubari, maSin Tqva: – axla mivxvdi, ras niSnavs es biblioTeka, me am codnis dasagroveblad albaT sami sicocxle ar meyofao. ase rom, ar SeiZleba yvelaferi gadmoviRoT ucxouridan, Cven unda SevinarCunoT is, riTac aqamde movediT, erT-erTi ki wignis siyvarulia.
– marTlmetyvelebis da, saerTod qarTuli enis dasacavad ra SeiZleba viRonoT?
– marTlmetyvelebis sakiTxi dRes upirvelesia. am TvalsazrisiT, arsebul doneze dasabruneblad bevri ramaa saWiro da upirvelesad, enis siwmindis dacvis saxelmwifo dawesebulebis gegmazomierad muSaoba. adre amas enis palata akeTebda. gansakuTrebuli yuradReba televiziebs unda mieqces. iq wamyvanad ar unda gvevlinebodnen wamyvanebi, romlebic, sruli gadaWarbebis gareSe rom vTqva, ryvnian qarTul enas. dawesebulebebSi konkursebis gamocxadebisas, aseve, erT-erTi umTavresi piroba unda iyos saxelmwifo enis srulyofilad codna. gasakeTebeli am mxriv Zalze bevria.
– Tqven bevr axalgazrdas gaukvaleT gza da axlac megzurobT. .. am bolo dros kidev erTi talanti aRmoaCineT, ara?
– talantebis siuxve da maTTan urTierToba Cemi cxovrebis mTavar monapovrad mimaCnia. swored am intervius werisas amomigdo feisbuqma erTi wlis win `literaturul gazeTSi~ dabeWdila leqso kakiaSvilis moTxrobebi. leqso mkiTxvelma Tqveni gazeTis meSveobiTac gaicno, risTvisac me gansakuTrebul madlierebas mogaxsenebT, amitom masze aRar SevCerdebi. Cems sxva `literaturul Svilobilebze~ minda ori sityvis Tqma: eka lacabiZe, axalgazrda xaSureli gogonaa, profesiiT iuristi, advokatia. gasul wels araCveulebrivi wigni gamosca, romelsac `advokatis Canawerebi~ daarqva. saocari nawarmoebebia am wignSi Tavmoyrili. vTvli, rom vinc am wigns gaecnoba, did siamovnebas miiRebs. maiko wiqariSvili jer 25 wlisaa. wels daasrula magistratura ivane javaxiSvilis saxelobis Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetSi. saintereso leqsebs wers da beWdavs. `literaturul gazeTSi~ bolos misi SesaniSnavi minimebi daibeWda. aseve, saintereso leqsebs weren Cemi studentebi naTia tatiaSvili, Tornike CxikvaZe, qristine maxaraSvili, aRarafers vambob ukve aRiarebul poetebsa da mTargmnelebze, romelTa bavSvobamac Cems xelSi gaiara: giorgi lobJaniZeze, cira barbaqaZeze, eka baqraZeze, TaTia mTvareliZeze. maTi Semoqmedeba ara marto saqarTveloSi, mis farglebs gareTac aris cnobili.
– kidev riT gagvakvirvebs murad mTvareliZe?
– gakvirvebisa ra mogaxsenoT, magram gegmebi kvlav bevria. ramdenime wigni gamzadebuli devs. maT Sorisaa am saSineli pandemiis Temaze dawerili romani `koron Ada~, goris saxelmwifo universitetis gamomcemloba, aseve, wels gamoscems Zvel qarTul mwerlobaSi moxseniebul pirTa analitikur leqsikons, gegmebi aris, mTavaria, qveyanaSi iyos simSvide da stabiluroba.
– sityvebi, romelTa leqsikonidan amoRebas yvelas urCevdiT. ..
– upirveles yovlisa barbarizmebi, es ucxouri sityvebi, romlebic, samwuxarod, ase fexmokidebulia Cvens axalgazrdebSi. konkretulad ar davasaxeleb. isini, ZiriTadad, axal teqnologiebs ukavSirdeba da am terminebis qarTul TavsarT-bolosarTebTan mierTeba, simarTle giTxraT, aramcTu yurs cudad mxvdeba, Zalian maRizianebs kidec, am dros Cven gvaqvs Sesabamisi terminebi da Tu ara gvaqvs, unda vecadoT, SevqmnaT rame iseTi, rac qarTul leqsikas moergeba. da Tu mainc saWiroa sityvis dasaxeleba, leqsikidan amoviRebdi sityvas `prezentacia~, gvaqvs misi Semcvleli sityva `wardgineba~, samwuxarod, aseTebi bevria.
– raze gawuxebT da ra gtkivaT yvelaze metad?
– yvelaze metad? piradi sawuxari aq ra mosatania, Cveni cxovreba xSirad aris bevri tkiviliT savse, zogad sawuxarze mogaxsenebT, – gaucxoeba, gaTiTokaceba, erTgvari sicive adamianTa Soris, erovnuli niSan-Tvisebebisagan daSoreba, ojaxis siwmindis rRveva. . . romeli erTi CamovTvalo!. .
– adamianebi, romlebic Tqveni STagonebis wyarod iqcnen?
– gansakuTrebuli madloba am kiTxvisTvis, magram Cemi leqsebis STamagoneblebs amjerad gverds avuvli da getyviT, rom cxovrebis sxvadasxva etapze sxvadasxva STagoneba eZleva adamians, mowafeobis dros Cemi STagoneba Cemi qarTulis maswavlebeli iyo, studentobisa da Semdgom wlebSi Cemi cxovrebis gzis gamkvlevni – profesorebi daviT TevzaZe da revaz baramiZe is adamianebi iyvnen, visac vbaZavdi, romelTa msgavsi mindoda vyofiliyavi, isini STamagonebdnen, pirvel rigSi, Sromismoyvareobas, zneobas, keTilsindisierebas, profesionalizms, sxvebze zrunvas, ar vici, es yvelaferi ramdenad gamomivida, magram mcdeloba ar damiklia.
– dRes tyviasac brmad isvrian da, sityvasac, iqneb gongis Semokvraa saWiro?
– gongis Semokvra maSin aris saWiro, roca eri ,,mamulisad svlas“ ascdeba. amis magaliTebi qarTul mwerlobaSi gvaqvs da is ukavSirdeba jer ioane sabanisZes da Semdeg ilias, magram zari rom Semohkra, amisTvis eris wylulic unda gtkiodes da didic iyo. vnatrob, gamoCndes adamiani, visac am saero zarTa dagugunebis ufleba eqneba da eric mas gahyveba. samwuxarod, dRes aseTs ver vxedav.
– fraza, romliTac daasrulebdiT am intervius. . .
– `mTavari mainc mamuli aris, gansacvifreblad aris mTavari~. – dRes galaktionis es Segoneba Tu umTavresad ar gavixadeT, momavalisken ver gavixedavT.
