,,მე სრულიად საქართველო ვარ”…
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
am sityvebis Tqmis ufleba namdvilad aqvs afxazi muhajirebis pirdapir STamomavals, ZirZvel baTumels, baTumis sapatio moqalaqes, cnobil mweral anzor kudbas, romlis Sinaarsiani, saintereso cxovreba da Semoqmedeba sazogadoebis pativiscemas imsaxurebs. amjerad, sazogadoebis yuradReba `afxazeTis dReebis~ aRsaniSnav RonisZiebebSi Tavisi aqtiurobiTa da poziciiT miipyro. rogor xedavs is qarTul-afxazuri problemis gadawyvetis gzebs, ra siaxlea mis SemoqmedebaSi da ra gzavnilebs ugzavnis mkiTxvelebs? – swored amis garkveva iyo Cveni saubris mizani. maS ase, Cveni stuamria anzor kudba.
– batono anzor, mas Semdeg, rac Cvens gazeTs stumrobdiT, didi dro gavida, pandemiis periodidan dawyebuli, dRemde, ra SegiZliaT gviTxraT am Cavlil dReebze?
– is periodi, marTlac, WiriviT moixada kacobriobam. sad aRar SeaRwia misma momakvdinebelma sacecebma da moasoromgoroma Cveni codvili saaqao. aba, vis aRar daatyda Tavs kovid-19-is risxva. zogs smena daaklda, zogs – mxedveloba, zogs – piris gemo, magram imedi mainc ver Cagvikla sulSi. didi iyo msxverpli, lamis gaugonari, magram am avadsaxsenebelma virusma moiTava Tavisi saqme da gardavida TviTon. kacobriobam, dedamiwam gaiRo Tavisi msxverpli da senic dagvexsna.
– Tqveni adre gamoqveynebuli romanebi `apokalifsi~, `uJamo Jami~, `fiqris savarZeli~, `didi wvimis simfonia~ dRevandel realobas gvaCvenebs. . . iwinaswarmetyveleT?
– rogor giTxraT. . . yvela didi nawarmoebis avtori TavisTavad naTelmxilvelia, TviTon nawarmoebi – winaswarmetyveluri. Tuki mweralma Tavisi awmyo zedmiwevniT aRwera, es igivea, daexmaro mkiTxvels, rom momavalSi SeiWvritos. didi mwerlebi droSi mogzaurobdnen, sivrce maT ar abrkolebdaT. bevri winaswarmetyveli hyolia kacobriobas. winaswarmetyvelebi iyvnen homerosi, rusTaveli, platoni, dante aligieri, goeTe. . .
– rogorc TqviT, axali romani dagiweriaT, mkiTxveli rodis da sad ixilavs mas?
– ramdenime nawarmoebi, ukve dasabeWdad gamzadebuli, xelSeuxeblad midevs da Tavis dros elis. erTic `Cemi sauflodan~, `WoroxSia~ da gamoqveynebaRaa saWiro. Cems sxva gamouqveynebel romanebsac CamogiTvliT: `iqmenin naTeli~ (`iyo da ara iyo ra~), `didi mdinareba~, `. . .da dro gveuaresa~. . ., `WvaTiris wyali~, `glaxa~ (reqviemi), `JamTaamRwereli~.
dRes dasabeWdad vamzadeb kidev erT romans: `da iyo azor. . .~ rodis ixilavs am nawarmoebebs mkiTxvelio? – mekiTxebiT da ar vici, ra gipasuxoT. misi aRmatebuleba sponsori ar Cans. . . ase rom, cnobil mwerlebsac unda hqondeT iRbali, rom Tavi Rirseulad warmoaCinon.
– `gamarjoba, afxazeTo, Seni!~. . . es slogani am dReebSi afxazeTis tragediis 30 wlisTavze mediasivrcesa da sazogadoebaSi xSirad ismoda. Tqven, rogorc afxazobis warmomadgeneli, rogor xedavT qveynis momavals afxazeTTan dakavSirebiT?
– me im afxazi muhajirebis pirdapiri STamomavali var, vinc rusma dampyroblebma agvyares da mogvwyvites mSobliur miwas. vin sad damkvidrda? erTi nawili aWaram Segvifara, sarCo-sabadebeli gagviCina. amas ra dagvaviwyebs?! axla aq, aWaraSi vsaxlobT da poet mamia varSaniZis ar iyos, ,, mze aq SegviCerebia~. ase rom, gavSinaurdiT aWaraSi da rogorc bevri sxva, mec Sereuli ojaxidan var. mama afxazi myavda, deda ki qarTveli. amitomac vacxadeb xmamaRla: me sruliad saqarTvelo var da, raRa Tqma unda, qarTul-afxazuri konfliqti, swored rom saukunis tragedia, CemTvis orjer ufro Znelad gadasatani darCa: afxazs klavdnen da CemSi afxazi kvdeboda, qarTvels klavdnen da qarTveli kvdeboda CemSi. 27 seqtembers afxazeTis tragediis 30 wlisTavze, baTumis navsadguris midamoebSi SevikribeT afxazebi da qarTvelebi. gvyavda stumrebi Tbilisidan. pativi mivageT ZmaTamkvlel omSi daRupulTa xsovnas. dRes ukve naTelia yvelasaTvis: sanam ar SevrigdebiT odiTganve sisxlismieri Zmebi – afxazebi da qarTvelebi, manamde momavali arcerTs ar gviweria. saqarTvelo uafxazeTod da afxazeTi usaqarTvelod yovlad warmoudgenelia! es unda gavacnobieroT orive mxarem.
– roca istoriis samanebSi mogzaurobT. . .
– Cveni sulmnaTi sulxan-saba orbeliani evropisken gaeSura, raTa saerTo qarTuli gasaWiris Sesaxeb ecnobebina safrangeTis didi mefis ludoviko meToTxmetisaTvis, rom SeZlebisamebr dagvxmareboda, mfarveloba gaewia CvenTvis, magram ludovikom sulxan-sabas naxvac ar indoma. sulxan-sabam Tavisi istoriuli misiis gansaxorcieleblad kaTolikobac ki miiRo. xom ganwiruli iyo TviTon sulxan-saba, ase ganwiruli gaxldaT saqarTveloc. samSobloSi mobrunebuli sulxan-saba TanamoZmeebma aRar daindes, sul TmebiT aTries, marTlmadidebloba dagitevebia da CvenTvis saZulveli kaTolikoba migiRiao. tiroda sulxan-saba, cremlebad iRvrebda ara imitom, rom tkioda, aramed imitom, rom mTeli misi mcdeloba, eSvela Tavisi dacemuli da miwasTan gasworebuli mamulisTvis, amao gamodga. tiroda sulxan-saba. . . da dResac, dResac gvawvims misi cremlebi. . .
mere iyo mefe erekle meore. . . oTxmoci brZola gadaixada erekle mefem da mixvda, rom saqarTvelo awi veRar gaumklavdeboda aRmosavleTidan momxdur mters da mfarveloba ruseTs sTxova. mere matiane mogviTxrobs, ra gviWirda da gviWirda sinamdvileSi. xom ar gecnobaT, xalxno, erekles droindeli saqarTvelos yofa? xom ar Camohgavs igi Cvens dRevandelobas? dResac bewvis xidzea Semdgari saqarTvelo da. . . RmerTi iyos Cveni Semwe da mfarveli. . . diax, dResac gvawvims sabas cremlebi.
– Tqven kargad icnobdiT saxelovan mwerlebs, moigoneT ramdenime gamorCeuli, rogorebi iyvnen realur cxovrebaSi?
– diax, iyvnen, cxovrobdnen da moRvaweobdnen gamorCeuli adamianebi. . . Tvalwin midgas aleqsandre (ali) samsonia – prozaikosi da sazogado moRvawe, baTumSi moqmedi akademiis (aWaris inteligenciis, safixvnos) sulisCamdgmeli. akademiaSi, rogorc dRes, maSinac `Wiqa yavaze~ vbWobdiT Cveni qveynis awmyosa da momavalze. . . zurab gorgilaZe! WeSmariti poeti. misi saxeli ukve quxda sruliad saqarTveloSi. `ohoi nana~ xom Sedevria da aWaris himnad iqca. xom didi poeti iyo batoni zurabi, magram yovelTvis uWirda materialurad. erTi megobari hyavda – demur tyeSeliaZe, Cveni akademiis namdvili wevri, swored rom gaWirvebis talkvesi iyo Cveni mwerlebisTvis. hoda, erTxel Cvens zurabs paemani hqonda erT turfa asulTan, magram sapaemnod Sesaferisi tansacmeli sad unda eSovna `sabWoTa poets~?! mSvelelad demur tyeSeliaZe gamouCnda: Caacv-daaxura Cvens zurabs. akademiis kibeze rom Cadioda paemanze mimavali, marTlac, dendi zurabi, demuris xma gaigona: – zurabav, vinmem demuri rom dagiZaxos, ukan ar miixedoo. . . ho, es namdvilad ase iyo. . . iyvnen fridon xalvaSi, mamia varSaniZe, lado seidiSvili, romlebic ase amSvenebdnen Cvens baTum-qalaqs – wvimian mzianeTs. iyo CvenSi kidev erTi cnobili persona – batoni arCil totoCava. otecas veZaxdiT axloblebi. swored rom cocxali, mosiarule enciklopedia gaxldaT. icoda yvelaferi. . . uyvarda poezia da iyo kidec poeturi sulis matarebeli, amaRlebuli kaci! werda leqsebs, magram ar aqveynebda. SevuCndiT erTxel da Jurnal `WoroxSi~ gamovaqveynebineT leqsebis cikli `zRvis napirze akrefili kenWebi~. `WoroxSive~ daibeWda Sileris filosofiuri werilebis miseuli Targmani germanulidan. swored rom didebuli meqarTule iyo batoni arCili. stilisti gaxldaT gazeT `aWaraSi~.
– ra azris xarT Tanamedrove konkursebsa da festivalebze?
– am konkursebsa da festivalebze monawileobisas SeiZleba Sors gavitanoT Cveni Semoqmedeba, Rirseuladac Segvafason da gvaRiaron, magram saxelmwifo struqturebi am metad mniSvnelovan RonisZiebebSi zedmetad ar unda ereodnen. maT diqtati sulac ar gvepitnaveba mwerlebs. Cven maTi daxmareba gvWirdeba da ara maTi Wkuis darigeba-swavleba.
– prozaikosebis axali Taoba modis, maT Soris baTumSic, Tqveni yuradReba vin miipyro?
– baTumi da Cveni garemo, saerTod, ufro poeturia, vidre prozauli, Tumca gamoCndebian mainc prozaikosebi, prozaSi TiTo-orolani Tu rCebian. . . romelma miipyro Cemi yuradReba? – mzia salvariZem! waikiTxeT misi ori wlis win gamoqveynebuli wigni `ar gadagvqarTulda~
da darwmundebiT Cemi sityvebis sisworeSi. warmatebas vusurveb mzia salvariZes! aq mkiTxvelis sayuradRebod ase vityodi mzia salvariZis prozaSi poeti SeigrZnoba da es maxarebs da meimedeba. da kidev: `Saragzaze daoTxili (morbenali) striqoni, Tuki mas leqsis suni ar asdis, male gadaiRleba da sadme, sadRac dasakargavSi daimarxavs Tavs~ – ase brZanebs didi iaponeli mwerali riunoske akutagava `prozis aT mcnebaSi~.
– `rameTu mSvidi var da mdabali guliT~. . . roca am saxarebiseul sibrZneze fiqrobT. . .
– es amonaridi saxarebidan sayovelTaod mSvidobisa da siyvarulis sawindaria, adamianTa modgmis amaRlebas moaswavebs, mis usasrulobasTan SerTvas, ukvdavebasTan ziarebas. unda gavacnobieroT, rom Cven – adamianebi dedamiwis Svilebi varT, cisieri ieric dagvkravs. . . sworedac rom dedamiwelebi varT zeciuri siwmindiT mironcxebulni.
– kataklizmebis droSi vcxovrobT, stiqiuri da socialuri ubedurebis fonze adamianisTvis mTavar maSvel rgolad ra gesaxebaT?
– Cven, adamianebi, RvTis Svilebi varT, Zveli aRTqmac maradis Segvaxsenebs, rom RmerTma adamiani Seqmna Tavis xatad da saxebad da ratom gvaviwydeba bibliuri Segoneba `giyvardes moyvasi Seni!~ an kidev: `erT loyaze rom Semogkran, meore loyac miuSvire!~ unda gvaxsovdes, adamiano, Seni ubedureba Cemi ubedurebacaa, Seni bedniereba – Cemi! moviSvelioT es Segoneba da veraviTari kataklizma da seni ver mogvereva! RmerTisken. . . uflisken mimaval gzas Senive guli migagnebinebs. miende guls da sulic giwinamZRvrebs.
– kidev ras gvetyodiT, ra kiTxvis dasmas isurvebdiT?
– adamiani (bibliac ase ubnobs) odiTganve scodavso da Tavsac ase vimSvidebT: codvebio. . . da isev vcodavT. da mainc: rodemde unda vcodoT, adamianebo da ar vinaniebdeT?! xedavT, ufali mimetevebelia da Cven – adamianebma ratom ver unda mivutevoT erTmaneTs?!
