,,ახალი მსოფლიო წესრიგი ან სრულად დააბრუნებს ომებს და დაპყრობას მსოფლიო პოლიტიკაში ან კიდევ უფრო შეზღუდავს მას”
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axlo aRmosavleTSi bolo dros ganviTarebuli dramatuli movlenebi gulgrils aravis tovebs: `hamasma~ israelis mimarT ara mxolod teroristuli aqtebi ganaxorciela, aramed uprecedento saraketo dartymebi awarmoa mis mimarT. aTasobiT daRupuli, asobiT mZevlad ayvanili, rom aRaraferi vTqvaT daWrilebze, imas cxadyofs, rom regioni farTomasStabiani omis zRvarzea. sapasuxod israeli Razis seqtorSi samxedro operaciis Catarebas apirebs teroristuli Zalebis saboloo ganadgurebisaTvis, rac bevr kiTxvas aCens: ramdenad mosalodnelia `hamasi~-israelis samxedro konfliqti ramdenimeTvian omSi gadaizardos? CaerTveba Tu ara masSi sxvadasxva saxelmwifo? ra procesebi warimarTeba regionSi uaxloes momavalSi? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze saubrisTvis saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis specialists, saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv saqmeTa institutis (jipa) profesor giorgi koberiZes mivmarTeT.
– bolo 50 wlis ganmavlobaSi israelis uprecedento sisustis mowmeni gavxdiT, mis teritiriaze `hamasma~ teroristuli aqtebi da saraketo dabombvebi ganaxorciela, es risi maniSnebelia?
– israelma daumarcxeblobis 70 weliwadi gamoiara. aman qveyana daarwmuna, rom masze Tavdasxmas veravin gabedavda. mxolod erTxel mouvida msgavsi SemTxveva – 1973 wels, iom qifuris omis win israels egona, rom misi damarcxeba SeuZlebeli iqneboda da sakmaod mSvidad iyo, magram maSinac Secda, Tumca sabolood gamarjveba moipova.
– Razis seqtorSi saxmeleTo operacia ramdenime dRiT gadaido, ra gaxda amis realuri mizezi?
– Razis seqtori betonis junglebia. iq gadaadgileba da sabrZolo operaciis Catareba Zalian did sirTuleebTan aris dakavSirebuli. urbanuli brZola yvelaze rTulia. amas emateba miwisqveSa katakombebi da gvirabebi, romlebsac `hamasi~ iyenebs. israeli yvela detals swavlobs, emzadeba. naCqarevi operacia SeiZleba safrTxis Semcveli iyos.
– samxedro eqspertTa nawili Tvlis, rom israelis armiis SesvliT RazaSi, yvelaferi ar dasruldeba, ras fiqrobT?
– teritoriis xangrZlivi droiT okupacia gaWirdeba rogorc kontrolis TvalsazrisiT, ise saerTaSoriso zewolis gamo. 2.3 milioni adamiani cxovrobs Zalian patara, 365 kvadratuli kilometris zonaSi. seqtori sigrZeSi 40 kilometria. aseT viwro monakveTze ebraul armias permanentuli kontrolis gaweva mouwevs, radgan yvela mxridan SeiZleba modiodes safrTxe, magram `hamasis~ mebrZolebis da misi liderebis ganadgurebiT israeli Tavisi samxedro amocanis ori nawilis Sesrulebas SeZlebs: 1. dasjis mowinaaRmdeges, romelmac mSvidobiani mosaxleoba daxoca da gaitaca (zogadad, dausjelobis precedenti axalisebs Zaladobas); 2. teroristuli organizacia imdenad dasustdeba, rom misi xelaxla Seqmna Zalian did drosTan iqneba dakavSirebuli. Tuki `hamasi~ marTlac damarcxdeba, Razelebma SeiZleba aRarc moisurvon misi dabruneba. rogorc unda moxdes, teritoriis xangrZlivi droiT kontroli mainc rTuli da naklebad sasurveli iqneba israelisTvis.
– realurad aris Tu ara mzad israeli Razis seqtorSi saxmeleTo operaciis Casatareblad?
– im TvalsazrisiT, rom am operaciisaTvis emzadeboda da savaraudod, emzadeba kidec `hamasi,~ israeli SesaZloa mzadaa, magram maqsimalurad surs yvela samxedro da politikuri riskis gaTvaliswineba.
– gadaizrdeba `hamasi~-israelis omi ufro farTomasStabian omSi arabuli qveynebis, iranis da sxva saxelmwifoebis monawileobiT?
– naklebad savaraudoa. iranma Tavisi upirvelesi amocana Seasrula: regionSi yvela radikalisa da israelis moZule Zalis liderad iqca, meore amocana ki israelis arabuli saxelmwifoebis mxridan aRiarebisa da masTan urTierTobis normalizaciis SeCereba iyo. am mizansac mokle vadaSi, rogorc Cans, miaRwia. iranis pirdapir israelSi SeWra naklebad savaraudoa. amis teqnikuri SesaZleblobac naklebia. siriisa da libanis garda misi samxedroebi versad ganTavsdebian. Tuki am ori qveynidan romelimem israelis sazRvarTan iraneli samxedroebi ganaTavsa, es israelisaTvis da aSS-isaTvis ar darCeba SeumCneveli.
– Tu omi gaxangrZlivda, ramdenad SeZlebs aSS erTdroulad israelis da ukrainis daxmarebas?
– aSS Tavisi samxedro da ekonomikuri SesaZleblobebiT supersaxelmwifoa. mas SeuZlia, ramdenime wertilSi erTdroulad awarmoos omi, axla ki oms ki ar awarmoebs, ubralod, exmareba. amitom es ufro politikuri nebis sakiTxia. Tuki politikuri neba aSS-Si SenarCunebda, mas ukrainisa da israelisaTvis daxmarebis aRmoCena ar gauWirdeba.
– jer adrea daskvnebis gamotana, magram… vin riT moigo an waago am omSi?
– jerjerobiT iranma da misma koaliciam israels mniSvnelovani dartyma miayenes. israelis samxedro-politikuri poziciebi jer kidev araa aRdgenili. amisaTvis mas jer `hamasis~ ganadgureb, an ukiduresad dasusteba mouwevs, xolo grZelvadianad – `hesbolas~ problemis gadaWra. meore mxriv, israelis mTavrobis lideri beniamin neTaniahu sakmaod rTul viTarebaSi aRmoCnda. mas mosaxleobis nawili pasuxs sTxovs, Tu rogor moxda, rom israels gamoepara `hamasis~ Tavdasxma. aseve, mniSvnelovania isic, rom palestinis sakiTxi miviwyebuli iyo bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi, magram axla dasavlur sazogadoebaSi kvlav gaaqtiura da am Temaze msjeloba. Sesabamisad, arabul samyaroSi cdiloben am Sansis gamoyenebas da palestinis sakiTxze msjelobis gagrZelebas moiTxoven. jer mainc adrea saboloo Sefasebebis gakeTeba. arc is unda dagvaviwydes, rom israels aqvs Sansi, iranis sapirispirod Seqmnas axali dasavluri koalicia, radgan xazs usvams, rom am yvelafris ukan iranuli Zalebic dganan. Sesabamisad, es israelisaTvisacaa Sansi, kidev erTxel gazardos zewola iranze. arc isaa dasaviwyebeli, rom aSS-is demokratiul partiaSi am ambebis dawyebamde bevri palestinas TanaugrZnobda, axla ki TandaTan Seicvala ganwyobebi.
– ruseT–ukrainis omi, israelis winaaRmdeg mimarTuli agresia – es civilizaciaTa dapirispirebaa demokratiul sistemasa da totalitarul reJimebs Soris?
– SesamCnevi erTia: oms awarmoebs ruseTi. ruseTis umTavresi mokavSireebi ki irani da CrdiloeT koreaa. faqtia, rom es ori qveyana totalitaruli da mCagvrelia. Sesabamisad, ruseTi, irani da CrdiloeT korea axla erT navSi sxedan.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT Cvens regionSi mimdinare movlenebs, somxeTi distancirebas cdilobs ruseTisgan, am mxriv, ra berketebi rCeba kremls somxeTze zemoqmedebisTvis?
– rogorc Cans, faSinianis revoluciis gziT damxoba ver moxerxda. yarabaRis Tema israelma gadafara. es azerbaijanisaTvis erTgvari miswreba iyo, Tumca ucnauria isic, rom Tuki TurqeTi israels akritikebs, misi mTavari mokavSire, azerbaijani – israels uWers mxars. somxeTisaTvis axla ruseTs ar scalia, magram qveyanaSi myofma rusulma nawilebma faSinianis mowinaaRmdegeebs kidev ufro Riad rom dauWiron mxari, arc eg iqneba moulodneli, an sulac azerbaijanis waqezebas Seecados somxeTis teritoriis siRrmeSi e.w. zangezuris derefanSi SesvlisaTvis, magram, savaraudoa, rom baqoSi racionalurad Sexvdebian am yvelafers da ar dahyvebian ruseTis mxridan axali omis raime formiT mxardaWeras.
– udavoa, rom ruseTi, irani da garkveulwilad, TurqeTic ewinaaRmdegebian samxreT kavkasiaSi dasavleTis gavlenis gazrdas, Tqveni azri rogoria amis Sesaxeb?
– yvelas Tavisi interesi aqvs da es gasakviri ar aris. saqarTvelos interesi TanxvedraSi namdvilad ver iqneba verc rusul da verc iranul interesebTan, radgan orive egzistencialur safrTxes uqmnis saqarTvelos arsebobas. TurqeTTan savaWo da satransporto kavSirebi gvaqvs da asec unda gagrZeldes, magram politikuri TvalsazrisiT, Cveni interesebi, metwilad, saerToa dasavleTTan. Sesabamisad, swored masTan urTierTobaze unda gakeTdes aqcenti. realurad, dasavluri saxelmwifoebi ekonomikuri da politikuri TvalsazrisiT swored, is qveynebia, romelTa msgavsadac vcdilobT Camoyalibebas. rodesac vambobT, rom gvinda viyoT Zlieri evropuli saxelmwifo, amaSi warmatebuli ekonomika da jansaRi, stabiluri politikuri garemo igulisxmeba, rac regionSi misabaZ saxelmwifod Camogvayalibebs.
– Zveli msoflio wesrigi dairRva, axali ki jer ar Seqmnila, uaxloes momavalSi ras unda velodoT da am mxriv Cveni qveynis momavali rogor gesaxebaT?
– axali msoflio wesrigi an srulad daabrunebs dapyrobiT omebs msoflio politikaSi, an kidev, ufro SezRudavs mas. gaaCnia romeli mxare moigebs omebs. Tuki ruseTma gamarjvebis precedenti Seqmna da teritoriebi ZaliT daipyro, sxva, araerTi, saxelmwifo mibaZavs ruseTs da Tavadac igives Caidens. saqarTvelo unda ufrTxodes am scenars, radgan Cveni regioni arcTu megobruli interesebis gadakveTaze mdebareobs.
