არქეოლოგია – ძიებისა და აღმოჩენების დაუსრულებელი სამყარო თორნიკე მამისეიშვილისთვის
nana abulaZe 577 20 35 90 –
arqeologi, aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentos mecnieri TanamSromeli, baTumis me-10 skolis istoriis maswavlebeli Tornike mamiseiSvili mTel Zalisxmevas arCeul profesias axmars da sxvebisTvisac xdeba magaliTi, Tu rogori unda iyos adamiani, romelsac Tavisi saqme uyvars da eamayeba. ambobs, rom pataraobidanve cnobismoyvare iyo, skolis periodSic, manamdec da axlac, yovelTvis icoda da icis, rom dinji, dafiqrebuli svliT ipovi gzas, romelic adre Tu gvian aucileblad migiyvans gamarjvebamde. dRes igi gazeT `aWaris~ stumaria.
– profesiis arCevisas, vfiqrob, geqnebodaT sruli Tavisufleba. ratom – arqeologia?
– zustad, arCevanis Tavisufleba ikveTeba Cemi profesiis arCevaSi, radgan arqeologia iseTi mimarTulebaa, Sen Tu ar gsurs, aravin dagaZalebs, Tundac imitom, rom arapopularuli profesiaa, rogorc CvenTan ityvian xolme – dabalanazRaurebadi, ojaxis wevrebs ki yovelTvis hgoniaT, rom im profesiis unda iyo, romelic samomavlod „karg Semosavals“ mogitans. pataraobidanve Zalian cnobismoyvare viyavi, arqeologiac xom cnobismoyvareobaa warsulis Sesaxeb. bavSvobaSi, zafxulobiT ojaxis wevrebi suramSi visvenebdiT, xSirad vstumrobdiT suramis cixes. mec vixelTebdi xolme dros, koSkebze avZvrebodi, qongurebidan vixedebodi da aTasi kiTxva mitrialebda TavSi. saxlSi misuls, SeiZleba Rame ar damZineboda, mainteresebda – vin aaSena es cixe, ratom aaSena, am cixeSi moxda Tu ara romelime brZola, romeli mefe dadioda aq Tavis mebrZolebTan erTad da a.S. meore dRes moviZevdi informacias, vin icoda istoria kargad, mivakiTxavdi da, SeiZleba iTqvas, `tvins vuWamdi~ kiTxvebiT. xSirad mosabezrebelic vxvdebodi albaT, magram mainteresebda da cnobismoyvareobas Tu ar davikmayofilebdi, ver visvenebdi.
rodesac skolaSi eqskursiebi daviwyeT, sadac cixesimagres davinaxavdi, yvelgan avZvrebodi xolme da valodinebdi TanmxlebT. meSvide-merve klasidan arqeologobaze vocnebobdi da asec moxda. dedaqalaqSi miRebuli ganaTlebis Semdeg, Cems sayvarel baTums davubrundi da amJamad sakmaod karg dawesebulebaSi vmuSaob, romelic saSualebas maZlevs, ara mxolod arqeologiuri gaTxrebi Cavataro, aramed konferenciebSic miviRo monawileoba, naSromebi vwero da ase Semdeg. aseve, gvaqvs sakmaod saintereso saganmanaTleblo aqtivobebi, sadac bavSvebs vukmayofilebT interess arqeologiis garSemo. amitomac, rogorc aWaris sxvadasxva skolidan, aseve, sxva regionebidan Zalian bevri stumari gvstumrobs, maT Soris, ZiriTadad, bavSvebi, rac Zalian sasixaruloa CvenTvis.
– arqeologiuri kuTxiT, ra potenciali aqvs aWaris regions?
– rogorc saqarTvelos nebismier kuTxes, aWarasac am mxriv sakmaod didi potenciali aqvs. me rom saerTod araferi vTqva amis Sesaxeb, amas mowmobs is faqtic, rom uamravi qveynidan Camodian mkvlevrebi da aq iwyeben arqeologiur gaTxrebs. magaliTad, amJamad vmuSaobT polonelebTan erTad, iyvnen italielebi, germanelebi. fiWvnarSi didi britaneTidan muSaobda eqspedicia da es mxolod mcire CamonaTvalia. Zalian bevri qveynidan interesdebian Cveni mdidari istoriuli warsuliT.
– ra gancdebTan da emociebTan aris TqvenTvis dakavSirebuli arqeologiuri kvleva-Ziebis procesi da Tu arsebobs aRmoCena, romliTac gansakuTrebiT amayobT?
– yvela arqeologs Tavisi interesis sfero aqvs. Cven gvyavs arqeologebi, romlebic, magaliTad, muSaoben osmalur periodze, arian adamianebi, romlebic muSaoben romaul periodze. Cemi interesis sfero romauli periodis samSeneblo keramikaa, rac gulisxmobs agurs, kramits, imas, Tu rogor iyenebdnen mas mSeneblobaSi da ase Semdeg. rac Seexeba CemTvis erT-erT yvelaze mniSvnelovan aRmoCenas, ar momiwevs Soreul warsulSi gadasvla, am zafxuls aRmovaCineT aguri, romelzec datanilia damRa. es damRa niSnavs imas, rom nebismieri legioni, rodesac samSeneblo saqmianobas awarmoebda aguriT, an kramitiT, masalaze svamda Tavis damRas. Cem mier napovn agurze ewera `kohorta mesame sagi~. sagi – igive `sagitarius~ laTinurad mSvildosnebs niSnavs, anu mSvildosnebis mier iyo aSenebuli is konkretuli abano, romelic me aRmovaCine. es aRmoCena imitomac aris mniSvnelovani CemTvis, rom kvlevas kidev ufro gavaRrmaveb. moviZieb informacias mesame mSvildosanTa kohortis Sesaxeb. magaliTad: sad formirda, sad Seiqmna, vin iyvnen misi wevrebi, romeli erovnebis iyvnen. viciT, rom romaelebi ar arian mSvildosnebi da isini, ZiriTadad, maxviliTa da fariT arian SeiaraRebulni, amitom SeiZleba ufro aziis mxares unda veZebo, Cvens samezobloSi. zogadad, arqeologia TiTqmis yvelas oqros Zieba hgonia. arqeologiaze warmodgena Zalian daamaxinja holivudma, `netfliqsma~, cnobilma popularulma wignebma, serialebma da filmebma. reJisorisTvis jobs, rac ufro gakvirvebuli iqneba mayurebeli da mTeli emociiT gadaeSveba filmSi, magram am SemTxvevaSi xSirad xdeba realuri faqtebis damaxinjeba, rasac aravin aqcevs yuradRebas. bavSvebsac xSirad hgoniaT, rom ai, me amovTxri miwas, vipovi oqros da waviReb saxlSi. Cven vumtkicebT am bavSvebs, rom arqeologia, upirvelesad, aris mecniereba kulturuli fenebis Sesaxeb. swored es fenebi unda Seiswavlo jer. vuxsniT, rom nivTs, romelsac ipovis, im kulturul fenaSi aqvs Tavisi mniSvneloba, Torem iqidan rom amoiReb, ukve aRar aris saintereso. bavSvebs xSirad miTebs vumsxvrev, radgan yvelaferi ise ar aris, rogorc filmebSi aqvT nanaxi. samuSao velze aris mobezrebis SemTxvevebi, radgan oqro ver naxes, Tumca arqeologiasTan rac ufro axlos midian, maTi warmodgenac icvleba da farTovdeba, metad interesdebian. rogorc aRvniSne, aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis saagento aZlevs amis saSualebas axalgazrdebs. aris banakebi, saganmanaTleblo proeqtebi, sadac modian da sabaziso codnas iReben arqeologiis Sesaxeb, SemdgomSi ki Tavad gadawyveten, undaT gayvnen am profesias, Tu – ara.
– iyo arqeologi niSnavs. . .……
– iyo arqeologi niSnavs, eZebde jaWvis yovel detals, anu Cveni kacobrioba warmoqmnidan dRemde gadis garkveul etapebs da isini SegviZlia warmovidginoT rogorc jaWvi, cikli, magram Tuki romelime rgoli Camowydeba da moSordeba, jaWvi dairRveva. amitom arqeologia eZebs yovel detals. arqeologi mudam aris kvlevis procesSi, rom daexmaros adamianebs sakuTari warsulis ukeT gacnobaSi, radgan, rogorc ilia WavWavaZem Tqva, `awmyos, romelsac warsuli ar aqvs, arc momavali aqvs~.
– yoveldRiuri rutinidan Tavis gatyuebis ra saSualebas iyenebT?
– amaSi Zalian mexmareba Tevzaoba, oRond sakmaod saintereso, iaponuri stiliT Tevzaoba, sadac Tevzs iWer xelovnuri satyuarebiT – Sens ostatobazea damokidebuli, Tevzs daiWer Tu vera. yvelaze mniSvnelovani is aris, rom Tevzs, romelic iSviTia an pataraa, uSveb ukan, zRvaSi. garda aRniSnulisa, Cems moswavleebTan erTad xSirad vTamaSob fexburTs, rac Cveni urTierTobis gamyarebaSi da jansaRi cxovrebis wesis damkvidrebaSi gvexmareba. . .
– mogviyeviT musikaze, romelsac, rogorc viciT, qmnidiT da im droisTvis popularobiTac sargeblobda sazogadoebaSi. . .
– daaxloebiT 14-15 wlidan, Tineijerobis asakidan, sakmaod gamitaca musikam. iyo raRacebi, rac momwonda da rac ar momwonda. vTvlidi, rom mqonda SesaZlebloba, raRac Semecvala qarTul musikaSi, Semeqmna raime Rirebuli, romelic gamoasworebda im xarvezebs, iqamde rom arsebobda da ar momwonda. sakmaod aqtiurad vusmendi jazs, hip-hops, bluzs, souls, fanks da ase Semdeg. gadavwyvite, rom SemeZlo musikis Seqmna. zogadad, cxovrebaSi Zalian mizandasaxuli var da amasTan erTad principuli. raRacas rom daviwyeb, sanam ar davamTavreb, ar SeveSvebi. musikas ukve aqtiurad vusmendi da vwerdi meTerTmete, meTormete klasSi. Semdeg Cems cxovrebaSi Zalian mniSvnelovani roli iTamaSa TbilisSi cxovrebam, sadac gavicani unikaluri adamianebi. iseT xalxTan mqonda urTierToba, romlebsac vusmendi iqamde da ver warmomedgina, sadme Tu vnaxavdi, miT ufro Tu davumegobrdebodi da erTad davukravdiT. me da Cemma megobarma muSvanma erTad daviwyeT musikis keTeba. Cveni mizani da prioriteti iyo qarTuli jazis popularizacia. aqtiurad vusmendi giuli Coxels. biTmeikeri viyavi, Cveni idea iyo qarTuli hip-hop biTebiT adamiani migveyvana qarTul jazamde. vfiqrobdiT, ar unda miscemodnen daviwyebas legendaruli Semsruleblebi, romlebic saqarTvelos hyavda. sakmaod popularulebi viyaviT 2016 wlidan 2019 wlis CaTvliT. dRes CemTvis prioriteti gaxda ojaxi da sadoqtoros dacva, Cemi samsaxurebi, Tumca ar vici, ra iqneba, magaliTad, xuT weliwadSi. musika yovelTvis mihyveba Cems cxovrebas mniSvnelovan fonad.
– ojaxi, siyvarulis Zala. . .
– Cemi meuRle biblioTekaSi gavicani, TbilisSi, rodesac samagistro naSromze vmuSaobdi da aRmoCnda, rom isic imave mizniT iyo iq. orwliani urTierTobis Semdeg imdenad erT azrze viyaviT TiTqmis yvelaferTan mimarTebaSi, gadavwyviteT ojaxi Segveqmna da ori wlis win asec moviqeciT. aqve vityvi, rom introverti var da martoc ar miWirda cxovreba, Tumca axla sxva pasuxismgebloba gaCnda CemSi, sxvanair mxardaWeras vgrZnob, yvelafers SeTanxmebulad vakeTebT da es Zalian mogvwons. mimaCnia, rom siyvaruli aris grZnobebis da erTmaneTis mimarT damokidebulebebis sinTezi. CemTvis siyvaruli aris ndoba, kidev ufro meti motivacia, romelsac adamiani maZlevs. Bbednierebaa, roca ori adamiani zrunavs erTmaneTze da egulebaT erTmaneTi.
– erTi dRiT gidi rom iyoT, romeli adgilis mosanaxuleblad waiyvandiT stumrebs aWaraSi?
– am kiTxvaze daufiqreblad gipasuxebT, radgan araerTi stumari wamiyvania, aRfrTovaneba gamouxatavT da uTqvamT, rom msoflioSi bevr adgilas yofilan, magram aseTi STambeWdavi garemo cota unaxavT – esaa maWaxelas mimarTulebiT, gvaras cixe, romelic mdinareebis Woroxisa da maWaxelas SesarTavs pirdapir zemodan dascqeris. ulamazesi cixesimagrea, romelSic ganTavsebulia 35 qvevri. Zalian lamazi xedebi iSleba, gadahyurebs or mdinares. iqve patara kibeebiT Cadixar mdinare maWaxlis piras, sadac SegiZlia icurao, cecxli daanTo da pikniki moawyo. am yvelafers emateba isic, rom zemoT nakrZalia da SeiZleba, nebismier dros, romelime cxovelma Cainavardos Sen gverdiT. 30-35 wuTis gzaa baTumidan, yvelas vurCev, rom estumron gvaras cixesimagres da miiRon dauviwyari STabeWdilebebi.
– qveyana an qalaqi, romelmac gansakuTrebuli STabeWdileba moaxdina Tqvenze?
– daaxloebiT 8 qveyanaSi var namyofi, magram Cems molodinebs gadaaWarba arabeTSi mogzaurobam, kerZod ki yatarSi. meuRles, samsaxuridan gamomdinare, raRac periodi mouxda iq yofna, mec SeRavaTebi miviRe rogorc frenaze, ise sacxovrebelze da avixdine bavSvobis ocneba udabnos naxvisa da arabuli Cacmulobis morgebisa. zogisTvis eifelis koSkis naxvaa mniSvnelovani, zogisTvis – udabnos. magaliTad, Cems xasiaTs, Sexedulebebs kargad movarge arabuli cxovreba. pirvel rigSi, TvalSi sacemia siwynare. aravin arsad garbis, aravis arsad eCqareba, aravin ar yris quCaSi nagavs. arsad aris aqcia, aravin aravis misdevs da ase Semdeg. kidev iman gamoiwvia Cemi gaoceba, rom saerTod ar arsebobs kriminali. yvela avtomanqana Riaa, saxlis kari Riaa. magaliTad, mitanis servisiT rom `aifon 15 pro~ SeukveToT, kurieri mogitanT telefons da dadebs Tqveni karis zRurblTan, arcki SeiqmnaT iluzia, rom amas vinme aiRebs. sami dRec rom dagagviandeT aReba, nivTi adgilze dagxvdebaT.
– drois manqana rom gqondeT, romel droSi imogzaurebdiT da visTan geqnebodaT dialogi?
– miuxedavad imisa, rom romaelebTan bevri maqvs saerTo, bevri vici maTze, veTayvanebi am xalxs, Tuki drois manqanis saSualebiT SemeZleboda vinmesTan saubari, is aucileblad iqneboda napoleoni, radgan es adamiani iyo mravalmxriv ganviTarebuli, Zalian did pativs scemda arqeologebs, istorikosebsa da xelovnebaTmcodneebs. mis Sesaxeb bevri wigni wamikiTxavs, Zalian momwons misi damokidebulebebi, azrebi da bevrs viTvaliswineb kidec cxovrebaSi.
– ra aris Tqveni cxovrebis mTavari migneba?
– yvelaze mTavari aris is, rom sakmaod adreul asakSi mivageni sakuTar Tavs. mivxvdi, vin viyavi, ra iyo Cemi uaryofiTi da dadebiTi mxareebi. amitom mudam dadebiTi mxareebis moSvelebiT vaiZulebdi uaryofiT mxareebs gaCerebas, rom xeli ar SeeSalaT CemTvis warmatebis miRwevaSi. rodesac ici, vin xar da ra SegiZlia, ufro martivia yvelaferi. erT-erTi mTavari migneba CemTvis is aris, rom Tu ginda iyo warmatebuli, unda icxovro keTilsindisierad. skolaSic amas vaswavli bavSvebs, – adamians, romelic keTilsindisierad cxovrobs, etapobrivad, magram yvelaferi eqneba cxovrebaSi.
– dabolos, ras etyviT axalgazrdebs, ratom unda airCion profesiad arqeologia?
– rogorc aRvniSne, arqeologia sakmaod rTuli profesiaa da ar aris oqros Zieba. arqeologia unda airCion maSin, Tuki mudmivad uCndebaT kiTxvebi da uyvarT pasuxebis Zieba, Tuki arian cnobismoyvareebi, Tuki uyvarT istoria. vfiqrob, arqeologia idealuri profesiaa aseTi tipis adamianebisTvis, magram kidev erTxel vimeoreb, sakmaod rTuli da sapasuxismgeblo saqmea.
