გზა სრულყოფისაკენ, ანუ მუდმივი ძიება. . .
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
mwerali qeTi gabinaSvili im warmatebul Semoqmedebs miekuTvneba, mxatvruli teqstis TviTmyofadobiTa da siRrmiT, movlenebis axleburi gaazrebiT farTo mkiTxvelis yuradRebas rom ipyroben. qalbaton qeTis mier bolo dros Seqmnili nawarmoebi `zRvari~ araerT saWirboroto kiTxvas aRZravs adamianis raobasa da daniSnulebaze, sazogadoebaze, romelSic vcxovrobT. Semdgari da bednieri rom iyo, anu TviTrealizaciisken, gza mudmivi Ziebaa – ase swams mwerals, romelic Tavis personaJebTan erTad, gankacebis, sulieri zeaRsvlis kibes Sesdgomia. . . es interviuc am aspeqtSi warmoaCens Cvens respondents.
– gazafxuli dadga. . . Tqveni bavSvobisa da axalgazrdobis gazafxulic gaixsneT. . .
– adamianis cxovrebaSi mxolod erTxel dgeba gazafxuli. foriaqi, ferebi da siTbo Semoaqvs, gagrZnobinebs, rom manamde warmodgenac ar gqonda, vin iyavi da ra SesaZlebloba gagaCnda, risken miiltvodi. . . TiTqos didi ZiliT geZina da gamogeRviZa. sicocxlis warmoudgeneli survili moaqvs. amodis mze da alRobs Sens sulSi yvela yinuls. mere, TiTqos Sen Tavad xar mze da sxvebis gaTbobas iwyeb. usasruloa es gazafxuli, sicocxlis bolomde migyveba, Cemi azriT, iqiTac, im sxva cxovrebaSic.
– Cveni gazeTis stumari erTi wlis win iyaviT. mas Semdeg mniSvnelovani ra moxda Tqvens cxovrebaSi?
– mogzaurobebis weli iyo, axali adgilebis, axali adamianebis, sakuTar TavSi axali unarebis aRmoCenis weli. bevri fiqris, bevri kiTxvis, energiis aRdgenisa da axali ideebis Tavmoyris periodi. Zalian aCqarda dro, sul sadRac gveCqareba, sul sadRac gvagviandeba. am mudmiv rbolaSi (umetes SemTxvevaSi, arsaiT) daniSnulebis adgili gvaviwydeba xSirad. xandaxan unda SeCerde, Seisveno da sakuTar Tavs mousmino. sakuTar TavTan dialogis periodi iyo gasuli weli.
– gilocavT axal wigns – `zRvari~, mis Sesaxeb ras gvetyviT?
– `zRvari~ mogviTxrobs, rogor ibrZvian da rogor uyvarT. . . esaa erekles ambavi, kacis, romelic Rvino ayenebs da totalitarul reJims upirispirdeba; es evis ambavia, uSeRavaTod Seyvarebuli qalis, romelsac mouwevs pasuxismgeblobebsTan marto gamklaveba; es damianes ambavic aris, movaleobebis marwuxebSi moqceuli kacis, romelic cxovrebam danebebul jariskacs daamsgavsa, iaraRdayril, brZolis unardakarguls. . . ar vici, me davwere es wigni Tu Tavad damwera. ucnaurad iwereboda, yovelgvari Zaldatanebis gareSe. zogjer me Semqonda personaJebis cxovrebaSi Sesworebebi, magram xSirad Tavad mcvlidnen. wignis redaqtori batoni andro bedukaZe iyo da Zalian saintereso aRmoCnda muSaobis procesi. bevri ram viswavle. dRes, roca am wigns vubrundebi da kritikuli TvaliT vkiTxulob, xarvezebs vpoulob. axla vici, ra gamomrCa, sad gadavamete, ra SemeSala. am wignze muSaobam gamzarda da Tu iqneba Semdegi wigni, ufro met Zalisxmevas Cavdeb masSi. mogexsenebaT, wignebs sakuTari cxovreba aqvT da avtorebis sakuTreba aRar arian mas Semdeg, rac mkiTxvelamde mivlen. ver vityvi, rom `zRvaris~ erTgvarovani emocia mohyva. yvela dadebiT da uaryofiT Sefasebas vecnobi da vcdilob, sakuTari winsvlisTvis gamoviyeno. wigni xelmisawvdomi iyo rogorc saqarTveloSi, aseve mis farglebs gareT mcxovrebi qarTvelebisTvis. amJamad, rogorc CemTvis cnobilia, nabeWdi saxiT aRar aris SemorCenili. mkiTxvels misi gacnoba SeuZlia sabas eleqtronuli wignebis biblioTekaSi. sul axlaxan ki saqarTvelos usinaTloTa kavSirma gaaxmovana da `zRvaris~ audio versia uaxloes periodSi iqneba xelmisawvdomi.
– Tqveni wigni iTargmna ukrainul enaze, rogor Sexvda mas mkiTxveli?
– ukraina-ruseTis omi Zalian mZafrad ganvicadeT saqarTveloSi. es arcaa gasakviri, Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, rom Cvens udides mters ebrZvian da maTi yoveli gaTenebuli dila gviCens imeds, rom Cvenc gavimarjvebT da movarRvevT mavTulxlarTebs. am tragedias omis dawyebidan Zalian male gamoexmaura bevri xelovani. qalbatoni guliko zumbaZis iniciativiT, gamocxadda konkursi da SerCeuli nawarmoebebi ukrainis omis Temaze Sesrulebul naxatebTan erTad, krebulad Seikra. mogvianebiT, aRniSnuli krebulidan garkveuli nawili ukrainul enaze iTargmna. mec movxvdi am wignSi da mqonda pativi, batoni raul CilaCava yofiliyo Cemi mTargmneli. wignma didi gamoxmaureba hpova rogorc saqarTveloSi, aseve, ukrainaSi. kargi iqneboda, am wignis daweris mizezi ar yofiliyo, magram radgan gviwevs iseT sastik samyaroSi cxovreba, sadac bavSvebis sicocxlis xarjze cdiloben Zalauflebis mopovebas, vfiqrob, es wigni warmoadgens gzavnils saqarTvelodan, Tanadgomas am uTanasworo brZolaSi, ruseTis borotebis imperiisgan gamijvnas. . . Tumca aqve minda aRvniSno, Cemi nawarmoebi „ra advilia gmiroba omSi“ ukrainel xalxs ar eZRvneba, es samSoblosTvis maTi Tavganwiruli brZolis fonze, Cveni ususurobis tkivilia, ambavia imis, rom xSirad omSi dabadeba gacilebiT ukeTesia, vidre iyo arwivis marTve, klanWebisa da frTebis gareSe. . .
– amaswinaT, mniSvnelovan proeqtSi miiReT monawileoba, romelmac axalgazrdebs misca saSualeba, afxazeTisadmi sakuTari siyvaruli da tkivili gamoexata da wignad eqcia. . .
– mcxeTis municipalitetis meriisa da kerZod, nino maniaSvilis iniciativiT, gamocxadda konkursi `gamarjoba, afxazeTo, Seni!~ mis farglebSi axalgazrdebs TemasTan dakavSirebiT Seqmnili eseebi da naxatebi unda warmoedginaT, mogvianebiT ki namuSevrebi wignad gamoica. me am konkursis Jiuris erT-erTi wevri gaxldiT. proeqtis Sefasebisas ukve aRvniSne da aqac gavimeoreb, rom adamianebis udidesi nawili, romelic afxaz xalxTan megobrobda da afxazeTs icnobda, ruseTTan uTanasworo brZolas Seewira. Cven varT Taoba, romelmac bavSvoba gamotova, radgan gviwevda adaptireba im urTules socialur da politikur garemosTan, romelic oms axlavs Tan. Cveni cxovrebis dawyebidan afxazeTi sisxlTan, sikvdilTan, sakuTar qveyanaSi devnilad qceul mosaxleobasTan asocirdeboda. . . emigraciam, Secvlilma saganmanaTleblo sistemam, damarcxebuli omis gamo quCaSi gamosulma da narkotiksa da sasmelSi Svebis maZiebelma mamebma, axalma konfliqtma samaCabloSi da qveynis gulamde mosulma mtris jarma xeli SeuSala bavSvebs, afxazeTis Sesaxeb meti scodnodaT, rac afxazeTis aneqsiis winapirobaa. imedi, saqarTvelos teritoriuli mTlianobis aRdgenisa, momavali Taobaa. am fonze, marTlac saxelmwifoebrivi mniSvneloba aqvs msgavs proeqtebs.
– erTgan gulistkiviliT ambobT: ,,rodesac Seni saxeli da gvari cdeba sakuTari ojaxis sazRvrebs, mzad unda iyo, rom viRacas moewonebi, viRacisTvis – miuRebeli iqnebi. Tqveni azriT, adamianebi ratom tkenen guls erTmaneTs?
– iyo sajaro piri, adamianis arCevania. Seni saqmianobiT sazogadoebis farTo interesis obieqti roca xdebi, unda gqondes gacnobierebuli, rom Tmenis valdebuleba gaqvs. unda icode, rom `aravin ars saxier, Tvinier RvTisa~ da adamians srulyofilebamde Zalian grZeli gza aqvs gasavleli. amitom ar unda elodo mudmivad qebas. unda SegeZlos kritikis miReba, maT Soris, daumsaxurebeli kritikis mosmenisTvisac unda iyo mzad. es sityvebi im adamianebs exeboda, visac gansxvavebuli azris mosmenis seriozuli problema aqvT. sastikia samyaro xSirad da bolo periodSi adamianebs negativis gavrcekebis Zalian bevri saSualeba miecaT. daTrgunulia adamiani, realizebas ver axerxebs, harmonias ver poulobs da am brazs, am tkivils, sxvebis mimarTulebiT avrcelebs. Sesacodia adamiani, romelic sxvebis gulistkeniT sazrdoobs. masTan brZola azrsmoklebulia. bednieri da Seyvarebuli adamianebis gulSi araa mtrobis adgili.
– gzagasayarze bevri adamiani gvxvdeba, zogi naTel kvals aRbeWdavs, zogi – piriqiT, am dros sulieri wonasworobis SenarCunebisTvis ra aris arsebiTi, anu rogor unda gavZlierdeT pirovnulad?
– rac dro gadis, sul ufro iSviaTad makvirvebs rame, sul ufro naklebad mtkiva adamianebisgan, radgan TiTqos maTgan amas movelodi. menatreba is dro, roca ukeTesi warmodgena mqonda adamianebsa da adamianobaze. . . magram adamiani martivi arseba araa, Cven vxedavT ras akeTebs, magram warmodgena ar gvaqvs, ram miiyvana aqamde, ram aqcia aseTad, ra tkivili daaqvs, ra imedgacrueba. Cemi wonasworobis SenarCunebis erTaderTi gza imaze fiqria, rom „bolos yoveli dafaruli saqme cxadad gamocxaddes“- ar arsebobs WeSmariteba, romelic ar gacxaddeba, yvela simarTles aexdeba farda, yvela mivxvdebiT sakuTar Secdomas, ubralod, unda vipovoT Zala lodinis.
– rogor reagirebT kritikaze, saerTod, ras fiqrobT literaturul kritikaze?
– samwuxarod, literaturuli kritikis seriozul deficits ganvicdiT da es aisaxeba kidevac Tanamedrove qarTul literaturaze. SemoqmedisTvis sasicocxlod mniSvnelovania jansaRi kritika, sxvagvarad ver ganviTardebi, ver gaizrdebi. socialurma qselebma yvelas mogvca saSualeba, rom sakuTari azri migvetana farTo auditoriamde. adamianebis garkveuli jgufebis maamebluri Sefasebebi xSirad gajerebs, rom saukeTeso xar. es pirovnulad gazianebs. Sefasebisas ori ukiduresobaa, erTni gadideben, Zalian martivad iyeneben epiTetebs: brwyinvale, SesaniSnavi, geniosi. . . meoreni ki glanZRaven. arc pirvelni da arc meoreni argumentirebulad ar afaseben Semoqmedebas. profesionaluri kritika saWiroa. Tu Senze saubroben, ukve kargia, radgan gamCneven. yovelTvis vismen Sefasebas, TiTqmis yvela komentars vkiTxulob, vfiqrob da Tu Semfaseblis argumenti CemTvis damajerebelia, vcdilob, gaviTvaliswino.
– SegiZliaT Tu ara sakuTari Tavis daxasiaTeba da roca marto rCebiT, rogori xarT?
– xumrobiT rom giTxraT, marto arasdros vrCebi, ar mtoveben, Cems tvinSi cxovroben da xmauroben. romlis xmac ufro Zlieria, mis Sesaxeb vwer. albaT im momentSi iseTi var mec, Cemi personaJebis msgavsi. ise ki, es yvelaze rTuli kiTxvaa, yvelaze Znelad Tavmosayrelia sityvebi. xSirad vusvam am kiTxvas sakuTar Tavs da jer pasuxi bolomde ar mipovia. iqneb, sulac esaa cxovreba, sakuTari Tavis mudmivi Ziebis urTulesi gza.
– Tqven da ojaxi. ojaxi sulis savaned rom iqces, viszea damokidebuli?
– Cemma didma papam „vefxistyaosani“ zepirad icoda, Cems did bebias 10 Svili gardaecvala da Zilis win mainc loculobda: „RmerTo acxone qveyana da am qveyanaSi Cemi ojaxic garie~,- aseT ojaxSi gavizarde, aseT Rirebulebebze. ar maviwydeba es, mudmivad vfiqrob. ojaxi yvelaze mniSvnelovania adamianis cxovrebaSi. Cven yovelTvis erTad moviazrebdiT Tavs, erT did ojaxad da sadac unda viyoT, erTmaneTis arsebobas ar viviwyebT, vgrZnobT pasuxismgeblobasac da Zalasac. yvelaferSi uzomoni, ukiduresobebis adamianebi varT, magram yvelaze mTavari gvaqvs, Tan, Zalian didi doziT – erTmaneTis upirobo siyvaruli. ojaxi – esaa adgili, sadac uyvarxar iseTi, rogoric xar, Seni nakliTa da RirsebebiT, adgili, sadac nebismier dros SegiZlia dabruneba. TavSesafaria ojaxi. harmonias ojaxSi erTi adamiani ver Seqmnis, es udidesi Sromaa, erToblivi Zalisxmeva, erTi mimarTulebiT moZraobis survili.
– semiologTa azriT, samyaroSi yvelaferi niSania. risi niSania adamiani?
– samyaroSi uamravi niSania. vfiqrob, Zvelma adamianebma am niSnebis kiTxva icodnen. Tanamedrove adamianis gulis Tvali dabindulia. Cven veRar vxedavT imas, rac zedapirze ar gvidevs, amitom Tu davdivarT ase gzaareulebi. adamiani RmerTis arsebobis niSania. adamiani Tavad aris matarebeli RmerTis da aqvs udidesi potenciali. Uubralod, Cven es dagvaviwyda.
– yvelaze saukeTeso Tvisebad ras TvliT?
– gulwrfelobas, sakuTar Tavad yofnis Zalas. Zalian yalbi gaxda samyaro, yalbebi gavxdiT Cven. Cveni cxovreba, romlis afiSirebasac vcdilobT, ar asaxavs realur yofas, Cveni sityva aRar modis gulidan, xelovnebac ki aRar aris sarke, romelSic sakuTari naklisa da Rirsebis danaxva unda SeZlos sazogadoebam. . . albaT Cven vqmniT aseT garemos, Cven vaiZulebT erTmaneTs tyuilis Tqmas, radgan aRar gvaqvs simarTlis miRebis mzaoba. niRbebis epoqaa. am niRbebis cvlaSi, sakuTari Tavebi davkargeT TiTqos.
– wuTisoflis arsze ras fiqrobT?
– dedamiwa CemTvis erTgvari xidia, romelic adamiansa da RmerTs akavSirebs. ieso qristes ormoci dRe udabnoSi siaruli dasWirda, raTa eSmaki daemarcxebina. xandaxan vfiqrob, rom wuTisofeli adamianisTvis udabnoa, Tavisi gvalviT, Tavisi gamomSrali piriTa da oazisebiT, esaa adgili, sadac sakuTari Tavi jer unda dakargo da Semdeg Tavidan aRmoaCino. am udabnoSi Sen unda ajobo Sensave Tavs da gaimarjvo.
– ra matebs adamians sulier Zalas da Tqven piradad?
– siyvaruli! adamianis mTavari mamoZravebeli siyvarulia. roca giyvars, warmoudgenel Zalas flob, gjera, rom SeuZlebeli araferia, zustad ici, yvela aRmarTs aivli, romelsac Seudgebi, yvela zRvas gadalaxav. siyvaruls sinaTle Semoaqvs adamianSi, am sinaTles mxolod sakuTar TavSi ver itevs, ver malavs da sxvebsac hfens naTels. da rac ufro Zlieri iqneba siyvaruli, rac ufro meti Seyvarebuli adamiani ivlis qveynad, miT naklebi adgili darCeba sibneles.
– tradicia da novatoroba – Tqven saiTken ixrebiT?
– adamianis movaleobaa fiqri, gansjis unari da sakuTari arCevanis gakeTeba cxovrebaSi, Tavisi nebis gamoxatva. pativs unda scemde imas, rac Senamde moitanes. amaze xar adamiani aRmocenebuli, Seni fesvebia da mis gareSe arsebobas ver SeZleb. amavdroulad, adamianis pirdapiri movaleobaa mudmivi Zieba, axali gzebis mikvleva, axali mimarTulebebis aRmoCena. sxvagvarad winsvlas ver SevZlebT.
– axla baTums da baTumelebs gadmogvxedeT, Tqveni siyvarulis romel ganedze gvigulebT?
– xom aris lurji zRvebi, kamkama, oqrosferi sanapiroebiT. . . magram roca im zRvaSi Sevdivar, Tavs ucxod vgrZnob, vxvdebi, is zRva calkea da me calke. Cven erTmaneTis saerTod ar gvesmis. me Cemi Savi zRva mirCevnia yvelafers. Sav zRvaSi curvisas mis nawilad vgrZnob Tavs, mis talRebSi Tavisuflebas ganvicdi. roca cudad var, Tvalebs vxuWav da baTumze vfiqrob, wvimian baTumsa da aRelvebul zRvaze. Cemi nirvanaa baTumi. vfiqrob, odesme momecema saSualeba da sacxovreblad am qalaqSi gadmoval. miyvars aWara Tavisi mTebiT, Tavisi zRviT, Tavisi adamianebiT. . .
