“რუსეთის დასამარცხებლად საჭიროა უპირობო კონსოლიდაცია”
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msoflios globaluri problemebi aforiaqebs maT Sorisaa ruseT-ukrainis omi, romelic mesame welia mimdinareobs da garkveuli daskvnebis gakeTeba SeiZleba. ukrainam SeZlo, gamklaveboda ruseTis armias da mniSvnelovani zianic mieyenebina kremlma verc kievis, verc xarkovis da odesis aReba SeZlo, raSic udidesi wvlili dasavleTs miuZRvis. maTi mkafio mxardaWera rom ara, ukrainas gauZneldeboda mtris SeCereba, Tumca isic aRsaniSnavia, rom axla omis gadamwyveti fazaa. udavoa, ruseTis gamarjveba an marcxi ukrainaSi uamravi qveynis beds gadawyvets. . . am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba bsu-is iuridiul da socialur mecnierebaTa fakultetis dekani, saerTaSoriso samarTlis specialisti levan jayeli.
– moskovSi ganxorcielebuli teroristuli aqtis gamo rusuli mxare ukrainas adanaSaulebs, amiT ris miRwevas cdilobs kremli?
– sakiTxi erTi SexedviT martivia, Tumca arsebiTad Tu SevxedavT, ar aris martivi. es ruseTis realobidan gamomdinare, tipuri procesia. Cven araerTi faqtis momswreni varT, roca moskovi miznis misaRwevad militaristul gzebs mimarTavs. ruseTis mTavroba, specsamsaxurebi iyeneben aseT binZur meTodebs. faqti erTia, rom mTlad ver alageben am SemTxvevas iseT CarCoSi, rogoric surT. pirdapir, mkafiod ukrainasTan kavSiri ar Cans, mcdelobebi aris. . . kiTxva Zalian bevria. vfiqrob, radgan pirvelwyaroze wvdoma ar gvaqvs, Sefaseba rTulia.
– ukve mesame welia, ukrainaSi omi mimdinareobs, axla ra fazaa?
– amJamad, Sua fazidan daskvniT fazaSi gadasvlis momentia. mxareebma, faqtobrivad, arsenalis ori mesamedi gamoiyenes. aris mosazreba, rom ruseTs jer kidev bevri iaraRi aqvs, magram Tu asea, ratom ver vxedavT amas brZolis velze? anu iseT gardatexas, romelic aSkarad mianiSnebda mis upirobo gamarjvebaze, an ratom saubrobs ukraina gamarjvebaze Tu aseTi upiratesoba aqvs ruseTs? aq meore mxarecaa – Sefaseba ar SeiZleba calmxrivad gakeTdes.
– cnobilia, omis pirvel etapze ra mizans isaxavda ruseTi ukrainaSi, amJamad misi minimumi da maqsimumi ra aris?
– rogorc arasdros, ruseTi dRes iseTi araTanmimdevrulia Tavis politikaSi, samxedro operaciaSi. viciT, adre ra uwoda am oms kremlma – specialuri samxedro operacia, axla ki arcerTi pasuxismgebliani piri ruseTSi omis terminis gamoyenebas aRar erideba, Tumca dRes ufro ar aris omi, vidre dasawyisSi. srulmasStabiani omi maSin iyo, roca rusuli tankebi, specteqnika, cocxali Zala kievisken garRvevas cdilobda da wiTeli droSis aRmarTvas lamobdnen amisTvis inventari Catanili hqondaT. maSin ukrainam pirwmindad gaanadgura mtris jari. axla ruseTi ibrZvis doneckis da luganskis regionebisTvis. msofliosTvis cnobilia, ra iyo ruseTis mizani da ras dasjerda sabolood. ruseTs ar gaaCnia resursi mTeli ukrainis dasapyrobad.
– ruseTis armiam amas winaT dnepropetrovskis eleqtrosadguri dabomba, ras fiqrobT?
– erTaderTi mizani aqvs ruseTs (rogorc ukrainas) – mowinaaRmdegis resursebis gabneva, radgan ukrainam axla rom SeZlos garkveuli Zalebis ise koncentrireba, rom sadme sazRvari gaarRvios, ruseTs ukrainis dardi aRar eqneba, amitomac cdilobs, ukrainis armia maqsimalurad gaabnios brZolis xazze da ar misces gaerTianebis saSualeba. samwuxarod, ukrainas aqvs cocxali Zalis, teqnikis, Wurvebis problema. dasavleTi sabrZolo masalebis gadacemaze Tavs imitom ikavebs, rom ar surs ruseTis miyvana ukiduresobamde, raTa am ukanasknelma ar gamoiyenos birTvuli iaraRi. taqtikuri birTvuli iaraRis gamoyenebac problemuri iqneba, radgan natos Semakavebeli faqtori veRar imuSavebs, vinaidan aliansi valdebuli iqneba, srulmasStabianad CaerTos am procesSi amas moiTxovs misi wesdeba.
– ruseTis politikuri elitis warmomadgenlebma amas winaT ganacxades, sanam ukrainis winaaRmdeg ruseTi atomur iaraRs ar gamoiyenebs, oms ver movigebTo. . .
– intervius dasawyisSi aRvniSne, rom ruseTi araprognozirebadi qveyanaa. vgulisxmob politikur elitas, romelsac romel momentSi ra prioritetebi aqvs, aravin icis. ukrainaSi omic xom ruseTma daiwyo ara imitom, rom safrTxe emuqreboda ukrainidan, dasavleTidan. . . mkiTxvels Sevaxseneb, sabWoeTis daSlis Semdeg ruseTis gaZlierebaze muSaobs amerikac, evropac da man vaWrobis iseT masStabebs miaRwia, iseTi Semosavlebi gaiCina, rom sabWoTa kavSiric ver daikvexnida ucxouri valutis iseTi dinebiT, rogoric ruseTis biujetSi moedineboda. . .
– am ramdenime xnis winaT aSS-is prezidentma baidenma ganacxada, rom putini maniakia da ruseTs dauwesebs axal ekonomikur sanqciebs, ras fiqrobT?
– is, rom sanqciebi moqmedebs, faqtia da amaze ar unda vidavoT. es msjelobis sagani ar aris. samsjeloa – ramdenad kmayofilia is saxelmwifoebi da sazogadoeba, romlebic imedebs sanqciebze amyarebdnen myisieri Sedegis misaRwevad. am sanqciebs aqvs Sesabamisi saTadarigo rezervebi, gaTvlebi, biujeti, Semosavlis wyaroebi, romelic avsebs im danakliss, rac sanqciebis gamo Aadgeba ruseTs. am pirobebSi ver vityviT, rom Tu dRes davuwesebT sanqciebs ruseTs, ukve xval mas daCoqils davinaxavT, magram, cxadia, ruseTi veRar aris iseTi, rogoric am omamde. es faqtia.
– Tavis mxriv ruseTis prezidentma putinma amerikel JurnalistTan interviuSi ganacxada: saerTaSoriso samarTali ar arsebobs, aris Zalis kanoni, es risi maniSnebelia?
– es arafris maniSnebelia, es araakademiuri gancxadebaa da minda mkiTxvels vuTxra, rom aseTi zedapiruli, marketinguli gancxadebebi uSinaarsoa, radgan sanam adamiani arsebobs sociumSi, manamde iarsebebs samarTali. rogori samarTali iqneba es, sxva sakiTxia. saerTaSoriso samarTalTan dakavSirebiT vityvi, rom ubralod, misi efeqtianobis xarisxi Semcirda. ruseTis politikuri elitis moqmedebebs Tu davakvirdebiT, TiTqos mTeli maTi gadawyvetilebebi efuZneba saerTaSoriso samarTlis normebs (realurad, arRvevs am normebs). kremls eSinia iseTi fataluri Secdomis daSvebis, riTac dakargavs im mcireodeni saxelmwifoebis mxardaWeras, romlebic ganudgebian uxeSi darRvevis SemTxvevaSi. dRes ruseTs Seswevs Zala, samarTlebrivad dausabuTos calkeul mxardamWerebs, rom is moqmedebs arsebuli marTlwesrigis farglebSi.
– sxvaTa Soris, ruseTis opoziciis erT–erTma liderma gari kasparovma aRniSna, rom aSS da dasavleTi ver Camoyalibdnen ruseTis damarcxebis sakiTxSi da sanam dasavlur politikur elitaSi aseTi gaurkvevloba iqneba, putini oms ar Sewyvets. . .
– im saxiT, rogoric dRes aris dasavleTi, amerika, ruseTs ver daamarcxebs, upirobo damarcxebaze maqvs saubari, anu ruseTis kapitulaciaze. ruseTis dasamarcxeblad saWiroa upirobo konsolidacia. gvaqvs Cven dRes aseTi konsolidacia? ar gvaqvs! saerTod, lideri saxelmwifoebi sxvadasxva SesaZleblobaze laparakoben – zogi laparakobs iaraRisa da Wurvebis miwodebaze, zogic – adamianuri resursiT daxmarebaze da a. S. samwuxarod, aravin saubrobs erTian Zalaze, anu SesaZleblobebis gaerTianebasa da erTobliv daxmarebaze. cal-calke daxmarebiT am winaaRmdegobis daZleva SeuZlebeli iqneba.
– safrangeTis prezidentma makronma ar gamoricxa franguli armiis gamoCena ukrainaSi, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– es rusuli strategiaa, romelic am SemTxvevaSi frangebma gamoiyenes da sxva evropulma saxelmwifoebmac. magaliTad, poloneTma ar gamoricxa ukrainaSi samxedroebis gagzavna, magram es aris prevenciuli nabiji, romelic amowmebs ruseTs – ras ityvis? ra zomebs miiRebs? Tu safrangeTi da poloneTi marTlac gagzavnian SeiaraRebul Zalebs ukrainaSi, maSin ruseTi kvlav gaagrZelebs mobilizacias, radgan natos qveynebis SeiaraRebuli Zalebis dasaZlevad saWiroa eris gaerTianeba da saerTo Zalisxmeva.
– aris mosazreba, rom SesaZloa uaxloes momavalSi msoflios gavlenianma qveynebma rusul–ukrainuli mxareebi molaparakebebis magidasTan dasvan da ukrainas kompromisi aiZulon, ras fiqrobT?
– es ukve realuri gaxda, radgan Tu dasavleTi da aSS ganacxadeben, rom SeiaraRebiT sakmarisad ver moamarageben ukrainas, maSin am qveynisTvis egzistencialuri dilema dgeba – Seakvdnen ruseTs Tu gadarCnen (im teritoriebiT, romlebsac akontroleben dRes), amitom sulac ar gamikvirdeba, rom erT mSvenier dRes dasavleTis pasiurobiT daiyolion ukraina kompromisze.
– „droa dnestrispireTi movaTvinieroT“ – ganacxada amerikelma polkovnikma aleqs qrouTerma, ramdenad realuria, kiSiniovma dnestrispireTi daibrunos?
– Tu ruseTi im donemde dasustdeba, rom iq ukve veRar gaakontrolebs situacias, anu ver gamokvebavs samxedroebs, ver aRWurvavs, maSin TviTon gamova am regionidan, Tumca ara mgonia, ase martivad iyos saqme.
– Tuki ruseTi damarcxda, saerTaSoriso dRis wesrigi rogor Camoyalibdeba?
– vfiqrob, dasavleTi Zalian liberaluri sivrcea. evropis mizania, ruseTi demokratiuli qveyana gaxdes, romelic pativs scems mezobeli saxelmwifoebis Tavisufal arCevans da amave dros, demokratiis sawyisebze, monawileoba miiRos msoflios axali wesrigis formirebaSi. cxadia, es SesaZlebeli iqneba, Tu qveynis saTaveSi demokratiuli Zalebi movlen.
– axla Cvens regionze visaubroT, somxeTi distancirdeba ruseTisgan. . .
– Zalian myifea iq mdgomareoba. somxeTi cdilobs, ar dauSvas eskalacia, konfliqtis ganaxleba azerbaijanTan, midis daTmobaze, anu zrunavs mSvidobis SenarCunebaze, cdilobs, ruseTTan ise isaubros, rom bolomde ar gaaRizianos, Tumca qmedebebidan Cans, rom radikaluri cvlilebebisTvis mzad aris da es mdgomareoba didi xania mwifdeba. is amisaTvis emzadeboda. somxeTi ukmayofiloa somxeTis moqalaqeebis mdgomareobiT ruseTSi, bolo wveTi iyo azerbaijanTan omis dros ruseTis neitraliteti, anu ganze dgoma. kremlma ar miiRo monawileoba azerbaijanis SekavebaSi da axla somxeTi arsebobis zRvarze dgas, radgan aqeT irania, iqiT – TurqeTi da azerbaijani. . . somxeTi eZebs mxardaWeras dasavleTSi, kerZod, amerikasa da safrangeTSi, sadac hyavs didi diaspora. savaraudod, am mxardaWeras isini miiReben da procesi molaparakebebis gziT gadawydeba, Tumca aris omis ganaxlebis albaTobac.
– donald trampma ganacxada, rom Tu prezidentad dabrundeba, ukrainaSi oms daasrulebs. . .
– amis gakeTeba Zalian martivad SeuZlia – ukrainas yvela sagareo daxmarebas Seuwyvets. . . misi amocanaa eleqtoratis gamravleba, raTa kvlav airCion meore vadiT. donald trampi profesionali politikosi ar aris, is biznesmenia, populizmis sindromiTaa Sepyrobili da mas amomrCevlis raodenobis gazrda ainteresebs saarCevnod.
– dabolos, ras uqadis es omi postsabWoTa qveynebs?
– wminda samarTlebrivad, axali msoflio wesrigis zRvarze vdgavarT. msoflioSi unda gaCndes SeiaraRebuli Zalebis gamoyenebis axali meqanizmebi, institutebi. ase upirobod da samarTlebrivi normebis uxeSi darRveviT xalxis daxocva msofliom ar unda dauSvas, anu pasuxismgebloba unda dadges, am SemTxvevaSi – ruseTis. Cvens qveyanas rac Seexeba, gaaCnia politikur, ekonomikur, socialur, kulturul interesebs. am mxriv verc ukrainasTan da verc ruseTTan vTanamSromlobT, ver viRebT im sikeTeebs, rac samSvidobo pirobebSi SegviZlia miviRoT. cxadia, yvelasTvis misaRebia am omis dasruleba. visurvebdi, rom omi ukrainis gamarjvebiT dasruldes, raSic mniSvnelovani wvlili dasavleTma unda Seitanos.
