“ამ კანონპროექტში საფრთხეს ხედავენ მხოლოდ ის არასამთავრობოები, რომლებიც დღესაც არღვევენ კანონს”
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Kkanonproeqti `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb“ dRes saqarTveloSi erT-erT mTavar gansaxilvel Temad iqca. Mmosazrebebi masTan dakavSirebiT gansxvavebulia. erTni fiqroben, rom igi Tavisi SinaarsiT evropuli standartebisaa, xolo meoreni prorusul kanonproeqtad miiCneven. realurad rasTan gvaqvs saqme, ra niuansebi ikveTeba da ra SeiZleba mohyves kanonis miRebas, am sakiTxebze gavesaubreT arasamTavrobo organizacia `yofili politpatimrebi adamianis uflebebisTvis~ Tavmjdomares, uflebadamcvel nana kakabaZes.
– kanonproeqtze ,,ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb“ opozicias da mmarTvel gunds gansxvavebuli mosazrebebi aqvT, mTavroba fiqrobs, rom kanoni evropulia, opozicia ki rusuls uwodebs. Tqveni SexedulebiT, ram ganapiroba am kanonproeqtis ukve meored inicireba?
– msgavsi Sinaarsis kanoni, Tavdapirvelad, amerikaSi miiRes me-20 saukunis 30-ian wlebSi faSistebisa da komunistebisgan momdinare safrTxeebisgan dasacavad. es kanoni icavda amerikas mtrulad ganwyobilebisgan. is dResac efeqturad muSaobs da icavs yvela im pirisa Tu organizaciisgan, romelsac SeiZleba hqondes arakeTilganwyoba amerikisadmi, gamWvirvales xdis, erTi mxriv, maTgan Semosuli finansebis xarjvis nawils da meore mxriv, Sinaarss, Tu ra saqmianobaSi Caido es fuli.
– TvliT, rom es kanoni marTlac antievropulia?
– es kanoni antievropuli SeiZleba iyos erTaderT SemTxvevaSi, Tu evropa gadawyvets saqarTvelos mimarT mtrul saqmianobas. maSin es kanoni gamWvirvales gaxdis da gamoavlens qveynisTvis saziano ganzraxvas. yvela sxva SemTxvevaSi es kanoni aris uvnebeli nebismieri keTilmosurne qveynisaTvis, damfinanseblisaTvisac da Tanxis mimRebisTvisac. gamWvirvaloba ar SeiZleba iyos antievropuli da antidemokratiuli. keTili miznebis SemTxvevaSi, is iqneba saamayo orive mxarisTvis – gamcemisTvisac da mimRebisTvisac.
– Tqveni azriT, aris Tu ara gamWvirvale, am etapze, arasamTavrobo seqtoris Semosavlebi da maTi xarjvis miznobrioba? Tu asea, ras emsaxureba aRniSnuli kanoni?
– Znelad dasajerebelia, rom yvela arasamTavrobo organizaciis saqmianoba aris gamWvirvale, erTi imis gamo, rom maT kanoni amas ar avaldebulebs. maTi nebaa, ras gaxdian gamWvirvales TavianTi saqmianobidan. arian arasamTavroboebi, romlebic kanonis darRveviT CarTulebi arian politikaSi. aseT arasamTavroboebs ratom eqnebaT survili, sakuTari nebiT gaasajaroon arakanonieri saqmianoba da miznebi? aRniSnuli kanoni emsaxureba imas, rom organizaciebi gaxados angariSvaldebuli da survilis SemTxvevaSi, ver moaxerxon qveynisTvis saziano qmedebebis ganxorcieleba. mTavari aq aris ara miRebuli Tanxebis odenoba, aramed maTi gamoyenebis miznobrioba. magaliTad, `faras~ kanoni moiTxovs, ara marto lobirebisTvis miRebuli Tanxis odenoba da miznobrioba aCvenos, aramed ganxorcielebuli aqtivobebic. albaT gaxsovT, ra detalurad iyo CaSlili saaakaSvilis lobistebis angariSSi, Tu vis da ra mizniT unda Sexvedrodnen saakaSvilis miznebis lobirebisTvis, Sexvedrisas ra sakiTxs ganixilavdnen da, aseve, is, Tu ris meRweva surdaT Sexvedris obieqtisgan, amasTan, aRwerili iyo, ra Sedegebs miaRwia Sexvedram, ra odenobis Tanxa aiRes am aqtivobaSi da a. S.
– erT-erTma deputatma CvenTan saubarSi Tqva, rom msgavsi kanonproeqtis inicirebisas arasamTavroboebma piroba misces mmarTvel gunds, rom Semosavlebs ar damalavdnen, magram piroba ar Seasrules. ras ityviT amaze?
– eg mTlad swori ar aris. rogorc me vici, aseTi piroba dades grantebis gamcemebma da maT ar Seasrules. saerTod, sityvaze ndoba ar amarTlebs. es ase rom iyos da adamianebis mier mocemul sityvaze dajereba amarTlebdes, maSin kanonebi xom ar iqneboda saWiro?
– aris mosazreba, rom kanonproeqtiT unda kontroldebodes mtruli saxelmwifoebidan Semosuli dafinanseba da ara megobrulisgan. ramdenad SesaZlebelia da gamarTlebulia aseTi klasificireba Tqveni azriT?
– aseTi klasifikacia, erTi mxriv, sibriyvea da, meore mxriv, arasworia, vinaidan politikaSi ar arseboben mtrebi an megobrebi. politikaSi arsebobs interesebi. dRes Seni mteri xval SeiZleba mokavSirec gaxdes da piriqiT. ase moxda aSS-Sic. dRes aRar arseboben faSistebi da komunistebi, magram `faras~ kanoni warmatebiT muSaobs AamerikaSi. Tu eg Teoria sworia, maSin ratomRa muSaobs `faras~ kanoni dRes?
– aris Tu ara kanonproeqtSi orazrovani an bundovani adgilebi interpretaciisTvis?
– es kanonproeqti aris arasrulyofili da is ver daicavs qveyanas iseTi safrTxeebisgan, rogorisganac `fara~ icavs aSS-s. am proeqts sasurveli efeqti eqneba im SemTxvevaSi, Tu `faras~ Targmnian da miiReben iseTs, rogoric muSaobs amerikaSi. SeiZleba, `faras~ movxsnaT sisxlis samarTlebrivi pasuxismgeblibis sakiTxi, magram danarCeni igive unda darCes.
– ra Sesworebis Setana SeiZleba kanonproeqtSi, rom naklebi mizezi iyos mis rusulad misaCnevad?
– am kanons, kanonis armiRebis msurvelebma rusuli daarqves stigmatizebisTvis da ara kanonSi arsebuli SinaarsisTvis. kanoni rusulia, TavisTavad niSnavs sibriyves. nebismier kanons SegiZlia uwodo rusuli rogorc saqarTveloSi, ise mTels msoflioSi, dawyebuli sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsidan, damTavrebuli policiis Sesaxeb kanoniT. rac Seexeba Sesworebas, rogorc cnobilia, sityva `agentebi~ am kanonproeqtSi ukve Serbilda da Seicvala terminiT `ucxouri gavlena~, magram radgan grantis mimRebebi Tvlian, rom `ucxouri Zalebis interesebis gamtareblad~ maTi moxseniebiT moxdeba arasamTavrobo organizaciebis stigmatizacia, SesaZlebelia es terminic Seicvalos – magaliTad, `ucxoeTidan dafinansebuli organizaciebiT~.
– Tqveni azriT, ra safrTxes xedaven arasamTavroboebi am kanonproeqtSi?
– am kanonproeqtSi safrTxes xedaven mxolod iseTi arasamTavroboebi, romlebic dResac arRveven kanons. mag: kanonis moTxovnaa a/o iyos arapolitikuri. isini ki pirdapir arian CarTulni politikaSi, riTac winaaRmdegobaSi arian dRes arsebul kanonTanac, anu isini, vinc `faras~ kanonis Sinaarsidan gamomdinare, xedaven imas, rom mouwevT kanonis darRveva maTi saqmianobidan gamomdinare, da bunebrivia, ewinaaRmdegebian mis miRebas. isini xelovnurad apelireben ruseTze, sadac msgavsi kanoni arasamTavroboebis represirebisTvis gamoiyenes, magram saqarTvelosa da ruseTis Sida mdgomareoba politikuri, ekonomikuri, mentaluri Tu sxva kuTxiT radikalurad gansxvavdeba erTmaneTisgan, ris gamoc saqarTveloSi msgavsi safrTxe ar arsebobs.
– rogor fiqrobT, vinc aprotestebs da ambobs, rom rusul kanonTan gvaqvs saqme, yvelas wakiTxuli da gaazrebuli aqvs aRniSnuli kanonproeqti?
– es kanoni maT absolutur umravlesobas wakiTxuli ar aqvs, rac Cans maT interviuebSi, magram ician `faras~ Sinaarsi, iqidan gamomdinare, rom am kanonma amxila saakaSvili da kezeraSvili saqarTvelos interesebis sawinaaRmdego qmedebaSi. amaT swored aqedan gamomdinare ar surT kanoni.
– SezRudavs Tu ara kanonproeqtis romelime muxli azris Tavisuflad gamoxatvis uflebas?
– azris gamoxatvis uflebas dRes veranairi kanoni ver SezRudavs, maT Soris verc es, vinaidan azris Tavisufali gamoxatva daculia konstituciiT da im saerTaSoriso normebiT, romlebsac Cven varT mierTebuli.
– konkretulad, riT gansxvavdeba `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ kanoni evropuli an amerikuli analogisgan?
– rogorc ukve giTxariT, Cveni proeqti aris gamoSignuli `farasTan~ da Tundac evropulTan SedarebiT. aseve ar iTvaliswinebs sisxlis samarTlis pasuxismgeblobas da ar vrceldeba fizikur pirebze, rac ganasxvavebs mas amerikulisgan.
– aSS-is elC robin daniganis TqmiT, es ar aris amerikuli kanonproeqti da vaSingtoni miiCnevs, rom igi saqarTvelos evropuli gzidan gadaaxvevinebs. aseve, Cveni strategiuli partniorebic acxadeben, rom es procesi aferxebs qveynis evrointegracias. ras ityviT amis Sesaxeb?
– is, rom es kanonproeqti aRelvebs Cvens partnior qveynebs, cudad metyvelebs Tavad partniorebze da ara – kanonproeqtze.
– Tqveni azriT, ratom ar moswonT dasavlel partniorebs aRniSnuli kanonproeqti, an xom ar TvliT, rom dasavleTis yvela warmomadgeneli ase ar fiqrobs?
– es kanonproeqti SesaZlebelia ar moswonT partniori qveynebis iseT warmomadgenlebs, romlebsac ara partnioruli, aramed koloniuri da monuri damokidebuleba surT Cveni qveynisgan, survili aqvT, Caerion Cveni qveynis Sida politikaSi iseTi doziTa da formiT, romelic uzrunvelyofs qveynis mmarTvelobaSi maTTvis sasurveli, morCili xelisuflebis moyvanas.
– Tqveni mosazrebiT, am kanonproeqtis miRebis Semdeg ra reaqcia eqnebaT Cvens strategiul partniorebs (aSS, evrokavSiri)?
– maT mouwevT imis gacnobiereba da imasTan Segueba, rom saqarTvelo aris suverenuli qveyana da is TviTon wyvets, rogori kanonebiT surs icxovros. ra Tqma unda, kanonebi unda iyos srul SesabamisobaSi evropul standartebTan, rac am SemTxvevaSi srulad gaTvaliswinebulia.
– dabolos, Tu kanonproeqti miiRes, ra procesebi SeiZleba ganviTardes qveyanaSi?
– miRebamde mas aqvs da kidevac eqneba didi winaaRmdegoba. miRebis Semdeg destruqciuli muxti ganileva da arakeTilmosurneni daiwyeben axali xvrelebis Zebnas binZuri saqmeebis gasagrZeleblad.
