“ვინც ევროკავშირსა და ნატოში ინტეგრაციას ემხრობა, ყველასთან წარმოგვიდგენია თანამშრომლობა”
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
oqtombris saparlamento arCevnebis moaxloebasTan erTad politikuri muxti sul ufro matulobs, mmarTveli partia da opozicia samkvdro-sasicocxlod daupirispirdnen erTmaneTs aRmasrulebel da sakanonmdeblo xelisuflebaSi mosasvlelad, rasac erTvis urTierTSeuracxyofa, urTierTbraldebebi sxvadasxva sakiTxTan dakavSirebiT. samwuxarod, es qarTuli politikis Tanmdevi procesia, ramac saqarTvelo mravalmxriv daazarala rogorc ekonomikuri keTildReobis, ise saxelmwifoebrivi ganviTarebis TvalsazrisiT. kanonma `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ kidev ufro daapirispira mxareebi. ra procesebi mimdinareobs qveyanaSi, ra gamowvevebis winaSe arian mmarTveli partia da opozicia, ramdenad realuria mesame Zalis Seqmna da aris Tu ara oqtombris arCevnebi istoriuli mniSvnelobis? am sakiTxebze `lelo – saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erT liders, baTumis sakrebulos wevr vaJa darCias vesaubreT.
– saqarTveloSi dRes arsebul politikur viTarebaze ras ityviT?
– istoriul procesSi varT, romelic mniSvnelovania mravali faqtoridan gamomdinare. realurad, mmarTveli gundi sruliad Sordeba Cvens evropul ojaxs. gadawyvetilebis mimRebi pirebi (evrokavSirsa da natoSi) gveubnebian, rom rusuli kanoni Seanelebs am ojaxSi gawevrianebis process, Tumca parlamentma (`qarTuli ocnebis~ TaosnobiT) miiRo kanoni `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ da vetoc daZlia. es niSnavs, rom xelisufleba aris mkveTrad rusuli.
– mmarTveli gundis wevrebi acxadeben, rom kanoni evropulia, opoziciis SeniSvnebi ki usafuZvlo. . .
– erTi partniori, gadawyvetilebis mimRebi piri daasaxelon, romelic sajarod aris am kanonis momxre. Cven vasaxelebT oras saerTaSoriso aqtors, aRar vsaubrob saerTaSoriso daskvnebze. magaliTad, veneciis komisiam pirdapir mouwoda xelisuflebas, gaauqmos `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ kanoni. saerTaSoriso institutebs ar aRiareben da dugins da peskovs rac moswonT, im mocemulobas iReben. faqtia, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ mkveTrad CamoSorda qarTveli xalxis nebas da gadavida kremlis mxareze, rasac, sxvaTa Soris, saqarTvelos prezidenti salome zurabiSvilic araorazrovnad aRiarebs.
– saqarTvelos prezidentma parlamentis mxridan vetos daZlevis Semdeg ganacxada, rom mmarTveli partia antidasavluri Zalaa da amavdroulad, ar gamoricxa qveyanaSi referendumis Catareba. . .
– referendumis Tema formaluri nawilia, anu mis CatarebasTan dakavSirebiT legitimacia arsebobs. vgulisxmob imas, rom referendumis Catarebas premier-ministris Tanxmoba sWirdeba. esaa samarTlebrivi sakiTxebi… 2024 wlis arCevnebi namdvilad iqneba referendumi, am qveyanas realurad aRar aqvs iseTi arCevani, rom mosaxleobam partiuli dRis wesrigi airCios. Cvenma qveyanam 2024 wels unda airCios an evropa, an ruseTi. es referendumi ukve araformalurad arsebobs.
– evrokavSirma da aSS-ma uaryofiTad Seafases zemoaRniSnuli kanonis miReba. magaliTad, amerikis SeerTebulma Statebma gadawyvita, savizo SezRudvebi dauwesos mmarTveli partiis warmomadgenlebs. es ras moaswavebs?
– vetos daZleva iyo bolo miniSneba Cveni partniorebisTvis, rom sanqciebis paketi SemuSavdeba. aRiniSna, rom mmarTvelma gundma Ziri gamouTxara demokratiul standartebs da qveyana araswori mimarTulebiT mihyavs.
– amas winaT saqarTvelos prezidentma salome zurabiSvilma warmoadgina gegma, `qarTuli qartia~, romlis Sesrulebac, misi TqmiT, saqarTvelos demokratiisTvisaa aucilebeli da romelmac unda Seqmnas axali politikuri realoba. . .
– prezidenti bolo periodSi iseT nabijebs dgams, romelmac SeiZleba konsolidacias Seuwyos xeli opoziciur velze. Cvenganac raRac nabijebi unda gadaidgas, saubaria opoziciuri partiebis mxridan (arCevnebis Semdeg) salome zurabiSvilis saprezidento kandidatad wardginebaze, Cven am saxiT viRebT valdebulebas, rom konsolidacia am mimarTebiT daabrunebs saqarTvelos evropul gzaze. vinc amas xels moawers, pasuxismgeblobas iRebs, rom ar gadauxvevs evropul gzas, romelic prezidentma SemogvTavaza, rac ar ewinaaRmdegeba Cvens xedvebs. Cven pirvelebi viyaviT, vinc SeuerTda am qartias.
– rogorc viciT, partia `saqarTvelosTvis~ da iago xviCias `girCi~ ar SeurTdnen am qartias.
– diax, zemoaRniSnuli partiebi ar SeurTdnen prezidentis iniciativas. es ar gulisxmobs saarCevno erTobas da a. S. es aris ideebze, evrokavSirSi gawevrianebasa da im 9 punqtTan TanamSromlobaze erToba, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania saqarTvelos ganviTarebisTvis.
– Tavad saqarTvelos prezidentis rols rogor xedavT am procesSi?
– prezidents, rogorc vici, saarCevno ambiciebi am mxriv ar aqvs, Tumca Cven yvelas is gveguleba saarCevno kampaniis maraTonSi prodasavluri flangis erT-erT mTavar liderad.
– Tqveni azriT, rogori konfiguraciiT unda warsdges opozicia saarCevnod?
– opoziciuri partiebi saubroben sxvadasxva mimarTulebiT, maT Soris arCevnebSi monawileobasTan dakavSirebiT. dRes mTavari amocanaa, moxdes iseTi erToblivi ideebis SeTavazeba sazogadoebisTvis, romelic ar gamoiwvevs xmebis dakargvas, anu partiebma teqnikurad unda SeZlon iseTi siebis formireba, romelic apriorad gadalaxavs xuTprocentian bariers, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, partia, romelic ver gadalaxavs saarCevno bariers, `qarTuli ocnebis~ wisqvilze asxams wyals. amitom opoziciurma partiebma unda SeZlon iseTi erTobis SeTavazeba sazogadoebisTvis, rom saarCevno barieri gadalaxuli iyos, es aris erTgvari gamowveva opoziciuri partiebisTvis.
– Tqveni partia isev alaparakda mesame centris Seqmnis Sesaxeb. . .
– Cven warmogvidgenia, rom orpolusiani arCevnebis SeTavazeba Cveni mosaxleobisTvis aris damRupveli mravali faqtoridan gamomdinare: `nacmoZraoba~ uaryofiT reitingebSi aris yvelaze win myofi partia, amitom Cven vTavazobT mosaxleobas `qarTuli ocnebis~ da `nacionaluri moZraobis~ miRma Seiqmnas mesame centri, mesame polusi, sadac SevTanxmebiT im mniSvnelovan sakiTxebze, romelic dRes dgas dRis wesrigSi, es aris molaparakebebis dawyeba, maT Soris, Crdilovani kabinetis dasaxeleba da a. S. unda SevTanxmdeT sxvadasxva sakiTxze da am formiT warvsdgeT arCevnebze mosaxleobis, winaSe, Tumca aq aris teqnikuri sakiTxebi, blokebi akrZalulia am SemTxvevaSi da es sakiTxi mosagvarebelia.
– ramdeni centri Camoyalibda, aqeT – `nacmoZraoba~ da `strategia aRmaSeneblis~ saxiT, iqiT – `axali~ da `lelo~. visTan apirebT platformis Seqmnas?
– ar gamovricxavT raime platformaSi gaerTianebas, magram gvaqvs naTeli sazomi – Cven `nacmoZraobasTan~ erTad ar viqnebiT da amas Zalian martivad, sociologiurad, Sinaarsobrivad vxsniT. garda amisa, vinc CaTvlis saWirod, rom SeiZleba aq movides, mivesalmebiT, mzad varT, vesaubroT, gavcvaloT azrebi, amis mixedviT vimoqmedebT, TiTqmis yvela partiasTan viTanamSromlebT, Tumca wiTeli xazebi arsebobs: mmarTvel partiasTan, `nacmoZraobasTan~, gaxarias partiasTan erToba warmoudgenlad migvaCnia, sxva partiebisTvis es molaparakebebis kari Riaa. mokled, sadac iqneba ideologiuri siaxlove, ra Tqma unda, vecdebiT, rom es erToba Sedges.
– Tu Tqveni partia da `nacmoZraoba~ parlamentSi moxvdiT, maTTan iTanamSromlebT?
– koaliciuri mTavrobis Camoyalibebis pirobebSi Cven ar viTanamSromlebT mmarTvel ZalasTan, Sesabamisad, opoziciuri Zala, vinc Tvlis, rom am qveynis momavali unda iyos evrokavSirsa da natoSi, imaTTan yvelasTan vapirebT TanamSromlobas.
– arCevnebSi mniSvnelovania mosaxleobis aqtiuroba. rogor apirebT miumxrobeli amomrCevlis saarCevno urnasTan miyvanas?
– erT-erTi mniSvnelovani Temaa alternatiuli centris formireba. konsolidacia, sinergia unda hqondes am centrs. amomrCevelma unda dainaxos, rom ori polusis miRma (mmarTveli partia da `nacmoZraoba~) arsebobs mesame centri. Cven vTavazobT am formiT warvsdgeT mosaxleobis winaSe arCevnebze, am mimarTulebiT vimuSavebT, avuxsniT mosaxleobas, maT Soris, dReebis mixedviT, ras vTavazobT, aT, oras dReSi Cveni gundi parlamentSi ras apirebs da koaliciuri mTavrobis pirobebSi ris gakeTebas gegmavs, amis Taobaze vapirebT mosaxleobas vesaubroT. sxvaTa Soris, `lelo – saqarTvelosTvis~ individualurad sakmaod gaZlierda da amas yvela kvleva adasturebs, maT Soris `edisonis~ kvleviTac, Cven daaxloebiT 7 procenti gvaqvs da, yvela kvleviT, saarCevno bariers gadavlaxavT. mTavari amocanaa CvenTvis mosaxleobis aqtivoba arCevnebze, saarCevnod gazrdili amomrCevli niSnavs, rom mmarTveli partia arCevnebSi damarcxdeba.
– sxvaTa Soris, `gorbis~ sociologiuri kvlevis mixedviT, mmarTveli partia arCevnebSi 60 procents miiRebs. ras fiqrobT?
– `gorbi~ rom zRaprebs sTxzavs, araxali ambavia, es yovelmxriv dasturdeba. magaliTad, maTi prognoziT, salome zurabiSvils saprezidento arCevnebSi pirvel turSive unda moego, magram viciT, ra Sedegic dadga. analogiuri ganmeorda kaxi kalaZis SemTxvevaSic. yvela kvleva, romelsac `gorbi~ atarebs, aris acdenili realobas.
– 2024 wlis saparlamento arCevnebis mniSvnelovani komponentia proporciuli sistema. ra Sanss aZlevs es sistema opozicias parlamentSi mosaxvedrad?
– Zalian mniSvnelovania qveynisTvis proporciuli sistemiT arCevnebis Catareba. es opozicias sagrZnob kozirs aZlevs parlamentSi mosaxvedrad. gamarjvebis erT-erTi gasaRebi aris proporciul sistemaSi. mmarTveli partia Tu arCevnebSi 40 procentze qvemoT miiRebs da, aseve, ramdenime opoziciuri Zala gadalaxavs bariers (an erTobiT an cal-calke), es iqneba gamarjvebis gamoxatuleba. Cven unda vizrunoT imisTvis, rom rac SeiZleba metma opoziciurma partiam gadalaxos xuTprocentiani barieri, rac mTavaria, unda SevZloT emigrantebis am procesSi CarTva da es Zalian mniSvnelovania imitom, rom emigrantebi, realurad, xelisuflebaze arian ganawyenebuli. mmarTveli partia yvelafers akeTebs, rom es xalxi ar movides arCevnebze, unda SevZloT, rom Cvens partniorebTan es sakiTxi movagvaroT.
– ramdenad mosalodnelia, momavali parlamenti koaliciuri iyos?
– piradad me koaliciaSi warmomidgenia yvela, vinc fiqrobs, rom 2024 wlis bolos unda daiwyos molaparakebebi evrokavSirSi gawevrianebasTan dakavSirebiT, aseve, vinc Tvlis, rom am qveyanaSi sasamarTlo unda gaiwmindos monuri suliskveTebis xalxisgan. mokled, vinc evrokavSirsa da natoSi integracias emxroba, yvelasTan warmogvidginia TanamSromloba.
– politikosTa nawili Tvlis, rom ajobebs, momavali parlamenti erTwliani iyos. . .
– saqarTvelos prezidentis mier warmodgenil `qartiaSi~ es Sexeduleba iyo dafiqsirebuli. amas, cxadia, sWirdeba kargi gaanalizeba, radgan erTi wlis Semdeg qveyanaSi TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi gaimarTeba da ori arCevnebis erTdroulad Catareba teqnikurad ramdenad iqneba SesaZlebeli, es kidev sxva sakiTxia.
– dabolos, momavali arCevnebi geopolitikuri da istoriuli mniSvnelobis mxriv rogor suraTs qmnis?
– am mniSvnelobis arCevnebi Cvens qveyanaSi ar yofila, es amas winaT saqarTvelos prezidentis mier gacxadebulma referendummac cxadyo. es arCevnebi Tavisi SinaarsiT aris geopolitikuri da istoriuli mravali faqtoridan gamomdinare. maqvs gancda, rom Tu 2024 wels `qarTuli ocneba~ xelisuflebaSi darCeba, asmagad moimatebs represiebis talRa. amis winapiroba mmarTvelma gundma ukve moamzada, davemsgavseT, marTla, belaruss. amitom mniSvnelovania, mosaxleobam es yvelaferi gaiazros da mxari dauWiros im partiebs, romlebTanac sagareo kursze ar uCndebaT kiTxvebi, kerZod, momxreni arian, rom Sesruldes cxra punqti, romelic iqneba winapiroba, saqarTvelo gaxdes evrokavSiris da natos wevri.
