“სიტუაციას განმუხტავს თავისუფალი არჩევნები”
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
politika Cveni yoveldRiurobis Tanmdevi gaxda. qveyanaSi am mxriv mimdinare procesebi gansjasa da analizs moiTxovs, raTa ukeT ganvWvritoT momavali, Tavi davaRwioT sirTuleebs. araerT kiTxvaze, romelic Cvens dRevandelobas axlavs, amjerad saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis specialisti, saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv saqmeTa institutis (jipa) profesori giorgi koberiZe gvipasuxebs.
– saubari bolodroindeli movlenebis SefasebiT daviwyoT, ra procesebi mimdinareobs qveyanaSi?
– Tu SarSan qveyanaSi arsebuli politikuri procesebi met-naklebad stabiluri iyo (rodesac rusuli kanoni Caagdes), amjamad viTareba gamwvavebulia, politikuri polarizacia gadazrdilia politikur SuRlSi. xelisufleba zogierTs agents eZaxis, xolo mis sawinaaRmdegod gaCnda termini – moRalate da ruseTis mxardamWeri. es yovelive cxadyofs, rom politikuri polarizacia warmoudgenlad radikalizebulia da rTulia ganWvreta, ra mohyveba am yvelafers, Tumca savaraudoa, rom situacias ganmuxtavs Tavisufali arCevnebi, romelsac, ra Tqma unda, sasurvelia, hqondes realuri saxe da ara moCvenebiTi, rasac Cven xSir SemTxvevaSi vxedavdiT.
– rogorc cnobilia, parlamentma daZlia prezidentis veto da miiRo kanoni `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~, Tqveni azri am sakiTxze. . .
– rodesac iReb kanons, romelsac sazogadoebis didi nawilis mxardaWera ar aqvs da amasTanave, mokavSireebi geubnebian, es kanoni Zalian cudia, daazianebs Seni saxelmwifos interesebso, xolo Seni mtrebi ruseTidan garwmuneben, rom es kargi kanonia, unda dafiqrde politikosi, swor nabijebs dgam Tu ara qveynisTvis, Tuki, ra Tqma unda, saxelmwifo interesebi SenTvis mniSvnelovania. Cven vxedavT, rom qveyana, praqtikulad, bolo erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi (2023 wlis meore naxevridan am kanonis xelaxla inicirebamde) iyo pozitiur relesebze gadasuli: saqarTvelom kandidatis statusi miiRo, evropis Cempionatze movxvdiT, zogadad, politikuri procesebi mSvidi Canda. ai, es pozitiuri relsebi amoatriala xelisuflebis mier gadadgmulma nabijebma, ramac Zalian daazarala qveynis stabiluroba mxolod da mxolod mowinaaRmdegeebis sasargeblod. amiT gaxarebuli mxolod ruseTi SeiZleba iyos, romelsac awyobs qveynis SigniT arsebuli daZabuloba.
– qveynis xelisuflebis wevrebi acxadeben, rom es kanoni qveynis suverenitetis dasacavad miiRes. . .
– amaze Zalian mkafio pasuxi maqvs: kavkasiaSi Tuki darCebi marto, es niSnavs yofna-aryofnis, anu egzistencialuri safrTxis dadgomis realobas. . . martivad rom vTqvaT, kavkasiaSi saqarTvelos msgavsi saxelmwifoebi ar unda darCnen mokavSireebis anu ekonomikuri Tu samxedro daxmarebis gareSe. rusulma kanonma qveynis suvereniteti eWvqveS daayena ori mizeziT: am kanonis mxardamWeri Zala aris ruseTi, anu qveynis gareT myofi mtruli Zala, romelic ar aRiarebs saxelmwifoTa Soris Tanasworuflebian TanamSromlobas, mas miaCnia, rom ierarqia arsebobs saxelmwifoebs Soris. ruseTi sxva saxelmwifoebs rogorc vasalebs ise uyurebs; meore – saqarTvelo am kanonis miRebis fonze, praqtikulad, marto rCeba ruseTis pirispir. geopolitikuri aqsiomaa – Cvens regionSi rac ufro Sors xar evropisgan, miT ufro axlos xar ruseTTan. ase rom, am kanoniT saqarTvelos suvereniteti mxolod da mxolod ziandeba da ar myardeba. iyo aseTi mkvlevari – aleqsi amilaxvari, erekle mefis drois avtori, romelic ambobs, rom iseTi kanonis miReba, romelsac qveynis SigniT mxardaWera ar gaaCnia, praqtikulad, qveyanas Suaze xleCs, kanons sruliad ufunqcios xdis da saxelmwifoebrioba destruqciul sivrceSi Sehyavs. ai, am destruqciul sivrceSi SevediT swored imitom, rom gvaqvs kanonebi, romlebic ar emsaxureba saxelmwifo interesebs.
– vaSingtonma ramdenime aTeul adamians saqarTveloSi (maT Soris arian parlamentarebi) savizo sanqcia dauwesa. es risi maniSnebelia?
– vityodi, rom mosalodneli iyo. saqarTvelos xelisuflebam yvelaferi gaakeTa, rom mokavSireebisadmi negatiuri damokidebuleba gaCeniliyo. termini, rogoricaa globaluri omis partia, uwoda ara ruseTs, aramed dasavleTs da yvelafers akeTebs imisaTvis, rom sakuTar amomrCevelSi Cados zizRi dasavleTisadmi. es maSin, roca Tavad siamovnebiT dadian dasavleTSi – zogi Svilis gasaCenad, zogic dasasveneblad, zogi samkurnalod, anu dasavleTi maTTvis ki ar aris cudi maTi gadasaxedidan, aramed TiTqos cudia saqarTvelos mosaxleobisTvis.
dasavleTisTvis saqarTvelo aris qarTveli xalxi, saqarTvelos mosaxleoba. xelisufleba Tu ar asaxavs mosaxleobis umravlesobis nebas da iseT kanonebs iRebs, romelic qveyanas azaralebs, am SemTxvevaSi, kargavs legitimacias, legitimurobaze ar maqvs saubari. legalurobis TvalsazrisiT kanonis miReba SeiZleba swori iyos, magram legitimurad – sruliad araswori, legitimuroba yovelTvis aRmatebulia legalurobaze, anu legitimuroba ganapirobebs SemdgomSi raRacis legalurobas an aralegalurobas.
samwuxarod, saqarTvelos xelisufleba ara mxolod antiukrainul, antidasavlur, antiamerikul ganwyobebs Tesavs, aramed prorulsac ki. garda amisa, saqarTvelos xelisufleba cdilobs, gadadgas proCinuri nabijebi da kidev erTi agresiuli moTamaSe Semoiyvanos regionSi, romelic upirispirdeba dasavleTs. isic cnobilia, rom CineTi patara qveynebs piradi interesebisaTvis iyenebs, rac msofliom bevrjer ixila. amasTan, vixileT saqarTvelos premier- ministris mowiwebiT Casvla iranSi, es aris avtokratiuli lideris Camoyalibebis mcdeloba. avtokratiuli mmarTveloba ruseTsa da CineTs axasiaTebs da vxedavT, rom saqarTvelos xelisufleba cdilobs, am gziT wavides. swored es ewinaaRmdegeba mSvidobas (rogorc termins, xSirad mimarTaven), radgan axla msoflioSi civi omi mimdinareobs da am brZolaSi saqarTvelos xelisufleba cdilobs, qveyana gadaaqcios avtokratiuli samyaros nawilad, rac cudi ideaa, vinaidan es avtokratiuli samyaro imyofeba omebis mdgomareobaSi. SegaxsenebT imasac, rom saomar viTarebaSi ruseTi imyofeba ara mxolod dasavleTTan, aramed saqarTvelosTanac, Tavs nu movityuebT, ruseTs Cvens qveyanasTan omi ar Seuwyvetia. amas kargad vxedavT yoveldRiurad – ra xdeba saqarTvelos okupirebul teritoriebze.
– SesaZlebelia Tu ara, saqarTvelos mosaxleobas SeuCerdes uvizo mimosvla evrokavSiris qveynebSi?
– vfiqrob, rom saqarTvelos mosaxleoba xelisuflebis gamo ar unda daisajos. evrokavSirs kargad esmis, rom es unda iyos ukiduresi nabiji. maT am etapze SeuZliaT SezRudvebi dauweson, pirvel rigSi, saqarTvelos xelisuflebas da im adamianebs, romlebic pasuxismgebelni arian saqarTveloSi rusuli samarTlebrivi wesrigis damyarebaze. Tuki araferi Seicvala da arCevnebi gayalbda, anu saqarTvelom dasavluri kursi Seicvala, maSin sruliad SesaZlebelia, saqarTvelos mosaxleobas SeuCerdes vizaliberalizacia da Tu es moxda, iqneba saqarTvelos xelisuflebis brali.
– amaswinaT, saqarTvelos prezidentma `qarTuli qartia~ warudgina sazogadoebas, ras fiqrobT amaze?
– mimaCnia, rom saqarTvelos prezidentma metamorfoza ganicada. wlebis ganmavlobaSi mis mimarT pozitiuri damokidebuleba qarTul mosaxleobaSi naklebi iyo, magram axla vxedavT, rom Salome zurabiSvilma nel-nela avtoriteti moipova sazogadoebaSi, Sesabamisad, is warmoadgens erTgvar evropul simbolos, romelmac politikuri jgufebi gaaerTiana. politikuri lideris problema am qveyanaSi didi xnis ganmavlobaSi iyo, simboluri lideris mainc, magram axla vxedavT, rom simboluri lideri gaCnda da mas SeuZlia politikuri procesebi ufro jansaRad, ufro mSvid garemoSi warmarTos.
– ra SeiZleba opoziciaze iTqvas, ramdenad angariSgasawevi Zalaa?
– xelisuflebaSi opoziciis mosvla-armosvlaze ar unda gakeTdes aqcenti. dRes saqarTvelos winaSe gamoikveTa seriozuli wyalgamyofi momenti – saqarTvelos mosaxleobis garkveuli nawili xedavs, rom xelisufleba Tavisi qmedebiT aferxebs demokratiul procesebs da, aseve, evropul ganviTarebas. am mxriv, mniSvnelovan garemoebas minda mivapyro Tqveni yuradReba – adamians, romelsac cxovrebaSi erTxel eZleva Sansi, iyos Tavisufali, naxos, Seiswavlos, Seimecnos samyaro, amis gakeTeba, aristoteles filosofiuri xedvidan gamomdinare, mas SeuZlia samarTlebriv da Tavisufal garemoSi da Tuki saqarTvelos xelisufleba qveyanaSi ver Seqmnis aseT garemos, maSin mis mosaxleobas sasurveli momavali ar eqneba. vxedavT, ra mZime mdgomareobaSi imyofebian ruseTis mier datyvevebuli erebi. ruseTi aris erebis cixe da vxedavT imasac, ra mdgomareobaa ruseTis mokavSire saxelmwifoebSi, ar arsebobs ruseTis mokavSire warmatebeli saxelmwifo. amitom imaze aRar Rirs saubari, opozicia kargia Tu cudi. . . vfiqrob, opozicias Zalian bevri xarvezi aqvs. magram axla mTavaria, vis da ras aZlev xmas arCevnebSi – imas, rom qveyanaSi damyardes avtokratia da prorusuli mmarTveloba, Tu piriqiT, imas, rom es ar moxdes. diax, sakiTxi dgas swored ase. . . vTvli, rom moqmedi xelisuflebis arCeva qveynisTvis damazianebeli iqneba.
– ar wydeba saubari mesame Zalaze. . .
– am etapze mesame Zalis gamoCenisTvis sivrce da dro aRar arsebobs. saerTod, mesame Zala Cndeba maSin, roca politikuri procesebi Tavisufalia, jansaRi, axla ki politikuri procesebi imdenad arajansaR viTarebaSia gadasuli, rom naklebad savaraudoa mesame Zalis gamoCena. ra xedva unda Semoitanos am mesame Zalam iseTi, rasac ar ambobs opozicia da prezidenti. erT mxares dgas Zala, romelic ambobs, rom dasavleTi aris cudi, meore mxares aseve dgas Zala, romelic acxadebs, rom dasavleTi aris kargi, mesame Zalis saWiroeba, romelic Tavad waiyvans mosaxleobas dasavleTisken, am etapze aRar dgas. mosaxleobas gaazrebuli aqvs, rom dRes politikur partiebs ki ar aZlevs xmas, aramed qveynis politikur kurss.
– xom ar aris mosalodneli, rom Tavad xelisuflebam Seqmnas kontrolirebadi mesame Zala?
– Tuki sokoebiviT gaCndebian fsevdoopoziciuri Zalebi, isini xelisuflebis dasayrdeni iqnebian, magram axla fsevdoopoziciis gaCenis sivrce SezRudulia. Cven ukve gvaqvs fsevdoopoziciuri Zalebi `evropeli socialistebis~ da `xalxis Zalis~ saxiT, romlebic parlamentSi arian warmodgenilni.
– arCevnebSi mosaxleobis inertulobaze ras fiqrobT?
– aqciebis darbeva, rusuli samarTlebrivi wesrigis damkvidreba qveyanaSi, studentebis devna, politikosebis cema, es yvelaferi mosaxleobas aCvenebs, rom arCevnebSi monawileoba mniSvnelovania qveynis momavlisTvis,
misi evropuli kursisTvis. aqedan gamomdinare, vfiqrob, am arCevnebSi mosaxleobis aqtiuroba iqneba maRali, es arCevnebi unda iyos gamWvirvale. legitimuroba unda hqondes mTavrobas xalxis da dasavleTis TvalSi.
– ramdenad mosalodnelia, rom arCevnebis Sedegad koaliciuri mTavroba Camoyalibdes?
– Tu opoziciam kombinaciaSi ajoba xelisuflebas, koaliciuri mTavrobis Camoyalibeba realuria, arcerT opoziciur Zalas ar eqneba absoluturi umravlesoba, rom koaliciis gareSe marTos qveyana da es aris kargi. Cven davrwmundiT, rom yvela is mTavroba, romelic marTavda Cvens qveyanas koaliciis gareSe, iyo cudi, radgan am mTavrobebs realobis aRqma daekargaT.
– rogor gesaxebaT oqtombris arCevnebis mniSvneloba?
– axla saqarTvelos mosaxleoba ara mxolod politikur partiebs aZlevs xmas, aramed saqarTvelos momavals. evrokavSiri kidev erTxel gafarTovdeba 2030 wels da es iqneba saqarTvelosTvis bolo Sansi, romelic unda gamoviyenoT, unda davakmayofiloT is pirobebi, romelic Cven mogvitans evropuli cxovrebis dones. evrokavSiris standartebi unda davamkvidroT anu warmatebuli unda gavxdeT rogorc evrokavSiris wevri saxelmwifo, amis miRweva ki maSinaa SesaZlebeli, Tu qveyanaSi gonivrul da demokratiul reformebs gavatarebT, risi winapiroba sakanonmdeblo da aRmasrulebeli xelisuflebis mizanmimarTuli, swori muSaobaa, aseTi mmarTvelebi ki demokratiuli arCevnebis monapovaria. amitomac es arCevnebi aris gadamwyveti saqarTvelosTvis da misi momavlisTvis.

