ეს არჩევნები – რეფერენდუმის ნიშანსვეტით
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
winasaarCevno cieb-cxeleba daiwyo. araoficialurad gaixsna saarCevno maraToni, Seiqmna ramdenime opoziciuri centri, rac, erTi mxriv, opoziciis gaaqtiurebas cxadyofs, meore mxriv ki daqsaqsulobas avlens. eqspertTa TqmiT, erTiani, mZlavri opoziciuri centris Seqmna ufro momgebiani da angariSgasawevi iqneboda, magram partiis liderebs uZneldebaT pirvelobis daTmoba, yvelas surs, misi qolgis qveS moxdes gaerTianeba. cxadia, mmarTveli gundic aqtiurobs, igi mosaxleobas mniSvnelovani reformebis gatarebas hpirdeba da arCevnebSi gamarjvebasac aanonsebs. aRsaniSnavia isic, rom dasavleTis kritika saqarTvelos xelisuflebis mimarT matulobs. es, garkveulwilad, ganpirobebulia `ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb~ kanonis miRebiT. . . ismis kiTxva – rogoria dRes realoba, romelSic vcxovrobT. amaze, cxadia, opozicias da mmarTvel partias sxvadasxva mosazreba gaaCniaT. amjerad, amis Taobaze `droas~ aWaris organizaciis xelmZRvanel genri doliZes vesaubreT.
– rogor afasebT qveyanaSi arsebul viTarebas, ra aspeqtebs gamoyofdiT?
– bevrjer gvsmenia politikosebisgan gazviadebulad naTqvami, rom gadamwyveti Jami dgas, qveyana unda gadavarCinoT. vfiqrob, rom amJamad, yovelgvari gazviadebis gareSe, sakmaod Rrma krizisSia Sesuli Cveni qveyana da amis indikatori arian axalgazrdebi, anu Sromisunariani adamianebi, romelTa nakadi yoveldRiurad gaedineba saqarTvelodan uperspeqtivobis gamo. aq sakuTar momavals, usafrTxo garemos ver xedaven. Sesabamisad, Tu ase gagrZelda, savaraudoa, rom ase aT weliwadSi, SesaZloa Cvens qveyanaSi saqarTvelos moqalaqeebi umciresobaSi aRmovCndeT. amitom Zalian mniSvnelovania, saxelmwifo gamoviyvanoT ekonomikuri, samarTlebrivi, politikuri da demografiuli krizisebidan. amas veraviTar SemTxvevaSi ver SevZlebT, Tuki oqtomberSi ver gavistumrebT xelisuflebidan `qarTul ocnebas~.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi acxadeben, rom opoziciis braldebebi usafuZvloa da opoziciuri speqtris mizani qveyanaSi revoluciis mowyobaa. . .
– `qarTuli ocnebis~ wevrebma Sexedon benzinis fass, produqtebis fasebs maRaziebSi, valutis kurss da aseve – aeroportebSi qarTvelebis rigs, romlebic Rirseuli cxovrebis, Rirseuli anazRaurebis, Tavisi Svilebis momavlisTvis yoveldRiurad evropasa da amerikaSi midian samuSaod da sacxovreblad. . . samwuxarod, pozitiurisken araferi Secvlila am qveyanaSi. `qarTulma ocnebam~ Caibara okupirebuli saxelmwifo da gvaqvs okupirebuli saxelmwifo, piriqiT, ufro meti mavTulxlarTi gaabes Sida qarTlSi, ufro meti sofeli miiTvisa ruseTma, arcerTi udidesi, mniSvnelovani infrastruqturuli proeqtic ar dawyebula ise, rom mmarTvel gunds Tavad moeba Tavi. aris mcire infrastruqturuli winsvlebi, magram es yvelaferi an evrokavSiris dafinansebulia, an aziis ganviTarebis bankis mier. me ver vixseneb Zalian did, masStabur, grandiozul proeqts, romelic `qarTuli ocnebis~ mier Cafiqrebuli da ganxorcielebuli iyos. Sesabamisad, am xnis ganmavlobaSi mmarTvelma Zalam ver moaxerxa erTi nabijiTac win waewia Cveni qveyana da is umniSvnelovanesi procesi, rasac evrointegracia hqvia, rac davimsaxureT da movipoveT. mmarTvel partias eklad esoba gulze, mis rusul saqmeebs ar esadageba da cdilobs, ramenairad CamogvaSoros evropul gzas da dagvakarginos es monapovari.
– amaswinaT, Tqvenma partiam (`droa~) `girCi – meti TavisuflebasTan~ da `axalTan~ erTad platforma Seqmna, es ra faqtorebma ganapiroba?
– sazogadoebrivi dakveTa aris erTianoba. am etapze, rodesac qveynisTvis egzistencialuri sakiTxi dgas, ar aris azrTa sxvaobis da erTmaneTTan jibris dro. axla qveyanaSi mniSvnelovani procesi midis da rac SeiZleba metma partiam unda SeZlos, daTmos sakuTari ego da gansxvavebuli xedvebis miuxedavad, iTanamSromlos opoziciur partiebTan, romlebic met-naklebad mis ideologiasTanaa axlos. Sesabamisad, Cven, samma partiam (`droa~, `girCi – meti Tavisufleba~ da `axali~), es SevZeliT da sazogadoebis dakveTas vupasuxeT imiT, rom davTmeT sakuTari personaluri da partiuli ambiciebi, raTa naklebi gadaunawilebeli mandati Sexvdes `qarTul ocnebas~ arCevnebis Sedegad.
– arCevnebze ra Sansi aqvs Tqvens platformas da ratom ar Seiqmna erTiani opoziciuri centri?
– ar miyvars, politikosebi sakuTar partias rom aqeben. es sakuTari Tavis qebis tolfasia, amomrCevelma Seafasos, rogorebi varT, Tumca, ra Tqma unda, maqvs prognozi, rom erT-erT gadamwyvet rols ivaniSvilis gastumrebaSi Seasrulebs Cveni partia, sxva partiebTan erTad, bunebrivia. amaSi var darwmunebuli, ris safuZvelsac maZlevs im adamianebis saarCevno, politikuri, profesiuli gamocdileba, romlebmac Tavi moiyares am platformaSi – `axalis~, `girCi – meti Tavisuflebi~ da `droas~ saxiT.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, rom Tu opozicia erTiani frontiT ar gava arCevnebze, xelisuflebas gauadvildeba arCevnebis mogeba, ras fiqrobT?
– nawilobriv marTlebi arian. didi plusi aqvs msxvil opoziciur gaerTianebas, anu erTiani flangiT Setevas biZina ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg prodasavluri partiebis mxridan, Tumca amas aqvs Zalian didi minusebic da riskebic. Cven viciT, rom qarTveli amomrCeveli ar xelmZRvanelobs mxolod da mxolod garkveuli partiis simpaTiiT. saqarTveloSi aris Zalian didi procenti amomrCevlebisa, romlebic xmebs aZleven ara imis gamo, rom romelime partia moswonT. aramed imis winaaRmdeg, vinc ar moswonT. Sesabamisad, am SemTxvevaSi Cven davkargavdiT Zalian bevr amomrCevels, romelsac, magaliTad, ar unda `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ Semoxazva. arian iseTebic, vinc arc `nacmoZraobas~ da arc `qarTul ocnebas~ ar Semoxazavs da aseTi amomrCeveli darCeboda saxlSi. bunebrivia, `nacmoZraobas~ hyavs amomrCeveli, romelic ar Semoxazavs sxva partiis liderebs, viRacas ar moswons `girCi~, viRacas – `droa~ da `lelo~. vfiqrob, arCevanis saSualeba aris yvelaze swori da jansaRi gadawyvetileba. xelovnur erTobas sjobia jansaRi konkurencia, ra Tqma unda, garkveul sakiTxebze TanamSromloba, magram mainc arCevanis ufleba amomrCevlisTvis, anu konkurencia mniSvnelovania.
– qveynis premier-ministrma irakli kobaxiZem ganacxada, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ kidev 12 weli apirebs xelisuflebaSi yofnas, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– arajansaRi da arademokratiulia nebismieri partiis ambicia da survili, xelisufleba SeinarCunos 25 wlis ganmavlobaSi, anu SeinarCunos xuTi vadiT. normalur qveyanaSi aseT gancxadebas premier-ministri ver gabedavda. premier-ministris zemoaRniSnuli gancxadeba niSania imisa, rom maT aqvT ganacxadi, Seqmnan avtoritaruli reJimi, sxva SemTxvevaSi ar arsebobs precedenti, demokratiulma sazogadoebam 25 wlis ganmavlobaSi erTi da igive xelisufleba moiyvanos qveynis saTaveSi.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT dasavlur gzavnilebs saqarTveloSi. . .
– dasavleTisTvis saqarTvelo, iseve, rogorc saqarTvelosTvis dasavleTi, aris strategiuli partniori, strategiuli placdarmi. misTvis umniSvnelovanesia aRmosavleTiT gafarToeba. Sesabamisad, dasavleli partniorebisTvisac ar aris martivi Sesaguebeli `qarTuli ocnebis~ dRevandeli politika. Zalian didi resursi aqvs Cadebuli evrokavSirs saqarTveloSi biznesis, infrastruqturis, demokratiuli garemos ganviTarebisTvis da ar aris martivi, amdenwliani Sroma, daxmareba, Tanadgoma erTi xelis mosmiT Caiyaros wyalSi. Sesabamisad, maTi gancxadebebi niSania imisa, rom `qarTuli ocnebis~ xelisufleba da dRevandeli politika aris wiTeli xazi dasavleTisTvis. mmarTveli partiis suliskveTeba, propaganda, ideologia da gadadgmuli nabijebi ar gvaaxloebs evropasTan, rasac Zalian kargad xedaven Cveni dasavleli partniorebi da gansxvavebiT arademokratiuli ruseTisa da CineTisgan, romlebic lamis strategiul partniorebad ganixilos mmarTvelma partiam, gveubneba, rom Tu gvinda ganviTareba, maTTan Tanacxovreba, maSin unda SevqmnaT demokratiuli mowyobis saxelmwifo. winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, isini gvafrTxileben, rom Cven SeiZleba davrCeT didi xnis nanatri evrointegraciis gareSe.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi acxadeben, rom dasavluri gzavnilebi arc ise sagangaSoa, Tanac dasZenen, saqarTvelo evrokavSiris wevri 2030 wels gaxdeba. . .
– bunebrivia, mmarTveli partiisTvis gancxadeba dasavleTis gzavnilebTan dakavSirebiT, isini Seecdebian, propagandiT gadafaron es gzavnilebi, TiTqos globaluri omis partia an arakeTilmosurne garkveuli individebi akeTeben `qarTuli ocnebis~ sawinaaRmdego gancxadebebs evropaSi. arada, TvalsaCinoa, rom yvela Cveni partniori, romelic wlebis ganmavlobaSi lobirebda saqarTvelos evrointegracias, natoSi gawevrianebas, SeSfoTebulia dRevandeli mdgomareobiT. visac marTla saqmiT aqvs damtkicebuli Cveni megobroba, gvafrTxileben, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ migvaqanebs ruseTisken. Sesabamisad, rac unda iZaxos mmarTvelma gundma, rom es yvelaferi tyuilia, es iqneba propaganda, radgan naTelia dasavleTis mesijboqsi. isini ukve diplomatiur enasac aRar iyeneben, pirdapiri kritikiT gamodian evroparlamentSi da sxva struqturebSi saqarTvelos xelisuflebis winaaRmdeg. ukve marTla dgas safrTxe, rom SeiZleba SegviCeron evrointegraciis procesi… xelisuflebis dapireba, rom 2030 wels gavxdebiT evrokavSiris wevri, rom erT weliwadSi ukrainis omi dasruldeba, aris tyuili da gaTvlilia moklevadian efeqtze imitom, rom maT aqvT mxolod da mxolod imis survili, rom moaxerxon `damkaSi~ gaZroma da oqtomberSi isev xelisuflebaSi darCena, Semdeg ki antidasavluri narativis gagrZeleba.
– kvlav arCevnebs davubrundeT, opozicia ramdenad safuZvelianad uxsnis mosaxleobas arCevnebze misvlis aucileblobas?
– aucilebelia ara mxolod is, rom metad gaaqtiurdnen opoziciuri partiebi, aramed saRad moazrovne adamianebma mis irgvliv yvela adamians STaagonon TiToeuli individis roli arCevnebis procesSi. TiToeuli xma SesaZlebelia gadamwyveti iyos Cveni qveynis yofna-aryofnisTvis. amitom nebismieri gonieri, kritikulad moazrovne moqalaqe valdebulia, rom yvelas Seaxsenos da gauwios konsultacia, rogor, ranairad, ra formiT unda mivideT arCevnebze, ra unda gavakeToT imisaTvis, rom saarCevno procesi normalurad, demokratiulad warimarTos. imedi maqvs, kidev metad gaaqtiurdebian opoziciuri partiebi. ZalTa konsolidacia amis pozitiur molodins miCens, Tumca es ar aris sakmarisi, saWiroa TiToeul regionSi, municipalitetSi darazmuli muSaoba, TiToeul karze dakakuneba da yvela amomrCevlis informireba Tundac axali teqnologiebiT Casatarebel arCevnebze, anu teqnikuri detalebis gacnoba mosaxleobisTvis.
– yvela politikuri Zala 2024 wlis arCevnebze sakuTar gamarjvebaze saubrobs, ras fiqrobT?
– Cveulebrivi movlenaa, rom yvela politikurma partiam isaubros sakuTar upiratesobaze. es asec unda iyos. me ar vTvli, rom partiebs Soris arCevnebia, es aris referendumi da Zalian didi imedi maqvs, rom amomrCevelTa didi nawili mxars dauWers prodasavlur orbitaze myof politikur partiebs. `qarTuli qartiis~ mizania, xelisuflebaSi ar movides erTi konkretuli Zala, aramed movides dabalansebuli, anu koaliciuri Zala, gvyavdes droebiTi mTavroba, Catardes qveyanaSi reformebi, davubrundeT realur cxovrebas da maSin momdevno arCevnebi ukve partiebs, ideologiebs, liderebs Soris iqneba arCevanis gakeTebis saSualeba.
– rogor gadanawildeba Zalebi momaval parlamentSi?
– minda, amomrCevelma erT faqtze gaamaxvilos yuradReba da gaiTvaliswinos, rom 2024 wlis arCevnebi aris sruliad proporciuli arCevnebi da wina arCevnebis monacemebiTac ki mmarTvel gunds ar hqonda imis resursi, rom umravlesobiT daekompleqtebina parlamenti. man saparlamento umravlesoba mxolod da mxolod maJoritarebis xarjze SeZlo. dRes es berketi xelisuflebas ar gaaCnia. Sesabamisad, `qarTuli ocneba~ veranairi konfiguraciiT ver daagrovebs xmaTa umravlesobas am parlamentSi, xolo opozicias Soris rogor gadanawildeba mandatebi, amis prognozi Zalian rTulia imitom, rom bevri Zala monawileobs arCevnebSi, Tumca Zalian didi imedi maqvs, rom Cveni koalicia `cvlilebebisTvis~ gadamwyvet rols Seasrulebs am arCevnebSi. amis Tqmis safuZvels iZleva is, rom aqa arian swored is gamocdili adamianebi, profesionali kadrebi, axali saxeebi, romelTac aqvT arCevnebis mogebis eleqtoraluri, inteleqtualuri resursi. . . Cven SevZlebT, amomrCevelTa didi nawili davarwmunoT Cvens upiratesobaSi da Rirseulad viyoT warmodgenili koaliciur mmarTvelobaSi, rogorc aWaraSi, ise centralur doneze.
– dabolos, aris Tu ara saqarTvelos 2024 wlis arCevnebi istoriuli mniSvnelobis?
– nebismieri arCevnebi aris umniSvnelovanesi nebismieri qveynis istoriaSi, Tumca am arCevnebs aqvs referendumis xasiaTi, radgan virCevT ara mxolod konkretul partiebs, aramed qveynis dasavlur kurss da Tu mivcemT mandats prodasavlur politikur partiebs, SevZlebT, qveyana gadavarCinoT xelaxal gasabWoebas da 90-ian wlebSi dabrunebas. winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, miviRebT qveyanas, romelic iqneba sicocxlisgan, axalgazrdebisgan da imedisgan daclili.
