ქართული ოცნების” თანმიმდევრული პოლიტიკა ქმნის ამ ქვეყანაში მომავლის პერსპექტივას…”
irma cecxlaZe 27 48 93
`aWarasTan~ saubarSi, aWaris umaRlesi sabWos janmrTelobis dacvisa da socialur sakiTxTa komitetis Tavmjdomare, maJoritari deputati ilia verZaZe ganixilavs eleqtronul arCevnebs, maJoritaruli sistemis gauqmebasa da winasaarCevno viTarebas saqarTvelosa da aWaraSi. gTavazobT masTan intervius.
– batono ilia, `qarTuli ocneba~ eleqtronulad apirebs arCevnebis Catarebas. ramdenad gamarTlebulad migaCniaT es sistema?
– `qarTuli ocnebis~ Tanmimdevruli politika qmnis am qveyanaSi momavlis perspeqtivas, xelisuflebaSi mosvlis dRidan, mudmivad cdilobs reformebis gatarebas standartebis asamaRleblad, imis miuxedavad, rom es reformebi, SesaZloa, misive komfortis zonas amcirebdes. magram Cven vmuSaobT arCevnebis demokratizaciis, azris Tavisuflad gamoxatvis da Tanamedrove sistemebTan SesabamisobaSi mosvlis mimarTulebiT. am mxriv, marTlac bevri ram gavakeTeT, maT Soris iyo sadavo Temebic, rac kiTxvebs iwvevda. erTi ram SemiZlia xmamaRla ganvacxado, rom dResdReobiT arCevnebi saqarTveloSi gaxda ufro samarTliani da gamWvirvale, romelic maqsimalurad, zustad asaxavs mosaxleobis ganwyobas da iZleva arCevanis srul Tavisuflebas.
igives emsaxureba eleqtronuli arCevnebic. ukve mowesrigda sistema da amomrCevlebis 95% eleqtronulad miscems xmas misTvis sasurvel politikur partias. aparatebi montaJdeba 90-ze met saarCevno ubanSi da darwmunebuli var, gaqreba xelovnurad Seqmnili eWvebi Tu ybadaRebuli kiTxvebi, romliTac garkveuli partiebi cdilobdnen sakuTari ususroba gadaefaraT. am sistemiT subieqturi situaciebi minimumamde Semcirdeba, radgan specialuri aparati dadebs obieqtur Sedegs, romelzec warmoudgenelia gavlena, vinaidan ar aris dakavSirebuli arc internetTan da arc eleqtronul Tu cifrul matareblebTan. yvela es miRweva `qarTuli ocnebis~ Tanmimdevruli politikis Sedegia, romelic aseve, moicavs maJoritaruli sistemis gauqmebas.
– Tqven, rogorc maJoritari, ramdenad marTebulad TvliT am gadawyvetilebas, gamodis, mosaxleobas umcirdeba parlamentamde xmis miwvdenis saSualeba?
– rac mosaxleobisTvis yvelaze mniSvnelovani iyo, anu rogorc aRniSneT `xmis miwvdena~ – davtoveT. yvela partias saSualeba aqvs, gamoiyenos e.w. warmomadgenlobis sistema im formiT, rogorsac Tavad SearCevs. nebismier parlamentSi gasul politikur organizacias SeuZlia, warmomadgeneli hyavdes im regionSi, romelsac saWirod CaTvlis. amiT SevecadeT, SegvenarCunebina is, rac dadebiTi iyo maJoritarul sistemaSi. partiul siaSi aRiniSneba pirovneba da amomrCevels ecodineba, konkretulad romeli partiidan vin iqneba misi warmomadgeneli qveynis parlamentSi, vis unda mimarTos saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi. rac Seexeba imas, rom opozicia gvabralebda maJoritaruli sistemis xaziT TiTqos garantirebuli umravlesoba gvqonda qveynis sakanonmdeblo organoSi da swored amitom ar vauqmebdiT mas, axla aRarc es eqneba salaparako.
– miuxedavad amisa, opozicia mainc Tvlis, rom axla ukve eleqtronuli xmis micemis aparatebiT SeZlebs xelisufleba xmebis gayalbebas. . .
– enas Zvali ara aqvs, isini yvelafers iyeneben usafuZvlo brladebisTvis. an is gancxadeba rad Rirs, rom axlave Tanxmdebian gaficvebis mosawyobad, TiTqos darwmunebuli arian arCevnebis gayalbebaSi. dameTanxmeT, absoluturad absurduli mtkicebulebaa. eleqtronuli arCevnebi rom ar SemogveRo, ityodnen, eSiniaT gayalbebis da imitomo. . . anu rac unda gavakeToT, mainc igives amtkiceben. qoTans iqidan abamen saxelurs, saidanac awyobT.
– da ra unda qnaT?
– araferi, rogorc yovelTvis, ar unda mivaqcioT yuradReba da vakeToT, rac gvevaleba, radgan vurTierTobT xalxTan, romelic kargad xedavs, ra keTdeba qveyanaSi, sworad afasebs arsebul mSvidobas da im reformebs, romelic mudmivad xorcieldeba saqarTveloSi. `ocneba~ kontaqts amyarebs sakuTar amomrCevelTan, saidanac adekvatur ukukavSirs iRebs. mosaxleoba xedavs, rogor ewyoba infrastruqtura, imis miuxedevad, rom opozicia apelirebs, TiTqos gaveranebulia irgvliv yvelaferi da dapauzda qveyanao. an is rad Rirs, rodesac korufcia yvaviso -amtkiceben, xolo saerTaSoriso institutebi absoluturad sapirispiro daskvnebs asajaroeben, sadac mowinave poziciebze varT. opozicia imasac ambobs, rom demokratia iRupebao, Tumca igive institutebi weren, rom demokratiis xarisxiT, Tavisuflebis maRali indeqsiT da marTvis efeqturobiT evrokavSiris bevr qveyanas vuswrebT. . . rogorc ukve vTqvi, Cven maTi dRis wesrigiT ver vimoqmedebT, Cveni gegmebi gvaqvs, kerZod, am qveyanaSi wesrigis SenarCuneba, infrastruqturis ganviTareba da moqalaqeebis keTildReoba.
– `qarTuli ocneba~ zedized modis xelisuflebaSi, ramdenad adasturebs es qveyanaSi demokratiulobis maRal xarisxs?
– vinc ver erkveva politikaSi an cdilobs mosaxleobis SecdomaSi Seyvanas, arc ainteresebs, ratom da rogor mimdinareobs esa Tu is procesi. xelisuflebaSi yofnis jeradoba gansazRvrulia, rodesac aris individualuri Tanamdebobebi da rodesac zedized irCeven erTsa da imave pirovnebas (ufro prezidenti igulisxmeba). anu prezidentis arCeva isazRvreba ara umetes ori periodiT. Tuki am procesma miiRo mravaljeradi saxe, maSin ukve saqme gvaqvs tiraniasTan. rodesac saparlamento respublikis jeradobazea saubari, rogorc minimum, politikis ucodinrobaa, radgan erTi da igive politikuri organizacia SeiZleba qveynis saTaveSi movides zedized aTjer. es arc erT qveyanaSi ar izRudeba da amis saukeTeso magaliTia germania, sadac qristian-demokratiuli partia zedized modis xelisuflebaSi. kancleri angela merkelic ar SeucvliaT xuTgzis. Tuki mcire eqskurss gavakeTebT, vnaxavT, rom 2005 wels, rodesac angela merkeli pirvelad gaxda germaniis kancleri, jer kidev ar arsebobda iPhone, liberaluri demokratiis modeli ki hegemoniuri iyo. merkelis kanclerobis periodSi safrangeTsa da aSS-Si Seicvala 4 prezidenti, 5 premieri gamoicvala didma britaneTma da 8 – italiam. is axlac mTavrobis wevria. dRes olaf Solci marTavs qveyanas, romelic igive partiis warmomadgenelia. Qqristianul-demokratiuli partia 6-jer movida germaniaSi umravlesobiT, ra Tqma unda, sxvadasxva konfiguraciiT. axla mwvaneTa partia hyavs gverdiT, manamde – Tavisufal demokratTa kavSiri, ufro adre socialistebsac Seekra. . . yvelafer amas pirobiTad geubnebiT, raTa avxsna, rom is, rac Cven irgvliv xdeba, evrokavSiris qveynebisTvis aprobirebuli procesia. gaixseneT, pirveli oTxi weli sxva partiebTn hqonda koalicia `qarTul ocnebas~, Semdeg sampartiuli kavSiri Seikra `mwvaneebTan~ da `socialistebTan~, axla kavSiri gvaqvs `xalxis ZalasTan~. . . anu aTasnairi konfiguraciaa SesaZlebeli, aq saubari jeradobaze ararelevanturi da uadgiloa. nebismieri politikuri partia iqmneba xelisuflebaSi mosasvlelad, xolo ra sididiT, ra koaliciiT da konfiguraciiT mova, amas arsebiTi mniSvneloba ara aqvs. am Temaze saubari, isev da isev, xalxis SecdomaSi Seyvanaa, aqaoda, ukve ramdejer iyvnen da kidev ramdenjer unda movidneno. SeiZleba, ramdenime adamiani daajeron, romlebic avtomaturad gaavleben paralels prezidentis institutTan da aRniSnaven, rom marTlac ramdenjer unda movidneno. . . aq mTavaria, ar ganmeordes pirovneba. kargad viciT, rac xdeba, rodesac orjer modis kaci prezidentis Tanamdebobaze, Semdeg konstutucias gadaakeTebs da igive uflebebiT premierad mogvevlineba an gaixseneT mezobeli qveyana, rogori gacvla-gamocvla iTamaSes. ai, msgavsi ram iqceva Semdeg problemad.
– `rusul kanonTan~ dakavSirebiT ras gvetyviT, TiTqos ucxoeTidan saqarTvelosTvis gamiznuli bevri daxmareba Sewyda da uamravi proeqti SeCerda, maT Soris aWaraSic?
– ara, ara, daxmarebebi saerTod arafer SuaSia. es aris kanoni, romliTac ganisazRvreba mxolod da mxolod Semosavlebis deklarireba. es Cveulebrivi sakanonmdeblo normaa. msoflios bevrma qveyanam miiRo da bevri apirebs mis miRebas. am kanonis gamo atexili aJiotaJi, isev da isev, qveyanaSi Cveuli ritmis darRvevis, moqalaqeebis dezorientaciis, qveyanaSi destabilizaciis mcdeloba iyo da meti araferi. adrec vTqvi, rom ar arsebobs axalgazrda, ganaTlebuli adamiani, romelic brmad ahyveba zRaprebs da ar waikiTxavs kanons, sadac yvelaferi garkveuladaa gawerili, yovelgvari qveteqstebis gareSe. mokled, vinc waikiTxavs, mixvdeba, rom mis irgvliv datrialebuli aurzauri sruli absurdia.
– ratom Searqves `rusuli kanoni~?
– amiT asociaciurad akavSirebdnen ruseTTan, Torem Cven mier miRebul kanons araferi aqvs saerTo rusulTan. kerZod, rusuli kanoni saerTod ukrZalavs qveynis samoqalaqo organizaciebs, dafinansdnen ucxoeli donorebisgan saqvelmoqmedo, saganmanaTleblo da politikuri aqtivobis mimarTulebiT. frangul kanonSi ki aRniSnulia, rom ucxoeTidan dafinansebul organizacias ekrZaleba raime saxis politikuri aqtivoba da gancxadebebis gakeTeba. qarTuli kanoni, mxolod da mxolod, finansuri deklaraciis Sevsebas iTxovs. sapirispiro SemTxvevaSi organizacias emuqreba jarima da Tuki ar gadaixdis dakisrebul Tanxas, aravin SeuCerebs am organizacias moqmedebis Tavisuflebas. aranairi akrZalvebi ar aris gawerili. ar vici, aq ra SuaSia SeCerebuli proeqtebi da dakarguli finansebi. Tuki donori organizaciebi ar moindomoben sakuTari saxsrebis monitorings, deklaraciis Sevsebas da amis gamo Sewyveten ama Tu im proeqtis dafinansebas, es ukve sul sxva Temaa.
– am arCevnebSi vin migaCniaT realur metoqed da rogoria amJamad ZalTa gadanawileba partiebs Soris?
– vfiqrob, am etapze realuri metoqe arc gvyavs. `nacionalebs~ veRar miviCnevT realur Zalad. Tavad airCies es gza, albaT, viRacam urCia, rom es saxeli ar moswons amomrCevelTa umravlesobas. amJamad, `nacmoZraoba~ warmodgenilia mravali saTauris qveS. albaT, imedi aqvT, rom aseTi saxiT saTiTaod mainc gadalaxaven xuTprocentian bariers. . . ra miiRes am gaxleCviT, ver gavige, erTmaneTs gaufuWes saqme da TavisTavad daiSalnen. rac Seexeba realur metoqes, erTiani, Rirseuli partiis dasaxeleba Znelia, radgan saqarTvelos politikur velze ar arsebobs aseTi.
– ra gakeTda aWaraSi am bolo dros?
– aWaraSi Zalian bevri ram ukve gakeTda da axlac keTdeba, marto gzebis dageba da keTilmowyoba rad Rirs. rogorc ukve viciT, goderZis uReltexilamde misulia SemovliTi gza. xulodanac didi manZilia gavlili da mimdinareobs intensiuri muSaoba. baTumSi infrastruqturuli proeqtebi erTi-meoris miyolebiT sruldeba. ixsneba axal-axali obieqtebi, sawarmoebi, fabrikebi, skverebi, parkebi. gamwvanebis politikac, albaT, xedavT, rogor maRal donezea. ukve aRar arsebobs qalaqis cudi Tu kargi ubani, mTisZiris quCamde mowesrigebulia yvelaferi. baTumis SemovliTi gzac dRes-xval dasruldeba. baTumi-Tbilisis magistraliT ramdenad Semcirda manZili da rogori komfortulia mgzavroba, Tqvenc iciT. soflis meurneobis kuTxiTac uamravi ram keTdeba. yvelafers namdvilad ver CamovTvli. . . da rac mTavaria, msoflio omebis fonze CvenTan arsebuli mSvidoba kidev ufro mravlismetyvelia da zemoT CamoTvlili miRwevebi gacilebiT met azrs iZens. aqedan gamomdinare, minda, mivmarTo eleqtorats, rom xmis micemis dros gaixsenos, gaiazros yvelaferi, rac am qveyanaSi xdeba, rac yvelas Tvalwinaa, rac xilulia da gaakeTos sakuTari arCevani civi gonebiT, dafiqrebis safuZvelze.
