„უნდა ჩამოყალიბდეს დროებითი მთავრობა და დროებითი პარლამენტი“. . .
irma cecxlaZe –
winasaarCevno periodSi manam, sanam jer kidev mimdinareobs politikur ZalTa gadanawileba, sakmaod qaosuri viTarebaa. calkeuli politikosebi cdiloben situaciis Sefasebas da maTTvis marTebuli arCevanis gakeTebas. yoveldRiuri procesebi swrafad viTardeba da aravin icis, sabolood romeli cnobili politikuri saxe romel partiaSi Tu koaliciaSi aRmoCndeba. bevrma, saerTod, gadawyvita CamoSordes politikas, radgan aRar surs daZabul da dauwyobel saarCevno situaciaSi CarTva.
gTavazobT intervius aWaris umaRlesi sabWos deputatTan, sakonstitucio, iuridiul da saproceduro sakiTxTa komitetis Tavmjdomaris moadgile medea vasaZesTan.
– daviwyoT winasaarCevno periodis mimoxilviT. . .
– axla marTlac saintereso, amasTan, mZime da rTuli winasaarCevno periodia. Cemi uzarmazari politikuri gamocdilebis miuxedavad, ver vixseneb partiaTa aseT mravalferovnebas da msgavs politikur qaoss, miT umetes, aseTi `mZimewoniani~ politikuri subieqtebis CarTvis TvalsazrisiT.
– raRac kategoriebad xom mainc SeiZleba politikuri gaerTianebebis dayofa, raze unda gaakeTos amomrCevelma aqcenti?
– arCevani unda gaakeTos ruseTis Semyure partiebsa da evropuli mimarTulebis mqone politikur gaerTianebebs Soris. amomrCevelma unda gaiTvaliswinos, ramxela pasuxismgebloba ekisreba ama Tu im partiisTvis xmis micemis SemTxvevaSi, radgan masze iqneba damokidebuli, saqarTvelo visi gavlenis qveS moeqceva. swored am arCevnebze wydeba qveynis bedi. TiToeuli CvenganisTvis mniSvnelovania, ra gvelis win mTel ers.
– qalbatono medea, ra poziciis dakavebas apirebT moaxloebul arCevnebSi, gaqvT Tu ara konkretuli SemoTavazebebi?
– urTulesi arCevanis winaSe vdgavar. imis miuxedavad, rom uamravi adamiani mikavSirdeba, mekiTxeba, mainc ver vaxerxeb miviRo saboloo gadawyvetileba, jer kidev ar var Camoyalibebuli. isic ki gamovacxade, rom aqtiuri politikidan mivdivar. faqtia, rom asakic maqvs, janmrTelobac ar miwyobs xels. . . rac Seexeba SemoTavazebebs, iseTi winadadeba miviRe, romelzec Rirs dafiqreba. axla ver gavaJRereb, magram Tuki sabolood gadavwyvite, maSin ganvacxadeb. . . aqve calsaxad vambob, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobidan~ wamovedi da ar vapireb dabrunebas. `qarTul ocnebaSi~ darCenac CemTvis warmoudgeneli gaxda Tavis droze, arc axla Secvlila raime. . .
– maxsovs, did imedebs amyarebdiT maSin `nacionalebze~. . .
– diax, marTali xarT, magram Cemi `nacionalebTan~ integracia ver moxerxda verc maSin da verc Semdeg. mogexsenebaT, maTTan mwvave oponirebis 9 weli makavSirebs, Tumca am bolo oTxi wlis ganmavlobaSi diskomforti ar Semqmnia, araviTari SezRudva ar migrZnia. xandaxan vfiqrobdi, aseTi Tavisufali rogor var da veWvianobdi kidec, Cems adgils `nacionalebi~ dakargulad xom ar miiCnevdnen. . .
– amis miuxedavad, mainc ver SeewyveT partias, romlis kvotiTac umaRles sabWoSi moxvdiT?
– diax, ver movaxerxe integrireba, TiTqmis arc davdiodi `erTiani nacionaluri moZraobis~ ofisSi. modiT, ase vTqvaT, es ar iyo Cemi adgili, sadac sakuTari pirovnebis bolomde gamoxatvas SevZlebdi. sul sxva garemo aRmoCnda. saTqmeli bevri mqonda, rogorc `ocnebis~, ise `nacionalebis~ Sesaxeb, magram ver vaxerxebdi amomwuravad meTqva is, rasac vTvlidi saWirod aqeTac da iqiTac. mokled rom vTqvaT, ver viyavi maincdamainc kargad. . . aqve minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da davafiqsiro pozicia: axlac mimaCnia, rom saakaSvili cixeSi ar unda ijdes. misi gareT yofna am etapze, moqmedi xelisuflebis winaaRmdeg sabrZolvelad uebari wamalia.
– ramdenad SesaZlebelia saakaSvilis gaTavisufleba?
– ise Caketes samarTlebrivad, rom misi gaTavisufleba am etapze veRar xerxdeba. principSi, jer kidev ar viciT, rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi.
– romel politikur Zalas aqvs am etapze yvelaze mkveTrad gansazRvruli prioriteti?
– aseTi prioriteti aqvs yvela partias, romelsac evropuli mimarTuleba da gza aqvs arCeuli. aq aris rogorc `nacionaluri moZraoba~, aseve melia-gvaramias, xazaraZe-gaxarias gundebi. faqtia, amaTgan avirCev romelimes, maTac TavianTi codvebi aqvT da arc Tu ise mcire. . . magram radganac axla met-naklebad vimyofebi prezidentis qartiis gavlenis qveS, mainc vfiqrob, rom am arCevnebis SedegebiT unda Camoyalibdes droebiTi mTavroba, droebiTi parlamenti, xolo rodesac damSviddeba qveyana da mwyobrSi Cadgeba politikuri speqtri, unda Catardes axali saparlamento arCevnebi.
– risi imedi gaqvT am gadavadebiT?
– iqneb gamoCndes axali politikuri Zala, an ise gadaxalisdes, gajansaRdes partiebis Semadgenlobebi, rom SeZlon sakanonmdeblo da aRmasrulebel xelisuflebaSi mosvla da qveynis normalurad marTva. es aris Cemi piradi azri, me ase minda da Tu momeswro, Zalian bednieri viqnebi. . . cudi periodia axla saqarTveloSi, amxela undobloba, uimedoba, farisevloba, tyuilebi, bodiSebi mtris mimarT. . . Cveni moqmedi xelisufalis am qmedebam ki ar gamabraza, damstresa. . . an am transgenderi qalis mkvleloba ra iyo. . . mimaCnia, rom es moxda xelisuflebis araswori politikis gamo.
– Tu SeiZleba daakonkreteT ras gulisxmobT?
– am adamianebze xelisuflebis mxridan waqezeba arafriT ar SeiZleba. Tuki arafers aSaveben, kriminali Tu ar aris, vacaloT am xalxs ise cxovreba, rogorc undaT. an is mamakacebi janmrTelebi arian, vinc maTTan Tanacxovrebas ewevian? srulfasovnad, me arc imaT vTvli, arada, ramdeni maxinji qcevis, bunebis qals vxvdebiT sociumSi… kesaria lamazi mainc iyo… da amitom yvelam Tavis mamidas da karadebSi sakuTar `skiletebs~ mixedos.
– ukacravad, magram xelisufleba ra SuaSia mTel am tragediasTan, mkvleli xom pirad urTierTobebSi imyofeboda msxverplTan da manamdec emuqreboda fizikuri angariSsworebiT?
– ubedureba swored is aris, rom kesaria abramiZe mokles sul raRac erTi dRis Semdeg, rac saqarTvelos parlamentma 
-LGBT kanoni miiRo, anu mkvleli, qvecnobierSi mainc fiqrobs, rom saxelmwifo da Sesabamisad kanoni, loialuri iqneba ganaCenis gamotanisas. . . winmswrebi propagandac araswori iyo.
– `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~, faqtobrivad, daiSala, riTac aSkarad dakarga konkurentunarianoba. . .
– `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ gaixliCa jer kidev maSin, rodesac maTTan TanamSromlobis Sua periodSi viyavi. piradad me, Zalian momwons giorgi kirTaZe da vTvli, rom misi wasvla Cveni Svidkaciani jgufisTvis iyo didi danakargi. giorgis maRali reitingi hqonda qalaqSi, Tumca maSin mas zurgs umagrebda `nacionaluri moZraoba~. dRes ras izams am mxardaWeris gareSe, ver getyviT. TbilisSic igive situaciaa am mimarTulebiT. `TamaSgare mdgomareobaSia~ bevri saintereso politikuri figura. magaliTad, ar vici, sad dadgeba gubaz sanikiZe, Tako Carkviani… murman dumbaZes janmrTelobis problemebi aqvs, amitom, SesaZlebelia, dasveneba gadawyvitos am etapze. ase rom, jer dedaqalaqSi ar aris formirebuli politikuri veli, araTu aWaraSi. arada, kandidatebis wardginebis vada iwureba, 26 seqtembers aris bolo dRe. rogorc iciT, yvelasaTvis moulodneli SedegiT dasrulda orbelianebis sasaxleSi prezidentis miwveviT `gaxaria – saqarTvelosTvis~ da `Zlieri saqarTvelos~ liderebis Sexvedra. samwuxarod, SeTanxmeba ver Sedga, Tumca am or ambiciur politikur Zalas Soris dawyebuli diskusia aCens pozitiur molodinebs, momdevno mowvevis parlamentSi TanamSromlobasTan dakavSirebiT. faqtia, rom xazaraZe da gaxaria uceb ver gadawyveten bevr sakiTxs. ukve imdenad cota dro darCa, ver moaswreben saboloo morigebas, magram Tuki mainc gaerTiandebian, cxadia, mkveTrad Seicvleba saqarTvelos politikur velze ZalTa ganlageba.
– eleqtronul arCevnebze ras ityodiT?
– zogadad, nebismier teqnikas eWvqveS vayeneb. ubanze SesaZlebelia, yvelaferi wesrigSi iyos, magram aravin icis, ra moxdeba.
– ambobT, xmebs eleqtronuli aparaturis meSveobiT gaayalbeben? rogorc cesko acxadebs, aparatura ar ukavSirdeba internets da garedan zemoqmedeba warmoudgenelia. . .
– albaT, asecaa. vfiqrob, gayalbeba mainc garedan moxdeba momzadebuli da mosyiduli adamianebis gamoyenebiT, Tanac yvelgan ar damontaJdeba xmebis daTvlis eleqtronuli teqnika.
– Zalian cota ubani rCeba, Tanac minimaluri amomrCevliT. . .
– ki. es namdvilad asea, im ubnebSi ar aris im raodenobis amomrCeveli, rom gayalbebam didi zegavlena moaxdinos saboloo Sedegebze, magram. . .
– magram, mainc elodebiT gayalbebas?
– rasakvirvelia, imitom rom es xelisufleba Zalian mZimed Tmobs poziciebs, gajiutebulia iseT sakiTxebSi, rac aSkarad ar asxams wyals mis wisqvilze. Tavad gansajeT, Tuki ar erideba arc mosalodnel arCevnebs da arc xalxis negatiur reaqcias, maSin risi imedi aqvs, Tu ara winaswar dagegmili masStaburi gayalbebis? ganaTlebuli, civilizebuli msoflios TiTqmis umetesi nawili gadaimtera, aba vis da ris xarjze apirebs fons gasvlas?. . arada, umZimesi movlenebi ganviTardeba, Tuki marTla gaayalbeben xalxis arCevans. ai, vnaxoT, ramdens gabedaven da ras gabedaven. . .
– maJoritaruli sistemis `warmomadgenlebiT~ Canacvlebaze ras gvetyodiT?
– imis gancxadeba, rom maJoritarebs iTxovs mosaxleoba da amitom Caanacvles e.w. warmomadgenlebiT, iseTi susti argumentia, rom veranair kritikas ver uZlebs. es aris mcdeloba, konkretuli pirovneba iyos pasuxismgebeli konkretul ubanze da am pirovnebis avtoritetis xarjze gaiyvanon partiuli siis danarCeni wevrebi. darwmunebuli var, aq CarTuli eyolebaT `msuye~ pirovnebebi, romlebic calsaxad moisyidian amomrCevlebs an dapirebebiT, an fuliT, an sulac muqariT aiZuleben xmis micemas. . . aqve isic minda vTqva, rom kategoriulad mcdaria parlamentis sportul moednad, filarmoniad Tu fuliani tipebis saTavsod qcevis mcdeloba. kandidatebs rom gadavxede, es swored ase Cans.
– genderis kvotireba moxsnilia dRis wesrigidan, mainc ra datvirTva hqonda Tavis droze?
– diax, aRar aris. adre saarCevno kodeqsi genderul kvotirebas iTvaliswinebda da politikur subieqtebs avaldebulebda, partiul saarCevno siaSi yovel meoTxe kandidatad gansxvavebuli sqesis warmomadgeneli mieTiTebina. maSindeli gancxadebebiT Tu vimsjelebT, es wesi momdevno wlebis arCevnebze qalTa warmomadgenlobis etapobriv zrdas iTvaliswinebda. gavida dro, Tumca lideri qalebi isev ise liderebad darCnen, xolo axlebi ver SeeTvisnen politikas, ver gaqaCes. Zalian cotam SeZlo am sferoSi Tavis damkvidreba. principSi, Tavis droze Cven vbuzRunebdiT, rom qalma Tavad unda daimsaxuros politikaSi mosvla sakuTari avtoritetiT da pirovnuli RirsebebiT, magram isic faqti iyo, rom am mimarTulebiT, susti sqesis warmomadgenlebs cota biZgi sWirdebodaT, rac uzrunvelyo im kanonma. . . amieridan albaT isev sakuTar Zalebze dayrdnobiT aisaxebian qalebi politikur velze. saubris dasasruls, minda giTxraT, rom laRi saqarTvelos xilva msurs, Tumca ver vxedav amis winapirobas. darwmunebuli var, saparlamento arCevnebis Sedegebis gasajaroebis Semdegac gveqneba sirTuleebi. ki, batono, evropasTan mimarTebaSi, opozicia erTi qudis qveS varT gaerTianebuli, magram zogadad – gansxvavebuli poziciebis, biografiebis, cxovrebis wesis, yofiTi faqtebiT dapirispirebuli adamianebis gaerTianeba gvaqvs da ramdenad moxdeba amis SenarCuneba Semdgom, ufro rTul etapze, ucnobia. arc isaa gamoricxuli, rom zogierTma samomavlod pozicia Seicvalos, yvelafers gamarTleba rom upovos. ar vici, ra moxdeba, radgan jer kidev Camouyalibebeli da qaosuria winasaarCevno politikuri viTareba.
