„ახლა კიდევ უფრო ამბიციური გეგმით მოვდივართ!“
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saqarTveloSi saparlamento arCevnebisTvis mzadeba ukve mTeli ZaliT mimdinareobs. opozicia rTuli amocanis winaSea – xelisuflebas unda CamoaSoros `qarTul ocneba~, gundi, romelic 12 welia marTavs qveyanas. paralelurad, es aris periodi, rodesac saqarTvelosTvis moulodnelad gaixsna mniSvnelovani geopolitikuri fanjara evropisken. qveyanas mieca Sansi, Tumca amisTvis evrokavSiris rekomendaciebi (12-punqtiani gegma) aqvs Sesasrulebeli. opozicia, romelic movlenebis avangardSi unda iyos, bolo periodSi sakuTari Sida garCevebiT ufroa dakavebuli. `nacionaluri moZraoba~, mmarTveli gundis Semdeg, meore didi partia iyo qveyanaSi. eqspertebis azriT, miuxedavad krizisisa, didi albaTobiT, is am adgils am arCevnebisTvisac SeinarCunebs. eWvgareSea, rom sxva opoziciur partiebze ukeTes Sedegs miiRebs, magram xelisuflebaSi mosvlisTvis aucilebeli xmebis raodenobis moipoveba gauWirdeba.
am Temaze saubrobs „aWarasTan“ umaRlesi sabWos wevri, „erTianoba – nacionaluri moZraobis“ warmomadgeneli gia abulaZe. gTavazobT masTan intervius.
– es arCevnebi gansxvavebulia, srulad proporciuli sistemiT tardeba, xmis daTvlis eleqtronuli manqanebiT. Tqven ra azris xarT am cvlilebebze?
– yvelaze mTavari aris ara eleqtronika Tu arCevis gansxvavebuli wesi, aramed is, rom rac SeiZleba meti amomrCeveli movides ubnebze da daafiqsiros sakuTari pozicia, radgan sxva gziT veraferi Seicvleba. dRes iseTi mZime mdgomareobaa qveyanaSi, rom qudze kaci unda gamovides, raTa wvlili Seitanos saqarTvelos gadarCenis saqmeSi. Tuki yvela mova, `ocneba~ verc teqnikiT da verc sxva ramiT SeZlebs arCevnebis Sedegebis gayalbebas. minda mivmarTo mosaxleobas, rom gansakuTrebiT aqtiurebi viyoT am arCevnebze.
– arCevnebamde 11 TviT adre daiSala qveynis yvelaze reitinguli opoziciuri partia – `nacionaluri moZraoba~, romlis lideri da damfuZnebeli mixeil saakaSvilia. ramdenad dagrCaT gamarjvebis Sansi?
– mosaxleobis gamokiTxvis SedegebiT, 80%-ze mets surs evropisken svla. aqve agisxniT, ras niSnavs es. SeiZleba SekiTxvas cota gadavuxvio, magram sabolood sworad gavcem pasuxs. gadaxedeT aWaris socialuri subsidiebis saagentos monacemebs da naxavT, rom registrirebulia 147 aTasze meti adamiani, anu yvela saWiroebs socialur daxmarebas. aqvea 24 aTasze meti 16 wlamde asakis bavSvi. axla Tavad gansajeT, 360 aTasi amomrCevelia, TiTqmis naxevari gaWirvebulia. rodesac aseTi statistika gaqvs da aseTi cudi ekonomikuri maCvenebeli, cxadia, yvela amjobinebs evrokavSiris wevri qveynis moqalaqeobas, sadac xelfasebi, pensiebi, daxmarebebi absoluturad sxva kriteriumebiT da sxva raodenobiT gaicema, radgan erT sul mosaxleze saSualo Semosavali maRalia. aba, SediT afTiaqSi, aucileblad SegxvdebaT salarosTan mdgari gaWirvebuli, acremlebuli adamiani, romelsac ar hyofnis wamlis sayideli fuli da cdilobs, daxmareba iTxovos sxva klientebisgan… yvelafers Tu gaviTvaliswinebT, ara mgonia, am xalxisTvis misaRebi aRmoCndes mmarTveli partia, romelic ukve 12 welia dgas marTvis sadaveebTan da verafers miaRwia. programas rodesac warvadgenT, masSi avsaxavT ekonomikis ganviTarebis iseT gegmas, romelic aSkarad daanaxebs xalxs, risi gamkeTebeli varT, miT umetes, rom ukve naxes, ra SegviZlia da rogor swrafad davayeneT fexze gaRatakebuli, absoluturad arafris mqone qveyana. Cveni programis mixedviT, umuSevroba aRmoifxvreba da iseT maRal anazRaurebas miiReben Cveni moqalaqeebi, rom aRar dasWirdebaT sazRvargareT gasvla ojaxebis sarCenad.
– Tqven axla ase ambobT, yvela afrqvevs dapirebebs, Tumca saqme saqmeze rom midgeba, araferi keTdeba.
– aba, axla gadavxedoT, ra gaqvT Cem mier CamoTvlili dapirebebis sapirwoned. . . ivaniSvili, romelic gvpirdeba mxolod da mxolod Zaladobas.
– batono gia, Zaladoba `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ aklda?
– axla ar aris amaze laparaki, Cven vsaubrobT qveynis ekonomikis ayvavebaze. ras gvpirdeboda gasul arCevnebze `qarTuli ocneba~ – soflis meurneobis ayvavebas Tu ufaso purs, sxva uamrav raRacas. ra Seasrula? araferi. axla amasac aRar gvpirdebian, pirdapir acxadeben, Tu ar mogvcemT xmas, Cven viZaladebT Tqvenze. . .
– ukacravad, rogori formiT amboben `viZaladebT~? cota davibeni. . .
– sxva ra aris, Tu ara Zaladoba, rodesac imuqrebian, rom gaauqmeben prodasavlur partiebs, rodesac uteven samoqalaqo sazogadoebas da ar surT qveyanaSi arsebobdes damoukidebeli, prodasavluri arasamTavrobo organizaciebi. . . da am bolo dros yvelafer amas warmatebulad arTmeven Tavs.
– maJoritaruli sistemis Canacvlebaze ras ityviT?
– es aris minioligarqiuli sistema, romlis meSveobiTac xalxs pirdapiri teqstiT eubnebian, rom esa Tu is pirovneba iqneba Tqveni patroni. magaliTad, xuloSi – vaxtang beriZe, xelvaCaurSi – mindia diasamiZe da a.S.
– `qarTuli ocneba~ acxadebs, rom Tavad xalxi iTxovs konkretul pirovnebas, romelic sakanonmdeblo organoSi waradgens maT moTxovnebs. . .
– xalxs sWirdeba normaluri saxelmwifo institutebi, romlebic moemsaxurebian TiToeul maTgans yovelgvari konkretuli piris aRzevebis gareSe da ara – feodaluri wyobis gadmonaSTi.
– Tqven ras sTavazobT amomrCevels?
– Cven vTavazobT, Seiqmnas iseTi sistema, sadac xalxi iqneba mTavari da gadawyvetilebebis miRebaSi gaizrdeba mosaxleobis monawileoba. amis dasturia kanonproeqti, romelic warvadgineT umaRles sabWoSi. iq weria, rom biujetis ganxilva unda moxdes municipalitetebSi da mosaxleobis mier dasmuli kiTxvebi da wamoWrili sakiTxebi Semdgom unda ganixilebodes umaRles sabWoSi, `qarTuli ocneba~ ki apirebs amoefaros konkretul pirovnebebs, maT fuls da avtoritets. albaT mixvdnen, rom maT partias aRar SerCa aranairi reitingi da gamarjvebis mosapoveblad sWirdebaT delegati, romelic mTel saarCevno sias gaitans sakuTari mxrebiT.
– ramdenad SeZlebs daqsaqsuli `nacionaluri moZraoba~, mmarTveli partiisTvis konkurenciis gawevas?
– `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ ar daSlila da arc arsad wasula, es morigi tyuili da xalxis SecdomaSi Seyvanaa. Cveni partia 2012 wlamde warmatebiT ibrZoda evropuli saxelmwifos da damoukidebeli instituciebis CamoyalibebisTvis. ukve vaCveneT xalxs, rogori regionis Seqmna SeiZleba aWaraSi. axlac rom gadaxedoT `qarTuli ocnebis~ banerebs da bilbordebs, darwmundebiT, rom Cven mier aSenebuli da gakeTebuli sawarmoebi, saxlebi Tu ubnebia zed gamosaxuli, anu es ukve gavakeTeT da veravin wagvarTmevs, axla kidev ufro ambiciuri gegmiT movdivarT – warvudgenT mosaxleobas da darwmunebuli var, aucileblad daafaseben da Sefaseben im SesaZleblobebs da perspeqtivebs, rasac vTavazobT qveyanas. yvelam icis, rom moqalaqeebTan komunikacia ar Segviwyvetia, arsad wavsulvarT, arc davSlilvarT da arc vapirebT gaqrobas, razec mmarTveli partia ocnebobs. vagrZelebT brZolas manam, sanam Cveni qveyana ar Seudgeba evropuli civilizaciis relsebs.
– Tqven ramdenjerme axseneT ekonomikuri programa, romelic gaaZlierebs saqarTvelos. Tu SegiZliaT dagvikonkretoT, razea saubari?
– TiToeuli municipalitetis mixedviT gveqneba sainvesticio proeqtebi, iqve gaiwereba, ramdeni samuSao adgili Seiqmneba da ra Tanxebi Seva biujetSi am proeqtebis realizaciis SemTxvevaSi. moqalaqe Tavad dainaxavs, ramxela potenciali aqvs am regions da korufciis Tu saxelmwifoebrivi sibecis gamo verafris gakeTeba ver xerxdeba. Cven Zalian swrafad SegviZlia yvela am proeqtis amuSaveba. xalxma kargad icis, risi gamkeTeblebic varT, rac araerTi wlis ganmavlobaSi davamtkiceT, anu ZalgviZs Zalian mokle droSi SevcvaloT socialuri mdgomareoba da mosaxleobas SevuqmnaT realuri keTildReoba. warmoidgineT, aTiaTasobiT moqalaqe wavida emigraciaSi ojaxis sarCenad, radgan aq ver naxa samuSao. Cven vapirebT am moqalaqeebis samSobloSi dabrunebas, raTa maTTan erTad gavagrZeloT Cveni regionis aRmSenebloba. mosaxleobam kargad icis, rom `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ yovelTvis axdenda axali ideebis generirebas. am etapze sruliad axal midgomas SevTvazebT xalxs da imis miuxedavad, rom aT weliwadze metia, rac opoziciaSi varT, araferi Secvlila CvenSi, piriqiT, kidev ufro gamovibrZmedeT, meti viswavleT rogorc sakuTar Secdomebze, ise sxvis mier Seqmnili problemebis daZlevis procesSi. ase rom, warvudgenT saqarTvelos, rogori qveynis xilva gvsurs da risi gakeTeba SegviZlia sakuTari mosaxleobisTvis.
– aWaraSi ras miiCnevT yvelaze did problemad?
– yvelaze didi problemaa siRaribe, umuSevroba, astronomiuli fasebi, dabali xelfasebi da pensiebi, katastrofulad mzardi emigracia, baTumis qaosuri ganaSenianeba, sadac korufciis gamo qvis junglebad iqca ulamazesi qalaqi. araferi gansakuTrebuli ar Seiqmna arc erT Cvens municipalitetSi. vgulisxmob iseT obieqtebs, sadac xalxi dasaqmdeba. aTi welia gvpirdebian, rom xulo-goderZis uReltexilis 40-kilometriani gza gakeTdeba. rogorc iqna, moabes Tavi, Tumca bolomde isic ar dasrulebula. arada, Tavisuflad SeiZleboda am gzis 2014-15 wlebSi gakeTeba. Sedegad, ukve ara ramdenime, aramed sastumroebis didi qseli gveqneboda goderZis uReltexilze.
– Sidasasoflo gzebi marTlac gakeTda. . .
– Tqven gakeTebuls ras eZaxiT? nebismieri maT mier gakeTebuli gza rom gazomoT saxazaviT da SeadaroT tenderis moTxovnebs, Tu ramdeni santimetri unda yofiliyo asfaltis sisqe, aRmoaCenT, rom ganaxevrebuli Tu ara, 30-40% moparulia. Tan iqve SeamCnevT, rom es axalmoasfaltebuli gza ukve iSleba da ifSvneba. Cvenc gvinda, rom gakeTdes gzebi da moewyos infrastruqtura, magram – xarisxianad. aviRoT xulo-qedlebis gza, romelic Cvens dros gakeTda da SevadaroT amaT mier 2-3 wlis win gayvanil gzas. naxavT, ramxela gansxvavebaa xarisxSi da mixvdebiT, rasac vlaparakob. Cveni, prodasavluri partiebis da gansakuTrebiT `erTianoba – nacionaluri moZraobis~ mTavari amocanaa, erTianad daviZraT da viaroT evropisken, raTa saqarTvelos keTildReoba gaizardos.