ზაალ მიქელაძე: იმაზე მეტ ბიულეტენში გაფერადდება 41, ვიდრე წარმოუდგენიათ! . .
irma cecxlaZe –
aWaris jandacvis sferoSi ganxorcielebul cvlilebebze, winasaarCevno situaciasa da qveynis momavalze saubrobs `aWarasTan~ me-10 mowvevis parlamentis wevri, partia `qarTuli ocneba – demokratiuli saqarTvelos~ saarCevno siis 54-e nomeri zaal miqelaZe.
– ras gvetyodiT winasaarCevnod?
– Zalian mokle winasaarCevno periodi gvqonda, aWaraSi mxolod baTumis ramdenime lokaciaze viyavi da Cems qobuleTelebTan movaxerxe Sexvedra, avtonomiuri respublikis sxva municipalitetebSi ver movaswari Casvla. fizikurad ver SevZeli, radgan amJamad aRar var mxolod erTi municipalitetis maJoritari deputati, ukve partiuli siiT warmovadgen `qarTul ocnebas~ da xma unda mivawvdino mTeli qveynis amomrCevlebs. wlebis ganmavlobaSi, dawyebuli rigiTi eqimobidan, Cemi qveynis sasikeTod vmoRvaweobdi, jer – erT-erTi sadazRvevo kompaniis, Semdeg sayovelTao dazRvevis xelmZRvanelad, aWaris jandacvis ministrad, parlamentarad. . . am periodebSi uamrav adamianTan mqonda urTierToba. minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da madloba gadavuxado am xalxs, radgan swored maTi TanadgomiT SevZeliT Cveni moqalaqeebis janmrTelobisa da sicocxlisTvis aucilebeli Zalian bevri proeqtis ganxorcieleba.
– mainc ra gakeTda am xnis ganmavlobaSi jandacvaSi?
– Zalian bevri ram. daviwyoT iqidan, me rom mivedi am struqturaSi, eqvsi milioni iyo aWaris jandacvis biujeti, Tan saerTod ar arsebobda sayovelTao dazRvevis sistema. am eqvsi milioniT ramdens gawvdebodi? dRes, rodesac yvela ZiriTadi tvirTi saxelmwifom aiRo Tavis Tavze sayovelTao dazRveviT Tu sxva saxelmwifo programebiT, aWaris biujets 70 milion larze meti aqvs gaTvlili jandacvaze. marto es miRwevebic ki migviTiTebs, Tu ra gadawyvetileba unda miviRoT arCevnebze da ratom unda mivceT xma amJamindel mmarTvel partias.
– batono zaal, amerikam kari mogvixura, evropa vizebis gauqmebas gegmavs, ras fiqrobT dasavleTis protestze saqarTvelosTan mimarTebiT, ram gamoiwvia partniorebis aseTi ganawyeneba?
– dasavleTis protesti erTi konkretuli jgufis mier SekveTili gaugebrobaa. aq saubaria gabrazebul, calkeul evroparlamentarebze da zogierTi qveynis liderze. isini ganawyendnen imitom, rom saakaSvili maT mier SekveTili proeqtia da ar moswonT misi Cavardna. ra vqnaT, Cveni brali ar aris, Tavidanve sworad unda gaekeTebinaT aqcentebi. ar SeiZleba, demokratiad SeasaRo adamianebs is marazmi, rac qveyanaSi xdeboda. amitom gadavdgiT konkretuli nabiji. . .
– gulisxmobT kanonproeqtebis paketis miRebas, romelic lgbt propagandis SezRudvas iTvaliswinebs?
– diax, ukve kiTxvis niSnebi gauCnda bevrs evropasTan dakavSirebiT. arada, ar aris evropa aseTi, iq marTlac fasobs ojaxuri Rirebulebebi. Cven gvaxsovs evropuli qveynebis liderebi im sabWoTa periodSic ki, rodesac yvelaferi akrZaluli iyo, Cumad vusmendiT, vkiTxulobdiT am bumberazi adamianebis Sesaxeb informaciebs, maT gamonaTqvamebs. dRes fsevdoliberaluri kanonebi wamoswies win, amas efarebian da igive evropasa da evropelebSi asaReben. me, rogorc pediatri, ver davuSveb gonebaSi, rom Tuki bavSvi raRac TamaSs Seasrulebs, biWi – gogosas, xolo gogo – biWisas, mivceT ufleba mSoblebs, Tavs moaxvion pataras sxva sqesi an 12 wlis bavSvma Tavad gadawyvitos, gogo unda gaxdes Tu biWi, es uzneobaa. anatomia yvelas uswavlia da iqsis da igrekis garda, bunebaSi ar arsebobs sxva sqesi. yvelaferi es keTdeba adamianebis gonebis asarevad da dasamorCileblad. Cven gonieri eri varT da imedi maqvs, taSs ar davukravT am marazms, Tundac am aplodismentebiT evropaSi amovyoT Tavi. Cven mivdivarT im evropisken, sadac pativs scemen erTmaneTis keTilganwyobas, tradiciebs, partniorobas da jansaR sazogadoebas. Cven xom Tavidanve vicodiT, rom im sqemaSi ver CavjdebodiT, romelsac Tavs gvaxvevdnen. rasac iTxoven, imis Sedegi TvalnaTliv davinaxeT ukrainaSi. . .
verc sxvebs da verc sakuTar Tavs mivcemT uflebas, igive cecxlSi gavxvioT saqarTvelo, rogorSic ukraina gaxvies. aqve minda xazgasmiT aRvniSno: rodesac ukrainas vaxseneb, tkivils ganvicdi. es qveyana CemTvis ar asocirdeba arc prezidentTan, arc premierTan an konkretul ministrebTan. im milionamde daRupul ukrainel vaJkacs Soris arc erTi ar aris maRalCinosnis Svili, im aT milion ltolvils Soris arian, magram maT sazRvargareT elodebaT Zvirfasi vilebi da komfortuli cxovreba. isini ar rCebian quCebSi Ramis gasaTevad da ar uwevT Sav muSaxelad yofna ojaxebis gamosakvebad.
– xSirad saubroben saqarTvelos omSi CarTvaze . . .
– 2008 wels ukve gaviareT omis 5 dRe da kargad viciT, ra xdeboda, riTi dasrulda yvelaferi. maSin aranairi valdebuleba ar mqonia, magram visac ainteresebs, SeuZlia moikiTxos da gaigos, rom im aTi daRupuli qobuleTeli gmiris ojaxebi ar mimitovebia, mxarSi vedeqi, kardakar davdiodi yvela gamowvevis dros, raTa Sememsubuqebina cxovreba. rodesac xelisuflebaSi movediT, yvela programaSi CavsviT es xalxi SeRavaTebis gasawevad. SesaZloa, bevri araferi iyos, magram saakaSvilis dros larsac ar aZlevdnen am ojaxebs. Cven daviwyeT sami aTasiT da axla aTi aTas lars aZleven erTjeradad, xolo dedebs da meuRleebs – sam–sami aTas lars. RmerTiT, metis micema SevZloT, magram am etapze ver xerxdeba. me erT-erT sadazRvevo kompanias vemsaxurebodi saakaSvilis mmarTvelobis dros da yvela umweo Cem Tvalwin gadioda. qobuleTis patara raionSi 32 aTasi ojaxi imyofeboda siRaribis zRvars miRma. dRes es ricxvi minimumamdea dayvanili. ra Tqma unda, Cveni survilia, sulac gavanuloT, magram merwmuneT, Sedareba ar aris maSindel da amJamindel situaciasTan. aTi lari ver gaimetes erTi bavSvisTvis da Cven axla 200 lars vaZlevT. sam da oTxbavSvian ojaxebs es daxmareba hyofniT produqtis da elementaruli saWiroebis dasakmayofilebad. aRar vilaparakeb jandacvis im programebze, romelsac xelisuflebis saTaveSi mosvlisTanave zedized vaxorcielebdiT. gazeT `aWaras~ yvelaze ukeT gaxsovT, rodesac saministros saxsrebi mivmarTeT onkopacientebisken, radgan marTlac autanel mdgomareobaSi vardebodnen pacientebic da maTi ojaxebic. albaT, arc is dagviwyebiaT, rodesac opoziciidan telegadacemis meSveobiT Segvexmianen da xvrelSi gadayril fulad mogvinaTles es Tanxebi. Aaba, hkiTxeT onkologiuri avadmyofebis ojaxebs, ra iyo maTTvis es daxmareba. SesaZlebelia, erT dReSi nebismieri sicocxle dasruldes letalurad, magram Cven mainc unda gavakeToT is, rac gvmarTebs da bolomde vebrZoloT am saSineli senis gamowvevebs, miT umetes, rom ukve Zalian bevris gadarCena, bevrisTvis ki sicocxlis gaxangrZlivebaa SesaZlebeli.
– Tu SeiZleba, zogadad, CamovTvaloT, ra gakeTda am mimarTulebiT aWaraSi? rogorc viciT, aq ufro mets afinanseben, vidre danarCen saqarTveloSi.
– mTeli tvirTi mainc saxelmwifom aiRo, Cveni avtonomiuri respublika, ubralod, SevexideT pacientebs TanagadaxdaSi, radgan esec uWirdaT da xSirad ver mihyavdaT mkurnaloba bolomde. onkologia farTo sferoa. operaciebi, qimio da sxivuri Terapia saxelmwifom aiRo Tavis Tavze, magram darCa mTeli rigi mimarTulebebi medikamentebis, sakmaod Zvirad Rirebuli Tanamedrove targentuli mkurnalobis, romelTa dafinansebas aWaris biujeti axorcielebs. finansdeba nebismieri Zvirad Rirebuli operacia. marto RviZlis transplantacia 130 aTasi lari jdeba, Zvlis tvinis transplantacia 170 aTasidan 230 aTasamde lari Rirs rogorc qveynis SigniT, ise qveynis gareT da yvela moqalaqes vufinansebT, warmogidgeniaT? amaze fiqrsac vin bedavda. verc – gvari, verc sofeli ver SeZlebda amdeni fulis Sekrebas, rom ganwiruli adamiani gadaerCina, Cven ki es yvelaferi SevZeliT. garda amisa, manamde umweoba ganisazRvreboda 57 aTasi quliT, romelic avwieT 70 aTasamde, axla ki 120 aTasi qulis mqone yvela moqalaqes saxelmwifo uxdis bavSvze 200 lars, xolo aWaraSi 120-dan 150 aTasamde qulis mqone ojaxebsac uxdian.
– mosaxleobaSi romeli programa ufro popularulia?
– sxvaTa Soris, Sexvedrebze xSirad gvixdian madlobas skolebSi moswavleTa transportirebis programis gamo. marTalia, aqac Semogvedava opozicia da absurdulad CagviTvala es gadawyvetileba, magram mosaxleoba ar eTanxmeba, radgan es sakiTxi moswavleebis usafrTxo gadaadgilebas exeba aWaris maRalmTianeTSi. yvela programa konkretul moTxovnebs akmayofilebs da xalxs emsaxureba. qobuleTis municipalitetSi mxolod 5 sabavSvo baRi iyo, axla ki 50-mdea. uamravi ram mowesrigda, aRarafers vambob dagebul gzebze, gazificirebaze, romelmac soflebs suli moaTqmevina. . . daiwyo wylis miwodebis problemis erTianad mogvarebis uzarmazari proeqti. masSi mTeli aWaraa CarTuli da wlebis Semdeg yvela sofels da dabas eqneba wylis miwodebis 24-saaTiani uwyveti sistema. yvela sferoSi, yvela dargSi uamravi ram keTdeba, amis ardanaxva SeuZlebelia da sapirwoned veranairad ver dagviyeneben wina xelisuflebas, radgan isini ras akeTebdnen, Cvenze kargad aravin uwyis.
– qobuleTis delegatebad wardgenil kandidatebze ras gvetyodiT?
– saqarTvelos parlamentSi kenWs iyris gia Wyonia, romelic bevri sasikeTo proeqtis iniciatori da ganmaxorcielebeli iyo da dRemde ar icis, ris gamo gaxda probacioneri im xelisuflebis dros. albaT – mxolod keTili saqmeebis keTebis gamo. aWaris umaRles sabWoSi kenWs iyris cotne ananiZe, romelic simarTlis Tqmis gamo universitetis merxidan pirdapir jurRmulSi aRmoCnda. eqvs kvadratul metrSi 30 adamiani erTad ijda, ufro sworad, idga da mxolod or-ori saaTi, rigrigobiT iZinebda. ra SeiZleba amas ewodos, Tu ara wina xelisuflebis sadisturi qmedeba. orive delegati kargad icnobs wina reJims da icis, Tu ra moxdeba maTi mmarTvelobis aRdgenis SemTxvevaSi. giorgic da cotnec yvelafers gaakeTeben qobuleTisTvis da saqarTvelosTvis. es yvelaferi imitom gavixsene, rom amomrCevlebma unda icodnen, ra safrTxis winaSe aRmoCndeba Cveni qveyana maTi araswori arCevanis SemTxvevaSi. Zalian vTxov yvelas, gaiazron, gaixsenon, gaaanalizon da ise miiRon saboloo gadawyvetileba. igive ubedurebaSi qveyanam Tavi meorejer ar unda amohyos. Cven mivesalmebiT yvela konstruqciul opozicias, magram ukve kars mogvadga arCevnebi da jer arc erTs ar warmoudgenia arc grZelvadiani da arc moklevadiani realuri programa.
– ratom, xazaraZe xom dagvpirda 1000–larian pensiebs da 200 aTas samuSao adgils?
– xazaraZes da mis momxreebs namdvilad ver aRviqvam adekvaturad. rogor ar rcxvenia sityviT gamosvla im xalxis winaSe, romelic Tavad daakabala?! aWaras da qobuleTs dRemde mohyveba ipoTekarebis problema. ojaxebidan gamoyrili adamianebi axlac Civian sasamarTloebSi. xazaraZis gamosvla lozungiT – am qveyanaSi mevaxSeoba davasruloTo, dacinvaa im xalxis, dRemde rom ver gaimarTa welSi misi procentebis da mevaxSeobis gamo. Cvenda saubedurod, opoziciis mxares ar dagvrCa jgufi, romelic raime axal SemoTavazebas, xedvas warmoadgens.
– momavalSi rogor xedavT saqarTvelos damokidebulebas dasavleTTan?
– darwmunebuli var, aSS-Si male dasruldeba arCevnebi, omic dasruldeba ukrainaSi da Zalian bevri ram Seicvleba msoflioSi. dasavleTSi SercxvebaT im narativis, romelsac axla avrceleben, – pirdapiri SantaJiT da muqariT erevian arCevnebSi, cdiloben, Secvalon Cveni moqalaqeebis arCevani, magram me mjera Cveni eris gonierebis da vici, imaze met biuletenSi gaferaddeba 41, vidre saqarTvelos gareSe Tu Sinaur mtrebs warmoudgeniaT.
