„ჩვენ ამ ქვეყანაში უნდა შევქმნათ სამართლიანი თამაშის წესები“…
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTvelo Tavisi ganviTarebis axal fazaSi Sedis – arCevnebma, romelic oqtomberSi gaimarTa, axali gamowvevebis winaSe daayena mTeli politikuri speqtri, sazogadoeba. urTierTdapirispirebisa da polarizaciis procesi araerTgvarovan kiTxvebs badebs, krizisuli situacia ganmuxtvas iTxovs. mTavaria sazogadoebis dakveTa – samarTlianoba da demokratia. rogor Seudgebian saqarTvelos politikuri partiebi am gzas? rogor afaseben isini politikur procesebs da raSi xedaven ganviTarebis perspeqtivas? am kiTxvebze dRes `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ aWaris organizaciis erTi-erTi lideri vaJa darCia gvipasuxebs.
– vidre uSualod arCevnebze visaubrebdeT, manamde qveyanaSi ganviTarebul movlenebTan dakavSirebiT ras gvetyviT?
– mitacebuli arCevnebis Semdeg qveyana Zalian mZime situaciaSi aRmoCnda, praqtikulad, `qarTulma ocnebam~ saqarTvelo izolaciis gzaze daayena. samwuxarod, amis molodini arsebobda, qveyanaSi politikuri krizisia. politikuri speqtri yvelafers gaakeTebs, rom es krizisi rac SeiZleba male dasruldes da gavagrZeloT svla evrokavSirisken. samwuxarod, am xelisuflebis pirobebSi es SeuZlebelia, amitom Cveni moTxovnaa axali, samarTliani arCevnebi, romliTac SevZlebT samarTlian garemoSi cxovrebas.
– ra cxadyo am arCevnebma?
– arCevnebma cxadyo, rom xelisufleba akeTebs yvelafers Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad, misTvis arc aranairi prioriteti arsebobs, arc demokratiuli garemo, arc evroatlantikuri sivrce, misi mizania, ruseTs daumtkicos erTguleba da Zalaufleba nebismieri xerxiT SeinarCunos. gasajarovda faqtebi, maT Soris sasamarTlo sistemaSi, sadac mosamarTleebi aRniSnaven, rom es iyo realurad farulobis principis darRveviT Catarebuli arCevnebi. Sesabamisad, erTaderTi, rac cxadyo am arCevnebma, aris is, rom xelisufleba yvelafers gaakeTebs Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad.
– mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom arCevnebi demokratiulad Catarda da opoziciis mizania qveynis destabilizacia…
– dRes ar arsebobs arcerTi demokratiuli qveyana, romelic mmarTvel gunds arCevnebSi gamarjvebas ulocavs. `qarTul ocnebas~ gamarjvebas ulocaven saxelmwifoebi, romlebic ar aRiareben saqarTvelos suverenitets, es metyvelebs erT rameze – arCevnebidan 14 dRis Semdeg mmarTvelma partiam sazogadoebas verc Sin da verc sagareo doneze ver daumtkica, rom es arCevnebi Caatara Tavisufal garemoSi, xolo opozicia, samoqalaqo seqtori, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba yoveldRiurad aCvenebs saerTaSoriso sazogadoebas, rom iyo darRvevebi da Zalauflebis mitacebis mcdeloba.
– amaswinaT opoziciis warmomadgenlebi Sexvdnen saqarTvelos prezidents samoqmedo strategiasTan dakavSirebiT. gviambeT amis Sesaxeb.
– CvenTvis mTavaria, maqsimaluri diskomforti SevuqmnaT `qarTul ocnebas~. prezidentTan Zalian mWidro komunikacia gvaqvs. igi qarTveli xalxis gverdiTaa winaaRmdegobis gawevis berketebiT, rac mas gaaCnia, anu Semajamebel oqms da parlamentis uflebamosilebas ar cnobs. aseve, mTavaria ubnebze darRvevebis yoveldRiurad gamomJRavneba, davwereT aTasamde saCivari (igi yvela olqSi daiwera) da amis saaSkaraoze gamotana aris Cveni mTavari amocana am mimarTebiT, anu sazogadoebas kidev erTxel unda vaCvenoT gayalbebis meqanizmi.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi acxadeben, rom opoziciis warmomadgenlebma olqebSi Semajamebel oqmebs xeli moaweres…
– aq saubari ar aris mTvlelze, aq saubaria, sxva rameze – eWvi gvaqvs, rom siebSi iyo problema da amas Cveni warmomadgenlebi adgilze fizikurad ver gaakontrolebdnen. aseve, mTavar problemad migvaCnia isic, rom adamianebi markirebis gareSe Sediodnen ubnebze. mokled, sxvadasxva saxis darRvevebi xdeboda am arCevnebze, risi identificireba damkvirvebels Tu komisiis wevrs ar SeeZlo. garda amisa, mmarTvelma partiam yvelaferi gaakeTa, rom komisiis wevrebs TavianTi movaleobebi ver SeesrulebinaT, kerZod, gaaZeves Cveni warmomadgenlebi saarCevno ubnebidan – ise iyo erTmaneTs mibjenili magidebi, rom kontroli ver ganexorcielebinaT. argumentad ar gamodgeba, rom opoziciis warmomadgenlebma xeli moaweres am oqmebs, xeli imitom movawereT, rom balansi dajda, sxva axsna amas ar aqvs.
– oTxma opoziciurma platformam uari ganacxada parlamentSi Sesvlaze. ramdenad erTiania opozicia am mxriv?
– me mgoni, aseTi erTiani opozicia arasdros yofila. dRes ar arsebobs kiTxvis niSani imasTan dakavSirebiT, vinme Seva Tu ara parlamentSi, miuxedavad imisa, rom opoziciuri speqtr gansxvavebuli subieqtebisgan Sedgeba. axla mTavaria, mmarTvel partias maqsimaluri diskomforti SevuqmnaT, saerTaSoriso partniorebs vaCvenoT, rom `qarTulma ocnebam~ arCevnebi miitaca da amis Semdeg vilaparakoT sxva partiebis politikur identobaze, amas axla erTi identoba aqvs – qveynisTvis brZola, misi gadarCena da evropul gzaze dayeneba, dasavleTi aris TiToeuli am opoziciuri koaliciis identoba.
– eqspertTa garkveul nawils eWvi epareba opoziciuri partiebis erTianobaSi parlamentSi arSesvlasTan dakavSirebiT. Tu am oTxi opoziciuri platformidan romelime parlamentSi Sevida, ras izams `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~?
– Cven vTqviT, rom parlamentSi ar SevdivarT da am parlaments legitimacias ver mivaniWebT. samomavlod ra iqneba, axla amaze saubari Cveni mxridan ar iqneba marTebuli. am etapze aris es mocemuloba, sxva partiebis nabijebze pasuxismgeblobas ver aviRebT. Cven vambobT, rom ar vapirebT gavuTeTroT mmarTvel partias Savi wesebiT Catarebuli arCevnebi.
– eqspertebi amboben, rom Tu evropa da aSS ar aRiareben saqarTvelos arCevnebis legitimurobas, saqarTvelo izolaciaSi aRmoCndeba…
– samwuxarod, rusuli kanonis miRebis Semdeg saqarTvelo izolaciaSi ukve moeqca sxvadasxva formiT, esaa daxmarebebis paketebis SeCereba Tu sxva… saubaria imazec, rom SeiZleba SeCerdes vizaliberalizacia rac erT-erTi mTavari xazia Cveni qveynis ganviTarebisTvis, dasayrdenia misi ekonomikisTvis… ra Tqma unda, dasavleTisgan arCevnebis legitimurobis araRiareba gavlenas moaxdens, mmarTvel Zalas, marTlac, mouwevs izolaciaSi yofna, rac saqarTvelosTvis savalalo iqneba. imeds vitoveb, rom mmarTveli partia ver darCeba xelisuflebaSi im formiT, rogorc mas unda.
– rogorc vxedavT, saqarTvelos prezidenti mkveTrad daupirispirda xelisuflebas, Tavis mxriv mmarTveli partia mas antisaxelmwifoebriv qmedebaSi adanaSaulebs. ras fiqrobT?
– mmarTveli partia aSkarad antidasavlur gzas daadga. rogorc iciT, adre aqebda saqarTvelos yofil prezidentsac da amJamindelsac (margvelaSvili, zurabiSvili), axla aginebs. es arcaa gasakviri, axla isini trampsac gulSematkivroben. esec simboluria… am etapze saqarTvelos prezidenti erTaderTi institutia qveyanaSi, romelic sworad muSaobs, amitom Zalian mniSvnelovania, prezidentma gaagrZelos es xazi miuxedavad imisa, Tu ras fiqrobs mmarTveli partia. `qarTuli ocneba~ yvela instituts itacebs, maT Soris sasamarTlosac, sadac saapelacio saqmeebi gvritiSvilsa da murusiZes mihyavT, eseni `nacmoZraobis~ reJimis saxeebi iyvnen da am xalxis gadawyvetilebiT cdilobs mmarTveli gundi `gaapravos~ es arCevnebi.
– `nacmoZraoba~ axseneT, mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom unda aikrZalos es partia da masTan afilirebuli partiebic…
– aranairi sakonstitucio umravlesoba ar sWirdeba mmarTvel gunds, rom akrZalos `nacmoZraoba~, akrZalos sxva partiebi. am qveyanaSi rvaasi aTasma adamianma opozicias dauWira mxari. daiWiros es xalxi da uTxras, – Tqven imitom ar unda iarseboT, rom `nacmoZraobis~ da sxva opoziciuri partiebis mxardaWerebi xarT. amis survili aqvT, magram samarTlebrivad SeuZlebelia. diqtaturaSi ki cdilobs `qarTuli ocneba~ gadasvlas, magram am qveyanaSi amas ver gaakeTebs.
– oTxma opoziciurma platformam ganacxada, rom SeimuSava gegma arCevnebis xelaxla Catarebis Sesaxeb. rogoria es gegma?
– Cven mxolod samarTlebrivi gziT vapirebT wasvlas, es ar gulisxmobs parlamentSi Sesvlas, Tumca yoveldRiuri diskomforti eqneba mmarTvel partias. vxedavT, ra procesebi mimdinareobs qveyanaSi, sxvadasxva lokaciaze aqciebia CaniSnuli, raSic politikuri liderebi arian CarTuli. mTavari isaa, rom vagrZelebT dokumentebze muSaobas arCevnebis gayalbebis dasadastureblad, paralelurad vmuSaobT dasavlel partniorebTanac.
– mmarTveli gundi ambobs, rom opozicia dainteresebulia, saqarTvelosTvis vizalibralizaciis SeCerebaSi…
– warmoudgenelia, rom opozicia vizaliberalizaciis gauqmebiT iyos dainteresebuli. opoziciaSi myof adamianebs didi wvlili aqvT Setanili am procesSi, maT Soris Cvens gundSic. es aris saerTo monapovari, amaze dgas Cveni ekonomika. emigrantebis xarjzea am qveynis ekonomika. am procesis CaxSoba `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxridan iqneba danaSauli TavianTi momxreebis winaSec. Cven ar viqnebiT amis momxre imitom, rom es iqneba Zalian cudi da rTulad gamosasworebeli procesi.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT, donald trampis prezidentad arCeviT ra icvleba msoflioSi?
– udavoa, rom donald trampis arCeviT msoflio politikaSi axali era iwyeba. sxvaTa Soris, swored `respublikuri partiis~ iniciativiT Seiqmna `megobari aqti~, romelic saqarTvelos exeboda, Sesabamisad, saqarTvelosTvis icvleba is, rom am procesSi CarTuli adamianebi, vinc icis, ra xdeba Cvens qveyanaSi, movidnen amerikis xelisuflebaSi. donald trampma kargad icis, ra xdeba saqarTveloSi, Sesabamisad, tyuilad hgonia `qarTul ocnebas~, rom TeTri saxlis administracia `gaapravebs~ gayalbebul arCevnebs, es ase ar iqneba. amerikis SeerTebul StatebSi movida axali xelisufleba, romelmac icis, ra xdeba globalur politikaSi, icis, rogori saWiro partnioria saqarTvelo da aSS ar apirebs, dauTmos saqarTvelo ruseTs. `respublikelebi~ amas yoveldRiurad acxadeben. rac Seexeba saerTaSoriso mimarTulebas, ra Tqma unda, `demokratebTan~ SedarebiT trampi gamoirCeva izolacionisturi politikiT, misi gancxadebebi emigrantebTan dakavSirebiT ar aris misaRebi demokratiuli sazogadoebisTvis, Tumca aSS imdenad instituciuri saxelmwifoa, rom amgvari gancxadebebis xorcSesxmis saSualeba tramps ar eqneba, anu mxolod prezidentis gadawyvetilebaze ar aris damokidebuli mniSvnelovani sakiTxebis gadawyveta.
– dabolos, ras elodebiT am erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi politikuri speqtrisgan saSinao da sagareo politikaSi?
– Cven am qveyanaSi unda SevqmnaT samarTliani TamaSis wesebi, aseve, unda Catardes axali arCevnebi, romelic ar unda gaimarTos mmarTveli partiis mier dakompleqtebuli ceskos organizebiT, samarTlianma ceskom unda Caataros es arCevnebi. es Cveni moTxovna am erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi aris gasakeTebeli. garda amisa, erT weliwadSi TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebic modis, romelic Zalian mniSvnelovania. Cven vnaxeT, rom TiTqmis yvela did qalaqSi mmarTvelma partiam waago, TbilisSi – gansakuTrebiT. Sesabamisad, am muxts sWirdeba gaZliereba, am mimarTebiT unda vimuSaoT. imedia, male gaimarTeba axali saparlamento arCevnebi da Seicvleba xelisufleba. rac Seexeba sagareo politikas, imedia, sakmaod mkveTri iqneba aSS-is pozicia ruseTis mimarT. mTavari sakiTxi axla aris ruseT-ukrainis omi, am mxriv yovelTvis swori pozicia hqonda aSS-is Zvel administracias da vimedovneb, rom am xazs SeinarCunebs trampis administracia. umniSvnelovanesia, rom uaxloes vadebSi omi Sewydes da gaimarjvos ukrainam. ra Tqma unda, am omSi gamarjvebis Semoqmedi unda iyos dasavluri civilizebuli samyaro da ara boroteba ruseTis saxiT.
