კარგი ქვეყანა უდრის კარგ სამართალს
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTveloSi mimdinare procesebi mniSvnelovnad ganpirobebulia rogorc saSinao, ise sagareo faqtorebiT. axal msoflio wesrigSi ra elis Cvens qveyanas, rogori iqneba misi xvalindeli dRe – es is kiTxvaa, romelic iTxovs pasuxs, amisTvis, upirvelesad, jerovani moqmedebaa saWiro anu qveynis samarTliani mowyoba, demokratiis ganviTareba da reformebis farTo speqtris amoqmedeba, aseve, evropuli ganviTarebis modelis danergva. aseT mosazrebas gamoTqvamen analitikosebi. swored amis Taobaze gvesaubreba partia `axalis~ aWaris organizaciis xelmZRvaneli mirdat qamadaZe.
– saqarTvelos Sida politikaze visaubroT, ra TaviseburebebiT xasiaTdeba bolodroindeli movlenebi?
– saqarTvelos damoukideblobis istoriaSi pirvelad miviReT is mocemuloba, rom am qveynis arCevnebs aravin aRiarebs. xelisuflebam Cveni TanamSromloba dasavleTTan (26 oqtombris Semdeg) wyalSi Cayara, es yvelaze sagangaSo ambavia. imis nacvlad, rom xelisuflebas politikuri krizisis ganmuxtva ecada, piriqiT – ufro krizisSi Seiyvana qveyana. gayalbebuli arCevnebis Semdeg mmarTvelma gundma ganacxada, rom wyvetda urTierTobas dasavleTTan. isini yvelaferSi dasavleTs adanaSauleben, axla
`dif sTeiTze~ saubroben, manamde – globalur omis partiaze. unda iTqvas, rom araviTari `dif sTeiTi~ ar arsebobs, es aris Cveulebrivi propaganda. mmarTveli partia cdilobs, propagandistuli saSualebebiT, cru informaciebiT adamianebs ararealuri daajeros. samwuxarod, raRac nawilze es moqmedebs, magram, saboloo jamSi, Sedegs ver gamoiRebs. 54-dRiani protesti amas aCvenebs. procesi unda mivides bolomde, anu unda miviRoT qveyanaSi axali, Tavisufali arCevnebi da yvela politpatimari ganTavisufldes. Cven, aseve, vnaxeT, rom xelisuflebam rusTavelze daarbia momitingeebi, scema axalgazrdebi. am mxriv warsulSi sxvadasxva xelisuflebasac axasiaTebda Secdomebi, danaSaulebebi, magram ase demonstraciulad, saCveneblad ecemos axalgazrdebi, aravis ukadria. mokled, saxeze gvaqvs politikuri krizisi, nebismier qveyanaSi politikuri krizisi ganimuxteba arCevnebiT, Sesabamisad, am kriziss ganmuxtavs Tavisufali arCevnebi.
– sxvaTa Soris, gamoZiebis Sedegad, prokuraturam arCevnebTan dakavSirebiT Sualeduri daskvna dado, rom arCevnebi ar gayalbebula…
– prokuraturisgan sxvas arafers unda velodoT imitom, rom obieqturi prokuratura, policia, sasamarTlo am qveyanas ar hyavs. es aris sistema, romelic, Tavidan bolomde, erTi adamianis xelSia, is iRebs yvela gadawyvetilebas, danarCeni yvelaferi butaforiaa. aravis epareba eWvi, rom biZina ivaniSvili rasac isurvebs, nebismieri uwyeba im gadawyvetilebas miiRebs, miuxedavad imisa, ra weria kanonSi. . . gverds ver avuvli mzia amaRlobelis dakavebas, is wlebis ganmavlobaSi abaSiZis, saakaSvilis xelisuflebas akritikebda, aris avtoritetuli Jurnalisti, am xelisuflebasac akritikebs. xelisuflebam gabeda da igi cixeSi gauSva iseTi qmedebisTvis, romelic ar SeiZleba Sefasdes danaSaulad.
– mmarTveli gundis wevrebi amboben, rom mzia amaRlobelma policielze xeli aRmarTa, ras fiqrobT?
– mmarTveli partia bevr rames ambobs, saerTod, policielze Tavdasxma sxva rameSi gamoixateba. Tavdasxma gulisxmobs imas, rom policiels ar aqvs unari, am Tavdasxmis Sedegad Tavisi saqmianoba ganaxorcielos. es iyo daZabuli SekamaTeba, rasac mohyva xeliT Sexeba, es imdenad umniSvnelo qmedeba iyo, rom formalur xasiaTs atarebda. policiels ar aqvs araviTari dazianeba, saqmis ganxorcielebaSi xeli ar SeSlia da a. S. ar SeiZleba, es danaSaulad CaiTvalos, amas Cveni kanonmdeblobac ambobs. me iuristi var profesiiT, pirdapir vambob, mzia amaRlobeli udanaSauloa. SeiZleba administraciuli wesiT wasuliyo es saqme, magram muxli imitom wauyenes, rom winaswar patmrobas ver miusjidnen.
– vxedavT, rom qveyanaSi mitingebi ar wydeba, procesebis rogor ganviTarebas elodebiT?
– prognozireba rTulia, magram Tu gaviTvaliswinebT Cveni sazogadoebis xasiaTs, mentalitets, SeiZleba vTqvaT, rom qarTuli sazogadoeba ar aris is sazogadoeba, romelsac TavSi SeiZleba wamoartya, Cveni istoria amas gvaCvenebs. . . am procesis logikuri dasasruli iqneba axali arCevnebi.
– mmarTvelma gundma wina xelisuflebis danaSaulebis gamoZieba daaanonsa, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– es sakenkia sazogadoebisTvis imitom, rom mmarTvel Zalas am qveyanaSi ar aqvs idea, programa, dapireba, romelic Seasrula. wina xelisuflebis mimarT politikurad motivirebuli ganaCenebia gamotanili. . . xelisufleba cdilobs, saprotesto muxti daacxros, magram rogorc ukve vTqvi, Cven ar varT is sazogadoeba, romelsac TavSi wamoartyamen da amas aitans.
– Tqven opozicia axseneT, dResdReobiT ra stadiaSia opoziciuri speqtri?
– viyoT gulwrfelebi, dRes opozicia Zalian sustia. Tu movlenebs qronologiurad gavixsenebT, 26 oqtombris Semdeg, amas davaskvniT. unda aRiniSnos, rom opoziciam saproteso muxti ver awia, rasac aqvs Tavisi mizezebi. . . roca xelisuflebam daaanonsa, rom is wyvetda urTierTobas evrokavSirTan, maSin xalxi gamovida quCaSi. quCis protesti aCvenebs erT rames, rasac opoziciam yuradReba unda miaqcios: 54 dRis ganmavlobaSi mimdinareobs aqciebi lideris gareSe, es xom ar mianiSnebs, rom am qveyanaSi sazogadoebis dakveTa aris Zalauflebis decentralizacia, anu erT adamians ar unda eWiros Zalaufleba arcerT sferoSi? sazogadoebam aCvena, rom maT TviTorganizebiT SeuZliaT didi politikuri procesebis marTva. amis magaliTia Tundac is, rom aqciebis yvelaze daZabul dReebSic ki arcerTi kerZo sakuTreba ar dazianebula, radgan Cven ar gvawyobs destabilizacia. Cven mosaxleobas xelisuflebis cvlilebis Semdeg unda SevTavazoT Zalauflebis samarTlianad, obieqturad gadanawileba, rom cvlilebebis Semdeg mxolod Tanamdebobis pirebi ki ar Seicvlebian, aramed sistema, anu Tu Cven adamians davarwmunebT, rom realuri reformebi tardeba, rom policia verasdros gabedavs, absurduli braldebiT vinme hyavdes dakavebuli da SeiZleba am qveyanaSi icxovron Tavisufalad, maSin isini cvlilebebisTvis nabijs gadadgamen.
– analitikosebi acxadeben, rom saqarTvelos da dasavleTis urTierTobebi uaresdeba da Tu es procesi gagrZelda, qveyana izolaciaSi moeqceva. . .
– samwuxarod, qveyana ukve izolaciaSia. magaliTad, rodesac aSS-ma strategiuli partniorobis SeCereba daaanonsa, aseve, ramdenimemilioniani daxmareba SeaCera evrokavSirma, es ukve izolaciaa.
– mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom evrokavSirTan daaxloebis procesi Tavad evrokavSirma SeaCera. . .
– es xelisufleba, rogorc yovelTvis, ityueba. maT, specialurad, ruseTisken mimavali gza airCies. xelisufleba amas imitom akeTebs, rom sazogadoebas daanaxos, TiTqos erTaderTi xsna ruseTia… am mxriv, opozicia da mediac codavs. mmarTveli partia rom cudia, amaze qarTuli sazogadoeba Camoyalibebulia. opozicia da media mmarTveli partiis dRis wesrigis niusebis komentarebiT Semoifargleba, rac xelisuflebis wisqvilze asxams wyals. mmarTveli partia rom cudia, gavigeT, magram cvlilebis Semdeg rogor qveyanas mTavazob, amaze unda imsjelos opoziciam.
– sxvaTa Soris, eqspertebi acxadeben, rom opozicia Secda, rodesac saarCevnod msgavs Temebze ar saubrobda. . .
– diax, Secda opozicia da es unda vaRiaroT. mmarTvelma partiam 42 procenti miiRo, es egzitpolebmac daadastura, es niSnavs, rom opoziciam saTanadod ver daarwmuna mosaxleoba xelisuflebis Secvlis aucileblobaSi. cxadia, mmarTvelma gundma 7 procenti moipara, amis mtkicebulebebic devs, rom arCevnebi gayalbda, magram Cven kiTxva davsvaT – miuxedavad am gayalbebisa, amdeni procenti mmarTvelma partiam ratom miiRo? opoziciam ratom ar miawoda xalxs gasagebad da damajereblad qveyanaSi mimdinare procesebze informaciebi, droulad ar amxila mmarTveli partiis gamiznuli cru propaganda omis Sesaxeb?! calke lgbt propagandam da SiSma mosaxleobis nawilze imuSava, ramac aRniSnuli Sedegi moitana. dRes kiTxvas svams moqalaqe – ra iqneba xval? Tu iqneba bundovaneba, rom cvlilebebma SeiZleba uaresi moitanos am qveynisTvis, ar gariskavs aravin, es adamianuria. Cven gvWirdeba, ufro didi sicxadiT davanaxoT adamianebs, rom cvlilebebs am qveyanaSi omi da ubedureba ki ar moaqvs, aramed – ukeTesoba. Cven, aseve, mkafio pozicia unda gvqondes imazec, ra moxdeba cvlilebebis Semdeg xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebis mimarT. Tu mTavari amocanaa, rom cvlilebebisTanave unda daviWiroT da amas davapirebT kidec, es revanSia, rasac ar SeiZleba hqondes sazogadoebis mxardaWera imitom, rom revanSi aris bundovaneba.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT. mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom aSS-is axal administraciasTan daaregulirebs urTierTobas. . .
– gamoricxuli araferia. trampi roca Seva TeTri saxlis ovalur kabinetSi, ara mgonia, saqarTvelos sakiTxi iyos pirveli misTvis. es erTi, meore – trampis imedi arasworad aqvs mmarTvel gunds, saboloo jamSi, trampma Riad da sajarod ganacxada, rom ar megobrobs CineTTan, iranTan, Cven gvaxsovs premier-ministr irakli kobaxiZis viziti iranSi, prezidentis dakrZalvaze, sadac ismoda SeZaxili: sikvdili israels! sikvdili amerikas! Cven, aseve, vnaxeT CineTTan strategiuli partniorobis gancxadebebi im fonze, roca amerikasTan strategiul partniorobas wyvet. xelisuflebis Sansia axali arCevnebi, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi isini politikurad gacamtverdebian.
– dabolos, gaqvT imedi, rom xelisuflebas daTmobaze daiyoliebT arCevnebis CatarebasTan dakavSirebiT?
– am xelisuflebas daTmobaze ver daiyolieb imitom, rom is rusuli reJimia, gadamgdebi xalxia. mmarTveli partia yovelTvis ukan ixevs, rodesac xedavs Zalas, Sesabamisad, am Zalas xedavs dRes `qarTuli ocneba~, amitom aris agoniaSi da mxolod Tofian xalxs eyrdnoba. Cven am did saprotesto muxts unda davumatoT idea, xalxs UNDAunda davanaxoT, rom es qveyana marTla gviyvars, rom marTla evropelebi varT! evropa ras niSnavs? evropa xom ar aris marto geografiuli mdebareoba, evropa aris cxovrebis wesi, sadac Cagvra, tyuili, SerCeviTi samarTli ar aris. da rogor vaRwevT amas Cvens qveyanaSi? es mosaxleobas kargad unda gavagebinoT, amaSi vxedav gamosavals. Tu amas ver vagebinebT sazogadoebas, maSin morevazea saqme, anu vinc moigebs, is rCeba erTpirovnuli mmarTveli. me ar minda erTpirovnuli mmarTveli. mokled, Tu murusiZis sasamarTlo gveqneba, evropaSi ar migviReben. evropa Cven aranairi suverenitetis daTmobas ar gvTxovs, evropa gveubneba, Tqven xarT uZvelesi civilizaciis xalxi da im wesebiT unda icxovroT, `sadac qmna marTlisa~ mniSvnelovania, sadac sicrue da orpiroba ar mosula, sadac moyvasis Zebna da mokavSireoba mniSvnelovania da am moraliT cxovreba aris evropa. . . mokled, evropa rCeba erTaderT adgilad, sadac problemis gadaWra dialogis gziTaa SesaZlebeli, xolo ruseTi da danarCeni samyaro aris adgili, sadac problema tankiT wydeba, esaa gansxvaveba. Cven gvinda iseTi ojaxis wevrebi viyoT, sadac Cveni istoriuli adgilia, anu dasavleTSi, evrokavSirsa da natoSi, sadac araTu Cveni usafrTxoeba, aramed ekonomikuri keTildReobac garantirebuli iqneba.
