მასთან საუბარი გვახსენებს, რომ სისხლი ტყუილუბრალოდ არ დაღვრილა
oTar cinariZe 599 85 21 14 –
1989 wlis 9 aprili tragikul dRed Caiwera mravaltanjuli qarTveli eris istoriaSi. maSin gamoCnda Cveni xalxis damokidebuleba erovnuli Rirebulebebisadmi, romlis sadaveebTan sulmnaTi merab kostava da zviad gamsaxurdia idgnen. 35 weli qarTuli saxelmwifoebriobis 27-saukunovani istoriისთვის didi araferia, magram drois am monakveTSi qveyanam mraval gansacdels gauZlo da Tanamedrove civilizebul samyaroSi sapatio adgilis damkvidrebisTvis ibrZvis. sisxliani 9 aprilis monawileTa Soris iyo medicinis saqveynod cnobili muSaki, Suaxevis raionis sofel darCiZeebis mkvidri ramaz surmaniZe. masTan saubari erTxel kidev gvaxsenebs im procesebs, rac im dros mimdinareobda da vin iyvnen მაშინდელი მოვლენების sulisCamdgmelebi.
– batono ramaz, 35 wlis Semdegac ki არ გასულა ტკივილი umanko msxverplTa gamo, magram maTi wminda sisxli tyuilubralod ar daRvrila, igi saqarTvelos erTianobis, erovnuli simtkicis winapirobad iqca. movlenebis uSualo monawile am TariRs rogor afasebT?
– 1989 wlis 9 aprils saqarTvelos istoriaSi axali, tragikuli furceli Caiwera. sabWourma reJimma sruliad udanaSaulo adamianebi Seiwira. moklulebs Soris iyvnen skolis moswavleebi, Cemi Taobis adamianebi. 35 wlis winათ, am dRes, me da Cemi megobrebic videqiT rusTavelis prospeqtze, radgan gvwamda, rom iq yofna iyo gadamwyveti da Zalian mniSvnelovani Tavisuflebisa da Cveni saamSoblos damoukideblobisaTvis. 1989 wlis 9 aprils mohyva 1991 wlis 9 aprili – saqarTvelos saxelmwifos damoukideblobis aRdgenis aqtis miReba. es aris magaliTi imisა, rom brZola yovelTvis Rirs, Tu is Rirseuli da qveynis erTianobis, damoukideblobisa da Tavisuflebisken aris mimarTuli. zustad aseTma suliskveTebam da brZolebma gadaarCina Cveni qveyana saukuneebis ganmavlobaSi. dResac aseTi SemarTeba, erTianoba da erTi miznisთვის brZolaa saWiro, raTa gavaerTianoT Cveni qveyana, davibrunoT da SevinarCunoT Cvenive sisxliT mopovebuli damoukidebloba da Tavisufleba.
– 9 aprils istoriuli winapirobebi hqonda. . .
– ra Tqma unda. saqarTveloSi erovnul-ganmaTavisuflebeli moZraoba jer kidev wina saukunis 70-iani wlebidan daiwyo, roca gaCnda disidenturi moZraobebi saqarTveloSi da 1974 wels Camoyalibda „helsinkis kavSiri“, romelsac saTaveSi Caudgnen zviad gamsaxurdia da merab kostava. isini ara mxolod adamianis uflebebis dacvas, aramed saqarTvelos damoukideblobis ideis popularizacias cdilobdnen. 1978 wels gaimarTa farTomasStabiani demonstracia qarTuli enis konstituciuri statusis dasacavad. es dRe me bundovnad maxsovs, maSin me-7 klasis moswavle viyavi. isic naTelia, sabWoTa imperiuli saagitacio manqana rogor aSუqebda aseT movlenebs. 1988 wlidan aqtiurad ჩავერთე erovnul moZraobaSi Cems Tanasoflel megobrebTan erTad. maSin Tbilisis saxelmwifo samedicino institutis mexuTe kursis studenti gaxldiT. TebervalSi, Tbilisis saxelmwifo universitetSi dafuZnda universitetis presklubi, romlis erT-erTi aqtiuri wevri Cemi biZaSvili, universitetis meore kursis studenti aw gansvenebuli oTar surmaniZe iyo. man iTamaSa yvelaze didi roli Cveni megobrebis erovnul-ganmaTavisuflebel moZraobaSi Caსაბმელად. pirveli mitingi, romelSic me da oTari vmonawileobodiT, 1988 wlis 14 aprils gaimarTa merab kostavas saxlis win, moedanze, e.w. zemelze da sul raRac 300-mde monawile viyaviT. mitingi 20 wuTiს gagrZelda, Semdeg ki amoqmedda sabWoTa manqana, dagvarbies da 78 adamiani daiWires, maT Soris merab kostava da zurab WavWavaZe, romlebic mitings uZRvebodnen. me da oTari SemTxveviT gadavurCiT daWeras. Cven saswrafod universitetSi wavediT. me ezoSi velodebodi. dRis 13 saaTi iyo, oTari Sevida SenobaSi da daaxloebiT 20 wuTSi 1500-mde studenti quCaSi gamovida. gavemarTeT mTavrobis saxlisken, gzadagza SemogvierTda uamravi adamiani. universitetidan operamde trotuarebiT mivediT, Semde ki rusTavelis gamziriT msvleloba gavagrZeleT, magram mTavrobis saxlamde ar mivsulvarT – sastumro `TbilisTan~ gza gadagviRoba miliciis kordonma. iq movida zviad gamsaxurdia da Zalian mZafri saubari hqonda maSindel Sinagan saqmeTa ministr SoTa gorgoZesTan, romelsac im Sexvedris Semdeg zedmetsaxelად `paJalusta ministri~ Searqves. molaparakebis Semdeg saprotesto aqcia JurnalistTa saxlTan gvin saRamomde gagrZelda, Sedegad ki yvela momitinge gaaTavisufles. es dRe iyo gardamtexi – davinaxe, brZolas rogor moaqvs Sedegi, aseve, qarTveli xalxis survili da miswrafeba damoukideblobisa da Tavisuflebisken, ramac sabolood daamarcxda CemSi SiSis sindromi da momeca saSualeba, ufro aqtiurad mebrZola. marto 1988 wels 30-mde mitingi da demonstracia gaimarTa, romelTagan mxolod 4 iyo oficialurad sanqcirebuli, maT Soris yvelaze masStaburi manifestaciebi 23-29 noembers iyo. qarTveli xalxis aqtiurobam iZulebuli gaxada xelisufleba, sazogadoebis moTxovna daekmayofilebina. es iyo gardamtexi momenti damoukideblobisTvis brZolaSi. mas mohyva 1989 wlis 4-9 aprilis aqciebi, mitingi 5 dRe-Rame gagrZelda. axalgazrdebis didma jgufma SimSiloba gamoacxada. rusTavelis prospeqti gadaiketa da daiwyo sagaficvo moZraoba. 9 aprils, Ramis 4 saaTze sabWoTa jalaTebma mxuTavi airis, orlesuli niCbebisa da cecxlsasroli iaraRis gamoyenebiT daarbia TbilisSi, rusTavelis gamzirze mimdinare mSvidobiani saprotesto aqcia. am dros me, tariel futkaraZe, oTar surmaniZe, Tamaz CavleiSvili da sergo surmaniZe erTad videqiT, Cemi Tanasofleli, aw gansvenebuli Temur cecxlaZe ki samedicino institutis win mimdinare aqciaze imyofeboda rogorc erT-erTi organizatori. darbevis dros Cven mxatvris saxlis mxares gadavinacvleT, SevangrieT darbazis karebi da daviwyeT qalebis da daSavebuli adamianebis Seyvana mxatvris saxlis darbazSi da oTaxebSi, magram jalaTebi iqac Semovidnen da daiwyes Cveni darbeva. am dros viRacam Senobis ukana kedeli Semoangria TviTmcleli satvirTo manqanis ZariT da iqidan gaviyvaneT qalebi da daSavebuli adamianebi. mec daWeres orlesuli niCbiT muxlis areSi.
– Tanasoflel Temur cecxlaZis, oTar surmaniZisa da damoukideblobis aqtze xelismomwer tariel futkaraZis msgavsad, urTierTobebi gqondaT merab kostavasa da zviad gamsaxurdiasTan. oTxeulidan wuTisofels mxolod Tqven SemorCiT. . . ramdenime mniSvnelovani ambis gaxseneba kargi iqneboda. . .
– Cemi da Temur cecxlaZis erovnul moZraobaSi CarTvaSi didi roli iTamaSa oTar surmaniZem. 1988 wlis Tebervali iyo, Ramis 11 saaTze oTari movida CvenTan (me da Temuri erTad vcxovrobdiT) da didi kamaTisa da winaaRmdegobis miuxedavad, taqsiT wagviyvana merab kostavasTan binaSi. iq vnaxe pirvelad sulmnaTi merabi. naxevarsaaTiani saubris Semdeg mivxvdi, Tu rogor sicrueSi vcxovrobdiT, mivxvdi, rom ufro Rrmad unda meswavla saqarTvelos WeSmariti istoria. man gadmogvca Jurnal `saqarTvelos moambis~ da gazeT `saqarTvelos qronikis~ ramdenime nomeri da gvTxova, megobrebTan erTad wagvekiTxa da gvemsjela. megobrebi konspiraciulad vikribebodiT da vkiTxulodiT am literaturas, vmarTavdiT Zalian saintereso diskusiebs ase daiwyo Cveni urTierToba merab kostavasTan. rac Seexeba zviad gamsaxurdiasTan Cems urTierTobas, mxolod erTxel Sevxvdi pirispir kolxur koSkSi, iqac oTarma mimiyvana. oTari kolxuri koSkis xSiri stumari iyo da bevri Ramec aqvs gaTenebuli iq.
– Temur cecxlaZis saxels atarebs darCiZeebis sajaro skola, tariel futkaraZisas – Subnis. ratom ar warmoCnda oTar surmaniZis (`stalinis Svilis~) damsaxureba?
– Temur cecxlaZem da tariel futkaraZem skola daamTavres mSobliur kuTxeSi. patriotebi da mareTis xeobis gamorCeuli adamianebi iyvnen, romlebmac mokle wuTisofelSi Zalian didi sikeTe da siyvaruli daTeses, erTgulad emsaxurebodnen Tavis kuTxes da xalxs. amitomac warmoCnda maTi saxelebi mSobliur soflebSi, oTar surmaniZem ki skola (komarovis) TbilisSi daamTavra da imave wels swavla gaagrZela universitetSi. vfiqrob, mova dro, oTar surmaniZis damsaxureba da wvlili aucileblad warmoCndeba.
– kidev mravali Rirseuli pirovnebis saqme da saxelia miviwyebuli. raa saWiro maT warmosaCenad?
– imedia, dadgeba dro, roca yvelafers Tavisi saxeli daerqmeva, yvela Rirseuli qarTvelis saqme da saxeli (ra Tqma unda, maT Soris oTar surmaniZis) amotivtivdeba da Caiwereba Cvens istoriaSi.
– samedicino institutis dasrulebis Semdeg, mSobliur kuTxeSi samuSaod wamoxvediT. dawyebuli urTierTobebi rogor gagrZelda?
– institutis damTavrebis Semdeg, Cemi politikuri cxovreba profesiulma saqmianobam Caanacvla. ra Tqma unda, megobrebTan urTierTobebi grZeldeba. samwuxarod, Zalian bevri megobari gamomaklda.
– 30 welze metia, profesiiT saqmianobT. darCiZeebeli surmaniZeebis gvarSi ramdenime warmatebuli eqimi xarT. . .
– Cveni ganaTleba, pirvel rigSi, mSoblebis da im skolis pedagogebis (darCiZeebis saSualo skola) damsaxurebaa, sadac vswavlobdiT. im dros, Cvenis skolis 16 kursdamTavrebuli Tbilisis sxvadasxva umaRles saswavlebelSi veuflebodiT ganaTlebas. is, rom orive Zma eqimi varT, mamis damsaxurebad SeiZleba CaiTvalos. igi wlebis ganmavlobaSi muSaobda Subnis saubno saavadmyofoSi mZRolad didebul adamianTan, dimitri
cecxlaZesTan, romelic Cveni TaobisTvis kacobis, megobrobis, profesionalizmis etaloni iyo da aris.
– erovnul moZraobaSi CarTulma pirovnebam aqamde sazogadoebas saintereso warsuli ratom ar gaacaniT?
-1990 wlidan Cemi politikuri cxovreba Seicvala da 33 welia adamianebis janmrTelobis sadarajoze vdgavar. ase minda gavataro Cemi darCenili cxovreba. vfiqrob, es aris Cemi erovnuli moZraobac da moRvaweobac, radgan Cemi profesiiT SemiZlia movutano yvelaze meti sikeTe xalxs da samSoblos.
– saintereso da Sinaarsiani warsulis gagrZelebaa siyvarulsa da sikeTeze dafuZnebuli ojaxis winamZRoloba. . .
– ojaxi 1993 wels Sevqmeni. meuRle dali maxaraZe sxalTa-xixanis xeobis erT-erTi gamorCeuli ojaxis Svilia, vinc Zalian myarad amiba mxari da dRemde siyvaruliTa da pativiscemiT, erTad vemsaxurebiT ojaxs da qveyanas. gvyavs ori Svili (qal-vaJi) da ori SviliSvili.