რა უნდა იღონონ მმართველი გუნდისა და ოპოზიციის წარმომადგენლებმა ?
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qveynis politikuri veli danaRmulis asociacias iwvevs, saxifaTo afeTqebis molodinSi ki problemuri da sakvanZo sakiTxebisadmi gonivruli midgomisa da gadaWris gzebs udidesi mniSvneloba eniWeba. diax, es noemberi gansxvavebulia Tavisi gamowvevebiT da araerT kiTxvas badebs . . . pasuxebi? Aamjerad, politolog gela iremaZis Tvalsazriss gTavazobT.
– qveyanaSi mimdinare procesebze ras fiqrobT?
– bolo xanebSi erT-erTi seriozuli problema qveynis SigniT mimdinare postsaarCevno periodia, saakaSvilis Tema da zogadad, arCevnebi aqtualobas ar kargavs da cxadia, zemoaRniSnuli da sxva sakiTxebi umniSvnelovanesi gamowveva iqneba qarTuli saxelmwifos winaSe.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT saakaSvilis Temas, eqspertebi amboben, rom mesame prezidenti Tavsatexia am xelisuflebisTvis.
– vfiqrob, rom Zalian dramatulad mimdinareobs es procesi da albaT axals arafers vityvi, Tu aRvniSnav, rom eqsprezidentis sakiTxi gamowvevaa Cveni qveynisTvis. ra Tqma unda, mniSvnelovania, daculi iqnas adamianis fundamenturi uflebebi. sicocxle da janmrTeloba yovelgvari politikis sazRvrebs scildeba. rogorc viciT, sasamarTlom saakaSvils braldebebi wauyena sxvadasxva sakiTxTan mimarTebiT. zogadad, mesame prezidentis dakaveba, mere rusTavis cixidan gldanis cixeSi gadayvana da sabolood, goris samxedro hospitalSi moTavseba absurdis Teatrs daemsgavsa.
– garkveulwilad, politikuri krizisi ganimuxta. saakaSvili goris samxedro hospitalSi moTavsda, rac dadebiTad Seafases rogorc opozicionerebma, aseve Cvenma dasavlelma partniorebma, Tqveni azri amis Taobaze?
– kargia, rom xelisuflebam gonivruli nabiji gadadga, amiT aicila mosaxleobis urTierTdapirispireba. es Soreul warsulSi ukve gamovcadeT da ra Sedegebi moitana, yvelas Zalian kargad gvaxsovs. aqedan gamomdinare, xelisuflebas am mxriv meti pasuxismgebloba ekisreba. mkiTxvels Sevaxseneb, rom Cvenma qveyanam 1991 wlis miwuruls ganviTarebuli movlenebis anu saxelmwifo gadatrialebis da samoqalaqo omis Sedegad afxazeTi da nawilobriv cxinvalis regioni dakarga. es kargad unda gaiTavisos rogorc xelisuflebam, aseve opoziciam.
– sxvaTa Soris, opozicia ambobs (magaliTad, mamuka xazaraZe), rom xelisuflebam dasavleTs zurgi aqcia, eTanxmebiT aseT Sexedulebas?
– ver daveTanxmebi. msgavs gancxadebebs sWirdeba argumentirebuli faqtebi. unda iTqvas, qarTulma mxarem dasavlel partniorebTan maRali donis Sexvedrebi gamarTa, vizitebi ganxorcielda evropaSi, Tundac qveynis prezidentis mxridan. ase rom, aseTi gancxadeba politikuri vaWrobis sagania, Tundac, mamuka xazaraZis mxridan.
– rakiRa dasavleTi vaxseneT, minda gkiTxoT, rogor SeafasebdiT evroparlamentarebis (andrias kubiliusi, ana fotega . . . ) gancxadebebs Cveni xelisuflebis misamarTiT?
– qarTuli sazogadoeba erT sakiTxSi unda SeTanxmdes – evropa, zogadad, dasavleTi saqarTvelosadmi keTiladaa ganwyobili. amis Tqmis safuZvels iZleva Tundac is, rom dasavleTma Cvens qveyanas ara mxolod politikuri mxardaWera gamoucxada evrokavSirsa da natoSi gasaerTianeblad, aramed ekonomikuri da finansuri daxmarebac gauwia. calkeuli evroparlamentarebis da amerikeli kongresmenebis gzavnilebi swored saqarTvelos demokratiulobis ganmtkicebisTvisaa gamiznuli. erTi ram cxadia: gza evrokavSirsa da natosken warmatebuli qveynis xvedria da Tu am gziT vivliT, arc progresul qveyanaTa mxardaWera da Tanadgoma mogvakldeba . . . rac Seexeba evroparlamentarebis bolodroindel gancxadebebs, maTi mizezi isaa, rom is damokidebuleba, rac iyo (gasul wlebSi) politikur speqtrSi, ar Secvlila. vgulisxmob siZulvilis enas, urTierTdapirispirebas, gansxvavebuli azris miuReblobas da a. S. kargi iqneboda, am adgilobriv arCevnebSi demokratiulobis TvalsazrisiT erTi nabiji win gadagvedga, anu politikur speqtrs civilurad epaeqra. garkveuli darRvevebis miuxedavad, arCevnebma mosaxleobis ganwyoba aCvena – sakrebuloebSi opozicia mniSvnelovnadaa warmodgenili.
– ufro detalurad, am arCevnebma ra cxadyo?
– am arCevnebis ZiriTadi sami faqtori TvalnaTelia: sazogadoeba polarizebulia, mosaxleobis nawili – indiferentuli da xalxs ar unda erTmmarTveloba. es arCevnebi imiTac iyo gamorCeuli, rom ramdenime qalaqsa da municipalitetSi meore turi gaimarTa, walenjixaSi ki meri opozicioneri gaxda.
– opozicia Tvlis, rom xelisufleba Seecdeba walenjixis axal mers problemebi Seuqmnas.
– ras gulisxmobs problemebis SeqmnaSi opozicia, ar vici. sagulisxmoa evrokavSiris moTxovna decentralizaciasTan dakavSirebiT. es moTxovna meti Tavisuflebis miniWebas gulisxmobs adgilobrivi TviTmmarTvelobisTvis. aqedan gamomdinare, opoziciis es Sexeduleba gadaWarbebulia . . . magram aseve, isic unda iTqvas, rom konstruqciuli dialogis da TanamSromlobis gareSe TviTmmarTveli erTeuli damoukideblad ver SeZlebs gamowvevebis gadaWras. zogadad, umjobesia koaliciuri mTavrobis formireba. amis Tqmis saSualebas gvaZlevs Cveni dasavleli partniorebis mowodebebi Cveni politikosebisadmi, gadadgan qmediTi nabijebi koaliciuri mTavrobis formirebisTvis. Tu gvinda davuaxlovdeT evrokavSirs, aucilebeli winapirobaa, rom erTpartiuli mmarTvelobis sistema dasruldes qveynaSi, Zalauflebis gadanawileba unda moxdes rogorc maJoritaruli, ise proporciuli mimarTulebiT, rac realurad gulisxmobs koaliciuri mTavrobis formirebas, amisken unda gvqondes miswrafeba.
– opozicia vadamdeli arCevnebis Catarebas iTxovs, zurab jafariZem ganacxada, ros opoziciam xelisuflebasTan sabrZolvelad axali miznebi da formebi unda SeimuSaos, procesebis rogor ganviTarebas elodebiT?
– saerTod, opozicia didi xania cdilobs sxvadasxva formis SemuSavebas xe-lisuflebaze zemoqmedebisTvis, iciT, mxolod imis Zaxili, rom mTavroba ar varga arafris momcemia, am mxriv opozicias unda hqondes mkafio gegma sxvadasxva sakiTxTan mimarTebiT. mas gaaCnda programebi qveynis ganviTarebasTan dakavSirebiT, Tumca mosaxleobas saTanadod ver miawvdines. es garkveulwilad, polarizebulma saarCevno garemomac ganapiroba. rac Seexeba vadamdel arCevnebs, misi Catareba garkveulwilad, dgas dRis wesrigSi. uaxloes momavalSi unda velodoT igive koaliciuri mTavrobis Camoyalibebas. diax, Cven koaliciuri mTavrobebiT unda SevZloT saxelmwifos marTva, rogorc adgilobriv, aseve centralur doneze . . . magaliTad, pirveli precedenti aris walenjixis municipalitetSi, sadac opoziciam gaimarjva, xolo mmarTveli partia opoziciur speqtrSia, am municipalitetSi Tu isini urTierTTanamSromlobas Tavs aarideben, ra Tqma unda, sakrebulos gauWirdeba gadawyvetilebis miReba. aucilebelia, politikuri speqtri sazogadoebas aZlevdes ganviTarebis saSualebas, misi saqmianobac sazogadoebis keTildReobaze unda aisaxos. sxvagvarad rom vTqvaT, arasaxarbielo ekonomikuri mdgomareoba, kovidi, arastabiluri politikuri garemo da sxva problemebi erToblivi ZaliT unda imarTos da optimalurad gadaiWras.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT, aSkarad vxedavT, rom ruseTi cdilobs saqarTvelos e. w. eqvseulis formatSi (analitikosTa azriT, antidasavluri gaerTianebaa) Seyvanas . . .
– saerTod, ruseTi didi xania iRvwis, rom saqarTvelo dasavlur orbitas mowyvitos da am mxriv, sxvadasxva meqanizms mimarTavs. rac Seexeba e. w. eqvseulis formats, is ideis donezea, sadac unda gaerTiandes ruseTi, TurqeTi, irani da sami samxreTkavkasiuri qveyana. Cvenma mosaxleobam referendumze gadawyvita _ saqarTvelo eswrafvis natosa da evrokavSirSi gaerTianebas. samomavlod rom SevinarCunoT damoukidebloba da suvereniteti, aucilebelia dasayrdeni Zalis povna msoflioSi.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– saWiroa aSS-sTan mokavSiris xelSekrulebis gaformeba. am kuTxiT unda iyos muSaoba gaCaRebuli, yuradsaRebia isic, rom arasworma nabijebma SeiZleba Zalian seriozuli negatiuri Sedegebi mogvitanos da amas mohyves ara marto qveynis SigniT arsebuli politikuri dRis wesrigis Secvla, aramed Cvens saxelmwifoebriobasac Seeqmnas safrTxe, mkiTxvels kargad moexsneba, rom Cven, faqtobrivad, saomar mdgomareobaSi varT ruseTTan, romelsac okupirebuli aqvs Cveni teritoriebi. garda amisa, ruseTis jari Tbilisidan 40 kilometrSi imyofeba, rac safrTxis Semcvelia saqarTvelosTvis da amitom gonivruli nabijebis gadadgma gvmarTebs . . . araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar unda Seicvalos is dRis wesrigi, romelic Cvenma erma jer kidev damoukideblobis mopovebis Semdeg airCia. jer kidev meoce saukunis dasawyisSi saqarTvelos xedva iyo evropa. aseve 1991 da 2008 wlis referendumebis Sedegad Cveni mosaxleobis veqtori aris dasavleTi, anu evroatlantikur struqturebSi gaerTianeba, ramac saqarTvelos unda moutanos meti investicia, meti usafrTxoeba da keTildReoba.