ექსკლუზიურად ,,აჭარისთვის” – ინტერვიუ ,,იარე, ლიზას” სცენარისტთან
filmi omSi sarafniT gaqceuli gogonas dRiurebidan
filmis `iare, liza~ (reJisori – nana janeliZe) Cveneba baTumSi manamde gaimarTa, sanam Tbilisur premieras aJiotaJi, metic scenarist lia toklikiSvilis bulingi mohyveboda, ris saCvenebladac media kritikis mier gamoqveynebuli gancxadebidan es amonaridic ikmarebs: `maRali sazogadoebrivi interesidan gamomdinare, media valdebulia, keTilsindisierad gaaSuqos filmis Sinaarssa Tu mis gadaRebasTan dakavSirebuli yvela detali da zusti informacia miawodos mayurebels. amis nacvlad `tv pirvelma~ `iare, lizas~ skandalurobis mTavar RerZad warmoaCina`qarTuli ocnebisa~ da sus–is gegma – Seamzados sazogadoeba afxazeTis aRiarebisTvis~
baTumel mayurebels msgavsi araferi mosvlia azrad, roca `biafis~ saerTaSoriso saavtoro kinofestivalze `iare liza~ naxa. man filmi emociurad miiRo, kidev erTxel daitira oms Sewiruli qarTveli biWebi da didxans ukravda taSs. man miiRo filmis avtorebis Tvalsazrisi, rom omSi arc gamarjvebuli arsebobs da arc ucodveli, rom filmis mizani ar yofila damnaSavis Zieba, radgan aseTad Tavidanve miCneuli hyavs ruseTi. amis niSania, Tundac, filmis animaciur nawilSi `didi beladis~ – leninis SeWyiteba soxumelTa fanjrebSi. afxazeTidan devnilebis protestma, romelic maT kinoTeatr `amiranSi~ `iare, lizas~ demonstrirebis Semdeg gamoxates, gvaCvena, rom filmis avtorebs, SesaZloa, meti sifrTxile marTebdaT ,,mxedrionis~ namoqmedaris Tundac animaciurad aRwerisas, Tumca maT Sesaxeb isedac yvelam kargad vicodiT. ar vici, Seicvleboda rame Tu ara am faqtebis araRiarebiT, daiviwyebda ki amas gind qarTuli da gind afxazuri mxare! vfiqrob, lia toklikiSvili mzad iyo imisTvis, rom bevri Tanamemamule am films uaryofiTad aRiqvamda. es filmidanac ki Cans, romelSic mTavar gmirs, teleJurnalists afxazebisadmi loialur damokidebulebaSi adanaSaulebdnen mayureblebic da sakuTari ojaxis wevrebic ki. miuxedavad amisa, man aucileblobad CaTvala am Temaze aseTi gansxvavebuli kuTxiT esaubra, TanamemamuleebisTvis afxazebis TvaliTac daenaxebina mtkivneuli warsuli (filmSi gamoyenebulia afxazebis dRiurebic) ratom? mainc risi Tqma surda am filmiT (scenari swored afxazeTis omSi yofnisas da Semdegac misi Jurnalisturi Canawerebis mixedviT Seiqmna), marTlac, adanaSaulebda Tu ara igi qarTul mxares am omTan dakavSirebiT raimeSi? amaze pasuxebs dRevandel interviuSi miiRebT, romelic baTumuri premieris Semdeg CaviwereT. diax, Tu adamiani winaswar, raRac politikuri miznebiT ar aris `dajavSnili~, aucileblad gaigebs, ras ambobs qalbatoni lia da ra mizniT Seiqmna es filmi. SesaZloa vinmes moeCvenos, rom filmi am mizans ver amarTlebs, magram iseTebic iqnebian, vinc mis SemqmnelTa misias gamarTlebulad miiCnevs da adamianTa garkveuli raodenobis gulebamde is aucileblad miaRwevs.
Cven Segnebulad davelodeT am filmis irgvliv atexili xmaurisa da emociebis ganelebas, raTa gansxvavebuli Sexedulebis mqone qarTvelebs ufro dinjad da dafiqrebiT SeexedaT im TvalsazrisisTvis, rasac filmSic da am interviuSic `iare lizas~ scenaris da misi gadaRebis ideis avtori lia toklikiSvili gamoxatavs.
– ratom unda iaros mTavarma gmirma, anu ratom daarqviT films `iare, liza~?
– am films kinoenaze `gzis filmi~ hqvia, anu siarulis dros, moZraobaSi Cans yvelaferi. nanam es forma airCia, raTa eCvenebina Cveni qveyana. filmi emzadeba festivalebze monawileobisTvis. ukve iyo stumrad miwveuli ramdenime qveyanaSi da naxon unda adamianebma, rogoria saqarTvelo. dameTanxmebiT, rom filmSi, marTlac, Zalian lamazadaa warmoCenili Cveni qveyana. amave dros am saTaurSi aris alegoria imisa, rom Cven, yvelas, gvaqvs es mimarTuleba, Cven varT adamianebi, romlebmac ukve gamoviareT es gza, me da Cemma Taobam. . .
– iqidan aqeT. . .
– diax, axla gvaqvs sasiamovno aqedan – iqiT da am dros xdeba adamianis rogorc fizikuri, aseve sulieri gardasaxva im faqtebis Txrobisas, romlebic films mihyveba. me ar meguleba adamiani, romelzec es ar aisaxeba. . . yovelTvis guldasmiT vekiTxebi yvela Cems megobars, romelic naxavs am films, rame icvleba Tu ara masSi ara mxolod informaciis miRebis TvalsazrisiT. arian adamianebi, me myavs aseTi uaxloesi megobrebi, romlebsac afxazebi sZuldaT da sZulT dRemde, magram rodesac es filmi naxes da SeZles dafiqreba imaze, rom am omiT sikvdili, devniloba, ubedureba vnaxeT ara mxolod qarTvelebma, aramed afxazebmac, rom pirveli devniloba, rac naxa soxumma, es iyo afxazebis devniloba. . . roca am informacias igeb, xom SeuZlebelia imave azrze, imave adgilas darCe afxazeTis miuReblobaSi, ra adgilzec iyavi. Cveni kino swored amiskenaa mimarTuli. afxazebisTvis vapirebT imis SeTavazebas, rom es filmi afxazeTSic anaxon, radgan es filmi imisTvisaa, rom qarTveli dafiqrdes afxazis mdgomareobaze da piriqiT – afxazi dafiqrdes qarTvelis mdgomareobaze. Cven erTmaneTs Zalian vavneT da amaze minda davfiqrdeT. universumis kanonia, rom Tu ginda raime daimsaxuro, amisTvis yvelaferi unda gaakeTo. Tu araferi gaakeTe da mudmivad im azrze darCi, ra azriTac omi ganviTarda, mudmivad adanaSaule afxazi, romelic ar aris meore mxare, Seni mxarea, meore mxare anu mowinaaRmdege ruseTia, win ver waxval. Tu ar Secvale Seni damokidebuleba da ar gaiazre, rom swored ruseTma moaxerxa Seni da afxazis erTdrouli damarcxeba, imiT, rom gagTiSaT, SegaZulaT erTmaneTi, dagapirispiraT, ise araferi gamova. leninis qandakeba, romelic filmis animaciur nawilSi iWyiteba soxumelebis fanjrebSi, swored amaze migvaniSnebs. ase iyureba igi Cvens fanjrebSic, es aris rusuli monstris simbolo, romelmac moaxerxa rogorc afxazis, aseve qarTvelis gandevna – erTis fizikurad (qarTvelis) meoris – yvelanairi gaazrebiT, radgan afxazi dRes meorexarisxovan mdgomareobaSia. es iyo Cveni filmis saTqmeli, mizani da mgonia, rom aseTi formiT, rogoric nanam airCia, Cven mizans mivaRwieT.
– filmi agebulia Jurnalistis Canawerebis mixedviT, magram isini mxolod Tqveni Cawerilia Tu nakrebia sxvadasxva Jurnalistis Canawerisa?
– mxolod Cemi Canawerebisa da niutonas dRiuris mixedviT, romelic Sedgenilia sxvadasxva jariskacis naambobisagan. maTi mixedviT davwere mxatvrul-dokumenturi moTxroba, romelic male wignadac gamova.
– mxolod afxazeTis omis msvlelobisas CawereT Tu ukve samSvidoboze gamosulic iwerdiT am dRiurisTvis jariskacebis naambobs?
– soxumSi rom Cavdiodi, Cveni maspinZlebi iyvnen sxvadasxva biWebi. erT-erT maTgans, marTlac, niutona erqva da dRiurebsac werda. marTlac, vexvewebodi, waekiTxebina CemTvis misi dRiuri, magram ar wamakiTxa. Semdeg niutona Tavis dRiurebianad afeTqda TviTmfrinavSi. es epizodi, cotaodeni cvlilebiT, Sesulia filmSi – TiTqos niutona dRiurs TviTmfrinavis trapidan ugdebs filmis mTavar gmirs, magram sinamdvileSi es dRiuri daiwva niutonasTan erTad babuSeras aeroportSi im dRes, roca Cven – me da Sorena lebaniZe ver avediT im TviTmfinavSi, romelic afeTqda. mere vcade, aRmedgina Cems warmosaxvaSi, rogor dRiurs dawerda niutona. me vismendi Cems Jurnalistur Canawerebs, romlebic mqonda Camotanili, mere damatebiT davdiodi Camosul jariskacebTanac da maTganac viwerdi naambobs. ase Seiqmna es dRiuri. . . nadeJda cirdavasTan saubris Canaweric gamoviyene filmis scenarisTvis, romelic, aseve, mxatvrul-dokumenturi prozaa. . .
– da Tqvens wignSia, albaT, Setanili esec.
– diax, da aseve Seva mesame moTxrobac – `mkvdari qalaqis Canawerebi~. es sami moTxroba dabeWda erT wignad bakur sulakauris gamocemam.
– Tqven xarT am filmis mTavari gmiris prototipi?
– filmis dasawyisSi weria, rom igi `Svidi dRis~ Jurnalistis lia toklikiSvilis omSi gancdilis mixedviTaa gadaRebuli. ese igi am filmSi Zalian bevri ram aris SeTxzuli. Zalian bevri epizodi realuria. romelia realuri da romeli – gamogonili, ar minda dakonkreteba, radgan es Cems pirad cxovrebas, konkretul adamianebs exeba. nu dagvaviwydeba, rom es aris filmi da filmebi arasdros zustad ar imeorebs adamianebis cxovrebas. es aris Cemi da nanas scenaris mixedviT gadaRebuli filmi. mTavari gmiri albaT ufro krebiTi saxea Jurnalistisa am omSi. Cemi Taobidan araerTi Jurnalisti yofila am omSi da yvelas gadagvxdenia erTmaneTis msgavsi Tavgadasavlebi. magaliTad, oCamCiris dacemis epizodi zustad isea gadmocemuli, rogorc Cven vnaxeT da rogorc gamovediT iqidan. . . diax, ramdenime epizodi pirdapir gvaqvs gameorebul-gadmoRebuli.
– Zalian simboluri da sagulisxmoa isic, rom filmSi swored afxazi Cadis keTilSobilur saqciels da ara qarTveli. aq stumar-maspinZeli maxsendeba, sadac, aseve, sxva erovnebis warmomadgeneli – qisti gamodis qarTvelis damcvelad. es idea saidan wamovida?
– daviwyoT iqidan, rom realuradac Zalian bevrma afxazma gadaarCina qarTvelebi, ise, rogorc Zalian bevrma qarTvelma gadaarCina afxazebi. Cven yovelTvis vyvebiT imaze, rom qarTvelma gadaarCina afxazi, yovelTvis amayebi varT imiT, rom qarTveli aris aseTi. . . marTlac, varT kargebi, magram, modiT, erTxel gavbedoT, vTqvaT, rom isic – Cveni mteric, zogjer aris kargi, manac Caidina erTxel, sadRac aseTi kargi saqcieli. ra ici, ra dividendi unda moipovo amiT. saerTod, saxalxo diplomatia amazea awyobili, mterTanac ki gamonaxo saerTo ena. . .
– filmSi nawyvetic ismis `balada vefxisa da moymisadan~. . . `iqneba vefxvis dedai Cemze mwareda stirisa, wavide, mec iq mivide, samZimar uTxra Wirisa~. . .
– diax, es leqsi xom qarTulia da qarTuli msoflmxedvelobaa masSi, ratom ar SeiZleba, rom axla, 21-e saukuneSi es msoflmxedveloba gavacocxloT, ratom ar SeiZleba, rom vifiqroT imaze, rom iqac, im adamianebisTvis, iqneb, samZimari gvaqvs saTqmeli? yovelTvis sxvas xom ar daelodebi… Cveni, qristianuli filosofiis principi ra aris? aRsarebis saTqmelad moZRvarTan rom midixar, Sens mosananiebels imitom xom ar inanieb, rom elodebi, sxvac moinaniebs. Sen xar Seni sulis winaSe pasuxismgebeli, am vertikalSi moZraob, rom Tqva, gauSva da iqidan miiRo raRac. zustad asevea am SemTxvevaSic. Sen rac gaqvs amosaTqmeli, unda amoTqva, amoiZaxo da pasuxs miiReb aucileblad zemodan.
– filmi Zalian Tbilad ambobs saTqmels, yvelafridan Cans, rom patiebisken wasvla Zalian rTulia, Tundac monazonTan scenaSi, sadac is ambobs, rom ver loculoben afxazebisTvis. . .
– diax, es Zalian rTulia, amas akeTeben mxolod gamorCeuli adamianebi. iciT, me getyviT Tqven, ram mibiZga, mefiqra afxazebze.
mibiZga iman, rom erTxel gavakeTe interviu guram odiSariasTan, romelmac miambo sruliad araCveulbrivi ambavi. mas hyavda megobari, afxazi mwerali daur naWyebia da rodesac guramma Tavisi cnobili `uReltexili~, romelSic tanjvis gza aris gadmocemuli, dawera, gaugzavna daurs soxumSi. iqamde gaigo, rom daurs qarTvelebma Zma moukles. mas iaraRi didxans ar auRia xelSi, mxolod Zmis sikvdilis Semdeg gaakeTa es, amis Semdeg iqca qarTvelebis mtrad, jariskacad, romelic Cven gvxocavda. guramma gabeda da miswera am adamians: – daur, mec mapatie. . . da me vifiqre, Tu guram odiSariam, romelmac dakarga yvelaferi – saxli, samSoblo, uaxloesi megobrebi, naTesavebi, gamoiara Wuberi tyviiT muxlSi. . . iciT, dRemde rogor mdgomareobaSia, Tu man SeZlo, rom piriqiT, aqeT eTxova patieba afxazisTvis, mtrisTvis, ratom ver unda SeZlos es sxvam. daurma upasuxa da isini Sexvdnen erTmaneTs. maT Soris gaiba megobroba, mere daweres saerTo romani, anu or adamians Soris aRdga urTierToba. ratom ar SeiZleba aseve, or jgufs, or xalxs Soris aRdges urTierToba? xalxebs xom sazogadoeba, sociumebi qmnis. ratom ar SeiZleba, am gziT wavideT da raRacebi erTmaneTTan vaRiaroT. modi, Cven daviwyoT da mere isini agvyvebian. oRond es araviTar SemTxvevaSi ar unda moxdes imis xarjze, rom davTmoT, an uari vTqvaT imaze, rac Cveni samSobloa. es xazia swored gatarebuli am filmSi – rusebi dganan da ar gviSveben, erTmaneTTan ar gviSveben, ara mxolod adamianebTan, aramed imasTan, rac Cemi samSobloa. . . amas akeTebs ara afxazi, aramed rusi. saqarTvelos vercerTma xelisuflebam ver SeZlo, xma miewvdina msofliosTvis verc maSin, verc mere, rom ukrainamde ruseTma saqarTvelo jijgna, ukrainaze ramdenjer patara qveyana… da Cven erTi weli gavuZeliT am oms. martoebma SevZeliT, erTi weli ar dagveTmo jer gagra da mere soxumi. es xom ar aris patara ram! filmSi animaciiTaa gamoxatuli, rogor ixocebian qarTveli jariskacebi yvelasgan mitovebulebi – generlebisgan, politikosebisgan, xelisuflebisgan, es iyo Cveni Taoba. .
-iyo Sercxvenis da gmirobis ambavi. . .
-erTdroulad iyvnen eseni narkomanebic, morodiorebic da gmirebic. . . aseTi jariskacebi hyavda qveyanas da aseTi jariskacebi ixocebodnen erTi saxlisa da erTi quCisaTvis brZolebSi, Cveulebrivi biWebi, romlebic SeiZleba sxva situaciaSi verc ki SegemCnia – arc sxvaze lamazebi, arc sxvaze ganaTlebulebi. . . SeiZleba zogierTs erTi leqsic ar hqonda wakiTxuli samSobloze, magram isini sxva TavganwirviT, sxva instinqtiT kvdebodnen. . . ar tovebdnen brZolis obieqts. . . magaliTad, miambes aseTi ambavi: erTi mesxi biWi, romelic imdenad SeumCneveli iyo jariskacebs Soris, misi saxeli da gvaric aravin icoda, iyo TavisTvis. rodesac gagra ecemoda, jariskacebi jer mosaxleobas uSvebdnen win, mere ki radgan veRar aswrebdnen gadasvlas, xidTan, mosaxvevSi gaCerda es mesxi biWi, metyviamfrqveve, sxvebs aniSna, rom ukan daexiaT da mTeli oci wuTis ganmavlobaSi SeaCera rusebi, raTa sxvebisTvis wasvlis saSualeba mieca, Tavad ki gmirulad mokvda. misi saxeli da gvari dRemde ar aris cnobili. ai, aseTi biWebi iyvnen! amazec aris es filmi, es filmi bevr ramezea, Cvens istoriazea, romelic ar unda daiviwyo da Jurnalistis profesiazec, romlebsac SegviZlia, gamorCeuli istoriebi davutovoT qveyanas. amas akeTebda Cveni gazeTi `Svidi dRe~ da es scenaric movida im publikaciebidan, romlebsac Cven vwerdiT. . . yvelaferzea es filmi, im Taobaze, im wlebzea, roca Cven viyaviT patara lizas tolebi da marTla ase, sarafnebiT, gavrbodiT cxel wertilebSi, vipranWebodiT, omi sxva ram gvegona, CavdiodiT iq da sikvdilis manqana gvxvdeboda. ai, ase, omma gvaswavla bevri ram.
– filmSi afxazs gamohyavs mTavari gmiri warTmeuli oCamCiridan, gadahyavs mdinareze, rogorc sazRvarze or mtrul mxares Soris, msgavsi istoriac marTla moxda Tu Tqven gamoigoneT?
– msgavsi, marTlac iyo, oRond sxva, samegrelos, omSi. Cven gadmovdiodiT mdinare cxeniswyalze, zviadistma jariskacebma migviyvanes mdinaris Suagulamde, sadac samTavrobo jariskacebi dagvxvdnen da gadmogviyvanes. maSin marTla kinaRam wamiRo wyalma, sicilic agvityda, sigaretebis gacvlac iyo, yvelaferi, rogorc filmSia. . . bevri ram iyo. . . es ambavi jer aseve Sevitane scenarSi, mere ki gadavakeTe afxazze, amitom winaistoriac movufiqreT, ase gamovida am personaJis ambavi.
– filmis gadaRebis ideac Tqveni iyo, iseve, rogorc scenaris?
– diax, nana janeliZe movZebne da mivwere, rom maqvs aseTi araCveulebrivi masalebi da aucileblad unda mivutano. maSin axlos ar vicnobdi. didi xalisiT ar damTanxmda, magram roca gavuziare Canafiqri da masalac wavakiTxe, masze Zalian imoqmeda guram odiSarias intervium, sadac gurami ambobs: `mec mapatie~… da mere Tqva: `maSin amifeTqda tvinSi~. . . ar dagaviwydeT, rom nana aris film `monaniebis~ Tanaavtori da mas aqvs bma im monaniebasTan, ramac marTla moaxdina gardatexa Tavis droze mTel TaobaSi. `monaniebaSic~ es aris – personaJi inaniebs, raTa daimsaxuros momavali, imisTvis, rom moxdes misi ganwmenda. sxvaTa Soris, nanas uTxra erTma misma megobarma: `Sen axla iReb `monanieba~ – 2-s.
– soxumSi Tu yofilxarT mas mere?
– ara! ramdenjerme mqonda Sansi, magram ar waval, ver waval me sxvis soxumSi. iq Zalian bevri Cemi megobari darCa, TviTon me soxumidan da oCamCiridan Zlivs gamovaswari. . . magram guram odiSariasTan intervius Semdeg, romelzec zemoT giTxariT, daviwye afxazebTan mimowera socqselSi, marTla vcade afxazebTan daaxloeba, afxazebis Canawerebis kiTxva daviwye. daviwye afxazebTan saubari, miwera, mowera da aRmoCnda, rom afxazebi piradSi yovelTvis mpasuxobdnen, miyvebodnen aTas ambavs, magram sajarod – ara. aravisTvis ar momiyolia es ambavi, Tqven geubnebiT pirvelad. `iare, liza~ aris pirveli filmi da pirveli kulturuli produqti, romelSic afxazebi iReben monawileobas. aq aris gamoyenebuli afxazuri dRiurebi – juma axubasi da taif ajbasi, isini piratulad ki ar wamogviRia, aramed – maTi ojaxebis TanxmobiT. juma axuba sanam mokvdeboda, man momca ufleba, rom qarTul filmSi yofiliyo misi, afxazi mwerlis dRiurebi! es xom Zalian mniSvnelovani ramaa.
– es pirdapiri kontaqtebiT moxda?
– diax, pirdapiri kontaqtebiT, radgan juma axuba iyo Zalian bevri qarTveli mwerlis megobari. omis periodSi, cnobili faqtia, igi mxedrionisgan daxvretas mweralma laSa TabukaSvilma gadaarCina. moaswro jumam imis Tqma, rom laSa TabukaSvilis megobaria. gadaurekes laSas, romelmac mxedrionelebs uTxra, me vjdebi manqanaSi, movdivar tyvarCelSi da jumas erTi Reri Tma rom hqondes Tavze Serxeuli, Sevakvdebi mag ambavso. ase gadaarCina. jumas Zalian uyvarda qarTvelebi. . . misi Svili ibrZoda am omSi qarTvelebis winaaRmdeg. . . Zalian tragikulia bevri afxazisTvis es omi, qarTvelebisTvis – TavisTavad. es yvelaferi Zalian mniSvnelovania, rom mxolod sakuTar ubedurebaSi ki ar vixarSoT bolomde, imaTTanac gadavixedoT – iq ra xdeboda da gaviazroT, rom Cven erTi samSoblo gvaqvs. veraviTar SemTxvevaSi ver daveTanxmebi vercerT afxazs, rom afxazeTi ar aris saqarTvelo, ise rogorc bevri namdvili afxazi dameTanxmeba imaSi, rom afxazeTi ar aris afxazis… magram ruseTma moaxerxa misi dasakuTreba. ai, es unda davinaxoT, gavacnobieroT da Tu Cven ar daviwyeT es, afxazi ver gaakeTebs, radgan cotani da absoluturad lokalizebulni, Caketilebi arian, informacia ar aqvT, saxelmwifo ar aqvT.
– bevrs eSinia, xmamaRla Tqvas, rom aqedan maTken Semxvedri nabijebis gadadgma saWiroa, anu arapopularulia is saTqmeli, rac am filmSia. . .
– herman hese ambobda: `novatoria is maimuni, romelic pirvelad Camovida xidan da gaiara miwaze, radgan dasabami misca adamianebis modgmas da is Tevzi, romelic gamovida wylidan da daiwyo sunTqva, riTac dasabami misca dedamiwaze cxovrebas. pirvelma raRac unda Tqva, raRac unda gaakeTo. Cven JurnalistikaSi amas sul vakeTebdiT da filmSi amis gadmotana da transformireba imitom aris Zalian kargi da mniSvnelovani, rom masStaburi produqtia, masStaburi xelovnebaa. amas naxaven adamianebi, es darCeba, Zalian bevri Taoba naxavs da Cven Tu ver movaswariT monanieba imisTvis, rom miviRoT amis Sedegad
samSoblo, isini gaakeTeben amas!
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