,,დამოუკიდებლობის აღდგენის დღიდან ჩვენ გაცხადებული გვაქვს ქვეყნის ევროპული კურსი”
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axali msoflio wesrigi dResdReobiT yvelaze aqtualuri sakiTxia. Rogorc cnobilia, yoveli omis Semdeg sxvadasxva faqtoris kvalobaze, myardeba axali globaluri wesrigi. mimdinare processac cxadia, zesaxelmwifoebi saTavisod gamoiyeneben, gaifarToeben gavlenis sferoebs patara qveynebis xarjze, rac araerTxel momxdara istoriis sxvadasxva etapze. vin arian msoflio politikis mTavari aqtorebi, rogori iqneba msoflios axali wesrigi, ra roli aqvT patara qveynebs am procesSi da ra fazaSia ruseT-ukrainis omi? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba bsu-is iuridiul da socialur mecnierebaTa fakultetis dekani, saerTaSoriso samarTlis specialisti levan jayeli.
– axali msoflio wesrigis molodinSi vxedavT, Tu rogor icvleba saerTaSoriso dRis wesrigi, umTavresad, ra ganapirobebs amas?
– msoflios dRis wesrigis formireba dawyebulia mas Semdeg, rac sabWoTa kavSiri daiSala da orpolusiani msoflio mravalpolusiani gaxda. axla isev midis brZola, rom msoflio gaxdes erT an orpolusiani, magram msoflioSi kapitali ise asimetriulad ganawilda, rom raimes prognozireba, Tu rogor ganviTardeba movlenebi, SeuZlebelia. samwuxaroa, rom msofliom ver SeZlo axali msoflio wesrigis mSvidobiani gziT damyareba.
– faqtia, saerTaSoriso organizaciebi ver asruleben TavianT funqcias, Tundac – gaero. ramdenad SesaZlebelia maTi modernizeba?
– mimaCnia, rom gaeros instituciebi CamoSorda realobas. imdenad formalizebuli gaxda misi muSaoba, rom politikuri mniSvnelobis sakiTxebs (misi wesdebis safuZvelze) veRar wyvets. aSkaraa, rom gaero, am axali wesrigis pirobebSi, ver arTmevs Tavs masze dakisrebul movaleobas, Tumca sxva alternativa amJamad msoflioSi ar aris. vidre axali wesebi ar iqneba SemuSavebuli, gaero agrZelebs am mcdelobas, magram verc reformireba uSvelis, axal saerTaSoriso organizaciaze unda gakeTdes aqcenti.
– rogorc cnobilia, gaerom meore msoflio omis Semdeg, garkveulwilad, uzrunvelyo msoflioSi mSvidoba. ras fiqrobT?
– meore msoflio omis Semdeg msoflio wesrigma amowura Tavisi resursi, axla axali aqtorebi hyavs msoflios. ekonomikuri kapitalis gadanawilebis Sedegad Camoyalibda axali aqtorebi, romlebic axal dakveTas aZleven msoflios, xalxs. daakvirdiT migraciul ekonomikur zrdas calkeul qveynebSi, aseve, aRsaniSnavia imperialisturi zraxvebis ganxorcielebis mcdelobebi, vgulisxmob ruseTs. faqti erTia, is, ra moTxovnac iyo meore msoflio omis Semdeg, Sesrulda da amoiwura, Sesabamisad, axali realoba, axali moTxovnebi gaCnda da saWiroa axali msoflio SeTanxmeba.
– am mimarTebiT axali meqanizmebis mofiqrebaze, upiratesad, vin, sad da rogor unda ifiqros?
– amaze izruneben rogorc gamarjvebuli, ise damarcxebuli, gamofituli saxelmwifoebis liderebi, romlebic mivlen im kondiciamde, rom brZolas da oms azri ar aqvs. Tuki meore msoflio omis dros gamarjvebuli gamoikveTa, am SemTxvevaSi, gavbedav da gavakeTeb prognozs, rom mkafio gamarjvebuli aravin iqneba, mxareebi iZulebuli iqnebian, erTmaneTs moelaparakon da SeTanxmdnen.
– romeli saxelmwifoebi dominireben am mxriv, anu vin arian msoflio politikis mTavari aqtorebi?
– umTavresad es amerikis SeerTebuli Statebia, CineTi – Tavisi potencialiT, frTxili politikiT da ekonomikuri strategiiT, ruseTi – Tavisi xisti politikiT, romelsac ar surs, daxarjos fuli Tavisi gavlenis gasafarToeblad, samagierod, aqvs iafi samxedro da adamianuri resursebi, romliTac cdilobs miaRwios imas, rac asjer, aTasjer Zviri ujdeba aSS-s igive miznebisTvis, ruseTi amas akeTebs SeiaraRebuli ZalebiT.
– rogoria patara qveynebis roli da adgili saerTaSoriso dRis wesrigSi?
– perspeqtiva iseTia, rom patara qveynebs aucileblad mouwevT arCevanis gakeTeba, Tu visTan iTanamSromleben da visi usafrTxoebis qolgis qveS iqnebian. realoba axla iseTia, rom arsebuli saxelmwifoebidan xval da zeg vin darCeba gavlenis mqone, ucnobia, imitom, rom resursebisgan dacla xdeba anu omebi, konfliqtebi. magaliTad, aSS ruseT-ukrianis omSi uSualod ar monawileobs, magram mimdinareobs misi ekonomikis gamofitva, amas ramdenad aitans amerikis moqalaqe, kidev sxva sakiTxia. SeiZleba erT mSvenier dRes amerikelma moqalaqem es yovelive gaaprotestos da arCevnebSi moqmedi prezidentis winaaRmdeg misces xma.
– sxvaTa Soris, donald trampi am viTarebas kargad iyenebs da prezident baidens mkacrad akritikebs. . .
– diax, trampi mTel saarCevno kampanias amaze afuZnebs. SesaZloa, amerikam izolirebuli politika gaataros.
– bevri eqsperti Tvlis, rom Tu aSS izolirebul politikas gaatarebs, es misTvis savalalo aRmoCndeba grZelvadian periodSi. . .
– namdvilad damRupveli iqneba amerikisTvis izolirebuli politika imitom, rom Sida usafrTxoebas, Tavis ekonomikur stabilurobas uzrunvelyofs swored gare strategiuli interesebis dakmayofilebiT. rogorc ki aSS gare perimetrze Seamcirebs an Sewyvets usafrTxoebisTvis zrunvas, gare mtrebi mis walekvas SeZleben.
– am etapze, saqarTvelosTvis evrokavSirsa da natoSi integraciis mniSvnelobasa da aqtivobaze ra SeiZleba iTqvas?
– saerTod, integraciis sakiTxi yvela epoqis interesi da amocanaa. saqarTvelom istoriulad aCvena, rom mas marto, avtonomiurad, damoukideblad, xangrZlivad ganviTareba ar SeuZlia. Cven davamtkiceT, rom arseboba SegviZlia, magram ganviTareba, rac msoflio civilizaciasTan integraciaSi Segviwyobs xels, ar dadasturda, amitomac gvWirdeba mWidro saerTaSoriso kavSirebi, TanamSromloba, mogviwevs dabalanseba evropas, dasavleTs, ruseTsa da azias Soris, aq Cven Zalian didi sifrTxile gvmarTebs. bolo periodSi Cven es kargad gamogvdis, Tumca vfiqrob, rom es Zalisxmeva, samwuxarod, sakmarisi ar iqneba da momavalSi ufro frTxili da kargad Sefasebuli moqmedeba dagvWirdeba.
– kandidatis statusTan mimarTebiT evrokomisiis dadebiTi daskvna ramdenad mniSvnelovania Cveni qveynisTvis?
– Cven, qarTveli xalxi amisTvis vibrZodiT, qarTul saxelmwifosac surda es, damoukideblobis aRdgenis dRidan gacxadebuli gvaqvs Cveni evropuli kursi, konstituciuradac gaformebulia Cveni dasavluri veqtori, magram mivaRwieT im kondicias, roca kandidatis statusis moniWeba ufro evropelebisTvisaa mniSvnelovani, vidre CvenTvis imitom, rom Zalian gawbilebul xalxs martivad SeuZlia arCevani Secvalos, anu evropaze uari Tqvas, radgan bevrjer miviReT uari dasavleTisgan da SeiZleba daiRalos xalxi am molodiniT. amitom evrokomisiam es yovelive gaiTvaliswina da saqarTvelos mimarT dadebiTi daskvna dado.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, rom evrokomisiis mizania saqarTvelos evrokavSirSi xilva. . .
– nu daviyvanT Cvens perspeqtivebs calkeuli, Tundac maRali Tanamdebobis pirebis sityvier gancxadebebamde. erTia gancxadeba politikuri, meore – misi aRsruleba da bolomde miyvana. Aamitom pragmatulebi unda viyoT da realurad SevafasoT, sad iqneba Cveni adgili organulad da ara -formalurad.
– axlovdeba vaSingtonis natos samiti, ramdenad mosalodnelia saqarTvelos mapi mianiWon?
– ara mgonia, am mxriv raime qmediTi Zvrebi iyos frontis gasaxsnelad, es arc saqarTvelos awyobs, arc amerikas da arc ruseTs. am SemTxvevaSi, seriozuli Zvrebi ar iqneba, politikuri gancxadebebiT Semoifarglebian, ityvian, rom natos kari Riaa saqarTvelosTvis da ase Semdeg.
– saerTaSoriso dRis wesrigSi Cveni adgili rom davimkvidroT, ra unda gavakeToT?
– Cven aucileblad unda viyoT axali msoflio wesrigis inicirebis flagmani, Cveni roli unda SevasruloT axali msoflio wesrigis damyarebaSi axali SeTanxmebis xelmosawerad. unda miviRoT usafrTxoebis, Cveni teritoriuli mTlianobis, damoukideblobis garantiebi. am procesebs ar unda CamovrCeT da ar unda davelodoT, Tu rogor SeTanxmdebian amerika, ruseTi, CineTi, aqeT arabuli samyaro da evrokavSiri. Cven aucileblad unda viyoT axal msoflio wesrigze saubris iniciatorebi, rom CvenisTana patara da geostrategiulad mniSvnelovanma qveyanam miiRos arsebobis garantia, diax, sworedac saerTaSoriso procesebSi Seuferxeblad monawileobis garantia.
– gverds ver avuvliT ukrainis oms, omis ra fazaa amJamad iq?
– axla omis pikis momentia, verc ruseTi axerxebs omSi gardatexis Setanas, is afiqsirebs, rom Tavisi mizani Seasrula, rom garda mciredi nawilisa, gasakeTebeli araferi darCa, rac absurdia. amas ver gaviziareb da ara mgonia, moiZebnos eqsperti, romelic ityvis, rom ruseTma Tavisi miznebi 100 procentiT Seasrula ukrainaSi. Cemi azriT, ruseTi daicala resursisgan, am wuTSi is iyenebs iaraRs, romelsac yoveldRiurad amzadebs, vgulisxmob iseT iaraRs, romelsac raRac gavlenis moxdena SeuZlia sabrZolo velze, anu balistikur raketebs, es ukrainas daaxevinebs ukan. ruseTs im raodenobis iaraRi ar aqvs, rasac omSi gardatexis Setana SeuZlia, mas aseTi iaraRi rom hqondes, aucileblad gamoiyenebda.
– F 16-is gamoCena ukrainis armiaSi ramdenad Secvlis omis mimdinareobas ukrainelTa sasargeblod?
– F 16-is axla gamoCenas ukrainaSi, cxadia, gavlenis moxdena SeuZlia, magram gamoCndeba maSin, roca garkveuli mdgradoba iqneba miRweuli da mis gamoyenebas didi mniSvneloba ar mieniWeba. am droisTvis ruseTic moimaragebs garkveul iaraRs, kremlic xom informirebulia, F 16-ebi rom unda gamoCndes ukrainaSi, amitom ruseTi moemzadeba am mimarTebiT, Tanac nakleb savaraudoa, ukrainam im raodenobiT miiRos F 16-ebi, rom sabrZolo amocanebi uklebliv Seasrulos.
– Tqveni azriT, xom ar cdilobs dasavleTi ukrainaze zemoqmedebas, rom mSvidobis nacvlad garkveuli teritoriebi daTmos?
– sul male daiwyeba msjeloba – ra aris wageba da ra aris mogeba? daiwyeben imis dasabuTebas, rom es wageba ar aris, am teritoriebiT ukraina gadarCa, rogorc saxelmwifo, aseve daiwyebs saubars ruseTic, rom mas mTeli ukrainis ganadgurebis mizani ar hqonia arasdros, mas undoda misi mosaxleobis dacva am teritoriebze, ai, am notaze miusxdebian savaraudod, molaparakebebis magidas. kidev erTxel gavimeoreb, ukrainas danebebis ufleba ar aqvs imitom, rom ruseTi aucileblad gadava gamalebul SeiraRebaze, daagrovebs iaraRs da isev gaagrZelebs agresiul mcdelobebs am qveynis mimarT.
– dasavleTma ra unda moimoqmedos am mxriv?
– Cemi azriT, dasavleTma unda gaagrZelos ruseTis demokratiuli Zalebis dafinanseba da misi formirebisTvis brZola, ruseTs unda agrZnobinos, rom samxedro ZaliT politikuri miznebis ganxorcieleba rogorc qveynis SigniT, ise saxelmwifos gareT, saerTaSoriso arenaze miuRebeli da arafrismomtania, garda krizisisa da damarcxebisa.
– dabolos, dawesebuli sanqciebi am TvalsazrisiT ramdenad mniSvnelovania?
– am kiTxvaze martivi pasuxi maqvs: rom ara sanqciebi, maS ra? es erTaderTi alternativaa ruseTTan dakavSirebiT, sanqciebma garkveul mizans miaRwia. aTwleulebma aCvena, rom ruseTTan molaparakebas da SeTanxmebas azri ar aqvs. ganmeorebiT aRvniSnav, rom ruseTis mimarT ekonomikuri sanqciebis gagrZelebiT SesaZlebelia misi dayvana srul demokratizaciamde. msoflioSi maSin SeiZleba daisadguros mSvidobam, mxolod amis Semdeg warmatebiT aviTvisebT kosmoss da adamianis uflebebzec mSvidad visaubrebT.