“დღეს ქვეყანას სჭირდება პატიოსანი პოლიტიკოსები”
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
dRes iwereba momavali Cveni qveynisa, romelSic mogviwevs cxovreba da ra Tqma unda, es xvalindeli dRe sasikeTod rom gagviTendes, zrunva amTaviTvea saWiro yvelasgan, upirvelesad ki politikur velze moTamaSe subieqtebisgan. partiebi TamaSis axal wesebze erTvebian, sayuradRebo movlenebi viTardeba araerT politikur jgufSi, `nacmoZraobaSi~ urTierTdapirispirebebs ki araerTgvarovani Sefasebebi mohyva. mainc, ra xdeba da ras unda velodoT momavalSi, raa saWiro, rom qveyana sasurvel relsebze gadaerTos? amis Taobaze Tvalsazriss `nacionaluri moZraobis~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi yofili lideri mirdat qamadaZe gviziarebs.
– batono mirdat, enm-Si ganviTarebul movlenebze ras ityviT?
– sazogadoebis im nawilma, romelsac ainteresebs da romelic Tval-yurs adevnebda erTi wlis ganmavlobaSi am partiaSi ganviTarebul movlenebs, mgoni, dainaxa, rac xdeboda, ras vemijnebodiT da ra iyo partiisadmi Cveni moTxovna. Cven vacxadebdiT, rom ar SeiZleba amomrCevlis motyueba, rom politikaSi sityvas fasi unda hqondes, politika unda iyos sajaro. umTavresi pretenzia iyo isic, rom partiaSi araformaluri mmarTvelobis stili da forma Semodioda. SeiZleba `nacmoZraobas~ bevri ram daabralos adamianma, magram araformalur mmarTvelobas veravin daabralebda. partias es saSiSroeba rom daemuqra, amaze daviwyeT xmamaRla da sajarod saubari. samwuxarod, partiaSi daiwyo gansxvavebuli azris devna.
– ras gulisxmobT?
– vgulisxmob Tundac baTumis faqts, rodesac sakrebulos siidan partiis axalma menejmentma (saerTod aravin araferi vicodiT) amoiRo levan gorgilaZe, eliza efaZe, Sorena abaSiZe. . . levan gorgilaZe sakrebulos wevri ar aris swored imis gamo, rom is siidan amoiRes, amoiRes martis movlenebis dros, roca rusTavelis gamzirze rusuli kanonis winaaRmdeg brZola midioda. levan gorgilaZe am aqciaze gaziT moiwamla, Turme im dReebSi partiis axal Tavmjdomares werili gaugzavnia ceskoSi da uTqvams, es pirovnebebi (zemoT aRniSnuli) siidan amoiReTo. aseTma usamarTlobam sabolood migviyvana partiis datovebis gadawyvetilebamde.
– `nacmoZraobaSi~ rodis gaxda araformaluri mmarTveloba TvalSisacemi?
– araformaluri mmarTveloba TvalSisacemia gasuli wlidan, roca axal Tavmjdomared levan xabeiSvili airCies. igrZnoboda im adamianebis uxilavi xeli, romlebic amomrCevels ar unaxavs wlebis ganmavlobaSi sajaro sivrceSi, magram cdiloben, mTavar opoziciur partiaSi TavianTi dRis wesrigi Seqmnan. es xom biZina ivaniSvilis mmarTvelobis stilisgan arafriT gansxvavdeba? Cvenc rom SevxedoT, biZina ivaniSvili arsad Cans. ,,qarTuli ocnebis~ warmomadgenlebi acxadeben, rom is politikaSi ar aris, magram eWvi aravis epareba, yvela mniSvnelovan gadawyvetilebas biZina ivaniSvili iRebs. analogiuri ram daiwyo, `nacmoZraobaSic~, vxedavT ramdenime adamians.
– vin arian es adamianebi?
– araerTxel gvisaubria maTze, me wamovedi am partiidan da aRar minda saubari am sakiTxze. isini, sazogadoebisTvis kargad arian cnobili warsulidan. bolo wlebis ganmavlobaSi es adamianebi brZolis wina xazze, politikaSi aravis unaxavs, magram partiaSi gadawyvetilebebis absolutur umravlesobas iReben, maT Sorisaa levan gorgilaZisa da Cveni megobrebis siidan amoRebac. darwmunebuli var, es gadawyvetileba levan xabeiSvils ar miuRia, mas ukarnaxes da, ubralod, Seasrula.
– ZiriTadad, ra gaxda nika meliasa da axali Tavmjdomaris dapirispirebis mizezi?
– axal TavmjdomaresTan dapirispireba arafer SuaSia, zustad is araformaluri mmarTvelebi iyvnen dainteresebuli nika meliaTi, surdaT, partiaSi moewyoT gadatrialeba, Tan im fonze, roca xedavdnen, mixeil saakaSvili ra mdgomareobaSic iyo. hoda, CaTvales, rom es aris xelsayreli momenti da Sedegic miiRes. Tan kampaniac rogor awarmoes! mTeli maTi kampania yalb emociaze iyo agebuli, xalxs hpirdebodnen saakaSvilis gamoxsnas, rac imTaviTve Canda, rom tyuili iyo. dRes amomrCevlis didi nawili kiTxvas usvams levan xabeiSvils, ratom ar aris Tavisufali saakaSvili? sad aris uwyveti saprotesto aqciebi? politikaSi gacemuli dapirebis Sesrulebaze pasuxs rom mogTxovs Seni amomrCeveli, es xom cxadze ucxadesia, magram pasuxis moTxovna ar undaT imitom, rom, realurad, pasuxismgebloba axal Tavmjdomares ar auRia, anu gadawyvetilebebis mimRebi ar aris.
– amboben, TiTqos Tqven da Tqvenma Tanapartielebma enm imitom datoveT, rom saarCevno siaSi axali menejmenti ar SegiyvandaT.
– simarTle giTxraT, es ar gamigia, aq siaSi Seyvana-arSeyvanis sakiTxi ar aris mniSvnelovani. Cven ar vyofilvarT siaSi, magram vyofilvarT brZolis wina xazze. am brZolaSi imitom varT, rom Sedegi davdoT, anu ,,qarTuli ocneba~ arCevnebSi damarcxdes. amas sWirdeba grZelvadiani, gaTvlili politika da Tu xedav, rom gadawyvetilebis miRebis stiliT, qmedebiT, ,,qarTuli ocnebisgan~ `nacmoZraoba~ aRar gansxvavdeba, Sesabamisad, maTTan saerTo ra gvaqvs? maSin gamodis, mTavari amocana yofila raRac komforti, opoziciSi yofna. politikaSi imitom var, rom minda Sedegi daidos, am qveyanaSi adamianebma bednierad icxovron. amas sWirdeba organizeba, samarTliani TamaSis wesebi da Tu Cven SevqmniT da ganvaxorcielebT qveyanaSi samarTliani TamaSis wesebs, am wesebze maRla ki politikuri wonisa Tu gavlenis miuxedavad veravin dadgeba, maSin aris garantia, rom qveyana gaxdes mdidari. me amisTvis vibrZvi. es aris Cemi mizani politikaSi.
– sxvaTa Soris, amaswinaT ,,tv pirvelTan~ interviuSi ana wiTliZem ganacxada, rom melia jer kidev erTi wlis win daemuqra Tanapartielebs `nacmoZraobis~ daSliT, xabeiSvilis partiis Tavmjdomared arCevis gamo. . .
– es gancxadeba mec movismene. ana wiTliZe ase imitom ambobs, rom, rogorc mas warmoudgenia, erTi da ori adamiani iRebs sadRac gadawyvetilebebs da mere viRacebi amas asruleben, rac Cvens SemTxvevaSi gamoricxulia. mTelma sazogadoebam naxa, rom am procesSi gadawyvetilebebs marTla individualurad viRebT adamianebi, es igrZnoboda. . . me da nika melia ar varT bavSvobis megobrebi, partiaSi gavicaniT erTmaneTi da iq Camogviyalibda TanamSrobloba, Cveni erTad dgoma ganapiroba ideurma Tanxvedram. es iseTi mniSvnelovani brZolaa, romelSic adamianebma individualurad unda miiRon gadawyvetileba, anu visac gacnobierebuli aqvs, Tu ra brZolaSi Semodis. swored am adamianebTan erToba mimaCnia gamarjvebis sawindrad. amitom ver daveTanxmebi ana wiTliZes. CvenTan gadawyvetilebebi sxva wesiT miiReba – gadawyvetilebis miRebaSi amomrCeveli maqsimalurad unda iyos CarTuli.
– rogorc gaJRerda, axal partias CamoayalibebT. am mxriv, ra SegiZliaT TqvaT, vis moiazrebT partniorebad?
– vambobdiT, rom partia arasdros yofila idea, idea es aris konkretuli saqme da partia, am SemTxvevaSi aris instrumenti, romelic am ideis ganxorcielebisTvis unda gamoviyenoT. rac Seexeba partniorebs, anu vin iqnebian partiaSi, modiT, am etapze, saxelebis dakonkretebisgan Tavi SevikavoT. yvelaze mniSvnelovani, rac unda icodes Cvenma amomrCevelma is aris, rom am axal platformaze Tavs moiyrian is adamianebi, romlebic damoukidebelad iReben gadawyvetilebas, ician, politikaSi ratomac movidnen, anu sjeraT da gaazrebuli aqvT, – am qveyanas ra sWirdeba ukeTesi momavlisTvis.
– opoziciur flangze vxedavT garkveul gadaadgilebebs. . .
– dRes opoziciur velze didi duRilis procesia, ,,nacmoZraobaSi~ ganviTarebuli movlenebi, bunebrivia, am procesis erT-erTi Semadgeneli nawilia. mgonia, rom es duRilis procesi raRac drois Semdeg dasruldeba. qarTul prodasavlur opoziciur velze aris SesaZlebloba, rom am duRilis dasrulebis Semdeg saintereso konfiguracia dalagdes.
– ,,nacmoZraobidan~ nika melias gundis wasvla ramdenad daazaralebs am partias?
– cxadia, daazaralebs ara mxolod ,,nacionalur moZraobas~, aramed prodasavlur opoziciur velze qmnis problemebs,.Sesabamisad, gvinda, rom amas daesvas wertili. Cven am partiis Sida sakiTxebi aRar gvainteresebs. Cemi mTavari amocanaa, saboloo jamSi, opoziciam konkretuli sakiTxebis gadasawyvetad sworad, SeTanxmebulad, organizebulad imoqmedos. aRsaniSnavia, rom nika melia erT-erTi yvelaze gamokveTili da reitinguli figuraa prodasavlur opoziciur velze da, cxadia, partia, saidanac aseTi adamiani midis, dazaraldeba.
– moqmed politikur Zalebs Soris Tu xedavT iseTs, romelsac Seswevs unari mesame Zalad mogvevlinos?
– samwuxarod, qarTul politikaSi Sinaarsisgan daclil sityvebs eniWeba mniSvneloba da amis ataceba xdeba socialur qselSi, mediaSi, rom mesame Zala modis, magram es Zala raRac Sinaarss xom unda Seicavdes? amitom ar minda aseTi sityvebis raxaruxi, me vambob, rac minda politikaSi da, saerTod, politikaSi iqneba mesame Zala, pirveli Tu meCvidmete, es gadawyvitos amomrCevelma. dRes qveyanas sWirdeba patiosani politikosebi, sityvis adamianebi, romlTa mTavari amocanaa ideisTvis, am qveynis ukeTesi momavlisTvis brZola.
– saparlamento arCevnebi kvlav urTierTdapirispirebis fonze Caivlis?
– saparlamento arCevnebi, didi albaTobiT, dapirispirebis fonze Caivlis. amJamindeli mmarTveli partia arCevnebs ase atarebs, magram Cemi survilia da maqsimalurad SevecdebiT, rom arCevnebma sxva formatSi Caiaros, sazogadoebisTvis momavalze gasagebi mesijebis miwodebiT. mmarTveli partiis mizani iqneba dapirispireba, sazogadoebis dayofa imitom, rom polarizaciaze dgas `qarTuli ocneba~. Cven Tu SevZlebT, maT propagandas ar avyveT da Cveni dRis wesrigi SevTavazoT amomrCevels, maSin mmarTvelma gundma ra talaxic ar unda isrolos, aridebuli iqneba.
– eqspertebi acxadeben, rom opozicia ver qmnis dRis wesrigs. ra aris amis mizezi?
– diax, opozicia ver qmnis dRis wesrigs imitom, rom jer Tavad ar aris Camoyalibebuli – ra unda. Tu Sen (Cems yofil partiaze vambob) mTavar saarCevno dapirebis sloganad gaqvs Rirseuli sibere da pensia 600 lari, es mianiSnebs, rom populizmis garda yovelgvari racionalizmisgan daclilia es mesiji da brZolac marcxisTvis aris ganwiruli imitom, rom 600-lariani pensia rogorc ki daisaxa mTavarma opoziciurma Zalam, mesame ambiciis mqone partiam aTasi lari pensia gaaJRera. msgavsi dapirebebi mmarTvel partiasac aqvs. aqedan gamomdinare, opoziciam taqtika unda Secvalos da populistur dapirispirebebs Tavi daanebos, Tu surs arCevnebSi gamarjveba. strategia unda Seicvalos, ivaniSvils unda ebrZolo im iaraRiT, rac ar aqvs, maT xelSi ki arasdros yofila simarTlis iaraRi, Sen moraluri upiratesoba unda gqondes, xalxma unda daijeros, rom gulwrfeli xar. pirvel rigSi, mTavaria samarTliani TamaSis wesebi, Tavisufali marTlmsajuleba, Zalauflebis decentralizacia, rac avtomaturad Zlieri saxelmwifos qvakuTxedia.
– unda velodoT Tu ara 2024 wlis saparlamento arCevnebSi koaliciuri mTavrobis Seqmnas?
– Tu opozicia droze ar Camoyalibdeba da ver gadadgams qmediT nabijebs, koaliciuri mTavrobis Seqmnis albaToba iklebs, magram am qveyanaSi opoziciurad ganwyobili amomrCevli aris gacilebiT meti, vidre `qarTuli ocnebis~ momxre. opozicia ver axerxebs opoziciuri amomrCevlis mobilizebas imitom, rom ver Tanxmdebian bevr rameSi. mmarTvel gunds aqvs SesaZlebloba resursiT, sus-iT, mosyidviT Tavisi momxreebis organizebis da arCevnebze miyvanis. Sesabamisad, Cven maqsimalurad unda gavakeToT yvelaferi imisTvis, rom opoziciurad ganwyobili amomrCeveli mivides saarCevno ubanze, raTa opoziciuri xmebi ar daikargos.
– dabolos, momavali arCevnebi ramdenad gadawyvets qveynis beds evrointegraciis gzaze?
– 2024 wlis arCevnebi umniSvnelovanesi iqneba saqarTvelosTvis. Cven vxedavT Cvens regionSi ra xdeba, dawyebuli somxeT-azerbaijanis konfliqtiT (romelic gadawyda ise, rogorc gadawyda), gagrZelebuli ukrainiT. didi geopolitikuri procesebi mimdinareobs irgvliv, Sesabamisad, es arCevnebi udidesi mniSvnelobis iqneba, am arCevnebma SeiZleba gansazRvros am qveynis bedi – iqneba Tu ara aq belarusia. didi imedi maqvs, rom kandidatis statuss miviRebT, Tumca unda gvesmodes, rom am statuss Cven viRebT geopolitikuri viTarebidan gamomdinare, magram saboloo mizani xom evrokavSiris wevrobaa. darwmunebuli var, es qveyana verasodes gaxdeba evrokavSiris wevri, Tu mas eyoleba dasanqcirebuli mosamarTleebi. Tu sistema ar Seicvala, am qveynas araferi eSveleba,samwuxarod, mmarTveli partia ar aanonsebs am sistemis Secvlis aucileblobas, arada, aucileblia. amitom opoziciam droze unda gansazRvros qveynisTvis mniSvnelovani sakiTxebi, rogorebicaa Zalauflebis decentralizacia, samarTliani arCevnebi, dabali gadasaxadebi da a.S. Tu opozicia am sakiTxebze SeTanxmebas SeZlebs, amomrCevlebSi gaCndeba imedi, rom adamianebs SeuZliaT TanamSromloba da arCevnebze xmas maT miscems. viRacas eSinia cvlilebis, Tu is bundovania. am bundovanebam SeiZleba, ufro uaresi viTareba Seqmnas. amitom opoziciam amomrCeveli unda daarwmunos cvlilebebis sikeTeSi. darwmunebuli var, cvlilebebi drois moTxovnaa, transformacia, gadawyoba miznisTvis qveyanas aaRorZinebs.