გამოწვევების პირისპირ
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTvelo, Tavisi damoukideblobis am periodSi, SeiZleba iTqvas, saintereso procesSia: dasavleTTan daaxloebis TvalsazrisiT Cveni qveynis winaSe SesaZleblobebis fanjara ixsneba, evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusis moniWeba amis TvalsaCino magaliTia, xolo saparlamento arCevnebi erTgvari barometri iqneba – saqarTvelos an daaaxloebs dasavleTTan, an antidemokratiuli qveynebis siaSi aRmoCndeba, rac gaTviTcnobierebuli aqvT rogorc xelisuflebas, aseve opozicias. rogorc acxadeben, yvelafers gaakeTeben, rom arCevnebi evropuli standartebiT Catardes. aRsaniSnavia isic, rom SesaZleblobebTan erTad gamowvevebic vlindeba ara mxolod ruseTis mxridan, aramed saSinao politikis kuTxiTac – urTierTdapirispireba politikosebs Soris, polarizacia. . . SeiZleba Tamamad iTqvas, rom araoficialurad saarCevno kampania mimdinareobs. ra mdgomareobaa axla qveyanaSi, ras unda velodoT, realurad vis ra Sansi aqvs saarCevnod? amis Taobaze `strategia aRmaSeneblis~ aWaris organizaciis lider beqa diasamiZes vesaubreT.
– qveyanaSi saintereso politikuri procesebi viTardeba. . . daviwyoT umTavresiT, ratom daubrunda ivaniSvili politikas?
– ivaniSvilis politikaSi „dabruneba“ imis maniSnebelia, rom mas SiSi aqvs. aRarafers vambob Sidapartiul dapirispirebasa da korufciaze, razec man Tavad isaubra. Cemi azriT, daumZimdaT dasavleTis politikur wreebTan urTierToba da SesaZloa, kremlSi misi mfarvelebisganac aRar modiodes iseTi keTilganwyoba, rogorc es adre iyo.
– eqspertTa nawili ar gamoricxavs, rom ivaniSvilma mmarTvel partiaSi garkveuli wmenda ganaxorcielos, ras fiqrobT?
– namdvilad ar unda gamovricxoT. SemTxveviTi ar iyo wesdebiT sapatio Tavmjdomaris postis SemoReba, romelsac premieris kandidaturis dasaxeleba SeuZlia. amiT „qarTul ocnebaSi“ dapirispirebul mxareebs uTxra, rom qveynis marTvis berketebi isev mis xelSia da maTi mxridan ar moiTmens Tundac umniSvnelo TviTnebobas.
– mTavrobaSi cvlilebebi igegmeba – gavrcelebuli informaciiT RaribaSvils irakli kobaxiZe Secvlis, Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– es arafers Secvlis. vfiqrob, ivaniSvili, am etapze, jer kidev dakvirvebis procesSia, rac mas yvelaze kargad gamosdis. Tu aqamde informacia mis yuramde mxolod 3 kacis piriT aRwevda, axla, roca kvlav sajarod „gamoCnda“, meti komunikaciis SesaZleblobas miscems gundis danarCen wevrebs, raTa Tavisi saTqmeli uSualod mas uTxran da ara Suamavlis meSveobiT.
partiaSi misi SiSi rom hqondeT, ivaniSvils aucileblad mouwevda viRacis dasja.
– sxvaTa Soris, eqspertebi acxadeben, rom ivaniSvilis politikaSi dabruneba mmarTveli partiis reitings gazrdis, rasac opozicia saTanadod ver aanalizebs. . .
– amisTvis mas bevrad meti Zalisxmeva dasWirdeba, vidre ubralod, `dabrunebaa~, didi imedgacruebaa xalxSi mTavrobis uniaTobis da qveyanaSi uperspeqtivobis gancdis gamo.
– urTierTbraldebebi qarTul politikaSi araxalia, mmarTveli partia opozicias qveynis destabilizaciaSi adanaSaulebs. ramdenad safuZvliania maTi gancxadebebi am mimarTebiT?
– Tu vinme destabilizacias awyobs qveyanaSi, es mmarTveli Zalaa. sabotaJs rom uwyob sakuTari qmedebebiT da polarizaciis politikiT qveynis evropul momavals, romelsac Seni moqalaqeebis 90% uWers mxars, sxva ra unda davarqvaT aseT nabijs, provokaciisa da destabilizaciis garda.
– rogorc cnobilia, Tqvenma partiam da `nacmoZraobam~ platforma SeqmeniT. ras ityviT amis Sesaxeb?
– Zalian mniSvnelovania, prorusul Zalas – „qarTul ocnebas“ arCevnebze dasavluri Rirebulebebis matarebeli politikuri Zalebis erToba davupirispiroT. 2024 weli mxolod morigi arCevnebis weli ar aris. saqarTvelos moqalaqeebma unda miiRon istoriuli gadawyvetileba – mxars dauWeren imas, rom Cveni qveyana kvlav darCes ruseTis ukana ezod (sadamdec ivaniSvilma migviyvana), Tu saqarTvelo progresuli demokratiuli civilizaciis sruluflebiani nawili gaxdes, gawevriandes evrokavSirsa da natoSi.
– sxvaTa Soris, mmarTveli partiis wevrebis gancxadebiT, `strategia aRmaSenebeli~ imitom daukavSirda `nacmoZraobas~, rom calke ver gadalaxavda bariers. . .
– Tu saqarTvelos uaxloes istorias gadavxedavT, jer arcerTi politikuri Zala xelisuflebaSi politikuri gaerTianebis gareSe ar mosula. Tavad `qarTulma ocnebam~ 2012 wels parlamentSi umravlesoba 6 partiasTan koaliciiT moipova. ase rom, aq arabunebrivi araferia. samwuxarod, mmarTvel Zalas daaviwyda sakuTari warsuli da Zveli TanamebrZoli partiebic.
– nika meliam axali partiis Seqmna daaanonsa, ra perspeqtiva eqneba mas?
– opoziciurad ganwyobili eleqtorati didia, maT Soris arian iseTi amomrCevlebi, romlebic an ar monawileoben kenWisyraSi, an dRes moqmed opoziciur partiebs mxars ar uWeren. Tu melias partia miimxrobs da mobilizebas gaukeTebs aseTi amomrCevlebis segments da politikur TamaSSi CarTavs ivaniSvilis winaaRmdeg, es mxolod misasalmebelia. Tu msgavsi ram ar moxda, maSin gaugebaria nikas wasvla `nacionaluri moZraobidan~.
– amas winaT `edison riserCma~ morigi sociologiuri gamokiTxva Caatara, romlis Tanaxmadac mmarTveli partiis reitingi 35 procentia, `nacmoZraobis~ – 21, gaxarias partiis – 9, `lelo saqarTvelosTvis~ – 6, ramdenad mosalodnelia koaliciuri mTavrobis Seqmna?
– arCevnebamde darCenilia 8 Tve. merwmuneT, Cveni moqalaqeebis preferenciebi politikuri partiebis mimarT ramdenimejer Seicvleba, radgan sakmaod cxeli winasaarCevno periodi gvelodeba.
– drodadro uaresdeba saqarTvelos prezidentisa da mmarTveli partiis urTierToba. SesaZloa, salome zurabiSvilma axali opoziciuri platformac Seqmnas, da ramdenad mosalodneli, man saakaSvili Seiwyalos?
– Zneli saTqmelia, saakaSvilis Sewyalebaze ra gadawyvetilebas miiRebs zurabiSvili, radgan ai, Tqven axla axseneT axali opoziciuri velis Seqmna da `gamarjvebis platformasTan~ amis Taobaze konsultaciac ki ar Catarebula moqmedi prezidentis mxridan. Sesabamisad, amis molodini piradad me naklebad maqvs, magram arCevnebamde SeiZleba politikuri mocemuloba ise Seicvalos qveyanaSi, rom saakaSvilis Sewyalebis gadawyvetilebac vixiloT.
– 2021 wlis adgilobrivma arCevnebma cxadyo, rom amomrCevlis didi nawili indiferentulia, ras akeTebs opozicia am mimarTebiT?
– saWiroa mosaxleobasTan aqtiuri komunikacia, meti muSaoba velze, maTi darwmuneba, rom Zala da simarTle opoziciis mxares aris. ver avixdenT evrostruqturebSi gawevrianebis istoriul sawadels, Tu prorusuli `qarTuli ocneba~ Tavidan ar movicileT.
– 2024 wlis arCevnebisgan siurprizebs eliT?
– `qarTuli ocneba~ yovelTvis, yvela arCevnebze Tavisi siurprizebiT `gvanebivrebda~ da vfiqrob, arc morig jerze uRalatebs tradicias. saWiroa, yvela opoziciuri partia xalxTan erTad davdgeT da davicvaT erTmaneTis xmebi, maSin ver moaxerxebs oligarqi arCevnebis gayalbebas da romc gaayalbos, ver SeinarCunebs mitacebul xelisuflebas.
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT, saqarTvelos evrokavSiris wevrobis kandidatis statusi miiniWa, es ra perspeqtivebs usaxavs Cvens qveyanas ekonomikuri ganviTarebis kuTxiT?
– perspeqtivebi didia rogorc ekonomikaSi, ise politikasa da Tavdacvis sferoSi, magram maT gamoyeneba sWirdeba. am xelisuflebis pirobebSi es praqtikulad SeuZlebelia.
– ra stadiaSia ruseT–ukrainis omi?
– ruseTi agebs am oms. putins mxolod erTi imedi aqvs, rom koleqtiur dasavleTs mobezrdeba ukrainis omi da daxmarebas Sewyvets, an misi yuradReba sxva gamowvevebisken gadainacvlebs, magram Tu dasavluri samyaro suverenul ukrainul saxelmwifos rusi okupantis pirispir marto ar datovebs, yvelaferi kargad iqneba.
– dabolos, 2024 weli ramdenad mniSvnelovani iqneba saqarTvelosTvis saSinao da sagareo politikis TvalsazrisiT?
– 2024 weli ara marto saqarTveloSi, aramed msoflios did nawilSi gadamwyveti arCevnebis welia, romlis Sedegebic kacobriobis politikur momavalze mniSvnelovnad aisaxeba. saqarTvelo ra pozicias daikavebs, civiluri samyaros gverdiT dadgeba, Tu – avtokratiuli reJimebis, amaze iqneba damokidebuli Cveni moqalaqeebis usafrTxo momavalic da keTildReobac.