“კანონის მიზანია იმ ადამიანების იდენტიფიცირება, რომლებიც ხელისუფლებისგან განსხვავებულ აზრს აფიქსირებენ”
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bolo periodSi, saqarTveloSi mTavar gansaxilvel Temad ,,ucxouri gavlenis gamWvirvalobis Sesaxeb“ kanonproeqti iqca. saparlamento ganxilvebis fonze mimdinare aqciebi da mxareebis feisbuqpostebiT brZola Cveni qveynis dRis wesrigia.
ratom aris kanoni rusuli, uqmnis Tu ara safrTxes Cvens qveyanas da ra molodini aqvT arasamTavrobo seqtorSi – am da sxva sakiTxebTan dakavSirebiT vesaubreT `mxardaWerisa da SesaZleblobebis ganviTarebis centris~ Tavmjdomare ciala qaTamiZes.
– xelisufleba da sazogadoebis nawili Tvlis, rom arasamTavroboebs ar gaqvT konkretuli argumenti, ratom aris es kanoni rusuli. gangvimarteT, ratom migaCniaT, rom kanoni rusulia?
– sazogadoebas SeuZlia konkretuli daskvnis martivad gamotana. `qarTulma ocnebam~ moaxerxa is, rom maT sityvas fasi daekarga, radgan unamusod ityuebian. adamianebi, romlebic evropul saxelmwifoSi da evrokavSirSi warmoadgenen Zalas, gveubnebian, rom es kanoni ar aris evropuli, Cveni xelisufleba ki gvimtkicebs, rom es aris evropuli. yvela Cveni partniori saxelmwifo cdilobda, yofiliyo Cveni sazogadoebis, samoqalaqo seqtoris, mediis mxardamWeri da, ra Tqma unda, aqvT interesi, maTi partniori qveyana iyos ganviTarebuli demokratiis da adamianis uflebebis dacvis mxriv, cxovrobdes yvela im standartiT, romelic efuZneba evropul Tu amerikul Rirebulebebs. arsebobs konkretuli evropuli qveynebis gamocdileba. imitom aris es kanoni rusuli, rom yvela, vinc fiqrobda da fiqrobs mmarTveli gundisgan gansxvavebulad, surT, gamoacxadon ucxo qveynis interesis gamtareblad, sazogadoebas ki uTxran, rom es emsaxureba qarTul saxelmwifos. arsebobs rusuli gamocdileba msgavsi tipis kanonTan dakavSirebiT. sazogadoebas SeuZlia, mousminos yvela im adamians, romlebic ruseTSi cxovrobdnen da msgavsi tipis kanonis safuZvelze mouwiaT qveynis datoveba, SeuZliaT moZebnon iuTubze, internetis saSualebiTac im adamianebis istoria, romelTa gansxvavebul azrs devnidnen.
– Tqveni azriT, konkretulad ra safrTxeebs uqmnis es kanoni saqarTvelos?
– me, magaliTad, da albaT bevri adamiani, romelic samoqalaqo da mediaorganizaciaSi muSaobs, ar apirebs erTi dRec ki imuSaos im organizaciaSi, romelic atarebs ucxo qveynis interesebs. me, pirvel rigSi, maqvs Rirseba da vTvli, rom rasac unda vakeTebde, Cemi saqmianobis mTavari motivi iyo da aris sxvadasxva tipis sikeTis Seqmna qarTuli saxelmwifosTvis. yvelas SeuZlia, gaakeTos arCevani, uRirs Tu ara aseTi saqmianobis Sewyveta, me piradad ar miRirs. Cvens qveyanaSi Zalian mniSvnelovania mTavrobisgan gansxvavebuli, alternatiuli simarTlis gageba rogorc sazogadoebisTvis, aseve Cveni partniori qveynebisTvis da amis gza aris kritikuli mediis arseboba. Tu aRar iarsebebs am qveyanaSi media, romelic gansxvavebul azrs ityvis, Tu ar iarsebeben adamianebi, romlebic obieqturad Seafaseben mocemul ambavs da amas yvelafers daerqmeva ucxo qveynis interesebis gatareba, realurad, am istoriis bolo iqneba is, rasac nodar dumbaZis nawarmoebSi zurikela ambobs – mTeli qveyana Cven viqnebiTo. safrTxe isaa, rom gansxvavebuli azri aRar iarsebebs.
– ra aqvs mas saerTo amerikul `farasTan~ an ra ganasxvavebs?
– simarTle giTxraT, `fara~ miiRes im wlebSi, roca sxva tipis gamowvevebi arsebobda, am SemTxvevaSi amerikuli da saubari iyo konkretul saxelmwifoebze, romlebic maSin amerikas ebrZodnen konkretuli politikuri motivebiT. am saxelmwifoSi mcxovrebi adamianebi, motivebi da praqtikac, romelic am kanonis regulaciaSia, aris sabWoTa rusul fulTan dakavSirebuli. ,,faraSi“ lobistur saqmianobazea saubari da imaze Tu ra konkretuli interesebi gaaCniaT mezobel Tu partnior qveynebs.
– rogor fiqrobT, ratom daainicira mTavrobam xelaxla aRniSnuli kanonproeqti winasaarCevnod?
– sxvadasxva tipis kvleva, romelic qveyndeba, gveubneba, rom Zalian bevr adamians aqvs gadawyvetili, ar misces xma `qarTul ocnebas~, marTalia, ar gadauwyvetia, romel partias misces xma, Tumca, realurad, es xmebi ar midis `qarTuli ocnebis~ yulabaSi, Sesabamisad, amRvreul wyalSi bevri Tevzis daWeraa SesaZlebeli, rac Zalian saxifaTo TamaSia. bevrjer gvinaxavs Cvens qveyanaSi, rom aseTi SemTxvevebi mTavrobisTvis mTlad kargad ar sruldeba. mTavrobas arCevnebamde uWirda mSvid garemoSi yofna, radgan opoziciur partiebs amomrCevlisTvis xmis miwvdenis SesaZlebloba miecemodaT.
– bevrjer iTqva, rom aRniSnuli kanonis mizani samoqalaqo seqtoris Seviwroebaa. . . konkretulad sad ikveTeba es?
– Seviwrovdeba ki arada, saerTod aRar imuSavebs. arasamTavroboebis ZiriTadi mxardamWerebi da partniorebi arian evropuli Tu amerikuli fondebi. amerikelebi da evropelebi Tvlian, rom es kanoni maT mter saxelmwifod acxadebs, im organizaciebs ki, romlebic maTi partniorebi arian – ucxo qveynis interesebis gamtareblad. yvelani Tanxmdebian imaze, rom SeuZlebelia am formatiT saqmianobis gagrZeleba.
– arasamTavroboebi miiCneven, rom aRniSnuli kanonproeqti sityvis Tavisuflebasac krZalavs. Tqveni azriT, kanonproeqtis romeli nawiliT SeiZleba es davadasturoT?
– ar vici, ase, pirdapir, sityvis Tavisufleba ikrZaleba Tu gamoxatvis. sityvis Tavisufleba ikrZaleba Tu ara, ar aris am SemTxvevaSi mniSvnelovani da amaze pasuxs ver gagcemT.
– ramdenadac cnobilia, kanonproeqtidan amoRebulia sityva `agenti~, romelic gasageb protests iwvevda sazogadoebis did nawilSi. rogor SeafasebT amas da kidev ra unda Seicvalos kanonproeqtSi, rom igi arasamTavroboebisTvis, Tundac TqvenTvis, misaRebi gaxdes?
– kanonma unda Secvalos suliskveTeba. kanonis mizania im adamianebis identificireba, romlebic xelisuflebisgan gansxvaebul azrs afiqsireben. am kanonis suliskveTeba aris sabWouri da rusuli.
– mamuka mdinaraZis TqmiT, arasamTavroboebma mTavrobas mieciT piroba, rom gamWvirvale iqneboda Semosavlebi, magram es piroba ar Sesrulebula. ras upasuxebT umravlesobis liders?
– es aris tyuili, radgan yvelaferi isedac gamWvirvalea. Mminimum, sami weli inaxeba yvela is dokumenti, romelic arasamTavroboebs proeqtis farglebSi aqvT. erTia, rom angariSvaldebuli xar donori organizaciis mimarT, radgan pirveli valdebuleba masTan gaqvs, sanam saxelmwifomde miva. Yyvela Semosuli TeTris gasavali unda iqnas deklarirebuli. saxelmwifom TiToeuli TeTris Sesaxeb icis, piradad mamuka mdinaraZes ver ecodineba, radgan igi ar aris is piri, romelmac unda icodes zedmiwevniT yvela TeTris Sesaxeb. mamuka mdinaraZe ambobs, rom qarTvelma xalxma unda icodes, raSi ixarjeba ucxo qveynis fuli, romelic Semodis da mas veTanxmebi. me veubnebi mas, rom unda icodes aseve isic, sad ixarjeba saqarTvelos biujetis fuli. arasamTavrobo seqtoris erT-erTi mTavari mimarTuleba aris gamWvirvalobac. Cemi kolegebi dRemde elodebian sxvadasxva municipalitetidan informacias, sad ixarjeba maTi fuli. sazogadoebas minda mivmarTo, visac uWirs, rom medias endos, Tavad naxos mTavrobis sxdomebi da Tavad gadawyvitos, ityueba Tu ara mamuka mdinaraZe am konkretul SemTxvevaSi.
– arasamTavrobo organizaciebis warmomadgenlebis TqmiT, am kanonSi Tu iqneboda Canaweri, rom ucxour gavlenaSi anu mesame ZalaSi igulisxmeba ruseTi an nebismieri qveyana, romelic ar aRiarebs saqarTvelos teritoriul mTlianobas, maSin igi saproblemo ar iqneboda, Tumca mmarTvel gundSi ganacxades, rom ucxour gavlenaSi yvela qveyana igulisxmeba, maT Soris, pirvel rigSi, ruseTi. . .
– Cveni partniori qveynebi da ruseTi, romelsac Cveni qveynis 20 procenti aqvs okupirebuli, erT sibrtyeSi ar unda ganvixiloT. skolidan moyolebuli gvaswavlidnen, rom ruseTi ar aris Cveni megobari. Tu daviviwyebT imas, rom Cveni qveynis 20 procenti okupirebulia, Tu daviviwyebT 2008 wlis oms, am SemTxvevaSi, SeuZliaT miiRon kanoni da SeuZliaT erT sibrtyeSi ganaTavson mteri da partniori qveynebi.
– saprotesto aqciaze ismoda mosazreba, rom ar aqvs mniSvneloba, ra kanons miiRebs xelisufleba, Tu amdeni xalxi mis winaaRmdegaa, ukan unda gaiwvios kanonproeqti. ramdenad sworad migaCniaT msgavsi pozicia?
– sxva romel kanonTan dakavSirebiT gaxsendebaT aqcia? Sesabamisad, es niSnavs, rom sakiTxi aris Zalian sensitiuri da Zalian mniSvnelovani qarTveli sazogadoebisTvis.
– gasagebia, rom protestis talRa gagrZeldeba. sxva gegma Tu gaqvT?
– es is SemTxvevaa, rodesac CixSi ayenebs mTavroba sazogadoebas da am qveynis ganviTarebis perspeqtivas. xelisufleba utuxad ambobs tyuils da utuxad amtkicebs Savze TeTrs. winaswar ver getyviT verafers.
– rogor SeafasebT aleko elisaSvilis saqciels, romelmac mamuka mdinaraZes muSti Caartya? ras daarqmevdiT mosaxleobis erTi nawilis sixaruls am faqtTan dakavSirebiT? Zaladoba, Tqveni azriT, gamarTlebulia Tu ara?
– vemijnebi yovelgvar Zaladobas, rac ar unda samarTliani emociis an poziciis gamoxatuleba iyos. vfiqrob, nebismieri tipis Zaladoba miuRebelia.
– Tqven Tu gqondaT molodini, rom es kanonproeqti dabrundeboda dRis wesrigSi?
– simarTle giTxraT, ver warmovidgendi, rom isev mivubrundebodiT amas. `qarTulma ocnebam~ sityva gatexa, rac arakeTilsindisieri saqcielia, Tumca maTgan realurad, msgavsi tipis saqciels xSirad vawydebiT.