,, საქართველოს ექსპრეზიდენტის მომავალი პენიტენციურ სისტემას უკავშირდება თუ…”
ნინო ცხვარაძე 591 98 24 30
bolo dReebSi ukrainaSi mimdinare movlenebi msoflio mediis yuradRebas iqcevs. saqarTvelos eqsprezidenti da odesis yofili gubernatori mixeil saakaSvili ukrainaSi Zebnilad
gamoacxades maSin, roca es ukanaskneli kievis centrSi saprotesto aqciebs marTavs da
prezidentis gadadgomis
moTxovniT gamodis
– saakaSvili iZebneba, is eWvmitanilia danaSaulis CadenaSi, romelic gaTvaliswinebulia ukrainis sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsis me-15 muxlis pirveli nawiliT, 28-e muxlis meore nawiliT da 256-e muxlis meore nawiliT, – ganacxada ukrainis generaluri prokuraturis presmdivanma, – Sesabamisad, mixeil saakaSvili eWvmitanilia Semdegi muxlebiT: danaSaulis mcdeloba; pirTa jgufis mier Cadenili danaSauli winaswari SeTanxmebiT; danaSaulebrivi organizaciis monawileebisTvis daxmarebis gaweva da maTi danaSaulebrivi saqmianobis dafarva.
mixeil saakaSvils `eZebs~ erovnuli policia da ukrainis usafrTxoebis samsaxuri, arada, `axali Zalebis moZraobis~ lideri 5 dekembers dakavebuli hyavdaT, man ki mxardamWerebis daxmarebiT samarTaldamcavebisgan Tavis daRweva moaxerxa.
mixeil saakaSvili Tavdapirvelad im saxlis saxuravze `gamagrda~, sadac bolo periodSi cxovrobda. erTi saaTis ganmavlobaSi cdilobdnen mis dakavebas ukraineli samarTaldamcvelebi, rac moaxerxes kidec da xelborkilebiT manqanamde miiyvanes, magram, moxda is, rac moxda da rasac sazogadoeba cirkis sanaxaobad afasebs. saqarTvelos yofili prezidenti `danebebas~ rom ar apirebs, misive gancxadebidan naTlad Cans. ufro metic, igi ukrainis generalur prokurors fsevdos da orosans uwodebs.
– gaunaTlebeli da arakanonieria. me mas genprokurorad ar miviCnev. mzad var gamomZieblebi aq – karavSi miviRo, – ganacxada guSin mixeil saakaSvilma konstituciis moedanze gamarTul brifingze.
saTqmelia isic, rom petro poroSenkos reitingi ukrainaSic daeca da mis sazRvrebs gareTac arasaxarbieloa. amis dasturad isic SegviZlia moviSvelioT, rom SeerTebuli Statebis egidiT Seqmnili antikorufciuli sabWo misi muSaobiT ukmayofiloa. amdenad, araa gamoricxuli, amasac `waexalisebina~ saakaSvili. dasavluri media ki irwmuneba, rom is, rac ukrainaSi xdeba, `poroSenkos dasasrulis dasawyisia~… vidre `ambavi saakaSvilisa~ dasasruls miuaxlovdeba, manamde ukrainaSi mimdinare movlenebTan dakavSirebiT ramdenime respondentis komentars SemogTavazebT.
uflebadamcveli Tamaz bakuriZe ar gamoricxavs, rom ukrainis xelisuflebaSi dapirispireba iyos, rac saakaSvilis wisqvilze asxams wyals.
– iman, rac xdeba kievSi, msoflio sazogadoebis yuradReba miipyro. saakaSvils swored amaze hqonda gaTvla da misi mizanic es iyo. CaTvaleT, 5 dekembers saakaSvilma gaimarjva. unda vaRiaroT, rom igi Zalian Wkviania, destabilizaciis TvalsazrisiT kargad icis, sad rogor moiqces. mas SeuZlia Seqmnas krizisi da saTavisod gamoiyenos. Tu Tvals gadavavlebT saakaSvilis politikur warsuls, igi yovelTvis sargeblobda Seqmnili garemoebebiT. SevardnaZis epoqaSi saakaSvili misi Svilobili da xelisuflebis wevri iyo. rogorc ki igrZno SevardnaZis epoqis dasasrulis dasawyisi, `gaaxsenda~, rom prezidenti korumpirebuli, uniaTo da qveynis mteri iyo. ratom dumda saakaSvili maSin, roca SevardnaZis xelisuflebaSi muSaobda da misi partiis erT-erTi wamyvani figura gaxldaT? man saqarTvelos mosaxleobis ganwyoba icoda maSindeli prezidentis mimarT da kargad gamoiyena viTareba. amasTan, saerTaSoriso sazogadoebac Tvlida, rom SevardnaZis epoqa unda dasrulebuliyo da swored am dros `gamoCnda~ saakaSvili – axalgazrda, qarizmatuli reformatori da rogorc amerikisTvis, ise ruseTisTvis misaRebi figura gaxda. dRes saakaSvili acxadebs, rom ebrZvis oligarq poroSenkos. vsvam kiTxvas: roca odesis gubernatorad gaamwesa batonma petrom, maSin ar iyo igi oligarqi da korumpirebuli? Tumca, poroSenko dRes imkis imas, rac Tavis droze daTesa. saakaSvili mas ebrZvis im meTodebiT, rogoriTac ibrZoda saqarTveloSi. nebismier axal liders ruseTisgan marTul agents uwodebda, am dros ki yvelaze did saqmes ruseTs Tavad ukeTebda. ar vambob, rom putini saakaSvilze giJdeba, magram daakvirdiT procesebs, igi aris yvelaze metad xelsayreli figura rusuli politikisTvis. faqti erTia – romeli qveynis xelisuflebaSic ar unda iyos, yvelgan destabilizacias moitans. saakaSvilma Tavisi prezidentobis dros ver moaxerxa eris konsolidacia, xalxi viRacistebad dayo, ruseTTan wamoiwyo provokaciuli omi da davkargeT asobiT axalgazrda, 15 sofeli da kodori CavabareT ruseTs. amas veravin gaakeTebda ruseTisTvis ufro kargad, vidre saakaSvilma SeZlo. igi im TamaSs TamaSobs, rac ruseTisTvis xelsayrelia. igive procesia ukrainaSic, mas destabilizacia xels aZlevs da sakuTari momavlisTvis ibrZvis. saakaSvili Zalian Wkviania, icis poroSenkos mimarT ganwyoba rogorc qveynis SigniT, ise mis farglebs gareT. dasavleTic ukmayofiloa, radgan ukrainaSi korufciaa gamefebuli da reformebi ar xorcieldeba, amas saTavisod iyenebs saakaSvili. rogorc politikosi, igi dasavleTSi aqtiuri ver iqneba, romelime dasavlur qveyanaSi, SesaZloa, rogorc rigiTma moqalaqem, ise gaagrZelos cxovreba. saqarTveloSic ver Camova. Aamdenad, rCeba ukraina, sadac mas jer kidev aqvs politikuri aqtiurobis SesaZlebloba. am dReebma dagvanaxa, rom ukrainis saxelisuflebo StoebSi dapirispirebaa, maT Soris – Zalovan uwyebebSi. garkveuli Zalebi swored saakaSvilis daxmarebiT cdiloben poroSenkos xelisuflebidan CamoSorebas. 5 dekembers saqarTvelos yofili prezidenti va-bankze, riskze wavida, radgan dasakargi araferi aqvs – daiWeren Tu ar daiWeren, viRacebisTvis mainc gmiria.
saakaSvilis saqarTvelos xelisuflebisTvis gadmocema am etapze namdvilad iqneba Cveni qveynisTvis Tavsatexi. man icis, rom mosaxleobis nawili dRevandeli xelisuflebiT ukmayofiloa, socialuri fonic – arasaxarbielo. samwuxarod, adamianebis garkveuli jgufebi dResac fiqroben, rom Tu saakaSvili dabrundeba, qveyana win wava, rac mcdari mosazrebaa. es rom ase moxdes, saqarTveloSi gagrZeldeba represiebi, dapatimrebebi, qonebebis CamorTmeva, terori da aTasi ubedureba. arastabiluri garemo Seiqmneba. saakaSvilis epoqa saqarTveloSi dasrulda, mas qarTuli marTlmsajulebis winaSe pasuxi aqvs sagebi. eqstradirebis an Camosvlis SemTxvevaSi, is SeZlebs xalxis garkveuli nawilis ayoliebas, Tumca, Zalian didi nawili daupirispirdeba. arc es iqneba kargi, aman SeiZleba samoqalaqo omamde migviyvanos. amdenad, faqtia, rom mixeil saakaSvili yvelgan da yvelasTvis didi Tavsatexia. mas erT adgilze gaCereba ar SeuZlia da sakuTari interesebisTvis eSmaksac ki Seekvreba, saxuravidan saxuravzec gadaxteba da dablac Camoxteba, Tu darwmunebuli iqneba, rom rbilad daecema… igi yvelafers ikadrebs, – gviTxra uflebadamcvelma Tamaz bakuriZem.
mixeil saakaSvilis Tanapartieli, Tanamoazre da aWaris umaRlesi sabWos wevri asmaT diasamiZe CvenTan saubrisas acxadebs, rom ukraineli xalxis gamarjvebis sjera da es gamarjveba Cveni qveynis keTildReobaze aisaxeba.
– problema ufro globaluria, vidre regionalur konteqstSi gansaxilveli. is, rac ukrainaSi xdeba, xalxis Zalis demonstrireba, sazogadoebis dakveTaa, rac amaRlebul xasiaTs da ganwyobas miqmnis. Cemi qveynis warmomadgeneli movlenebis epicentrSia, xalxis majiscemaze udevs xeli. batonma mixeilma icis, ra surs mosaxleobas, Sesabamisad, gamarjvebamde ibrZolebs. rac ukrainaSi xdeba, mxolod im qveynisTvis ar aris mniSvnelovani, ukraineli xalxis gamarjveba saqarTvelozec aisaxeba. arasworma nabijebma, rasac ukrainis prezidenti am bolos dgams, mniSvnelovnad gaaZliera opoziciuri Zala da mixeil saakaSvili. korufcia Tu sistemis moSla – es aris ukraineli xalxis protestis mTavari motivi, mobezrdaT prezidentis araswori politika.
dasavlur medias, romelsac miaCnia, rom ukrainaSi mimdinare procesebi poroSenkos dasasrulis dasawyisia, veTanxmebi. swored xalxis ZaliT da mondomebiT gaxda SesaZlebeli dakavebuli saakaSvilis gamoxsna da misTvis Tavisuflebis miniWeba, mas kidev erTxel Caabares brZolis sadaveebi. ukrainis parlamentarebi gverdiT udganan saakaSvils. mniSvnelovania isic, yvela opoziciuri Zala erTad rom dgas da gamarjvebamde darCenil wuTebs iTvlian. diax, dawyebulia poroSenkos dasasrulis dasawyisi, – gviTxra asmaT diasamiZem. rac Seexeba saakaSvilis saqarTveloSi eqstradirebis sakiTxs, amaze deputati acxadebs, rom am bolo dReebSi saocrad SeSinebuli Cans qveynis xelisufleba.
– saakaSvili maTTvis marTlac didi Tavis tkivilia. mixeil saakaSvilis erTadaerTi mizani sakuTari qveynis warmatebaa. garwmunebT, misi ukrainaSi gamarjveba saqarTvelos keTildReobaze da momavalze aisaxeba. amitom arian SeSinebulebi. ramdenic ar unda ilaparakon, rom is, rac ukrainaSi xdeba, mxolod ukrainis problemaa, gulis siRrmeSi ician, es yvelaferi saqarTvelozec rom aisaxeba. amasTan, mjera, ukrainaSic Seicvleba xelisufleba da gaimarjvebs xalxis Zala, – dasZina asmaT diasamiZem.
umaRlesi sabWos umravlesobis wevri, adamianis uflebaTa dacvis sakiTxTa komisiis Tavmjdomare cotne ananiZe saakaSvilis momavals penitenciur sistemaSi xedavs.
– ukrainaSi rac xdeba, im qveynis samarTlebrivi da politikuri procesia. ver vityvi, rom amas globalur politikur procesTan aqvs kavSiri. mixeil saakaSvili iyo odesis gubernatori, Semdeg gaaTavisufles, CamoarTves ukrainis moqalaqeoba, dRes ki cdilobs iq Seqmnas revoluciuri foni – Secvalos xelisufleba, esaa mxolod misi mizani. ara mgonia, saerTaSoriso mxardaWera hqondes misi begraundidan gamomdinare, Tundac imis gaTvaliswinebiT, ra Sedegebic saqarTveloSi dado. msoflio amaze informirebulia. mas bevri danaSauli aqvs Cadenili saqarTveloSi prezidentobis dros, – acxadebs cotne ananiZe.
– batono cotne, sainteresoa, qveyanaSi Zebnilad im piris gamocxadeba, romlis adgilsamyofeli yvelam icis. rogor fiqrobT, ratom ver axerxeben mis dakavebas?
– kiTxva legitimuria da sazogadoebac dabneulia. ra tipis strategia aqvs ukrainel samarTaldamcavebs, Znelia konkretuli pasuxi gagceT. Cven oficialurad informirebulebi varT, rom mis winaaRmdeg aRZrulia sisxlis samarTlis saqme sxvadasxva muxliT. saakaSvili dabarebulia prokuraturaSi, Tumca isic viciT, rom ar apirebs misvlas. ukrainis xelisufleba cdilobs, rom situacia ar gamwvavdes, frTxilia, es maTi strategiaa da SeiZleba iTqvas, sazogadoebaSi aman kiTxvebi gaaCina. bevri adamiani miiCnevs, rom susti strategiaa, Tumca es Tavidan bolomde ukrainuli saxelmwifos samarTlebrivi sferoa, – gviTxra deputatma.
– ukrainaSi amerikis egidiT Seqmnilma antikorufciulma sabWom petro poroSenkos misamarTiT ukmayofileba gamoTqva. amanac xom ar waaxalisa mixeil saakaSvili?
– saakaSvils aqvs politikuri amocanebi, sakuTari motivi aqvs – cdilobs Tavisi politikuri adgili daimkvidros ukrainaSi da amisTvis didi xania emzadeba. zusti TariRi ar vici, poroSenkos misamarTiT antikorufciuli sabWos mxridan gamoTqmuli pretenziis, magram danamdvilebiT vici, rom am Sefasebamde saakaSvils hqonda politikuri miznebi da garkveuli qmedebebi dawyebuli, gansakuTrebiT bolo periodSi, roca igi odesis gubernatori iyo.
– `poroSenkos dasasrulis dasawyisi~ – ase exmianeba dasavluri media ukrainaSi mimdinare movlenebs…
– SesaZlebelia garkveuli politikuri cvlilebebi moxdes ukrainaSi, magram ramdenad iqneba es saakaSvilisTvis sasargeblo, am etapze prognozis gakeTeba rTulia. saakaSvili politikurad gakotrebulia saqarTveloSic, es faqtia. mas arc Cveni qveynis moqalaqeoba aqvs, sakuTari surviliT da es ar SeiZleba romelime politikur jgufs an xelisuflebas dabraldes. misi aqtualoba politikur wreebSi Tu mediaSi ukavSirdeba mxolod imas, rom iyo saxelmwifos meTauri da im periodSi, Zalian bevri gadawyvetileba da qmedeba pirdapir arRvevda adamianis uflebebs, demokratiul Rirebulebebs.
– saakaSvilis eqstradirebaze ras ityviT? iqneba Tu ara igi xelisuflebisTvis `Tavis tkivili~?
– saakaSvili ukve iyo `Tavis tkivili~ da ar mgonia, samomavlodac ase moxdes, radgan saqarTvelos mosaxleobam mas 2012 wels gasca pasuxi… ZiriTadi birTvi, romelic saqarTveloSi hyavda, dRes damoukideblad agrZelebs saqmianobas, vgulisxmob `evropul saqarTvelos~, romelic saqarTvelos parlamentSi ufro farTodaa warmodgenili, vidre `nacionaluri moZraoba~. Tu is Camova, esaa ormxrivi xelSekrulebiT da saerTaSoriso samarTliT daregulirebuli sakiTxi. maRali albaTobiT, saakaSvili pasuxs agebs adamianis uflebebis SelaxvisTvis, biznesis terorisTvis, mediis Tavisuflebis SezRudvisa da sxva bevr sakiTze, razec sazogadoeba informirebulia. Cemi mosazrebiT, misi dakavebis SemTxvevaSi, eqstradireba umal ver moxdeba, radgan ukrainuli kanonmdebloba edaveba sisxlis samarTlebriv danaSauls. amdenad, sasjelis mniSvnelovan dros ukrainaSi gaatarebs.
– rTulia prognozireba, rogori dasasruli SeiZleba hqondes ukrainis procesebs, magram, Tqven rogor fiqrobT, riT SeiZleba dasruldes `ambavi saakaSvilisa~?
– politikuri da samarTlebrivi mocemulobac gvaqvs, saakaSvilis momavali ukavSirdeba penitenciur dawesebulebas.