,,ახლანდელი ხელისუფლება ისევ ბენდუქიძის კანონპროექტით ხელმძღვანელობს”
ირმა ცეცხლაძე 27 48 93
merab bladaZe – aWaris umaRlesi sabWos damoukidebeli wevri `patriotTa aliansidan~, sakmao aqtiurobiT gamoirCeva regionis politikur speqtrSi. Tavis droze mediakavSir `obieqtivis~ Jurnalisti da saavtoro gadacema `aWaris saaTis~ wamyvani, ganaTlebiT ekonomisti, cxovrebis sxvadasxva etapze erTmaneTisgan gansxvavebul sarbielze moRvaweobda, maT Soris Sss sisxlis samarTlis samZebro sammarTvelosa da sabaJo departamentSi, sadac baTumis sammarTvelos specdaniSnulebis razms meTaurobda. mis biografiul monacemebSi yuradRebas ipyrobs Semdegi poziciebi: mediakavSir `obieqtivis~ warmomadgeneli belgiaSi; organizacia `belgiel qarTvelTa kavSiris~ TanadamfuZnebeli; `21-e saukune – saqarTvelos momavali~ – organizaciis damfuZnebeli/Tavmjdomare; evrokavSiris politdevnilTa ombudsmeni `winaaRmdegobis moZraobidan~ da kompania `triumviratis~ direqtori.
merab bladaZe aris 30-mde publicisturi werilisa da 100-mde sagazeTo statiis avtori. briuselSi gavlili aqvs `evrointegraciis sruli kursi~. flobs frangul, rusul da holandiur enebs. amJamad, umaRlesi sabWos agrarul da garemos dacvis sakiTxTa komitetis wevria.
gTavazobT intervius am sakmaod mravalmxrivi codnisa da gamocdilebis politikosTan, romelic Seexo regionis cxovrebis sxvadasxva aspeqts.
– batono merab, erTi periodi xma gavrcelda, rom Tqven CaanacvleT `patriotTa aliansis~ aWaris organizaciis Tavmjdomare tariel mamulaiSvili am postze.
– ara, me aravin Caminacvlebia da arc vapireb. batonma tarielma janmrTelobis gauaresebis gamo datova posti. mis adgilze ukve ganixileba ramdenime kandidatura. partiis yrilobaze, saTanado msjelobisa da procedurebis dacvis Semdgom, maTgan airCeva Tavmjdomare.
– ratom gawevriandiT `patriotTa aliansSi,~ ras hpirdeba gansakuTrebuls igi Tavis amomrCevels?
– `patriotTa aliansi~ Tavis amomrCevlebs (da ara marto maT) sTavazobs ukeTes cxovrebas, adamianis pirovnul dafasebas, rac dRes ar arsebobs. agreTve, samuSao adgilebs da yvelaze mTavars: xalxi ki ar iqneba valdebuli mTavrobis winaSe, Tavad mTavroba iqneba valdebuli xalxTan.
– es yvelaferi Zalian zogadi dapirebaa, nebismieri mmarTveli Zala swored amas acxadebs, rom angariSvaldebulia xalxis winaSe, Tumca praqtikulad piriqiTaa. . .
– SemiZlia ufro davakonkreto: Cveni partia saTaveSi mosvlisTanave apirebs ipoTekarebis problemis mogvarebas, kerZo bankebis drakonuli procentebis dawevas. . . srul bednierebas veravis davpirdebiT, radgan amas msoflios mowinave qveynebis mTavrobebic ver uzrunvelyofen sakuTari moqalaqeebisTvis, magram erTs namdvilad getyviT – Rimils davubrunebT sazogadoebas, mowyenili, daRvremili gamometyveleba aRar eqnebaT saqarTvelos moqalaqeebs. . . mogvenatra qarTvelebs Rimili da kargi ganwyoba.
– `qarTulma ocnebam~ am Rimilis dasabruneblad valebic ki gadauxada moqalaqeebs. . .
– es iyo arasaxelmwifoebrivi midgoma. vis gadauxada valebi? msxvil biznesmenebs! vali ki ar unda gadauxado moqalaqeebs, samuSao adgilebi unda Seqmna. adamiani procentian vals rom iRebs, Seni – saxelmwifos imedi aqvs, romelic ise ganaviTarebs ekonomikas, rom Semosavali gaezrdeba da bankis valebs gadafaravs. aq ki piriqiT xdeba, iReb valebs kargi Semosavlis imediT da cota xanSi ise ufasurdeba fuli, rom yvelafers kargav. saxelmwifom valebi imaT gadauxada, visac isedac kargi Semosavali aqvs.
– im moqalaqeebs gadauxada, romlebic `Sav siaSi~ iyvnen da valebi hqondaT bankebis da mikrosafinansoebis. . .
– kargi ra, gexvewebiT. . . mag valebs arc aravin ixdida, Camowerili iyo isec. `Sav siaSi~ iyvnen da yelamde procentebSi. . . Tavad moikiTxeT, iqidan ramdens gamousworda viTareba? uares situaciaSi aRmoCndnen. mTavaria, Tavad sabanko sistemis mowesrigeba da saprocento ganakveTebis daweva kanonis regulaciebiT. gadaxedeT mikrosafinanso organizaciebs – mevaxSeebiTaa savse. maT mflobelebs asobiT bina aqvT. ar SeiZleba 30%-ian sesxze 20%-is zemodan daricxva. ra bizneszea saubari amxela procentebis Semdeg? rogor waadgeba es ekonomikas an mosaxleobas?
– Tqven, rogorc ekonomisti, ras fiqrobT, ra gadaarCens saqarTvelos ekonomikas?
– ekonomikis holandiuri modeli. unda ganviTardes sasaTbure meurneobebi. belgiasa da holandiaSi agronomTa klubebi funqcionirebs, sadac mecnierul doneze muSaoben am mimarTulebiT. investorebis mowveva ki ar aris mTavari, aramed specialistebis Camoyvana, romlebic praqtikulad imuSaveben da dagvexmarebian soflis meurneobis am dargis normalurad ganviTarebaSi.
– investorebis winaaRmdegi xarT?
– investors saerTod ar ainteresebs saxelmwifoSi ra rCeba, is sakuTar mogebaze muSaobs. aq Tu aaSena kazino an sastumro, Cven ra adgili gvaqvs? momsaxure personalis – krupies an barmenis, isic yvelaze karg SemTxvevaSi. es ar niSnavs saxelmwifoebriv midgomas. fabrika-qarxnebi unda aigos xalxis realurad dasasaqmeblad da sakuTari produqciis Sesaqmnelad, axlandeli xelisufleba ki isev benduqiZis kanonproeqtiT xelmZRvanelobs.
– am bolos aWaraSi maRalCinosnebis daWeraze ras fiqrobT?
– ra unda vifiqro, karga xania viTxov korufciuli sqemis gamoaSkaravebas, romliTac aWaraSi gaflangulia asobiT milioni lari da ara sasacilo milionnaxevari, razec axlaa laparaki. Tanac, ramdenad aucilebeli iyo am adamianebis xelborkilebiT gayvana, jer kidev gasarkvevia. gasagebia, rom moawyves saCvenebeli daWerebi. uaxloes periodSi vapireb `patriotTa aliansis~ saxeliT davayeno sakiTxi da moviTxovo monitoringis jgufis Seqmna, romelic Seiswavlis aWaraSi Catarebul tenderebs, programebs da maTze daxarjul Tanxebs, gaarkvevs am fulis miznobriobas. me xazgasmiT vimeoreb – aTobiT ki ara, asobiT milioni laria aWaraSi gaflanguli, viRacebis jibeebSi rom daileqa.
– am `viRacebSi~ vis gulisxmobT?
– ra Tqma unda, adgilobriv da dedaqalaqel maRalCinosnebs. maT gareSe veraferi moxerxdeboda, faqtia. am SemTxvevaSi minda ganvazogado es Tema sxva kuTxiT: Tavad saxelmwifo gaxda korufciuli. viZirebiT am WaobSi. imaSi verc me da verc Tqven dagvarwmuneben, rom biZina ivaniSvils sWirdeba es korufcia, magram garemocva hyavs aseTi da amas araferi eSveleba manam, sanam saxelmwifo neba ar iqneba. sakuTari naTesavebiT hyavT gamovsebuli saxelmwifo struqturebi. saqarTvelo gaxda qveyana, sadac profesionalizmi ar fasobs. ermakovi da manveliZe ra dasaWeria?!
– ramdenad sworad migaCniaT dagrovebiTi pensiis savaldebulod SemoReba? isedac 20%-iT vibegrebodiT da 3% dagvemata (profkavSirebis 1%-is CaTvliT). sakmaod mZime begara gamogvivida. . .
– im xelfasebis fonze, rac CvenTanaa, namdvilad mZimea, magram, zogadad, vTvli, rom dagrovebiTi pensiis SemoReba aucilebeli iyo. es mTel msoflioSi aprobirebuli meTodia, magram ramdenad gamarTlebulia CvenTan Aarsebul saocrad dabali anazRaurebis pirobebSi, sxva sakiTxia. 300-400-500 larze didi daricxvaa, Tan arsebuli inflaciac unda gaiTvaliswinon. vusmen da mikvirs am ekonomistebis, sajarod rom gamodian da xalxs amSvideben: ra gikvirT, TurqeTSi, ruseTSi, azerbaijansa Tu somxeTSi uaresiao. ar aris ase, ar aris amis brali… yvela arCevnebis dros Warbi fuli Semodis, romelic masobrivad rigdeba mosaxleobaSi, inflacia daiwyeba, aba, ra iqneba, ra SuaSia TurqeTSi liris `gafuWeba~ da azerbaijanSi – manaTis?! benzinis fasi male dolars miuaxlovdeba. mTel msoflioSi iklebs benzinis Rirebuleba da saqarTveloSi matulobs! riTi axsnian amas?!
– Tqven religiuri uTanxmoebis Sesaxeb gamodiodiT xSirad sityviT. . .
– diax, iyo es qobuleTSi dapirispirebis dros, Tumca axla Cawynardnen. albaT, muslimanebi gaiTvaliswineben qobuleTelebis moTxovnas. . . me SevTavaze sruliad axali modeli xelisuflebas (axali – saqarTvelosTvis da ara msofliosTvis), rom erTi galavnis farglebSi aSendes meCeTi, sinagoga, marTlmadidebluri da kaTolikuri eklesiebi. sinagoga imitom vaxsene, rom qarTvel ebraelebs iseve aRviqvam, rogorc gurul, megrel, imerel Tu kaxel Zmebs. isinic Cveni sisxli da xorci arian.
– ra mogwonT da ra ar mogwonT aWaris mmarTvel wreebSi?
– Zalian momwons Tornike riJvaZis SemarTeba. ebrZvis korufcias da realurad cdilobs, raRac gaakeTos aWarisTvis. am etapze, am xelisuflebis pirobebSi, metis gakeTeba marTlac ar SeiZleba. axalgazrdaa, motivirebuli da namdvilad moagvara bevri seriozuli problema. momwons ministrTa kabinetic. daviwyeb maia xajiSviliT: umaRles sabWoSi vxedavdi, rogor muSaobda – seriozuli profesionalia da kargi adamiani. zaal miqelaZe – gulisxmieri, saocrad Tbili pirovnebaa, icis saqme, amasTan, principulia. tite aroSiZe – ganaTlebuli, Wkviani biWia, cdilobs winamorbedebis mier daSvebuli Secdomebis gamosworebas. jaba futkaraZe – motivirebulia investiciebis mozidvis kuTxiT, energiulad muSaobs. . . ar momwons, rom xelisufleba uyairaTod xarjavs uzarmazar Tanxebs arasaWiro programebSi da isic ki, rac keTdeba, uxarisxoa – maTi tenderebiT gamovlenili kompaniebis mier dagebuli gzebi Tu reabilitirebuli wylis sistemebi. uamravi fuli Cades wylis sistemebSi wina xelisuflebis dros, magram wyali isev ar aris. amaze viTxov monitoringis Catarebas. gamoyofili Tanxa gaqra, ar daixarja, jibeebSi Caileqa. magaliTad, sameba-xucubnis wylis sistema gamoicvalao, meubnebian, arada, isev erTi saaTiT modis wyali, rogorc adre.
– ras fiqrobT baTumSi kazinoebis momravlebaze?
– cxadia, kazinoebis momxre ar var, magram, samwuxarod, am etapze SeuZlebelia im solidur Tanxebze uaris Tqma, biujetSi rom SeaqvT. RmerTiT, Cveni saxelmwifo ise gaZlierdes, imis fufuneba dagvirCes, saerTod avkrZaloT azartuli TamaSebi.
– Tqveni partia gamovida iniciativiT, rom uari vTqvaT natoze. rogorRa davibrunebT dakargul teritoriebs?
– teritoriebis dabruneba mxolod da mxolod ruseTTan dialogis gziTaa SesaZlebeli. rac Seexeba natos, mainc ar gvRebuloben, xarji ki gvaqvs bevri. iciT Tu ara, rom TavdacvisTvis gamoyofili 1 miliardidan 600 milioni xmardeba jars, xolo danarCeni 400 milioniT finansdeba natos RonisZiebebSi monawileobisTvis aucilebeli mowyobiloba, iaraRi, formebi da a.S. Tu mainc ar gvRebulobs, is fuli aqeT gavxarjoT da ukeTesi cxovreba SeviqmnaT. elementarulad, sajaro skolebSi moswavleebs kveba davufinansoT, amaze kargi ra iqneba?
– batono merab, momaval arCevnebze, rogorc sxva partiis warmomadgenlebi, Tqvenc xom ar elodebiT gayalbebas?
– gayalbebas ara, magram mosyidvas – ki. faqtia, rom arCevnebi gadaiqca biznesad, magram es ver moxdeba, Tu absoluturi umravlesoba daafiqsirebs sakuTar azrs. `patriotTa aliansi~ sTavazobs xelisuflebas, savaldebulo gaxados moqalaqeebis arCevnebze misvla ise, rogorc evropis bevr qveyanaSia, maT Soris germaniaSi, holandiaSi, belgiaSi, safrangeTSi. Tu ar mixval arCevnebze, jarima gekisreba. sanam aseT kanons ar miviRebT, yovelTvis gveqneba amomrCevlis mosyidvis Tu kenWisyris Sedegebis gayalbebis riski.
– `muyaos qalaqs~, romlis gamoc akritikebdiT xelisuflebas, axali korpusebi Caanacvlebs. rogor afasebT mTavrobis gadawyvetilebas da xom ar TvliT, rom is gaxdeba precedenti?
– rogorc uflebadamcveli da teleprogramis wamyvani, marTlac xSirad vaSuqebdi am Temas. kargi gadawyvetilebaa, magram maSin – 2012-Si, roca iq Casaxlda xalxi, ufro martivad da naklebi danaxarjebiT iyo SesaZlebeli problemis mogvareba. iq iyvnen Camosuli axalcixidan, walkidan, maRalmTiani aWaridan, iTxovdnen miwis nakveTebs saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxeSi, magram esec ver moxerxda xelisufalTa sizarmacis, uniaTobis gamo. Semdeg gaizardnen bavSvebic, qalaqic. . . vinRa wavidoda walkaSi? amitom swori gadawyvetileba miiRo Tornike riJvaZem. rac Seexeba precedents, am procesis ganmeorebis safrTxe marTlac arsebobs. walkaSi rom CaxvideT, naxavT, ra mdgomareobaSi arian iq Casaxlebuli Cveni aWarlebi. maTxovrebad aqcies mSromeli, gamrje xalxi, radgan arc miwa aqvT, arc saWmel-sasmeli.
– ise aqebT mTavrobis wevrebs, xandaxan kritikas rom ar urevdeT, `ocnebis~ farul Tayvanismcemlad CagTvlidiT. . .
– me konstruqciuli opozicia var: kargs vaqeb, cuds vakritikeb. damijereT, `patriotTa aliansi~ swored is partiaa, romelic xaliss, imeds, dovlaTs da Rimils dagibrunebT, qarTvelebo. aRaravin gaiqceva lukmapurisTvis emigraciaSi, xolo Tu isev `imas~ mieyidebiT – darCebiT igive situaciaSi, rogorSic xarT!