ევროპული კურსი რომ შეუქცევადი გახდეს. . .
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTveloSi politikuri temperatura maRalia, rac ganpirobebulia moaxloebuli arCevnebiT. opoziciuri centrebi xelisuflebis uunarobasa da qveynis kursis cvlilebaze amaxvileben yuradRebas. Tavis mxriv, xelisuflebis warmomadgenlebi opoziciis moRalateobriv saqmianobaze saubroben. saqarTveloSi mimdinare procesebma SesaZloa, axal realobas Cauyaros safuZveli: Tu mmarTveli partia arCevnebSi damajereblad gaimarjvebs, igi meoTxejer SeZlebs xelisuflebaSi darCenas. arc isaa gamoricxuli, qveyanas koaliciuri mTavroba hyavdes, yovel SemTxvevaSi, amis Taobaze saubroben opozicionerebi da analitikosebi. rogoria dRes realoba, orientiri da aspeqtebi, romlebic uTuod unda davinaxoT, rom evropuli kursi Seuqcevadi gaxdes? am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis specialisti, saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv saqmeTa institutis (jipa-s) profesori giorgi koberiZe.
– arCevnebis demokratiulobis mTavari barometri saarCevno garemoa. ra SeiZleba iTqvas am mxriv Cveni qveynis magaliTze?
– saqarTveloSi saarCevno garemo ukiduresad daZabulia, kritikuli. politikuri moTamaSeebi erTmaneTs eqcevian ara ise, rogorc metoqeebi, aramed rogorc mtrebi. amasTan, fsonze devs ara Sidapolitikuri sakiTxi, aramed sagareo politikuri arCevani, amitomac daZabuloba politikur sivrceSi Zalian maRalia. Aaseve, cvlilebebis molodini Zalian maRalia. rogoradac unda dasruldes arCevnebi, am yvelafers grZelvadiani Sedegi eqneba.
– praqtikulad, saarCevno garemo dasasruls uaxlovdeba. rogor SeafasebdiT partiebis saarCevno strategias, rame siaxle Tu SeniSneT maT saqmianobaSi sxvadasxva sakiTxTan mimarTebiT?
– `qarTuli ocnebis~ mxridan siaxles verafers vxedavT – metoqeebs kvlav bilbordebze aqveynebs, agentebs eZaxis. erTaderTi, rac am politikas daemata mmarTveli partiis mxridan, aris evrokavSiris gaSavebis procesis dawyeba. es ar aris jansaRi kritika, es maTi mxridan, swored, gaSavebis Ria procesia. vxedavT, rom situacia am mxriv, swored, damZimebulia. rac Seexeba opozicias, opozicia ufro pasiuria da es maTi mxridan SeiZleba iyos strategia, rac sakmaod efeqturia, radganac am mimarTulebiT axla zedmeti aqtiuroba politikur partiebs ar sWirdebaT. TavidaTavi is gaxlavT, rom politikuri partiebi (oponirebis TvalsazrisiT) axla erTmaneTs ki ar akritikeben, aramed orientirebulebi arian saarCevno sivrceSi sagareo politikis sakiTxis SemotaniT, radgan Sida politikam, erTgvarad, meore planze gadaiwia.
– qarTul opoziciaSi ramdenime centri Camoyalibda. ras fiqrobT am gadajgufebebze?
– vfiqrob, rom es centrebi aris droebiTi. maTi mizania, mmarTveli partia Seicvalos. Tu raime formiT mmarTvelma partiam arCevnebi moigo da Zalaufleba SeinarCuna, es politikuri RerZebi isev dapirispirebuli iqnebian erTmaneTTan da maTi gaerTianebis Sansebi naklebia, xolo Tuki opoziciam moaxerxa arCevnebSi umravlesobis mopoveba, maSin, savaraudod, mouwevT daTmobaze wasvla. savaraudod, `nacmoZraobas~ meti Sansi aqvs, gaxdes yvelaze Zlieri opoziciuri partia, mas yvelaze meti daTmobac mouwevs, radganac `nacmoZraobis~ mxridan mTavrobis Camoyalibeba (rogorc lideri partnioris mxridan) naklebad mosalodnelia. mas mouwevs daTmoba da kompromisi mcire partiebTan.
– opoziciis liderebi acxadeben, rom saerTo jamSi, imarjveben, magram gaxarias partia ar apirebs `nacmoZraobasTan~ koaliciis Seqmnas. aqedan gamomdinare, ramdenad mosalodnelia koaliciuri mTavrobis dakompleqteba?
– rTulia am mimarTebiT gaxarias poziciaze saubari imitom, rom ar viciT, misi partia arCevnebSi ramden procents aiRebs. Tu gaxarias partias arCevnebSi ar eqneba imdeni procenti, rom gadamwyveti xmis ufleba hqondes, maSin, savaraudod, mas mouwevs daTmobaze wasvla, radganac alternativis SemTxvevaSi es niSnavs riggareSe arCevnebs, anu Tuki mTavroba verc moqmedma umravlesobam da verc opoziciam Camoayaliba, es avtomaturad niSnavs riggareSe arCevnebs da ramdenad awyobs es opozocias, ukve sadavo sakiTxia. vfiqrob, arCevnebis Semdgomi realoba ukarnaxebs gaxarias, rogor da ranairad moiqces.
– amas winaT `edison riserCma~ morigi kvlevis Sedegebi gamoaqveyna, romlis mixedviTac opozicia imarjvebs. ramdenad sandoa msgavsi kvlevebi?
– zogadad, politikuri kvlevebi Zalian mniSvnelovania, gansakuTrebiT, Tu es xalxis ganwyobis anu realuri situaciis asaxvas emsaxureba. mosaxleobis didi nawili Tavs aridebs sakuTari azris dafiqsirebas, rac niSnavs imas, rom politikaSi Cabmuli moqalaqeebis umetesobis azri ar viciT, amitomac xSirad azrs moklebulia am kvlevebze dayrdnoba. martivad rom vTqvaT, Tu mosaxleobis minimum 25 procenti azrs ar afiqsirebs, es niSnavs, rom realuri suraTi ar Cans. cota sxvanairi suraTia natosTan da evrokavSirTan mimarTebiT. am mxriv, poziciis dafiqsireba Riad xdeba, amitomac aris, rom ufro sainteresoa kvlevebi am mimarTulebiT. saerTod ki kvlevebi aqtualuria.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi acxadeben, rom zemoaRniSnul kvlevebs ar endobian, radgan maTi reitingi 60 procentis farglebSi meryeobs. ras fiqrobT?
– xelisuflebis mxridan raime saxis ndoba-undoblobaze saubari arafers cvlis. sinamdvileSi, Cven ar viciT, mosaxleobis is nawili, romelic pozicias ar afiqsirebs, ratom iqceva ase – imitom, rom opozicias uWers mxars da eSinia azris dafiqsirebis, Tu imitom, rom mmarTveli gundis mxardamWeria da, erTgvarad, rcxvenia masTan afilirebis?! amitomac aris es sakiTxi Riad darCenili, rom kvlevebi saqarTveloSi politikur partiebTan mimarTebiT maincdamainc swori da Tanmimdevruli yovelTvis ar aris, gvxvdeba sakmaod seriozuli acdenebic, msgavsi ram yvela qveyanaSi xdeba. . . saerTod, problema aris gadauwyveteli amomrCeveli, romelic sakuTar azrs ar afiqsirebs.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi imasac amboben, rom opoziciis nawili destabilizacias gegmavs. . .
– mmarTveli partiis mxridan nebismieri gancxadeba axla aris politikuri gancxadeba, sakuTari mosaxleobis daSinebis mcdeloba, rom dasavluri Zalebi amas da amas apireben, rom opozicia destabilizacias gegmavs, xelisufleba yoveli arCevnebis win akeTebs msgavs gancxadebebs. es aris Cveulebrivi fsiqologiuri zemoqmedeba sakuTar mosaxleobaze da am xerxiT cdiloben politikuri miznis miRwevas. xelisufleba, romelsac aqvs maRali mxardaWera, kargi politikuri ideebi da xedva, msgavs gancxadebebs ar gaakeTebs da sakuTari mosaxleobis daSinebas ar daiwyebs.
– orpartiuli Tu mravalpartiuli iqneba momavali parlamenti?
– vfiqrob, rom, saboloo jamSi, mravalpartiuli parlamenti gveyoleba, rac qveynisTvis yvelaze optimaluri Sedegia imitom, rom rac ufro meti demokratia iqneba, miT meti Sansia, yvela adamianis pozicia iqnes dafiqsirebuli, gamoxatuli da yvela adamianis moTxovna iyos gaTvaliswinebuli. saerTod, saqarTveloSi unda Camoyalibdes mravalpartiuli mmarTveloba, es politikur procesebs gaaumjobesebs da kiTxva, maS, vis mivce xma, moqalaqeTagan aRar daismeba.
– romel ZiriTad politikur centrebs Soris warimarTeba brZola?
– realurad, aris ori politikuri centri – opoziciuri da saxelisuflebo, magram arCevnebSi xelisuflebis damarcxebis SemTxvevaSi miviRebT ufro mravalpartiul parlaments, sadac iarsebebs koaliciis Sansi da es situacias mxolod da mxolod gaaumjobesebs. am etapze, mTavari ara Sidapolitikuri da Sidaideologiuri, aramed sagareo politikuri sakiTxia da opoziciuri flangebic amis Sesaxeb gamokveTen pozicias, kerZod, afiqsireben azrs, rom amJamad saqarTvelo dgas sagareo politikuri egzistencialuri safrTxis winaSe. amitomac naklebad arian orientirebulebi Sidapolitikuri sakiTxebis gadaWraze. centrebs Soris konfliqtze, am etapze, saubari naklebad savaraudoa, xolo Tuki xelisufleba Seicvala, cxadia, amaze saubari iqneba Zalian aqtualuri.
– partiebs ramdenad safuZvlianad aqvT Camoyalibebuli programebi qveynis ganviTarebis TvalsazrisiT?
– aq isev ori arCevania, erTi – evropuli kursi da evropuli kursis mxardaWera da meore – raRac bundovani, ufro sworad, prorusuli kursi. amitomac Rrma wiaRsvlebze aRar aris saubari, siRrmeebSi ar aris gawerili procesi ara imitom, rom partiebs amis unari ar aqvT, aramed imitom, rom dakveTa ar arsebobs am etapze, dakveTa aris mxolod da mxolod is, Tu sad xar Sen, romeli kursiT migyavs es qveyana. es aris maqsimumi, rasac xelisufleba da opozicia erTgvarad ayalibeben da erTmaneTs ejibrebian amis warmosaCenad.
– cxadia, gverds ver avuvliT saqarTvelos prezidentis iniciativebs. ramdenad realuria gardamavali mTavrobis Seqmna da erT weliwadSi axali arCevnebis Catareba?
– savaraudod, riggareSe arCevnebi, raRac formiT, iqneba, iqidan gamomdinare, rom opoziciis mTavari mizani am etapze aris xelisuflebis Secvla, ukve Semdgomi procesebi ki ufro metad nakarnaxevi iqneba TavianTi anu partiuli dRis wesrigis dabrunebiT da, savaraudod, riggareSe arCevnebis molodini ufro realisturi iqneba. ramdenad imuSavebs teqnikuri mTavroba, es calke sakiTxia – teqnikur mTavrobas calke aqtiuri mxardaWera sWirdeba politikuri Zalebisgan da es politikuri Zalebi mudmivad safrTxis qveS iqnebian, winaswar raimes rom dauWiron mxari. arCevnebis Semdeg savaraudoa, rom isini sakuTari kandidatebis win wamowevas, koaliciuri mTavrobis dakompleqtebas Seecdebian, romlis muSaoba grZelvadianad, cota ar iyos, meeWveba, mokle vadaSi ki mas SeeZleba, evrokavSirTan molaparakeba awarmoos. . .
– sagareo sakiTxsac SevexoT. aris saubari, rom SesaZloa, qveyanas vizaliberalizacia SeuCeron. . .
– es im SemTxvevaSi, Tuki arCevnebi gayalbda da mTavrobam moaxerxa Zalauflebis kvlav xelSi Cagdeba. naklebad savaraudoa, rom maT arCevnebi legitimurad moigon. Tu xelisuflebam Zalaufleba marTla xelSi Caigdo, es, maRali albaTobiT, Seexeba rogorc vizaliberalizacias, ise yvelafer sxvas. . . martivad rom vTqvaT, saqarTvelo ar aris is saxelmwifo, romelsac SeuZlia evrokavSirTan daSorebas gauZlos. saqarTvelo didwilad, yovelTvis, 30 wlis ganmavlobaSi, iyo aqedan dotaciaze myofi qveyana, dasavleTidan iReben Zalian bevrs, amiT arsebobda da axla dasavleTis Camnacvlebeli praqtikulad, aravin iqneba.
– ukrianis omi ra stadiaSia?
– ukrianis omi saqarTveloze Zalian did zegavlenas axdens. vnaxeT, rom ruseTis armia sami wlis ganmavlobaSi sabrZolo moqmedebebSi araerTxel damarcxda, ukve or Tveze metia, ruseTis teritoriebic ki okupirebulia. bolo erTi welia, ruseTs aqvs uwyveti Setevis cikli, gansakuTrebiT doneckis olqSi, magram amave dros vxedavT, es cikli ar aris damagvirgvinebeli da omis momgebi imitom, rom ukve sami welia ruseTi cdilobs doneckis olqSi sabrZolo moqmedebebi awarmoos. saxelmwifo, romelic ambobda, rom msoflioSi meorea, sami welia doneckis olqSi erTi patara olqis dapyrobas cdilobs. miuxedavad imisa, rom ukrainelebi axla Tavdacvis reJimSi arian, maT hyavT Zalian didi raodenobiT rezervi, axal-axali brigadebi da am brigadebis gamoyenebas 2025 wels aucileblad Seecdebian.
– dabolos, aris Tu ara oqtombris saparlamento arCevnebi istoriuli mniSvnelobis?
– istoriuli mniSvnelobis aris im gagebiT, rom es yvelaferi, pirvel rigSi, Seexeba saqarTvelos sagareo politikas. rodesac amboben, rom es arCevnebi referendumia, mTlad araswori ganmarteba ar aris, radgan grZelvadianad Tu SevxedavT, arCevnebis Sedegad SeiZleba saqarTveloSi miviRoT demokratia da proevropuli kursi an avtokratia da prorusuli kursi. aqedan gamomdinare, 26 oqtombris arCevnebi saqarTvelosTvis gadamwyvetia. Tu arCevnebma Caiara Zalian cudad, sanqciebi ar agvcdeba, xolo Tu saqarTvelom aCvena kargi saarCevno Sedegi, ramac SeiZleba uzrunvelyos Sansebi qveynis evrokavSirTan daaxloebis TvalsazrisiT, Cvenc iseve dagvexmarebian saxelmwifos ganviTarebaSi, rogorc moldovas exmarebian. gaCndeba SesaZlebloba, miviRoT kidev ukeTesi sxva bevri ram!