მივაღწევთ თუ არა მსოფლიოს ახალ მართლწესრიგს მშვიდობიანი გზით?
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
analitikosebi acxadeben, rom dRes msoflio dgas mijnaze – mimdinareobs axali marTlwesrigis damyarebis procesi. es ganpirobebulia sxvadasxva sayuradRebo da mniSvnelovani movleniT, risi gamoZaxiliცაა ruseT-ukrainis omi, axlo aRmosavleTSi mimdinare procesebiT. am etapze SemaSfoTebelia iran-israelis dapirispireba. aRsaniSnavia CineTis roli da funqcia saerTaSoriso politikaSi. es mniSvnelovani sakiTxebia – SeZlebs Tu ara msoflio Tanamegobroba, daZlios gamowvevebi da axal marTlwesrigs mSvidobiani gziT miaRwios. . . es garkveulwilad damokidebulia msoflio politikis aqtorebze, maT principul pozicias gadamwyveti mniSvneloba aqvs ukrainis da maT Soris postsabWoTa qveynebis saocnebo momavlisTvis. . . am da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba bsu-is iuridiul da socialur mecnierebaTa fakultetis dekani, saerTaSoriso samarTlis specialisti levan jayeli.
– msoflios axali wesrigi dResdReobiT aqtualuri sakiTxia, amdenad, sainteresoa misi analizi sabWoTa kavSiris daSlidan dRemde. . .
– sabWoTa kavSiris daSlam ganapiroba saubrebis dawyeba imaze, rom saWiroa msoflio wesrigis gadaxedva. aravis hqonda imis iluzia, rom sabWoTa kavSiri, rogorc aqtori, gaqreboda msoflio arenidan da SenarCundeboda raRac paritetuli sawyisebi. yvelas esmoda, rom es sicariele didxans ver gagrZeldeboda. sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Semdeg, arc oponentebma aRiares ruseTis samarTalmemkvidreoba da arc partniorebma miiRes igi saTanado donis resursebis da siZlieris mqoned. Sesabamisad, marTlwesrigis gadaxedvis winapiroba momwifda imitom, rom moulodneli ganviTareba hpova sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Sedegad ganviTarebulma saerTaSoriso movlenebma. xazgasmiT aRvniSnav, rom axali msoflio wesrigi aucilebeli piroba, obieqturi saWiroebaa imitom, rom ar gamarTlda arc ruseTis ambicia da arc dasavleTis swrafvebi da molodinebi, rom daiSleboda sabWoTa kavSiri da maTi hegemonia Seuvali da ukonkurento iqneboda.
– rogor moqmedebs ruseT-ukrainis omi axali msoflio wesrigis formirebaze?
– ruseT-ukrainis oms me davarqmevdi am procesis gvirgvins imitom, rom isini usisxlod, mSvidobianad ver SeTanxmdnen axal msoflio wesrigze. aqedan gamomdinare, ruseTi gamouval mdgomareobaSi aRmoCnda, misi roli da funqciebi saerTaSoriso arenaze rom eRiarebinaT, mas dasWirda am zomebisTvis miemarTa, rac, cxadia, ukanonoa. rogorc cnobilia, Tavis droze kondoliza raiss medvedevma SesTavaza msoflios xelaxali gadanawileba. kondoliza raisi imdenad Tavdajerebuli iyo, rom uari uTxra da aSS-ma miiRo am uaris Sedegi jer siriaSi, mere ukrainaSi, msoflios sxvadasxva wertilSi, sadac dResac mimdinareobs konfliqtebi.
– aSkaraa, rom msoflio mravalpolusiania, am mxriv aSS-s, evrokavSirs, CineTs da ruseTs evraziul sivrceSi ra interesebi amoZravebT da erTmaneTis mimarT ra zomebs mimarTaven?
– dRes msoflios saxelmwifoebi gayofilia, maTi erTi nawili politikur gavlenebze, meore ki ekonomikur interesebzea orientirebuli. ruseTi da misi banaki ideologiurad damuxtulia politikuri gavlenis mosapoveblad garkveul saxelmwifoebsa da erebze, maSin roca dasavleTs, aSS-s, CineTs politikurTan erTad ekonomikuri keTildReoba ainteresebT. CineTi fiqrobs, rom ekonomikuri siZlieriT SeZlebs politikur procesebSi monawileobas, aSS ki pirdapir afiqsirebs, rom ekonomikur interesebze orientirebuli qveyanaa. Sesabamisad, dRes msoflioSi mimdinare procesebs Tu davakvirdebiT, Cndeba kiTxva – ra interesebi amoZravebs ruseTs? vfiqrob, esaa politikuri gavlena, miuxedavad yvela xarjisa, is nebismier saxsrebs kvlav gaiRebs, oRond SeinarCunos Tavisi politikuri gavlena, damorCilebuli da okupirebuli teritoriebi, xalxi. klasikuri gagebiT, ruseTi imperiaa, xolo amerikas ainteresebs megobrebad wodebuli partniorebi, romlebic amerikul investiciebs da ekonomikas aZliereben.
– rogor fiqrobT, CineTs ramdenad gamouva msoflio politikaSi mTavari rolis Sesruleba?
– CineTs politikuri gavlenebi imdenad ainteresebs, ramdenadac ekonomikuri berketebi. albaT SemdgomSi, samomavlo perspeqtivaSi, politikur interesebsac gamoxatavs. isic aRsaniSnavia, rom CineTs gaaCnia garkveuli teritoriuli miswrafebebic. . . vfiqrob, rom CineTi did politikur moTamaSed aTi wlis ganmavlobaSi ver mogvevlineba, magram Tu samomavlod ekonomikuri potenciali amis SesaZleblobas miscems, ra Tqma unda, politikur miznebzec ifiqrebs.
– analitikosebi acxadeben, rom CineTs awyobs ruseT-dasavleTis dapirispireba. . .
– amRvreul wyalSi Tevzis Wera advilia. CineTi am principiT xelmZRvanelobs. mas gaaCnia ekonomikuri interesebi da amJamad igi mogebuli rCeba.
– naTelia, rom msoflioSi arseboben saxelmwifoebi, romlebic ar emorCilebian saerTaSoriso samarTlis normebs, ras akeTebs gaero saxelmwifoebis suverenitetis dasacavad?
– gaeros Seqmna ganpirobebuli iyo molaparakebebis sivrcis Sesaqmnelad, demokratiis erTgvar Suqurad, raTa aq erTmaneTs Sexvedrodnen sxvadasxva civilizaciis, sxvadasxva interesis saxelmwifoebi da mieRwiaT garkveuli kompromisebisTvis. gaero ara imisTvis, rom daesaja vinme, aramed balansisTvis Seiqmna. man garantorebic Seqmna, anu moqmedi sabWos xuTi wevri organo, magram sabWoTa kavSiris daSlis Semdeg balansi aqac dairRva. aSS-s arasamarTlianad miaCnda da sxva qveynebisTvisac gaCnda kiTxva – imsaxurebs Tu ara ruseTi adgils am uSiSroebis sabWoSi. ruseTi, ra Tqma unda, Tvlis, rom imsaxurebs. am sakiTxSic banakebad daiyo msoflio. . . gaeros axla sWirdeba axali realobis gaTvaliswineba, axal gamowvevebze pasuxis gacema, axali msoflio wesrigis dabalanseba, radgan dRes kvlavac Cans, Tu raoden did rols TamaSobs SeiaraRebuli Zalebi. aqedan gamomdinare, rTulia, aiZulo saxelmwifo, daicvas saerTaSoriso samarTlis formaluri wesebi maSin, roca SeuZlia is daangrios, amis garantias xom birTvuli potenciali aZlevs. faqti erTia, rom gaeros gavlenebi, roli da funqcia ukve Secvlilia da saWiroebs gadaxedvas. ufro metsac getyviT, roca erT-erTi saxelmwifos lideri bedavs da gaeros generaluri mdivnis mimarT madiskreditirebel gancxadebas akeTebs, amiT naTladaa naTqvami, Tu ra damokidebulebaa gaeros mimarT.
– gverds ver avuvliT ukrainas, faqtobrivad, konfliqti xangrZlivi omis da monawileTa gamofitvis fazaSia gadasuli. . .
– ruseTis mxridan Tu SevxedavT, ra Tqma unda, omi gaxangrZlivda, radgan igi omis dasrulebas dReebSi Tu ara, ramdenime kviraSi mainc gegmavda. ukrainis mxridan es omi gaxangrZlivebuli ar aris, igi ibrZvis Tavisi samarTliani intersebisTvis, gadarCenisTvis da Sesabamisad, misTvis yoveli dRe aris imis dasturi, rom Seswevs aseT did samxedro manqanasTan dapirispirebisa da gadarCenis Zala. mTavari isaa, rom yoveli dRe ruseTis winaaRmdeg muSaobs, gamoCnda, rom ruseTis siZliere sapnis buStia, misi potenciali miTia da is namdvilad egzistencialuri gamowvevebis winaSe dgas imitom, rom Tu ukrainaze wamoikra fexi, maSin natos blokSi Semaval da ufro maRali potencialis mqone saxelmwifoebTan dasapirispireblad misi SesaZleblobebi minimaluria.
– ra unda iRonos dasavleTma, rom es omi ukrainis sasargeblod dasruldes?
– ar miatovos ukraina, ar uTxras uari samxedro daxmarebaze. gaeros wesdebiT wevr qveynebs TavisTavad akisriaT valdebuleba, rom daexmaron yvela saxelmwifos TavdacvaSi, Sesabamisad, aSS-is politika (ruseTis siRrmeSi misi iaraRis gamoyeneba, ukrainas ekrZaleba) aramarTebulia. es sakiTxi ar unda idges dRis wesrigSi imitom, rom Tavdacva niSnavs yvela resursis gamoyenebas, rac ukrainis gadarCenas Seuwyobs xels (aq igulisxmeba samxedro obieqtebze ieriSi). ruseTi ar erideba mSvidobiani moqalaqeebis awiokebasac, ris gamoc amitom araTanabar pirobebSi imyofebian mxareebi. amitom CemTvis aSS-is logika gaugebaria. ruseTs ra borotebis Cadenac SeeZlo, yvelaferi gaakeTa.
– aris mosazreba, rom SesaZloa ruseTma birTvuli iaraRi gamoiyenos. . .
– aseT versias arsebobis ufleba aqvs da, cxadia, rom ruseTi amaze fiqrobs. Tu Cven amaze vsaubrobT aq, baTumis saxelmwifo universitetis erT-erT patara auditoriaSi, TavisTavad, kremlis did kabinetebsa da vaSingtonis TeTri saxlis ovalur kabinetSi amaze ukve gacilebiT mets fiqroben da aanalizeben. me sxva rameze maqvs saubari: Tu ruseTi gamoiyenebs birTvul iaraRs, maSin sxva saxelmwifoc ase moiqcev. ruseTi gadarCenis perspeqtivaze xom fiqrobs da realurad icis, rom birTvuli iaraRi wiTeli xazia. anu mrgval magidasTan dajdomis da molaparakebis dro aRar iqneba. Sesabamisad, ruseTi kargad acnobierebs, rom reagireba misi mxridan birTvuli iaraRis, Tundac taqtikuris, gamoyenebaze misTvis damRupvelia, amitom ar awyobs birTvuli iaraRis gamoyeneba. icis, ra Sedegi mohyveba amas. kremlSi evropel da amerikel Tanamdebobis pirebze naklebad ar fiqroben sakuTar keTildReobaze, garemosa da usafrTxoebaze, isini ar arian mzad, uari Tqvan an dakargon es komfortuli pirobebi.
– israel-iranis garTulebul urTierTobaze minda gkiTxoT, ramdenad realuria, es konfliqti birTvul omSi gadaizardos?
– winapirobebi da safrTxe didia. realurad, ruseT-ukrainaze meti safrTxe aq aris, radgan israels garSemo arabuli samyaro Aakravs. es istoriuli dapirispirebaa da maT swamT, rom erT mSvenier dRes, SeZleben israelis ganadgurebas, ris sapirispirod israelma SeiZleba birTvuli iaraRic ki gamoiyenos. mas amis mzaoba gaaCnia, is ar emorCileba arc gaeros da arc amerikas. israeli TviTgadarCenisTvis ibrZvis, magram ra gzebiTa da meTodebiT, es aris sakiTxavi, Tumca ramdenad SeuZlia sxva gzebiT am Sedegis mokle vadebSi miRweva, es sxva sakiTxia.
– rogor aisaxeba aSS-is saprezidento arCevnebi globalur politikaSi?
– me am sakiTxs rogorc dadebiTad, ise uaryofiTad vafaseb. ver vityvi erTmniSvnelovnad, rom aSS-is roli aris dadebiTi, aseve, ver vityvi, rom misi roli uaryofiTia imitom, rom namdvilad saWiroa amerikuli faqtori, raTa calkeulma saxelmwifoebma ver iboginon, anu patara erebi ar daiCagron. magaliTad, aSS Tavis miznebs dialogiT da sakeTildReo pirobebiT aRwevs, maSin roca ruseTi amas SeiaraRebuli ZalebiT cdilobs, anu uxeSi ZaliT surs, daarwmunos fsevdoTanamSromlobaSi. . . mokled, amerikas SeuZlia gacilebiT pozitiuri roli iTamaSos, vidre amJamad TamaSobs.
– dasavlur mediaSi gavrcelda informacia, rom trampi, gaprezidentebis SemTxvevaSi, ukrainas ruseTs dauTmobs, ramdenad safuZvliania msgavsi informaciebi?
– trampis gancxadebiT ar keTdeba aSS-is politika, miT ufro – globaluri. amerika sistemuri marTvis qveyanaa, aq erTi prezidenti verafers gadawyvets. senati, kongresi, samoqalaqo sazogadoeba amerikaSi Zlieria, isini prezidents ar apatieben iseTi monapovris dakargvas, romelic Taobebma moipoves – avtoritetis, imijis. . . axla, trampis dros, aSS-ma ratom unda gaauferulos amxela roli da damsaxureba msoflioSi?! tramps mouwevs Zalian didi Zalisxmeva, rom rasac dahpirda amomrCevlebs saarCevno kampaniis dros, imis raRac nawili mainc Seasrulos.
– dabolos, ruseT-ukrainis omis Sedegi ramdenad gansazRvravs msoflio wesrigs da ra elis saqarTvelos?
– am omis dasrulebis Semdeg daiwyeba saubari msoflios axal wesrigze, romelic gavrceldeba israelis da arabuli samyaros urTierTobebzec. rac Seexeba Cvens qveyanas, gaaCnia Sida qveynis mdgomareobas, Sida balanss, politikuri partiebis gavlenebs, maT aqtivobebs, ras airCeven, ra gzas daadgeba saqarTvelo. Cvenma qveyanam sagareo politikaSi aucileblad mniSvnelovani adgili unda daikavos, Tavisi interesebi mkafiod gansazRvros, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, SeiZleba davkargoT saerTaSoriso partniorebi, davkargoT mxardaWera, romlis meSveobiT dinamikurad vviTardebiT. rogorc ki gare Zalebis mxardaWeras davkargavT, CaveflobiT Sida problemebSi da kidev aTobiT weli dagvWirdeba Sida gamowvevebis dasaZlevad, rom movicaloT sagareo urTierTobebisTvis. . . am wuTSi ar varT ukanaskneli saxelmwifo, Cven varT angariSgasawevi qveyana regionSi, ufro metic, Cven politikuri, mecnieruli, kulturuli da sportuli miRwevebi gvaZlevs saSualebas, rom viyoT lideri qveyana, romelsac mizidulobis Zala gaaCnia. CvenTvis damRupveli iqneba am mizidulobis Zalis dakargva da im wertilze dabruneba, saidanac yvelaferi Tavidan unda daviwyoT. amitom Ria unda viyoT mezoblebTan saTanamSromlod, amaSi Tavisi wvlili mosaxleobam unda iTamaSos, romelmac mkafiod unda icodes – ra surs da gaakeTos arCevani!