,,მოხდება თავისუფალი სამყაროს და სიბნელის იმპერიის გადამწყვეტი შერკინება”

მარიამ ხითარიშვილი 27 48 93 –

mimdinare omSi qimiuri da biologiuri iaraRis gamoyenebis SesaZleblobaze, am iaraRis daniSnulebaze, saqarTveloSi arsebul lugaris laboratoriasa da baTumis Sualedur arCevnebze saubrobs `evropuli saqarTvelos~ mdivani, aWaris organizaciis Tavmjdomare, eqimi
vaxtang kaloiani, romelsac miuReblad miaCnia `patriotTa aliansis~ xelmZRvanelTa moskovSi gamgzavreba da am faqts Ralatad afasebs.
– rogor afasebT saqarTvelos mTavrobis pozicias ukraina-ruseTis omTan mimarTebaSi?
– mTavrobis pozicia am omTan mimarTebaSi aris araTanmimdevruli da saxifaTo. Tavi davaneboT moralur mxares, sufTa pragmatulad, CvenTvis friad mniSvnelovania ukrainasTan da mTel dasavlur samyarosTan Zlieri, saimedo TanamSromloba da stabiluri mokavSireoba. saqarTvelos xelisuflebis ritorika ki sakmaod sazianoa. aseve saxifaToa Cveni mTavrobis damokidebuleba sanqciebTan da ormagi daniSnulebis tvirTebTan mimarTebaSi, romlis eqsporti, SesaZloa ruseTSi ganxorcieldes.
– amaze xom gaakeTa gancxadeba premierma?
– ki. am bolos mis mier gakeTebuli gancxadeba, SedarebiT ukeTesia, magram unda moayolos konkretuli nabijebi, kerZod, mTavrobis 372-e da 394-e dadgenilebebSi Sesabamisi cvlilebebis Setanaa aucilebeli, raTa am gancxadebas mieces realuri Sinaarsi.
– biologiur laboratoriebze dezinformaciis gavrcelebas da gamoyenebas ruseTi wlebia cdilobs saqarTveloSi. mainc ras warmoadgens lugaris laboratoria da ra datvirTva aqvs samedicino sferoSi?
– es aris rusuli propagandis tipuri nimuSi, anu rac ufro did sisuleles, sigiJes da tyuils ityvi, miT ufro damajereblad gamoiyureba. lugaris laboratoria aris Ria, samedicino, samecniero jandacvis dawesebuleba, romelic ar ixureba aravisTvis arasdros. iq mimdinare procesebic sajaroa da is dezinformacia, rac rusuli arxebidan momdinareobs, absoluturi absurdia. es cnobebi, ZiriTadad, Sida auditoriisTvisaa gankuTvnili, romelsac jandacvis arc erTi muSaki seriozulad ar aRiqvams.
– ramdenad mosalodnelia ruseTis Tavdasxma saqarTveloze. kuluarebSi gaiJRera informaciam, rom maRal samxedro eSelonebSi emzadebian msgavsi scenarisTvis?
– samwuxarod, unda gvaxsovdes, rom ruseTi ukve saqarTveloSia – rogorc afxazeTSi, ise cxinvalis regionSi da sakmaod Rrmad aris `Cadgmuli~ Sida qarTlSi, es ukve Semdgari faqtia. rac Seexeba samxedro agresiis kidev axal talRas, am etapze amis riskebi, ra Tqma unda, aris. ruseTi, rogorc araprognozirebadi, teroristi qveyana, aravin icis, rodis ras gaakeTebs.
– Tuki Tavs dagvesxa?
– mxolod da mxolod dasavlel partniorebTan TanamSromloba, maTTan kavSiri gviSvelis. amave dros, aucilebelia TavdacvisTvis mzadeba.
– anu 2008 wlis procesebis ganmeorebas gulisxmobT?
– araviTar SemTxvevaSi. me ar vgulisxmob aranair samxedro Tu sxva tipis provokaciaze wamogebas, rac SeiZleba nebismier wams ganaxorcielos ruseTma, magram sakuTari qveynis da moqalaqeebis TavdacvisTvis momzadeba, rogorc sagareo, ise saSinao asparezze, Cveni erT-erTi udidesi amocanaa msoflioSi arsebul am urTules situaciaSi.
– didi britaneTis Tavdacvis ministri acxadebs, rom ruseTis Semdegi SesaZlo nabijia qimiuri an biologiuri iaraRis gamoyeneba. Tu SegiZliaT, detalurad agvixsnaT, ras niSnavs es?
– biologiuri iaraRis gamoyeneba niSnavs im mikroorganizmebis samxedro wesiT gavrcelebas, romelmac SesaZloa, gamoiwvios moqalaqeebis masiuri daavadmyofeba, dazianeba. arsebobs xelSekrulebebi, romliTac ruseTma Tavis Tavze aiRo biologiuri iaraRis ganadgurebis valdebuleba, magram rogorc sxvas, ise am konvenciasac is ar asrulebs. aqedan gamomdinare, kremlis brZanebiT, biologiuri iaraRis gamoyeneba gamoricxuli ar aris. gavrcelebuli informaciis Tanaxmad, ukrainaSi ruseTma ukve gamoiyena qimiuri iaraRis erT-erTi saxeoba. sabednierod, jerjerobiT, masiurad – ara, Tumca im marcxis pirobebSi, rac man am omSi iwvnia, moskovisgan araadamianuri da pirvel rigSi, sakuTari xalxisTvis damRupveli nabijebis gadadgmac ar aris gamoricxuli.
– ukrainis prezidentis ofisis xelmZRvanelis mrCeveli mixailo podoliaki varaudobs, rom zelenskisa da putinis Sexvedra Sedgeba donbasSi `didi brZolis~ Semdeg. ra iciT am frontis Sesaxeb, romelzec, meore msoflio omis Semdeg, yvelaze didmasStabiani brZola gaimarTeba?
– Zalian bevri seriozuli, sando, kvalificiuri analitikosis azri SegviZlia movisminoT am brZolis Sesaxeb sajaro sainformacio sivrceSi. faqti aris, rom ruseTi cdilobs mTeli Zalebis koncentrirebas doneckSi. man ukve gaiyvana sajariso nawilebi Cernigovidan da kievidan doneckis, luganskis da xarkovis mimarTulebiT, raTa aq gaxsnil frontze miiRos gadamwyveti upiratesoba. orive mxaris samxedro kolonebi daiZra CrdiloeT ukrainidan da miemarTeba aRmosavleTisken. savaraudod, ramdenime dRis, an kviris ganmavlobaSi, iq Sedgeba didi brZola, rac mobilizebuli resursebidanac kargad Cans. imedi unda viqonioT, moxdeba Tavisufali samyaros da sibnelis imperiis gadamwyveti Serkineba, romelic albaT, sabolood gaarkvevs am agresiuli samxedro avanturis beds.
– zogierTi analitikosi ukrainelebis gamarjvebas arc ki uSvebs.
– me ar daveTanxmebi maT, radgan ukrainelebma msoflios aCvenes udidesi suliskeTeba. maTi SeiaraRebuli Zalebi kvalificiurad da efeqturad axerxeben aqamde daumarcxebel rus jariskacebTan gamklavebas sxvadasxva taqtikuri sqemis gamoyenebiT, rac adasturebs ukrainis samxedro nawilebis da maTi generaluri samxedro Stabis maRal kvalifikacias. calke aRniSvnis Rirsia ukrainelebis samoqalaqo gmiroba. yvelaferma erTad, ar misca saSualeba am gaveSebul urdos, daepyro CrdiloeT ukraina, rusebs mouwia iqidan gasvla. axla ecdebian doneckis da luganskis regionebSi moipovon gamarjveba da `gayidon~ rogorc ukrainaSi omis warmatebuli omi. Seicvala ukrainis brZolebis mimarTulebaze pasuxismgebeli rusuli sardloba, rac mosalodneli iyo. es metyvelebs ukrainaSi wamowyebuli samxedro konfliqtis warumateb-lobaze Tavdasxmis pirvel fazaSi. imedi viqonioT, dasavleTis samxedro, teqnikuri da finansuri mxardaWeriT, gmiri ukraineli samxedroebisgan ruseTis SeiaraRebuli Zalebi uzarmazar dartymas miiRebs.
– vmaspinZlobT ukrainel ltolvilebs. amasTan dakavSirebiT ras gvetyodiT?
– baTumma, rogorc mTelma saqarTvelom, Riad, didi siyvaruliT da mzrunvelobiT miiRo ukrainelebi, romlebic iZulebulni gaxdnen, gamoqceodnen iq arsebul tragikul viTarebas. yvela maTgani uzrunvelyofilia biniT, sakvebiT, jandacvis servisebiT. ar SemiZlia ar aRvniSno erTi baTumeli kacis – geno TebiZis udidesi Sroma am mimarTulebiT. igi yvelasgan gamorCeulad, sakuTari ojaxis wevrebiviT uvlis am adamianebs. yvela moqalaqe, partiuli kuTvnilebis da politikuri simpatiebis miuxedavad, cdilobs daexmaros ukrainel ltolvilebs da uzadod umaspinZlos Cvens stumarTmoyvare, ulamazes qalaqSi.
aqve aRvniSnav, rom sakmaod didi moculobis humanitarul tvirTs vagzavniT ukrainaSi. qarTulma sazogadoebam da konkretulad, baTumma, am kuTxiT Zalian mniSvnelovani magaliTi aCvena, rac pativsacemi da dasafasebelia. es aris Cvens mier Setanili mcire wvlili ukraineli megobrebis gamarjvebaSi, romelsac male vizeimebT. aqve moviyvan statistikur monacemebsac, saqarTvelo 191 qveyanas Soris pirvel adgilzea ukrainisTvis 400 tona humanitaruli tvirTis miwodebiT. Sesabamis oficialur monacemebs ukrainis saxelmwifo fosta – UU aqveynebs. amave uwyebis cnobiT, saqarTvelo im 14 qveyanas Sorisac dasaxelda, romelic fizikur da iuridiul pirebs aZlevs saSualebas, ufasod gaagzavnon safosto gzavnilebi (amanaTebi) ukrainis mimarTulebiT, maTTvis sasurvel adresatebTan.
– Tqven Tavad monawileobdiT baTumis TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebis pirvel turSi da cxadia, Tvalyurs adevnebdiT Sualeduri arCevnebis mimdinareobas. rogor SeafasebT opoziciis damarcxebas im ubanSi, romelic manamde moigo?
– aq ramdenime garemoebam iTamaSi didi roli, maT Soris, opoziciis Secdomebma da poziciis Zalian uxeSma, arakanonierma Carevam. magaliTad, 1000 moqalaqis saarCevno ubnebSi Caweras. bevri iyo maTgan xulos raionidan. mTeli administraciuli resursi gamoiyenes da neba, romelic gamoxata TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi baTumis mosaxleobis 60%-ma – ar Seesabameba miRebul Sedegs.
– amas xelisuflebas abralebT?
– xelisufleba cdilobs Zalauflebis SenarCunebas da yvelafers akeTebs ukanono gzebiT. imuqreba parlamentis Tavmjdomarec, man daaanonsa, rom kidev ramdenime municipalitets gadatexaven welSi, magram minda viyo TviTkritikuli da damarcxebaSi opoziciis garkveul taqtikur Secdomebzec mivuTiTo.
– mainc ra Secdomebs gulisxmobT? rogorc wesi, opozicias ar uyvars sakuTar xarvezebze saubari. . .
– Secdomebi iyo am arCevnebis kampaniis pirvelive turSi, teqnikuri xarvezebic SeiniSneboda, rac xelisuflebam maSinve gamoiyena. opoziciam unda SeZlos gamaerTianebeli ideis SeTavazeba Cveni moqalaqeebisTvis da iseTi warmatebis mopoveba, romelsac ver moiparavs `qarTuli ocneba~, ubralod, aRar eyofa amisTvis arc teqnikuri da arc administraciuli resursi. samwuxarod, is zewola, rac nugzar futkaraZeze ganxorcielda, iyo Zalian amoraluri. xelisuflebam SeZlo am mZime brZolaSi uweso meTodebiT, sakrebulos Semadgenlobis sakuTar mxareze gardatexa. me mainc vitoveb imeds, opozicia SeZlebs baTumis sakrebuloSi sakuTari poziciebis myarad SenarCunebas, radgan arsebobs amis iuridiuli da teqnikuri saSualebebi. vnaxoT, ra iqneba, brZola wavageT, magram omi ar dasrulebula, yvelaferi win aris.
– okupirebuli cxinvalis regionSi de faqto saprezidento arCevnebi mimdinareobs, romelsac referendumic mohyveba. . .
– okupirebul teritoriaze Catarebul arCevnebs da referendums, aranairi iuridiuli Zala ar gaaCnia. saboloo aneqsiisTvis putini ra gzas gamoiyenebs, amas araviTari mniSvneloba ar aqvs. ganmsazRvreli aris Cveni mzaoba, saqarTvelos saxelmwifos siZliere. mxolod es Secvlis afxazeTisa da Sida qarTlis moqalaqeebis pozicias da ara is, ra Sedegebs gaaformeben da ras Caweren saokupacio reJimSi Catarebul arCevnebSi. kidev erTxel vimeoreb, ra Sedegebic ar unda `dados~ kremlma, Zala ar eqneba. amaze ukve gancxadebebi gaakeTes Cvenma dasavlelma partniorebma – aSS-is saelCom, britaneTma, evrokavSirma, baltiispireTis qveynebma da sxv. maT kidev erTxel dagvidastures, rom saqarTvelos teritoriuli mTlianoba uryevia, marto ar varT da Cvens gverdiT dadgebian qveynis ruseTis nebismieri avanturisgan dasacavad. aqve aRvniSnav, rom Sida qarTlisgan gansxvavebiT, afxazeTSi sxva viTarebaa. iqauri sazogadoeba ar aris mzad ruseTTan sruli asimilaciisTvis. ra Tqma unda, garkveul safuZvels itovebs efeqturi TanamSromlobisTvis, Tumca yvelaferi isev da isev qarTul saxelmwifozea damokidebuli – ramdenad mimzidveli da saimedo partniori iqneba rogorc dasavleTisTvis, ise soxumisa da cxinvalisTvis.
– dabolos, irma inaSvilis da misi gundis Sesaxeb ras ityviT?
– es aris klasikuri Ralati, mexuTe kolonisTvis damaxasiaTebeli Cveulebrivi saqcieli, romelic kritikas ver uZlebs. axla mimdinareobs konkurencia `patriotTa alianssa~ da `alt-infos~ Soris, romeli ufro warmatebuli favoriti iqneba ruseTis karze da met dafinansebas miiRebs. amaTi pozicia karga xania gasagebia da kremlTan saubari, Tundac neitralitetze, Camogavs kravis mgelTan dialogs. es moRalatis qmedebebis SefuTvas mogvagonebs, ris ukanac dgas Riad deklarirebuli rusuli interesebi.