ორჰან ბერიძე: საზღვრებს მიღმა უფრო დიდი საქართველოა

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`gaxsovdes, xis simaRle miwis zemodan ki ar izomeba – fesvebidan. Seni fesvebi iq aris, saqarTveloSi“. ase SeiZleba daviwyoT saubari qarTveli muhajirebis STamomavlebze, romlebsac es sityvebi yvelaze zustad esadagebaT. maT namdvilad axsovT sakuTari fesvebic, saqarTveloc Zalian uyvarT da memleqeTze fiqric ar asvenebT.
muhajiroba Cveni qveynis istoriaSi erT-erTi urTulesi periodia. ruseTis imperiis miTiTebiT, aWarlebis nawili iZulebiT osmaleTSi gadaixvewa, Tumca maT SeinarCunes mTavari – ena, tradiciebi da samSoblos siyvaruli, rasac aWareli muhajirebis STamomavlebi dResac agrZeleben.
TurqeTeli qarTvelebi, romlebic gurjebad moixsenieben sakuTar Tavs, yovelTvis sixaruliT egebebian saqarTvelodan Casul adamianebs da mokiTxvasa da did siyvaruls atanen samSobloSi. sakuTari gamocdilebidan vityvi, rom maTTan Sexvedra, did bednierebasTan erTad, udidesi sevdis momgvrelia.
gurjebi xSirad ikribebian, erTmaneTs Cveneburebs uwodeben, uziareben saqarTvelos sixarulsa Tu tkivils. xelixelCakidebulni, urTierTdaxmarebiTa da imediT agrZeleben cxovrebas meore samSobloSi. me yvelas siyvaruliT movikiTxav memleqeTidan da vetyvi, rom Cven eTni varT da amas veraferi Secvlis.
Cveni stumaria orhan beriZe, TurqeTSi dabadebuli qarTvelis me-4 Taobis warmomadgeneli. misi fesvebi qedidan modis, axla ki stambolSi cxovrobs. is Cveni qveynisa da TurqeTeli qarTvelebisTvis bevr sasikeTo saqmes akeTebs. saocrad daxvewilad saubrobs qarTulad, romelic 45 wlis asakSi iswavla.
– winaprebiT daviwyoT, ras yvebodnen isini saqarTveloze?
– Cemi winaprebi 1877-1878 wlebSi, osmaleT-ruseTis omis Semdeg, TurqeTSi gadasaxldnen, qalaq giresunSi. me mamaCemis xelSi gavizarde. igi xSirad mesaubreboda saqarTveloze. winaprebze mogonebebi Setanili maqvs Cems wignSi `saukunis sevda~. bavSvobisas sofelSi vizrdebodi, maSindel droSi televizori ar iyo, mxolod radio gvqonda. mamaCems uyvarda radios mosmena. xandaxan gadacemebi rusul enazec gadioda, radgan Cveni qalaqi teritoriulad axlos iyo maSindel ruseTis imperiasTan. mama gvafrTxilebda, `bavSvebo, Tqveni Wirime, cota uxmod iyaviT, SeiZleba erTi-ori qarTuli sityvac gaismas da movisminoo~. igi monatrebuli iyo qarTul saubars. wlebis Semdeg me mas amayad veubnebi: `Sen ar inerviulo, mamaCemo, dadga dro da Cven viswavleT is oriode uZvirfasesi qarTuli sityva – `dedaena~ da `dedasamSoblo~.
– rodis CamoxvediT pirvelad memleqeTSi da ra emocia gqondaT, rodesac qarTul miwaze fexi dadgiT?
– es iyo 2009 wlis 23 aprils. pirvelad mivdiodi saqarTveloSi. Rame TeTrad damaTenda, Zalian vRelavdi… vfiqrobdi Cems winaprebze, romlebmac miwaSi Caitanes samSoblos usazRvro siyvaruli, misi monatreba, masTan Sexvedris survili da me, meoTxe Taoba, pirvelad unda Sevxvedrodi dedasamSoblos. es nanatri dRec dadga. stambolis aTaTurqis aeroportidan baTumSi Cavfrindi. cremliani vaTvalierebdi yvelafers. kontrolis wiTel xazze rigSi videqi da Tavi sizmarSi megona. Cemi rigic dadga. policiel qalbatons pasporti mivawode da Cemi gatexili qarTuliT vuTxari: gamarjoba! me qarTveli var, pirvelad davdgi fexi qarTul miwaze, Cven erTi sisxli da xorci varT, Sen Cemi naTesavi xar. cremli Rvarad Camomdioda, policielic atirda, beWedi Camirtya da gavigone nanatri sityvebi, romelsac mTeli cxovreba mouTmenlad velodebodi: mobrZandi Sens dedasamSobloSi!
– Tqven xSirad xvdebiT TurqeTel qarTvelebs, romlebic saqarTveloSi arasdros yofilan, ra ician maT saqarTveloze?
– TurqeTeli qarTvelebi saqarTvelos dedasamSoblod miiCneven. bevri maTgani saqarTveloSi yofila kidec. adre saqarTvelos Sesaxeb sakmarisi informacia ar hqondaT, axla ukve socialuri qselebis meSveobiT ecnobian qarTul kulturas. qarTvelma emigrantebmac didi wvlili Seitanes maT gacnobierebaSi, risTvisac madlobas vuxdi.
– ojaxSi qarTulad Tu saubrobT?
– vcdilobT, sul qarTulad visaubroT. me 3 Svili myavs. gogonebma ician qarTuli, magram arasakmarisad, biWs ki wera-kiTxva qarTulad me Sevaswavle. saubari uWirs, magram zepirad icis `vefxistyaosnidan~ strofebi da zurab gorgilaZis leqsi `hoida nana~.
– qarTveloba da samSoblos siyvaruli iqneb, saqarTveloSi mcxovrebma qarTvelma kacmac ver gaacnobieros da gaiTavisos ise, rogorc Tqven acnobierebT. ra niSnavs TqvenTvis samSoblo?
– samSoblo CemTvis aris deda. saqarTveloSi ise mxvdebian, rogorc saxlSi. vinmes rom vuTxra, saxli ar maqvs da gamaTevine-meTqi, didi siyvaruliT gamiReben ojaxis kars. me Cemi saqarTvelosTvis, saWiroebis SemTxvevaSi, Tavsac ki gavwirav.
– rogorc Tqveni mogonebebidan Cans, mama iyo TqvenTvis yvelaze didi avtoriteti, romelmac STagagonaT samSoblosa da qarTuli enis siyvaruli da 45 wlis asakSi iswavleT qarTuli. ram gadagawyvetinaT?
– Zalian didi survili mqonda, mcodnoda saqarTvelos Sesaxeb yvelaferi – misi istoria, kultura, zne-Cveulebebi, amisaTvis ki qarTulis kargad codna iyo saWiro. mizans mivaRwie. vkiTxulob `vefxistyaosans~, zogierTi Tavi zepiradac vici. aseve, vici bevri qarTveli poetis leqsi. Tvals vadevneb qarTul satelevizio arxebs, vakvirdebi qarTul politikaSi mimdinare movlenebs. Cven Zmebi varT, Zalian miyvars saqarTvelo. qarTveloba Cveni qolgaa. Zalian gvaxarebs isic, rom saqarTvelo Cveni amJamindeli samSoblos, TurqeTis, keTili mezobeli da megobari qveyanaa. gvjera, rom kavSiri saqarTvelosa da TurqeTs Soris kidev ufro ganmtkicdeba.
– Tqven stambolSi daaarseT SoTa rusTavelis kulturis centri. rodis gagiCndaT es idea da ra mizans emsaxureba?
– sxvadasxva qarTul asociaciaSi da megobrebTan naxevrad xumrobiT vsaubrobdi am TemasTan dakavSirebiT, magram dro gavida da xumroba WeSmaritebad vaqcie. qalbaton salome baramiZesa da kidev 5 adamianTan erTad, 2017 wels, TurqeTis mTavrobaSi gancxadeba Sevitane da asociaciis doneze davafuZneT stambolis SoTa rusTavelis saxelobis kulturis centri. am asociaciis dafuZnebis dros baTumidan, quTaisidan, Tbilisidan da saqarTvelos sxvadasxva kuTxidan, aseve, aq myofi emigrantebisgan didi mxardaWera vigrZeniT, risTvisac maT did madlobas vuxdiT. TurqeTSi ar icnoben qarTul kulturas da Cveni mizanic is aris, rom gavacnoT TurqeTel qarTvelebs maTi dedasamSoblo ufro ukeT. SoTa rusTavelis asociaciaSi ewyoba qarTuli Sexvedrebi, RonisZiebebi, aRvniSnavT erovnul dResaswaulebs, vmarTavT wignis prezentaciebs, emigrantebTan Sexvedrebs, qarTuli filmebis Turquli TargmaniT Cvenebebs da a.S. es asociacia namdvilad qarTul saqmes akeTebs.
– Soridan albaT ufro kargad Cans Cveni qveynis problema Tu sixaruli. . . gviambeT Tqveni TvaliT danaxul saqarTveloze. . .
– saqarTveloSi Zalian momwons stumarTmoyvareoba, adamianoba, siTbo, siyvaruli, ganaTleba, kultura. me bevri ram saqarTveloSi viswavle, magram yvelaze metad mtkens guls is, rom erTmaneTs ver itanen, gansakuTrebiT politikosebi. vurCev, rom xandaxan megobrulad erTad yava dalion. azrebs Soris gansxvaveba unda iyos, magram maTi uTanxmoebiT qveyana da xalxi ar unda daazaralon.
– qarTuli poeziis moyvaruli xarT da vityodi, rom SesaniSnavad kiTxulobT leqsebs. . .
– Cem mier leqsis wakiTxvas `sisxlis yivili~ hqvia. me poeti ar var, magram vgrZnob, rogor aris dawerili leqsi da ras emsaxureba. Cemi emociebiT wakiTxul leqsSi igrZnoba, Tu rogor miyvars Cemi saqarTvelo.
– apirebT saqarTveloSi dabrunebas?
– rogor ara, magram es ar aris ioli. jer emigrantebi unda davabrunoT saqarTveloSi. TurqeTeli qarTvelebis saqarTveloSi dabruneba rTulia, gansakuTrebiT enis barieris gamo. ar aqvs mniSvneloba, Cven sad vcxovrobT, radgan saqarTvelo marto saqarTveloSi ar aris – sazRvrebs miRma ufro didi saqarTveloa. mTavaria, qveyana demokratiulad ganviTardes da erTianoba iyos, danarCeni TavisTavad mova.
– ra gaqvT saTqmeli qarTvelebisTvis?
– Cveni bedisa da istoriis wyalobiT, qarTvelebi msoflios sxvadasxva qveyanaSi davibadeT da sxvadasxva kulturis wiaRSi gavizardeT. Sesabamisad, sxvadasxva mentalitetis matareblebi varT. Cven erTmaneTis mimarT ufro metad tolerantulebi unda viyoT da erTmaneTs pativi vceT. TurqeTSi mcxovrebi qarTvelebi mudmivad Tvals vadevnebT saqarTveloSi mimdinare movlenebs. qarTvel da-ZmebTan erTad gvaxarebs miRweuli warmatebebi da guls gvtkens jer kidev arsebuli problemebi. rac Seexeba saqarTvelos momavals, Zalian imedianad varT, rom saqarTvelo sabolood Camoyalibdeba rogorc erTiani, Zlieri, demokratiuli saxelmwifo. didad gvaxarebs bolo wlebSi saqarTvelosa da msoflioSi mcxovrebi qarTveli Tanamemamuleebis TurqeTSi, Cvenebur qarTvelebTan urTierToba. saqarTvelos sazRvrebi gulidan gulamdea qarTvelisTvis! amitomacaa usazRvro! gaumarjos dedasamSoblos! madloba RmerTs, rom qarTvelebi varT! da visac qarTveloba eTakileba, vai imas! vinc saqarTvelos ebrZvis, arc ki icis, rom damarcxebulia! gaumarjos Cvens megobrobas da naTesaobas! gaumarjos Cvens dedasaviT sayvarel saqarTvelos!