„საზოგადოება ჩვენგან ელოდება ერთობას, ერთად მოქმედებას“
laSa xomeriki 593 50 82 69 –
saqarTveloSi mimdinare procesebi kiTxvebs badebs rogorc saSinao, ise sagareo politikis TvalsazrisiT.
aqciebi, SimSiloba, polarizebuli garemo da urTierTqiSpi qarTuli politikis Tanmdevi nawilia, rac opoziciis azriT, gamowveulia arCevnebis gayalbebiT da xelisuflebis antidasavluri ritorikiT. Tavis mxriv, mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom axali arCevnebi 2028 wels gaimarTeba, evropuli kursi ki Seuqcevadia da mis gadaxedvas aravin apirebs. da mainc, rogoria realoba, ra unda gavakeToT axla da momavalSi? amis Taobaze gvesaubreba koalicia `Zlieri saqarTvelos~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri, baTumis sakrebulos wevri vaJa darCia.
– rogor afasebT bolo periodSi ganviTarebul procesebs?
– ukve 70 dReze metia, qveyanaSi viTardeba procesi, romlis msgavsi Cveni qveynis istoriaSi ar yofila. yoveldRiurad mimdinareobs aqciebi, gadaketilia rusTavelis prospeqti. aRsaniSnavia, rom protesti aris naklebad decentralizebuli. duRilis temperatura regionebSic sakmaod maRalia, mwvave protests gamoxataven baTumSic, aTobiT adamiani SimSilobs sxvadasxva municipalitetSi. mokled, qveyanaSi politikuri krizisia. warmoudgenelia, rom es krizisi ase gagrZeldes, uSedegod, winaaRmdeg SemTxvevaSi, qveyanaSi ganviTardeba Zalian mZime procesebi, savaraudod, qveynis izolacia, aseve, ekonomikuri krizisi da maSin adamianebi ukve quCaSi gamovlen ara evropuli arCevanis dacvisTvis, aramed yofiTi problemebis mosagvareblad.
– protestze visaubroT, muxti xom ar minelda?
– saprotesto muxti ar aris Senelebuli imis miuxedavad, rom mmarTveli gundi yoveldRiurad atarebs specoperaciebs aqtivistebis winaaRmdeg. protesti rom minelebuli iyos, xelisufleba Cven winaaRmdeg represiebs ar mimarTavda. `qarTulma ocnebam~ icis, rom aTasobiT adamiani, romelic rusTavelze gamodis, arsad wasula. . . vnaxoT, ras SesTavazebs mmarTveli partia momitingeebs – aucilebelia gaTavisufleba dapatimrebuli adamianebisa, romelTa janmrTelobis problemebi sikvdil-sicocxlis zRvarzea, Tundac batoni Temur qaTamaZis da qalbatoni mzia amaRlobelis. amitom Zalian mniSvnelovania, maT gaTavisuflebaze rogori reagireba eqneba xelisuflebas. Tu aranairi ukukavSiri ar iqneba da RmerTma daifaros, fataluri SemTxveva moxda, vgulisxmob imas, SimSilobis Sedegad rom daiRupon, es savalalo diagnozi iqneba xelisuflebisTvis.
– mmarTveli gundi acxadebs, rom opozicia destruqciuli qmedebebiTaa dakavebuli da axalgazrdebis protestsaa amofarebuli. . .
– es aris ara opoziciis, aramed ukmayofilo xalxis protesti. cxadia, aqciebis monawileebi, ZiriTadad, opoziciis amomrCevlebi arian, magram protestis wyaro Tavad xelisuflebaa. gavixsenoT 26 oqtombris arCevnebi, Semdeg ki 28 noemberi, rodesac xelisuflebam gaakeTa gancxadeba, rom Cven vSordebiT evrokavSirs. . . swored amis Semdeg SeiZina protestma didi masStabi da ara maSin, roca gayalbda arCevnebi da es araerTma saerTaSoriso Tu Sida damkvirvebelma daadastura. Cven maSin ver SevZeliT srulmasStabiani protestis warmarTva, Tumca Semdeg Seqmnilma viTarebam gaaCina gancda imisa, rom opozicia am procesSi xalxTan erTadaa CarTuli, amitom opoziciis destruqciulobaze saubari aramarTebulia.
– opozicias gauuqmda saparlamento mandatebi, gaxarias garda. misma TavSekavebam opoziciis ganawyeneba gamoiwvia. . .
– Cveni moTxovna am mimarTebiT daakmayofiles, gaxarias gundma ki ganacxada, rom elodebian procedurebs. sazogadoeba Cvengan elodeba erTobas, erTad moqmedebas, samomavlo koaliciaze saubars, maT Soris, bariergadalaxuli subieqtebisgan. cal-calke strategiebi da gzebi ar unda iyos misaRebi amomrCevlisTvis. parlamentSi mmarTvel partias 89 deputati hyavs. martis bolos sakonstitucio sasamarTloSi merab turavas vada gasdis, arada, mosamarTleebis arCevas 90 deputatis mxardaWera sWirdeba. Tu gaxarias partiis mandatebi ar iarsebebs, avtomaturad ver airCeven mosamarTleebs, xolo Tu Tormeti mandati iarsebebs, es SeiZleba gaxdes vaWrobis sagani mmarTveli partiis mxridan.
– opozicias gaxarias partiasTan Tu aqvs saubari am mimarTulebiT?
– Cven konsultaciebs vmarTavT. isini sajarod amboben, rom ar miscemen legitimacias am parlaments, Tumca gzas mainc itoveben imisTvis, rom raRacnairad deputatebi erqvaT.
– konstitucionalistebi acxadeben, rom Tu isini ar Caxsnian sias, maSin am 12 deputats gauuqmeben mandatebs da maT nacvlad sxva 12 deputati Seva parlamentSi, amaze ras fiqrobT?
– es mniSvnelovani aqcentia imitom, rom Tu am 12 deputats maisSi uflebamosilebas Seuwyveten e. w. gacdenebis gamo, Semdeg sxva 12 deputats eZleva ufleba, Sevides parlamentSi. mokled, 89 deputatis datoveba parlamentSi niSnavs, rom ver airCeven saxalxo damcvels, aseve, uzenaesSi mosamarTleebs ver daniSnaven, aRar aris saubari konstituciaze, rom Secvalon saTavisod. amitom mmarTveli partia marto unda davtovoT parlamentSi, qveyanas mniSvnelovani ziani rom ar miayenos.
– rogorc cnobilia, mmarTvelma partiam wina xelisuflebis danaSaulebebis gamoZieba daiwyo. Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– sigiJe mgonia es ambavi, 13 wlis Semdeg wina xelisuflebis danaSaulebebis gamoZieba komikuria, miT umetes im fonze, rom am gundis bevri odiozuri figura `qarTul ocnebas~ warmoadgens, maT Soris sasamarTlos klanze rom vsaubrobT, swored im dros gaCnda, mmarTvelma partiam ki daitova es klanebi. savaraudod, ramdenime adamianis represia mohyveba am gamoZiebas, Tumca politikuri datvirTva ar eqneba, garda imisa, rom raRacnairad TavianTi amomrCevlis guli moigon.
– ras ityviT qarTul opoziciur speqtrze? eqspertebi acxadeben, rom unda Seiqmnas erovnuli xsnis komiteti. . .
– randenime xnis win iyo Sexvedra oTxi opoziciuri partiis warmomadgenlebisa salome zurabiSvilTan. Cven dRes sazogadoeba gvTxovs erTmaneTTan TanamSromlobas. yvela politikoss movuwodeb, sazogadoebis am moTxovnis mimdevari iyos. am etapze, vfiqrob, oTxma opoziciurma partiam qalbaton salome zurabiSvilTan erTad unda imuSaos rogorc saSinao, ise sagareo kuTxiT. . .
– salome zurabiSvilis rols rogor afasebT am procesSi?
– salome zurabiSvilis roli Zalian mniSvnelovania. is aris erTaderTi legitimuri instituti, romelsac xalxi da saerTaSoriso partniorebi aRiareben. imeds vitoveb, rom salome zurabiSvili yvelafers iazrebs. aris saubari axali politikuri centris Seqmnaze, rac, ara mgonia, swori nabiji iyos misgan. is aris am protestis mniSvnelovani saxe. marTalia, salome zurabiSvils reitingi aqvs, Tumca mis mier axali partiis Seqmna saerTo saqmisTvis zianis momtani iqneba da kiTxvebs gaaCens.
– mmarTveli partiis wevrebi acxadeben, rom salome zurabiSvili warmavali politikosia. . .
– yavelaSvili rom momavalia da zurabiSvili warmavali, cota sasacilo ambavia. qalbatoni salome, am etapze, ra nabijebsac dgams, aris Zalian mniSvnelovani rogorc Sida politikaSi, ise saerTaSoriso partniorebisTvis. viciT, rom salome zurabiSvili imyofeboda miunxenis konferenciaze, romelic yvelaze mniSvnelovani konferenciaa evrokavSirSi. Cvengan miwveuli iyo igi rogorc legitimuri instituti, miuxedavad imisa, rom formalurad ar hqonda Tanamdeboba. amitom umniSvnelovanesia, rom salome zurabiSvils gamaerTianeblis roli hqondes da ara damyofis. destruqciuli Tu vinme aris am procesSi, es mmarTveli partia da yavelaSvilia. . .
– urTierTbraldebebi qarTul politikaSi araxalia. magaliTad, Salva naTelaSvili acxadebs, rom `tv pirvels~ mamuka xazaraZe, xolo `mTavar~ arxs nika gvaramia akontrolebs, romlebic mas am televiziebSi blokavan. . .
– ar vici, vin vis akontrolebs, axla mediaze kontroli sigiJes warmoadgens. am arxebze yvela opoziciuri partiis, adamianis azri fiqsirdeba da es asec unda iyos. amaze Cven kontrolis meqanizmi rogor unda gvqondes, ver warmomidgenia, iseve, rogorc sxva partiebs. sxvaTa Soris, es polarizebuli politikuri garemo axali ar aris CvenTvis, arc evropisTvis da, maT Soris, arc amerikisTvis. mediagaremo sakmaod polarizebulia yvelgan, amitom mgonia, Cven unda SevZloT iseTi dRis wesrigis Seqmna, rom mediisTvis saintereso gavxdeT. viRac konkretuli opoziciuri Zalebi, maT Soris, arasaparlamento, xSirad iseT gancxadebebs akeTeben da iseT qmedebebs sCadian, rom, garkveulwilad, mmarTveli partiis wisqvilze asxamen wyals, amitom araseriozuli mgonia maT braldebebze saubari.
– rogor afasebT saxalxo damcvelis saqmianobas? konfliqtolog paata zaqareiSvilis azriT, is unda gadadges. Tqven ras fiqrobT?
– saxalxo damcvelis instituti unda iyos yvelaze qmedunariani. sami Tvea daaxloebiT, Cven vuyurebT adamianebis uflebebis uxeS darRvevas, Tumca, saxalxo damcveli, epizodur gamonaTebebs Tu ar CavTvliT, dResdReobiT ar asrulebs dakisrebul movaleobas. Sesabamisad, Zalian legitimuri moTxovnaa, rom saxalxo damcveli CamoSordes am Tanamdebobas. Tu is amas ar apirebs, maSin gvanaxos konkretuli nabijebi. . . moqmedi parlamentis pirobebSi mmarTvel partias ar aqvs imis SesaZlebloba, rom axali saxalxo damcveli airCios da arc airCevs, radgan ioseliani maTTvis komfortuli saxalxo damcvelia.
– vxedavT, rom saqarTvelos da dasavleTs Soris urTierToba uaresdeba, aSS-is kongresSi gaCnda kanoni saqarTvelos xelisuflebis araRiarebis Sesaxeb. . .
– urTierTobebi uaresdeba dasavleTsa da saqarTvelos xelisuflebas Soris, es niSnavs, rom qarTveli xalxis gverdiT dganan Cveni saerTaSoriso partniorebi, Tumca kiTxvebi aqvT moqmed xelisuflebasTan, maT Soris, prezidentis arCevnebTan da yvela institutTan dakavSirebiT. dawesebuli sanqciebi amis dadasturebaa. vnaxeT rezoluciebi, sadac ukve axali garemocvis dasanqcirebazea saubari, maT Soris, biZina ivaniSvili iqneba es Tu sxva masTan afilirebuli biznesmenebi. dasavleli partniorebi acxadeben, rom aqvT kiTxvebi xelisuflebasTan da ara qarTvel xalxTan, romelic samagaliTod icavs evropul momavals.
– sxvaTa Soris, mmarTveli partiis wevrebis gancxadebiT, xelisuflebis wevrebi imitom daasanqcires, rom meore fronti ar gaxsna. . .
– `aba, omi ginda~ da msgavsi gancxadebebi ukve gaviareT, yvelam kargad icis, am qveynis 80 procents ra unda – es aris evrokavSirSi gaerTianeba, yvela kvleva amas adasturebs, maT Soris, bolos Catarebuli kvlevebic. aris mosaxleobis gulwrfeli protesti, amitom warmoudgenelia, rom es protesti ar mivides logikur Sedegamde, da es unda iyos gaTavisuflebuli politpatimrebi da axali arCevnebi.
– dabolos, yvela elodeba trampi-putinis Sexvedras. rogor dasruldeba ukrainis omi da ra gavlenas moaxdens is saqarTveloze?
– Cven saerTaSoriso politikisgan gancalkevebiT ver vidgebiT, faqtia, rom es omi ukve mesame welia mimdinareobs, romelmac Cven, realurad, fanjara gagvixsna evroatlantikur sivrceSi integraciis kuTxiT, vgulisxmob evrokavSirs da, cxadia, Crdiloatlantikur alianss. es aris am omis Sedegi CvenTvis. mesmis, rom es omi Zalian mZimea ukrainisTvis. warmoudgenelia, rom putinis pirobebs vinme daTanxmdes, am omSi unda gaimarjvos ukrainam, sxva scenari warmoudgenelia. yvelaferi dasruldeba imiT, rom ukraina gaimarjvebs da Cven gveqneba SesaZlebloba, gavwevriandeT evrokavSirSi, sadac usafrTxoeba da keTildReoba garantirebulia.