„ჩვენ ევროკავშირში გაერთიანება იმიტომ გვინდა, რომ საქართველოში საერთაშორისო სტანდარტები დამკვიდრდეს“
samwuxarod, xelisuflebis da opoziciis dapirispireba yoveldRiuroba gaxda. polarizebuli politikuri garemo, urTierTdapirispireba mmarTvel gundsa da opozicias Soris, aqciebi, sityvieri Seuracxyofa, faruli winaaRmdegoba opoziciaSi qveynis ganviTarebas aferxebs. am mxriv, evropaSi mdgomareoba sanimuSoa, oponentebebi civilizebulad paeqroben, saxelmwifos interesebs ar azianeben, amis naTeli magaliTia baltiispireTis respublikebi, sadac demokratia da ekonomikuri keTildReoba TvalsaCinoa. rac Seexeba saqarTvelos – opoziciis TqmiT, qveyana ara mxolod diqtaturis gzas daadga, aramed saerTaSoriso izolaciaSic eqceva. mmarTvel partiaSi acxadeben, rom opoziciis braldebebi usafuZvloa da saqarTvelo, miuxedavad garkveuli problemebisa, viTardeba. Cveni qveynis politikur situaciasa da sxva aqtualur sakiTxebze gvesaubreba koalicia `Zlieri saqarTvelos~ aWaris organizaciis erT-erTi lideri, baTumis sakrebulos wevri vaJa darCia.
– mmarTveli partia da opozicia rogor gamoiyurebian qveyanaSi mimdinare movlenebis fonze, ra plusebi da minusebi ikveTeba am mimarTebiT?
– mmarTveli gundis `plusi~ brWyalebSi aRiqmeba, radgan Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad maqsimalur zomebs iRebs. vgulisxmob avtoritarizms, romelic diqtaturisken midis, maT Soris antidemokratiuli kanonebis miRebiT, quCaSi mimdinare movlenebiT, legitimaciis gamocliT sagareo velze. unda aRiniSnos, rom wina xelisufleba dasavleTis kritikas iTvaliswinebda, maTTvis es mniSvnelovani iyo, xolo arsebuli xelisufleba maT kritikas arcki iRebs da qedmaRlurad elaparakeba Cvens partniorebs. rac Seexeba opozicias, samwuxarod, igi idealur formaSi ar aris. cxadia, opoziciaSi aris problemebi, Tumca im realobis gaTvaliswinebiT, rom avtoritarulidan diqtaturaSi gadavdivarT, es arcaa gasakviri, am dros opozicia yovelTvis aris susti da amas xels uwyobs `qarTuli ocneba~. partiebis akrZalviTac imuqrebian, Tumca amis miuxedavad, opozicia cdilobs Seqmnas saerTo dRis wesrigi, vgulisxmob saerTaSoriso izolacias da sanqciebs xelisuflebis mimarT, es opoziciuri partiebis muSaobis Sedegia. opoziciis nabijebs mosaxleoba kargad xedavs, Tumca amomrCeveli erTobaSi xedavs gamosavals da am erTobas Tavisi problemebi gaaCnia.
– qmnis opozicia dRes dRis wesrigs?
– cxadia, qmnis! nebismieri saerTaSoriso aqtorisgan gakeTebuli gancxadeba aris opoziciuri dRis wesrigi, viRac ambobs, rom opozicia satelevizio opoziciad gadaiqca, rac aramarTebulia. Cven davdivarT Cvens partniorebTan da vuxsniT, ras akeTebs `qarTuli ocneba~ Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad – qveyana diqtaturisken mihyavs.
– mmarTveli gundi acxadebs, rom opozicia destruqciuli Zalaa da gancxadebebi izolaciasTan dakavSirebiT usafuZvloa, rasac mowmobs trampis milocva saqarTvelos prezidentisadmi. . .
– Cven movismineT aSS-is saelCos gancxadeba, sadac mkafiod iTqva, rom am qveyanas ar hyavs instituciuri mmarTvelebi da qveynis umTavresi mmarTveli aris biZina ivaniSvili. saxelmwifos mitacebis formas kargad xedavs aSS da amitomac izrdeba sanqciebis raodenoba xelisuflebis mimarT.
– sxvaTa Soris, mmarTveli partia acxadebs, rom opoziciam dakarga mosaxleobis mxardaWera. ras fiqrobT?
– mxardaWera swored mmarTvelma partiam dakarga, roca xuTasamde adamiani aris nacemi, 55 adamiani politpatimaria, maT Soris, Jurnalisti mzia amaRlobeli. msgavsi am qveynis istorias ar axsovs. Sesabamisad, represiebis fonze, `qarTuli ocnebis~ reitingi gazrdili iyos, absurdia, oqsimoroni. amitom, erTaderTi, visi mxardaWerac Semcirda, aris mmarTveli partia. mokled, mmarTvel gundSi klanebs Soris mimdinareobs brZola da es cxadia. opoziciam moitana is Sedegi, rom arsebul xelisuflebas dasavleTSi aravin elaparakeba, Tu ar CavTvliT ungreTis lider orbans.
– sakanonmdeblo cvlilebebze ras ityviT, ramdenad Seesabameba evropul standartebs?
– Cven evrokavSirSi gaerTianeba imitom gvinda, rom saqarTveloSi saerTaSoriso standartebi damkvidrdes. ar arsebobs demokratiuli sawyisebis qveynebi, sadac mediis, opoziciuri partiebis, samoqalaqo aqtivistebis dafinansebis wyaro SezRuduli da mmarTveli partiis mier kontrolirebuli iyos. `qarTuli ocneba~ yvelafers akeTebs, rom diqtatura daakanonos. pirveli ivnisidan antidemokratiuli kanonebi Sevida ZalaSi da xelisufleba Seecdeba, es gamoiyenos Zalauflebis SesanarCuneblad. ra Tqma unda, amas evropasTan, evropul kanonebTan kavSiri ar aqvs.
– parlamentSi Seiqmna yofili xelisuflebis danaSaulebebis Semswavleli komisia. Tqveni azri amis Sesaxeb. . .
– saerTod, saparlamento qveynebSi saparlamento komisia aris meqanizmi, rom umciresobaSi myofma partiebma SeZlon SeTanxmeba, sajarod isaubron problemur sakiTxebze. am SemTxvevaSi ra moxda? umravlesobaSi aralegitimurad arCeulma `qarTulma ocnebam~ gamoiyena opoziciuri meqanizmi, Seqmna 50-kaciani komisia, arada, konstituciis 42-e muxlSi weria, rom, minimum, naxevari am Semadgenlobisa (anu 25 wevri) unda iyos saparlamento opoziciis warmomadgeneli. es meqanizmi rom ar darRveuliyo, komisiaSi Seiyvana e. w. fasaduri opozicia (injiebis da sozar subaris saxiT), realurad, opoziciuri kvota ar arsebobs. es komisia arakonstituciuria, konstitucias ewinaaRmdegeba. xelisuflebaSi yofnis 13 wlisTavze mmarTvel partias gaaxsenda, rom wina xelisufleba danaSauls sCadioda. am `gaxsenebas~ samarTlianobasTan aranairi kavSiri ar aqvs.
– TvalsaCinoa opoziciuri speqtris SeuTanxmebloba sxvadasxva sakiTxTan, magaliTad, giraos gadaxdasTan dakavSirebiT. . .
– aq saqme exeba adamianebis Tavisuflebis aRkveTas, aseve imas, Tu vin xedavs gareT yofnaSi ufro did rols. giraos gadaxda aris individualuri meqanizmi. viRacebma gadawyvites am giraos gadaxda, maT Soris, Cvenma liderebma gadaixades girao imitom, rom es aris is meqanizmi, romelic maT Tavisuflebas gauxangrZlivebs. Cven migvaCnia, rom Cveni liderebi gareT ufro mets SeZleben, vidre sapatimroSi, es ar iZleva Cvens Tavisuflebas, Sss-s SeuZlia saqme gadaakvalifikaciros, anu aRkveTis RonisZieba Secvalos da patimroba moiTxovos.
– SeuTanxmeblobaa opoziciur speqtrSi adgilobriv arCevnebSi monawileoba-armonawileobis Taobaze. . .
– am mxrivac aranairi SeTanxmeba ar arsebobs. dRevandeli status-kvo Tu ar Seicvleba, gamodis, rom es procesi damarcxda, amitom axla vilaparakoT, rom am status-kvoTi ar SevalT arCevnebSi, ar iqneba swori. yvelaze kargi iqneba is, rom CavaniSninoT am xelisuflebas axali saparlamento arCevnebis konkretuli TariRi, xolo TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebi mosamzadebel periodad gamoviyenoT. Tu es TariRi ar CainiSneba da politpatimrebi cixeSi iqnebian, gadawyvetileba, miviRoT Tu ara monawileoba TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi, sakmaod rTulad misaRebi iqneba. am etapze Cveni partiis politsabWos formatSi es gadawyvetileba sakamaToa, viRac emxroba TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi monawileobas, viRac winaaRmdegia, amaze mkafio pozicia ar aris, gamomdinare iqidan, rom argumentebi orive mxares aqvs.
– sxvaTa Soris, opoziciis nawili acxadebs, rom vinc adgilobriv arCevnebSi miiRebs monawileobas, moRalate iqneba. ras fiqrobT?
– ar aris swori amgvari ritorikiT saubari, es ar aris evropuli standarti. Cven, SeiZleba, gaxarias gundis nabijebi ar mogvwondes, magram gaxarias partia migvaCnia xelisuflebis cvlilebaSi Zalian mniSvnelovani rolis Semsruleblad (mas opoziciuri amomrCeveli hyavs, iseve, rogorc sxva opoziciur partiebs). mokled, `moRalatis~ Zaxili mxolod da mxolod mmarTveli partiis wisqvilze daasxams wyals. erTamenTs Tu moRalateebi vuZaxeT, samomavlod koaliciur xelisuflebas ver SevqmniT.
– sxva sakiTxsac SevexoT – `megobari aqti~ ra problemas Seuqmnis xelisuflebas?
– `megobari aqti~ aris Zalian mniSvnelovani faqtori. am kanonis daCqarebuli wesiT ganxilva miuTiTebs mxolod da mxolod imaze, rom mmarTvel gundsa da aSS-s Soris urTierToba ar aris kargi. am kanons orpartiuli mxardaWera aqvs, rac Zalian mniSvnelovania. viciT, rom mmarTvel partias am kanonis miRebis eSinia, maTi yvela gancxadeba amaze metyvelebs. yvela, vinc sanqcirebuli iyo, Tanamdebobidan ixsneba, gomelauris gaTavisufleba amis yvelaze naTeli magaliTia. es adamiani `magnitskis siaSi~ iyo. mis nacvlad moiyvanes gela gelaZe, romelic uwin koduas moadgile iyo. amitom aris mniSvnelovani, rom wnexi gaizardos mmarTvel gundze. . . sxvaTa Soris, marko rubiom mkafiod Tqva, rom samxreT kavkasiaSi antiamerikuli xelisuflebebi ar gvawyobs da yvelafers gavakeTeb demokratiuli sazogadoebis mxardaWerisTviso. es niSnavs, rom aSS qarTveli xalxis mxaresaa.
– gaJRerda, rom mosalodnelia trampis da putinis Sexvedra. . .
– ruseT-ukrainis omze bevri ramaa damokidebuli, aseve, trampzec, Tumca am omma aCvena, rom aSS-is miRma, evropa rogorc calke aqtoric mniSvnelovania. gvaxsovs trampis gancxadeba, rom oms sam dReSi daasrulebda. ar SeiZleba putinTan aseTi vadebis daweseba, radgan putini aris adamiani, romelic arcerT SeTanxmebas ar aRiarebs, darwmunebuli var, aSS putinTan brZolaSi iqneba ukrainis mTavari mokavSire.
– dabolos, dRevandeli ukrainis da zogadad, msoflioSi mimdinare movlenebidan gamomdinare, rogoria saqarTvelos momavali?
– Cveni mteri aris ruseTi, ra Tqma unda, susti ruseTi CvenTvis aris ukeTesi, vidre Zlieri, es martivi ambavia. ruseTi rom mteria, vTanxmdebiT. arian adamianebi, romlebic ruseTs megobrad ganixilaven. Cven ase ar miviCnevT. mniSvnelovania, rom saqarTvelo iyos saerTaSoriso politikis nawili im qveynebTan erTad, romlebisTvisac, aseve, problema aris ruseTi, amitom rac ufro bevri mokavSire geyoleba am mimarTebiT, ukeTesia. saqarTvelo geopolitikaSi dRes ar aris mniSvnelovani – samwuxarod, xelisuflebam dagvaSora natosa da evrokavSirs, Cven rom gavxdeT isev geopolitikurad mniSvnelovani aqtori, qveyanaSi unda iyos demokratia da Tu saqarTveloSi ar iqneba demokratia, maSin saerTaSoriso geopolitikur nawils mTlianad movwydebiT. am mxriv, aSS-is sadazvervo samsaxurma gaaJRera informacia, rom ruseTi cdilobs saqarTveloSi gavlenebis gazrdas, Sesabamisad, ruseTis gavlenebis zrda niSnavs, rom am omSi ruseTi saqarTvelos ganixilavs Tavis mokavSired. ra Tqma unda, saqarTvelos absoluturi umravlesoba am omSi aris ukrainis da mTeli civilizebuli samyaros mokavSire.
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