
„ცალ-ცალკე არიან და გაიძახიან, ჩვენ გავიმარჯვეთო – რას ნიშნავს „ჩვენ“ თუ დამოუკიდებელი კოალიცია ხარ?“
irma cecxlaZe 577 20 45 63 –
arCevnebis Semdeg qveyanaSi ganviTarebul movlenebsa da Siga Tu gare politikuri daZabulobis Sesaxeb „aWarasTan“ interviuSi politologi soso manjaviZe saubrobs.
– batono soso, ra xdeba axla TbilisSi?
– TbilisSi siwynarea, mitingi ar aris. rogorc Tavad naxeT, 28 oqtombris `Tavyriloba~ maincdamainc STambeWdavad ver gamoiyureboda. TvalSisacemi iyo fotoSopis aTasnairi versia. am xerxiT gamravlebuli xalxis raodenoba, gaRizianebas iwvevda. msgavsi efeqtebi gadaiqca maniakalur midrekilebad, gansakuTrebiT, opoziciurad ganwyobil adamianebSi. amiT nergaven TavisTvis misaReb aRqmebs. zogadad, es katastrofaa, rodesac adamiani sxva ganzomilebaSi imyofeba da axdens realobis modelirebas sakuTari survilisamebr. rodesac es koleqtiur xasiaTs iRebs, iwvevs mZime procesebis eskalacias. xom naxeT, rogor zeimobdnen „gamarjvebas“ sakuTar arxze `nacebi~… gasaocaria es yvelaferi, gansakuTrebiT maSin, rodesac gadasdiT fanatizmSi da mTel qveyanas miaTreven gasuli saukunis 90-ian wlebSi. gaxsovT, politikuri Sexedulebebis gamo ojaxebi daingra, usastikesi antagonizmi iyo. maSindeli ganwyoba brundeba da vxedavT saSineli siZulvilis frqvevas. es zizRi Tu cinizmi, gansakuTrebiT, opoziciis mxardamWerebSi Cans. imdenad arian dabrmavebulebi, rom marTla sjeraT, omis safrTxe biZinam gamoigona, arCevnebSi gasamarjveblado.
– ramdenad realurad migaCniaT omis safrTxe am gadasaxedidan. rogorc aRniSneT, opozicia amtkicebs, rom mmarTveli gundi amas iyenebs farad arCevnebSi gasamarjveblad. . .
– es kidev erTxel adasturebs am xalxis araadekvaturobas, Serwymuls Zalauflebis survilTan, siZulvilTan, ucxoeTis davalebebis SesrulebasTan, dafinansebis Sewyvetis SiSTan. . . es yvelaferi qmnis saocar `vinegrets~, rac iwvevs am qaosur azrebs da mtkicebulebebs. sxva ra unda vTqva saqarTveloSi mcxovreb adamianebze, romlebic arc ki fiqroben sakuTari qveynis da ojaxebis usafrTxoebaze.
– da mainc, ratom arian ase darwmunebulni, rom omis safrTxe qimerulia?
– kargi, maSin gadavxedoT, ramdeni omi da SeiaraRebuli konfliqti gadavitaneT am bolo ocdaaT weliwadSi: samoqalaqo omi, omi afxazeTSi da Semdeg cxinvalSi anu samxreT oseTSi, mokle samoqalaqo omi afxazeTis Semdeg, rasac mohyva wlebis ganmavlobaSi mxedrionis bandebis TareSi, vardebis revolucia. . . es yvelaferi daZabulobis fonze mimdinareobda, 2004 wlis miniomi. . . isic iciT, ra gaakeTa saakaSvilis bandam rogorc ki movida xelisuflebaSi. reformebis saxeliT, rac sinamdvileSi Zarcva-glejas emsaxureboda, najaxiT daeria bizness da moqalaqeebs. . . dagvirgvinda procesi 2008 wlis omiT, romelsac mohyva ganuwyveteli daZabuloba, dapirispireba gaficvebiT da karvebiT, rac damTavrda xelisuflebis SecvliT. Semdeg, es dapirispireba mtkivneuli rom ar gamxdariyo, daiwyo kohabitacia, romelmac moqalaqeTa didi nawilis ukmayofilebis miuxedavad, mainc Seanela daZabuloba. axla ukrainaSi omia, saqarTvelos samxreTiT – eraySi, libanSi, iranSi, israelSi – dabombvebi. rodis gadaizrdeba konfliqti birTvul dapirispirebaSi, aravin icis. somxeT-azerbaijanis kuTxiT omis safrTxe mudmivad arsebobs, omia siriaSi. . . yvela eqsperti ambobs, rom kavkasia warmoadgens dapirispirebis areals, xolo saqarTvelo – didi savaWro gzebis gamtarianobis mniSvnelovani rgoli anu geopolitikuri gzajvaredinia. es yvelaferi qmnis Zabris yels da Sesabamisad, mis irgvliv daZabuloba matulobs. ukve mTeli msoflio CaerTo Cvens Sida politikur procesebSi. aSS, britaneTi, CineTi, ruseTi, azerbaijani da a.S. am viTarebaSi Cven davdivarT alesili danis pirze, iqidan gvyavs ruseTi, Tavisi mouqneli da mouxeSavi Zalismieri politikiT, aqedan -dasavleTi, romelic moiTxovs, avrioT qveyana. . .
– dasavleTs ratom aZlevs xels saqarTveloSi areuloba?
– msoflio vaWrobis didi nawilis gadanacvleba xdeba saxmeleTo gzebis arteriebze, radgan vxedavT, ra xdeba hormuzis sruteSi, rogor bombaven gemebs husitebi, an ra procesebi mimdinareobs yviTel zRvaSi, saidanac cdiloben CineTs malakis srutidan saerTod gadauketon sazRvao vaWrobis saSualebebi. aqve SegaxsenebT, rom aqamde vaWrobis 80% swored sazRvao gzebiT mimdinareobda, rasac akontrolebda sazRvao floti da britanuli sazRvao samarTali sasazRvro kompaniebis saSualebiT. rusuli sistemis rRvevasTan da gabatonebuli dolaris kursis krizisTan erTad (uzarmazari vali kidia msoflio ekonomikaze) daiwyo savaWro gzebis xmeleTze gadatana, rac Zalian mtkivneuli aRmoCnda am ZalebisTvis. aqedan gamomdinare, maTi strategiuli amocanaa saqarTvelos xelisuflebaSi iseTi Zalebis moyvana, romelic gzebs dablokavs da SeuZlebels gaxdis satranzito funqciebis Sesrulebas samxreT kavkasiisaTvis. es aris sufTa biznesi, araviTari piradi siZulvili. . .
– aqcents akeTeben demokratiul Rirebulebebze. . .
– es yvelaferi yalbi ritorikaa da nu CavuRrmavdebiT, umjobesia gadavxedoT, ras akeTebs saqarTvelos mTavroba? arc meti, arc naklebi, saocar akrobatul ileTebs atarebs da daxvewilad, moqnilad mihyavs procesebi. igive, arCevnebi ganvixiloT: mihyva evrokavSiris absoluturad yvela rekomendacias, maT Soris, xmebis daTvlisTvis eleqtronuli manqanebis gamoyenebas da arCevnebis pirdapirproporciuli sistemiT Catarebas. . . Tanac konstituciaSi Caweres, rom yvela mTavroba unda miiswrafodes evropisken (imis miuxedavad, iqneba Tu ara evrokavSiri, an ra mdgomareobaSi aRmoCndeba).
– TvliT, rom `qarTuli ocneba~ cdilobs dasavleTis gulis mogebas, magram ver axerxebs?
– diax, cdilobs, ar misces dasavleTs frontaluri Setevis saSualeba, magram, nebismier arCevnebze xdeba darRvevebi, Tanac mmarTvelobis 12 wlis ganmavlobaSi „ocnebasac“ daugrovda mosaxleobaSi ukmayofilo moqalaqeebi, rac bunebrivia nebismieri mTavrobis dros, Tumca am ukmayofilebas, xSirad aracnobierad, garedan Cadebuli narativebi udevs safuZvlad. ZiriTadad, es is xalxia, romelic momavlis modelirebas ver akeTebs da arc imis sjera, razec axla Cven vsaubrobT.
– magram isic faqtia, rom winasaarCevnod mmarTveli partia swored mSvidobasa da oms Soris arCevans gvTavazobda amomrCevlebs.
– cxadia, nebismieri mTavroba gamoiyenebda im prioritets, rom am urTules viTarebaSi, qveyanaSi mSvidobas inarCunebs, magram es ar niSnavs, rom mSvidobas realuri safrTxe ar emuqreba. Tavad gansazRvreT, opoziciuri Zalebi amboben, rogorc ki umravlesobiT gavlen qveynis sakanonmdeblo organoSi, maSinve SeuerTdebian ruseTis sawinaaRmdego sanqciebs, Tanac aranair ganmartebas, gegmas ar deben, Tu riTi moxdeba kolafsSi moqceuli da ganadgurebuli ekonomikis kompensacia. romelime opoziciuri Zala seriozuli rom iyos, Tuki werilobiT dasturs ver miiRebda dasavleTisgan sanqciebiT gamowveuli zaralis anazRaurebaze, zepir dapirebas mainc mosTxovda.
– Cveni prezidentis qmedebebze ra komentars gaakeTebT?
– Cveulebrivi rezidentia. sul vambobdi, maT Soris TqvenTan interviuebSic, rom salome, ucxo qveynis dazvervis TanamSromelia, romelsac gaaCnia opoziciuri Zalebis gaerTianebis da maTi saqarTvelos interesebis winaaRmdeg mimarTvis mTavarsardlis funqcia. imdenad sZuls saqarTvelo, qarTulsac ver swavlobs xeirianad, sityviT misi yvela gamosvla anegdoturia. warmoidgineT, ra donis agentura muSaobs qarTvelebis zombirebaze, rom gvaramiam, meliam, `girCma~ da a.S. 190 aTasi xma miiRes, esec ar ikmares da gamarjvebis pretenzia aqvT. mdgomareobis absurdulobas isic amwvavebs, rom calke-calke arian da gaiZaxian, Cven gavimarjveTo, ras niSnavs `Cven~ Tu damoukidebeli koalicia xar? erTad Tuki gaimarjves, maSin ratom arian cal-calke?
– Sevlen Tu ara parlamentSi?
– maT umZimesi mdgomareoba aqvT. Tqven naxeT euTo-odiris da saerTaSoriso sadamkvirveblo misiis gancxadebebi. isini saubrobdnen gamWvirvalobaze, Tanxebze, qalebis kvotis gamoyeneba-argamoyenebaze. marTla salome zurabiSvili, nika gvaramia da `girCi – jafariZe~ unda iyo, rom ilaparako samasi aTasi xmis gayalbebaze. winaswar vicodiT, ase rom iqneboda da am sisuleleebSi Seecdebodnen sakuTari momxreebis da dasavleTis darwmunebas. Tan isic Tqves, daTvlaze pretenzia ar gvaqvso, an ra pretenzia unda gasCenodaT, rodesac maTive moTxovniT dadges saarCevno ubnebSi xmis damTvleli manqanebi. . . Aanu daTvlaze pretenzia ar aqvT, magram garedan xdeboda amomrCevlebis mosyidvao. . . vin laparakobs mosyidvebze, Tavad xom yvela erTianad mosyiduli da gayidulia, rogorsac ubrZaneben, iseT daskvnas deben, saerTaSoriso korufciuli qseliT imarTebian, sacecebi arian. . . riTi arseboben saerTod? saubroben samarTlianobasa da demokratiaze maSin, rodesac, Tavadac politikurad angaJirebulebi arian. tragedia imaSi mdgomareobs, rom ukve ramdenime welia, saqarTveloSi teleJurnalistebis, arasamTavrobo da partiuli seqtoris ganuwyveteli, pirdapiri, agenturuli formireba mimdinareobs. es xalxic yvela jerze erTi da imave scenariT, erTi da imave qmedebebs asruleben. ra saWiroa iseTi arCevnebi, romelic qveyanas daRupavs? es is moqalaqeobrivi valia, romelsac bavSvebi unda SevwiroT? arCevnebis Semdgom mudmivad revolucias, sisxlisRvras velodebiT da amas afinansebs da mxars uWers dasavleTi, romelic ar malavs survils, saqarTvelo aqcios poligonad.
– bolos da bolos, ras unda velodoT uaxloes momavalSi, ras izamen?
– verafersac ver izamen, rac unda ixtunon, mainc ver deben arCevnebis realurad gayalbebis faqtebs imitom, rom msgavsi ram ar arsebobs. amasTan, yvela Cveni moqalaqe unda ecados, es qveyana Tavze ar Camogveqces. erTi wuTiT warmovidginoT, `eseni~ rom mosuliyvnen xelisuflebaSi da koaliciuri mTavroba daekompleqtebinaT, ra moxdeboda, ra qaosi Seiqmneboda. . . ekonomikas Camoaqcevdnen, bizness daereodnen Zveli scenariT, ruseTs daetakebodnen suleluri lozungebiT da ra ggoniaT, ar isargeblebda CrdiloeTi am areulobiT? vin gadaudgeboda win, iqneb xazaraZe SeebrZoleboda `Tibisi~ bankis TanamSromlebiT, an gvaramia gauwveboda tankebs. . . oTxi samxedro brigada gvyavs. or dReSi ukrainaSi naxevari brigada iRupeba, an mwyobridan gamodis. mTeli Cveni opozicia, rogorc ki rusebs Tvals mohkravda, kaspiis an sevanis tbaze moadenda tyapans. . . isev Cven da Cveni Svilebi SevrCebodiT pirispir ager, 35 kilometrSi myofT. . . ukrainelebi ramodena winaaRmdegobas uweven da mainc, dReSi or-sam ukrainul sofels iReben da miiweven win. qarTuli mosaxleobis did nawils ki gonia, rom ukraina imarjvebs. erTma miTxra, axlaxan kurski aiRes da moskovisken midiano. aseTi sigiJec xom ar SeiZleba ilaparako! arada, msgavs informaciebs ijerebs Cveni mosaxleobis msuye nawili, TavianTi `bablebi~ aqvT, sadac ukraina imarjvebs, evrokavSirSi gviReben, aSS uvizo reJims gvTavazobs, iq araviTari sirTule ar gveqneba, dolarebs dagvirigeben da umuSevradac ki Segvinaxaven, anu mTeli dasavleTi gulaCuyebuli gvelodeba. ai, aseT sigiJeebSi varT, irgvliv masobrivi fsiqozia, Zalian agresiulad iqcevian, ar gismenen, Tavisas gahyvirian, ilanZRebian, iginebian, ifurTxebian, dorbli sdiT da araadekvaturad iqcevian. . . sxva ra giTxraT, mgoni, sakmarisia.