ჯონდი ბაღათურია: შემოედინება აფრიკიდან და აზიიდან იაფი მუშახელი, ქართველები გადიან სხვა ქვეყნებში

dRiTi dRe matulobs fasebi sursaTze. dabneuli momxmareblebi veRar xvdebian, rogor gadaanawilon saojaxo biujeti, ramdenime dRis maragi mainc rom Seqmnan saxlSi. yvelaze cudi isaa – fuli uceb dneba da qesatad darCenilebi, cdiloben sabanko sesxebiT Seavson deficiti. mogexsenebaT, procentebic katastrofulad izrdeba, sabolood ki ojaxidan romelime wevrs uwevs qveynis datoveba valebis gadasaxdelad da axloblebis dasapureblad. Tuki adre wasuli emigrantebi axerxebdnen binebis Tu sxva uZravi qonebis SeZenas siberis uzrunvelsayofad, axla mxolod yoveldRiur xarjebs Tu ufaraven saqarTveloSi darCenil ojaxs da ucxour rutinaSi Caflulebi, aRarc ki ocneboben saxlSi dabrunebaze, radgan msgavsi perspeqtiva gaWirvebaSi dabrunebis tolfasi iqneba.

am sakiTxze da politikur speqtrSi arsebul problemebze saubrobs `aWarasTan~ „qarTuli dasis“ lideri jondi baRaTuria.

is miiCnevs, rom fasebis zrda bevr faqtorTanaa dakavSirebuli, Tumca maT Soris umTavresia saqarTveloSi arsebuli karteluri SeTanxmebebi, romlebic konkurenciis gareSe tovebs arsebul bazars da mewarmeebi Tu importiorebi TviTneburad zrdian fasebs.

– batono jondi, ZiriTadad romel sferoSia es karteluri SeTanxmebebi?

– saqarTvelo pataraa, Sesabamisad, patara bazari aqvs. aqedan gamomdinare, ekonomikis gadanawileba ramdenime biznesmens Sorisaa SesaZlebeli… da yvela sakuTar sferoSi moqmedebs. maT aqvT imis fufuneba, rom konkurenciis gareSe awarmoon biznesi da daaweson is fasi, romelic grandiozul mogebas moutanT. aqedan gamomdinare, fasebis zrda qaosurad da yovelgvari kontrolis gareSe xdeba, sabolood ki viRebT imas, rasac viRebT da gvaqvs astronomiulad mzardi fasebi.

– erT sferoSi ori-sami sxvadasxva kompania xom muSaobs?

– ki. magaliTad, puris fqvils sul ori kompania awarmoebs da am ors Soris ar aris rTuli saerTo enis gamonaxva, rodesac saqme exeba uzarmazar mogebas. isini Tanxmdebian xarisxze, fasze da erTian fass aweseben yvela produqciaze.

– karteluri SeTanxmebebi sisxlis samarTlis kodeqsiT xom isjeba?

– cxadia, isjeba, magram, faqtia, rom aravis araferi mosdis da yvela mSvidad agrZelebs saqmianobas. gansakuTrebiT mkveTrad SeimCneva es SeTanxmebebi saafTiaqo, sawvavis, fqvilis, samSeneblo da… romeli davasaxelo, TiTqmis yvela biznesSi asea. amis Sesaxeb, lamis yoveldRe viRebT informacias, anu klanebs Soris aris gadanawilebuli mTeli qveynis ekonomika.

– ukonkurenciod darCenili bazris garda, fasebis zrdaze zegavlena iqonies migrantebmac. . .

– diax, am procesma sul sxva viTareba warmoqmna bazarze. rusebi, ukrainelebi da belarusebi saqarTveloSi Semovidnen sakuTari kapitaliT da ukve iCenen ekonomikur aqtivobas. martivad rom vTqvaT, raodenobrivad moimata myidvelis raodenobam. adre marketSi 10 kaci Tu iyo Zviriani balis myidveli, axla 35 da metia. isini yiduloben yvelafers fasis miuxedavad, rasac Zalian kargad auwyves fexi Cvenma wvrilma movaWreebma da lar-larobiT ise aswies fasebi, rom dabalSemosavliani qarTvelebisTvis bevri produqtis SeZena, praqtikulad, SeuZlebeli gaxda. aqve meore mxarec unda ganvixiloT: msyidvelunariani klienturis gamoCena bazarze Zalian dadebiT zegavlenas axdens Cvens ekonomikaze. dafiqsirda ekonomikis orniSna zrda, rac msoflioSi Zalian iSviaTia.

– anu dadebiTad afasebT am process?

– ara, rogor SeiZleba dadebiTad Sevafaso fasebis zrda, ubralod, vcdilob avxsna, rom migraciis mkveTrma zrdam, konkretulad saqarTvelos ekonomikaze kargi gavlena moaxdina. mogvwons es procesi Tu ara, faqtia, rom wvrili da saSualo biznesi am situaciiT ukeTes viTarebaSi aRmoCnda. im rusma Tu ukrainelma, aq bina iqirava, restoranSi isadila, kafeSi yava dalia da kruasani Tu pica SeukveTa, taqsi gamoiZaxa, tansacmeli iyida, turoperatorebis daxmarebiT saqarTvelo moiara da a.S. hkiTxeT zemoT CamoTvlili obieqtebis mepatroneebs, rogor gaezardaT mogeba, axla ukve sul sxva Tanxebs atrialeben.

– ramdenad aris SesaZlebeli fasebis daregulireba mTavrobis mxridan?

– Tavisuflad aris SesaZlebeli, is ki ara da, aucilebelic. jer kidev 2010 wels, anu 15 wlis win maqvs parlamentSi Setanili am Temaze kanonproeqti da yvela axali mowvevis parlamentSi Tavidan Semqonda, Tumca ver gavarRvie es mojadoebuli wre. proeqti iTvaliswinebs, rom farmacevtul biznesSi, faswarmoqmnis yvela etapze, mTavrobam unda daawesos biji – optimaluri fasi, anu unda gakontroldes, ramdenad SeiZleba moimatos fasma adgilobriv Tu importul produqciaze. martivad rom avxsnaT: Tuki es wamali gijdeba lari, bijis dadgenis Semdeg, 50 TeTrze metis damatebis ufleba ar geqneba. SeiZleba 50%-iani mogebis ufleba mogeces, SeiZleba 100%-iani, magram ara – 200-300 da metprocentiani mogebis, rac dRes xdeba. Cven SeviswavleT safrangeTis, belgiis, britaneTis, indoeTis, aSS-is, iaponiis magaliTebi. yvelgan asea, moqmedebs faswarmoqmnis sxvadasxva tipis regulacia, zogan pirdapiri da zogan iribi. magaliTad, evropaSi moqmedebs pirdapiri regulacia anu 50 TeTrze mets ver daadeb produqcias.

– adre xom cdilobda mTavroba am sakiTxis mowesrigebas?

-ki, iyo moZraoba, Seiqmna komisia da Cvenze ufro meti darRvevebi aRmoaCines. 8000-iani mogebac ki amoTxares da ra mere? kreba darCa mxiaruli. . . ratom? Imitom, rom farmacevtul bazarze ZiriTadi operatori aris oTxi subieqti. aqedan ori afinansebs xelisuflebas, oric – opoziciis mitingebs da quCaSi moxetiale brbos. . . naxeT arCevnebis periodSi ceskoSi vin fiqsirdeba damfinanseblad da yvelaferi naTeli gaxdeba. Cans, rom saafTiaqo biznesi (da ara mxolod) afinansebs politikas. cxadia, vinc gafinansebs, Semdeg iTxovs, misce meti fulis Sovnis saSualeba. es gasagebi momentia, magram rodesac ukve kartelur garigebaze gadian da uzarmazar procentebs adeben produqcias, araviTari gamarTleba ar aqvs arcerT mxares. aq ukve sisxlis samarTlis danaSaulzea saubari. aucilebelia, mTavroba Seelios zedmet Semosavlebs. kargi ekonomistebi Tuki Caujdebian am Semosavlebs, Zalian martivad aRmoaCenen darRvevebs. . .

– fasebis zrdis gamo emigraciamac did masStabebs miaRwia. . .

– aq kidev erTi mniSvnelovani faqtoric moqmedebs, vgulisxmob aziis da afrikis Raribi qveynebidan Semosul migrantebs. isini gavlenas axdenen rogorc ekonomikaze, ise qarTvelebis qveynidan gadinebaze. cxadia, gvecodeba es adamianebi, magram maTi keTildReobisTvis qarTvelebi xom ar unda gavuSvaT qveynidan? es xalxi mzadaa, imuSaos gacilebiT iafad, vidre adgilobrivebi. Sesabamisad, SromiT bazarze ikaveben qarTvelebis adgils. ra unda qnas Cvenma moqalaqem? iZulebuli xdeba, datovos qveyana da evropaSi eZebos samuSao. naxeT, ras miviReT: Semoedineba afrikidan da aziidan iafi muSaxeli – gadian qarTvelebi sxva qveynebSi. am process ewodeba demografiuli balansis Zaladobrivi cvlileba. SemiZlia singapuris magaliTi mogiyvanoT. dRes iq adgilobrivi mosaxleoba 17%-ia. maT gavlena aRar aqvT arc politikaze, arc ekonomikasa Tu biznesze. singapurelebma Tavisi qveyana dakarges. . . igive ar unda dauSvas xelisuflebam CvenTanac. unda SeCerdes azia-afrikidan wamosuli gasterbaiterebis saqarTveloSi Tavisuflad SemoSveba, radgan qarTvelebi isedac mcire raodenobiT davrCiT qveyanaSi. saswrafod unda momzaddes Sesabamisi sakanonmdeblo baza, romelic gaakontrolebs migraciis procesebs saqarTveloSi. razec Cven axla vsaubrobT, ukve Zalian TvalSisacem problemad gadaiqca da misi gadaWris gzebi dauyovnebiv unda moviZioT.

– ara mxolod qarTvelebs, aramed qarTul biznesebsac anacvleben igive rusebi Tu moldovelebi.

– da ra problemas xedavT amaSi? ekonomikurad aqtiuroben da Semosavlebi SeaqvT qveynis biujetSi. . . iciT, ra gansxvavebaa aziel-afrikelebs da slavebs Soris? pirvelebi ar integrirdebian adgilobriv sazogadoebaSi. es ukve gamoCnda evropasa da aSS-Si. isini kompaqturad saxldebian, qmnian saTvistomoebs, mikrogaremos, mTel ubnebs ayalibeben da sakuTari adaT-wesebiT cxovroben. policiac ki veRar Sedis maT dasaxlebebSi. . . slavuri warmoSobis adamianebi ki saqarTveloSi Tavisuflad integrirdebian. Tanac, Tqven Tavad axseneT, rom slavebi modian sakuTari kapitaliT, biznesebs ayalibeben da adgilobrivebs asaqmeben sakmaod solidur xelfasebze, azielebi ki Camodian xelgamowvdilebi, carieli kovziT da TefSiT da nebismier anazRaurebaze arian Tanaxma. Sedegad, qarTvels agdeben samuSao bazridan. aqve imasac davamateb, rom es naTqvami yvela azielze ar vrceldeba, magaliTad: arabebi, indoelebi, Turqebi – piriqiT, investiciebs axorcieleben da qveynis winsvlas uwyoben xels.

– adgilobrivi TviTmmarTvelobis arCevnebSi Tu gegmavT monawileobas?

– didi albaTobiT – ara! rogorc vatyobT, axlac igive `kartis gaTamaSebas~ apireben. koleqtiuri `nacmoZraoba~ isev safrTxobelas rolSi eyolebaT, maTi zizRiT Sekreben sakuTar eleqtorats da iolad miiReben saWiro raodenobis xmebs. am viTarebaSi normaluri saarCevno kampaniis Catarebis minimaluri Sansi gvaqvs. ase rom, vTvliT, ar Rirs axla am oromtrialSi Cabma. Tuki es garemo ar Seicvala, aravis rCeba minimaluri Sansic. dReebi darCa saboloo gadawyvetilebis miRebamde da jer kidev ver gavrkveulvarT, ras gavakeTebT. sportuli interesi xom ar gvaqvs – oRond miviRoT monawileoba arCevnebSi. . .

– wulukianis komisiis muSaobaze ras ityviT, Tqveni azriT, dagvianebuli?

– ra Tqma unda, dagvianebulia, magram sjobs gvian, vidre arasdros. komisia kvalificiuri kadrebiTaa dakompleqtebuli, kargad muSaobs, saqmes akeTebs, magram amis garda arsebobs politikuri neba, romelic unda dafiqsirdes. xelisuflebam TiTidan gamowovili mizezebis gamo gadado „nacebis“ Caxsna, anu isev CarTaven arCevnebSi. 14 welia, rac „nacebis“ zizRiT, xmebis mobilizacias axdenen da rodemde unda gaagrZelon ase?

– Tuki `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~, rogorc politikuri partia aikrZala, kidev ufro xom ar daiZabeba viTareba politikur velze?

– amaze metad raRa daiZabeba?.. unda aikrZalos es partia da daisajos is, visac Ralati aqvs Cadenili saxelmwifos winaSe. vinc naqurdali fuliT awarmoebs politikas, unda Caixsnas politikidan.

– aris xalxi, vinc maT jer kidev mxars uWers. . .

– ar aris aseTi xalxi. . . arsebobs 3-4%-iani miSas seqta. danarCeni – saprotesto eleqtoratia, anu romelic daupirispirda „qarTul ocnebas“ subieqturi Tu obieqturi mizezebis gamo da xmas aZlevs mis yvelaze radikalur opozicias – „nacmoZraobas“. es revanSia da sxva araferi. igive xdeba „ocnebis“ eleqtoratSic. isic „nacmoZraobis“ SiSiT, zizRiT da siZulviliT irCevs xelisuflebaSi „ocnebas“. SeiZleba zogierTi gulwrfelad uWers mxars biZinas, magram ZiriTadi masa dabneulia da urCevnia isev da isev iocnebos, vidre miSa daabrunos taxtze.

– yvela elodeba Sualeduri Zalis gamoCenas. . .

– Sualeduri Zala verc gamoCndeba am viTarebaSi, radgan Caketil wreze davdivarT. martivad agixsniT: ori gziT SeiZleba xmebis mobilizeba. pirveli: Sepirde, gazrdil pensiebs, xelfasebs, sursaTze fasebis daregulirebas da sxva. meore: ar Sewuxde sxva Temebze, ar aiRo zedmeti valdebulebebi da amomrCevels Sepirde „nacmoZraobas“ davaxrCob, gavanadgureb, samarTlianobas aRvadgen da a.S. ukve 14 weliwadia, orive mxare iolad atarebs saarCevno kampanias. pirveli gamodis da xalxs hpirdeba, rom „nacebs“ CamoaxrCobs yvelaze maRali xis kenweroze, meorec – analogiurad, oRond rom „ocnebas“ CamoaxrCobs. sanam qarTuli sazogadoeba mzad aris, icxovros biZinas da miSas jibrze, vin unda gamoCndes?

– isev grZeldeba trampis molocvis Temaze debatebi. opozicia acxadebs, radgan saelCos vebgverdze ar daido amerikis prezidentis teqsti, es yvelaferi feikia. . . Tqven ras fiqrobT, bolos da bolos mogviloca Tu ara trampma saqarTvelos damoukideblobis dRe?

– bodiSs vixdi, ra SekiTxvaa. . . mogviloca, aba ra qna?! ratom dadebda amerikis saelCo am teqsts? aravisTvis saiudumlos aRar warmoadgens, rom elCi CarTulia saqarTveloSi xelisuflebis samxedro gadatrialebis mowyobis procesebSi. amitom saelCo xan aqveynebs raRacas da xan – ara. trampma es werili gamoagzavna, ra sisulelea amaSi eWvis Setana. amaze debatebi sruliad esadageba e.w. naxiris dRis wesrigs, Cvenc maTi ganrigiT xom ar vicxovrebT. . . sxva rom araferi vTqvaT da Tavad teqsti ganvixiloT, vnaxavT, rom trampis xeli igrZnoba, Cans misi leqsika. bolo nawilSi saubrobs vaWrobaze, sarfian garigebasa da ekonomikur TanamSromlobaze. rogorc yovelTvis, amerikis axali prezidenti arc axla Ralatobs sakuTar Tavs – politikas ukavSirebs aSS-sTvis sasargeblo bizness. aqve minda aRvniSno, rom es iyo saqarTvelos mTavrobis diplomatiuri gamarjveba. gagvimarTla! . . principSi, yvelaferi erTmaneTs mihyva, iyo premieris werili, romelic CaTvales wylis nayvad, magram faqtia, rom trampi gamoexmaura da bolos da bolos, gaaJRera sakuTari damokidebuleba: mimarTa yavelaSvils, ubralo qveynis ubralo liders, super saxelmwifos super liderma. Cven davkargeT sakuTari saxelmwifos rolis, misi potencialis Rirseulad Sefasebis unari. Camogviyalibda Zalian dabali TviTSefaseba, rasac vupirispirebT koleqtiuri dasavleTis gadaWarbebulad maRal Sefasebas. piradad me trampis werili ar gamkvirvebia, radgan Cveni geopolitikuri aqciebis fasi astronomiulad gaizarda, gansakuTrebiT maSin, rodesac gamoikveTa, rom aziidan evropis momaragebis gzaze sakvanZo adgili gvikavia. Cvens xelSia maTi ekonomika. Tu tvirTebs ar gavatarebT, sxva alternatiuli gzebiT ver isargebleben, radgan aRar arsebobs. marTalia, SegvaCvies ena da jer kidev gonoriT gvelaparakebian, magram rogorc ki mixvdebian, rom brZanebiTi kilo aRar Wris, iswavlian koreqtul momarTvas da absoluturad Secvlian politikur kurss.