გიორგი მასალკინი: ოთხიოდე წლის წინ ირმა ინაშვილს და მის გუნდს შავრაზმელები ვუწოდე, რის გამოც სასამართლოში მიჩივლა
ხატია იაშვილი 591 98 24 26 –
ukraina-ruseTis omze, SimSiliT daxocil 6 milionamde ukrainelze, baTumis Sualedur arCevnebsa da moskovSi Casul `patriotTa aliansze~ gvesaubreba baTumis SoTa rusTavelis saxelmwifo universitetis asocirebuli profesori, filosofosi giorgi masalkini.
– batono giorgi, ukrainaSi mimdinare oms dasasruli ar uCans. .
– oriode dRis win universitetis kinoklubSi vnaxeT filmi `donbasi~, romelic 2018 wels gadaiRo kinoreJisorma sergei loznicam. filmi ukrainis okupirebuli olqis yofas asaxavs, romlis Semxedvare rwmundebi, rom omi, samwuxarod, SeiZleba wlebis ganmavlobaSi gaiwelos, xolo normaluri cxovrebis aRdgenas aTwleulebic ki dasWirdeba.
– moskovi acxadebs, rom 9 maiss aRniSnavs ukrainaze gamarjvebas.
– iseT samyaroSi vcxovrobT, sadac situacia dinamikurad icvleba. arc isaa gamoricxuli, ruseTi `dakmayofildes~ yirimiT, luganskisa da doneckis olqebiT, oRond maT oficialur administraciul sazRvrebSi, rac ruseTis mier amJamad dakavebulze gacilebiT didi teritoriaa. ruseTi ukrainaSic apirebs borderizacias, romelsac saqarTveloSi – cxinvalis regionSi axorcielebs (moskovi sabWoTa kavSiris droindel rukebs eyrdnoba). Tu ruseTSi reJimi ar Seicvala, rac mxolod putinis uecar gardacvalebas an likvidacias daukavSirdeba (ruseTSi revolucia arc ganixileba), sabolood miviRebT kidev erT did gayinul konfliqts.
– ruseTi acxadebs, rom egreT wodebuli xersonis saxalxo respublikis Seqmnas apirebs.
– ki, `novorosias~ proeqti. aqve minda xazgasmiT aRvniSno, rom am omSi kremli ukve damarcxda strategiulad, radgan msoflio iswavlis cxovrebas ruseTis gareSe, saerTaSoriso ekonomika gadaformatdeba. putinma sabolood daimsaxura `cudi biWis~ saxeli, romelic ndobas ar imsaxurebs, radgan ar icavs TamaSis wesebs. am fonze ras izams brazilia, irani, indoeTi, CineTi, romlebic ruseTis mimarT loialurobiT gamoirCevian, jer ar viciT. principSi, amaT xels aZlevT, ar damarcxdes ruseTi, radgan maSin erTi-erTze darCebian koleqtiuri dasavleTis winaSe. es qveynebi yovelTvis lavirebdnen, sanam erTmaneTs ejaxebodnen `vefxvebi~ msoflio gadanawilebisTvis. mimdinareobs aqamde arnaxuli, mravalsvliani geopolitikuri TamaSi, romelsac aqvs Sansi, dasruldes Zalian kargad – ruseTis totaluri marcxiT da reJimis cvlilebiT; saSualod – konfliqtis gayinviT (ruseTi Sesustdeba, magram ar daecema) da Zalian cudad – Tu ruseTma wiTeli xazebi gadalaxa da `wiTel Rilaks~ daaWira.
– rogorc `obivatels~, mainteresebs sad unda wavides mosaxleoba, Tu omi wlebis ganmavlobaSi ar dasruldeba?
– es aris Zalian didi humanitaruli katastrofa. bevrs mouwevs arCevanis gakeTeba: darCnen ruseTis mier okupirebul regionebSi an gadmovidnen ukrainis mier kontrolirebad teritoriebze. milionobiT ukraineli ukve gasulia qveynidan, maTi nawili dabrundeba, didi nawili – ara. maTi cxovreba, bunebrivia, radikalurad Seicvleba. arc is dagaviwydeT, rom am omma xeli Seuwyo ukrainis mosaxleobis sabolood konsolidirebas – SeduRda eri, msoflios aCvena gasaocari, Tavganwiruli organizebis da brZolis unari. vinc icis am qveynis istoria, isic icis, rom ukrainelebi gamoirCeodnen patriotuli suliskveTebiT da daumorCileblobiT. gaixseneT 16-17 saukune, taras bulba, `zaporoJiis seCi~, es iyo Tavisufali kazakebis respublika, sakuTari armiiT da konstituciiT, TviTmmarTvelobiT da arCeviTobis wesebiT. ukrainelebs es sisxlSi aqvT, genetikuri maxsovroba aqvT Zlieri. ukrainis sxvadasxva teritoria sxvadasxva dros ekuTvnoda xan avstria-ungreTs, xan kaTolikur poloneTs, amitom es xalxi mkveTrad gansxvavdeba ruseTisgan. omis erT-erTi ZiriTadi mizezi isic iyo, rom ruseTma Sinaganad, intuiciurad, cxoveluri instiqtis doneze igrZno, rom ukrainas gauCnda perspeqtiva, gaxdes ruseTze gacilebiT warmatebuli.
– samwuxarod, arc dasavleTi Rebulobs ukrainas, aqac barierebia.
– dasavleTi yvelafers iRonebs, rom ukraina Zlier da warmatebul saxelmwifod Camoyalibdes. `marSalis gegma~ ganmeordeba, romelmac meore msoflio omis Semdeg umokles droSi aRadgina germaniis da, zogadad, evropis miwasTan gasworebuli ekonomika.
– raRa darCeba ukrainas, Tuki ruseTi naxevar teritorias miitacebs?
– ukrainel politologebSi myavs megobrebi da maTi `kuluaruli~ informaciiT, ukraina SeiZleba daTanxmdes ruseTs 2015 wlamde arsebul poziciebze daxevas, isic, raRac vadiT, Semdeg ki unda moewyos referendumi, wesisa da rigis mixedviT, jarebis gareSe da saerTaSoriso damkvirveblebis kontrolis pirobebSi.
– doneckis da luganskis mosaxleoba zeimobda ruseTis jaris Sesvlaso, xom gadmoscemdnen?
– aravin icis zustad, vis ra surs sinamdvileSi. myavs iq rusi megobrebic, romlebic ukrainis mxares iWeren, ukraineloben. aseTebi aTasobiT arian. maT surT evropa, cxovrebis ukrainuli wesi da ara ruseTis, diqtaturaze damynili xelisufleba. SesaZloa ruseTis ekonomika odnav ukeTesi iyos, vidre ukrainis, magram isic gamoCnda, rom es droebiTia da sul male yvelaferi radikalurad SeiZleba Seicvalos.
– didi britaneTis Tavdacvis ministri acxadebs, rom ruseTis Semdegi SesaZlo nabiji iqneba qimiuri an biologiuri iaraRis gamoyeneba (rom aRaraferi vTqvaT kidev ufro katastroful – birTvul iaraRze). . .
– ara mgonia, Tu es ar iqneba im operaciis nawili, romelic sabolood isev ukrainelebs dabraldeba. qimiuri iaraRi ar gamouyenebia brZolebSi hitlers (sakoncentracio banakebs ar vgulisxmob), mxolod pirveli msoflio omis dros ixmares, magram Tu ruseTs Seeqmna, putinis sityvebiT rom vTqvaT, `egzistencialuri krizisi~, kremli gamoiyenebs taqtikur birTvul iaraRs – ufro es unda vifiqroT, RmerTma dagvifaros, ra Tqma unda. vimedovneb, aSS-is dazverva kargadaa informirebuli da winaswar ecodineba kremlis zraxvebi.
– ukrainelTa konsolidirebas bzari gauCnda, `nacionalistebi~ mTavrobas RalatSi sdeben brals, ar iwoneben stambolis molaparakebebze strategiuli sakiTxebis daTmobas.
– `nacionalistebi~ warmoadgenen ukrainis radikalurad ganwyobil politikur speqtrs, es aris ukrainuli politikis konstanta. iqac, rogorc CvenTan, aris ufro konstruqciuli, centristuli Zalebi da arian radikalebi. jer kidev omamde, iq yofnisas, kargad vigrZeni ukrainis garkveul regionebSi rusuli yofis absoluturi miuRebloba, Tanac iseTi doziT, rogoric iSviaTad Semxvedria romelime sxva erSi. saqarTveloSi msgavsi araferia. amas aqvs Tavisi mizezi. ukrainaSi yovelTvis maRal doneze iyo ganviTarebuli soflis meurneoba da is yovelTvis maRal doneze awarmoebda importze gasatan produqts rogorc sabWoTa kavSiris dros, ise – axlac. gasuli saukunis 30-ian wlebSi, sabWoTa kavSiris xelmZRvanelobam moaxerxa da SimSiliT amoxoca 6 milionamde ukraineli (`holodomori~). es wamebiT sikvdili iyo, namdvili genocidi. soflebi datoves saTesle masalis gareSec ki. kanibalizmis SemTxvevebic aRiricxa. es axsovs xalxs, arc imdeni droa gasuli. faqtebi aRwerilia literaturaSic. mokled, ukrainelebs sakmaod didi mizezi aqvT, ar endon ruseTs. me ar vici, rogor dasruldeba es omi, magram zelenskis rom mouwevs winaaRmdegobebis gadalaxva – faqtia. ar arsebobs molaparakeba kompromisebis gareSe. sxva SemTxvevaSi es molaparakeba ki ara, kapitulaciaa, romelzec arc erTi mxare ar wava. aqedan gamomdinare, unda moiZebnos kompromisi, ai, Tundac ramdenime wlis ganmavlobaSi konfliqtis gayinva. cxadia, `nacionalistebi~ ukmayofilo darCebian, magram aq gairCeva, vis pozicias gaiziarebs sazogadoeba.
– batono giorgi, gadmovinacvloT baTumSi, sadac Sualeduri arCevnebi `ocnebam~ pirwmindad mougo opozicias. rogor fiqrobT, aq `omis efeqtma~ xom ar iTamaSa gadamwyveti roli?
– `qarTulma ocnebam~ moigo ramdenime mizezis gamo. pirvelia `omis efeqti~, radgan aseT viTarebaSi xalxs sWirdeba stabiluroba da mSvidoba. meore – Sualedur arCevnebs, rogorc wesi, igebs mTavroba, radgan mTeli saqarTvelo ki ar aqvs mosavleli, aramed erTi konkretuli ubani, sadac xdeba finansebis, resursebis da kadrebis fokusireba, TiTo moqalaqeze TiTo koordinatoris daniSvnasac ki axerxeben. mesame – am Sualedurma arCevnebma kidev erTxel gamoamJRavna Cveni politikuri cxovrebis mTavari nakli – opoziciuri partiebis umravlesobis midgoma aris Semdegi: xelisuflebis Secvla nebismier fasad, xolo mmarTveli partiis – xelisuflebis SenarCuneba.
– ase ar dgas sakiTxi nebismier qveyanaSi?
– ara, ganviTarebuli, mdgradi demokratiis qveynebSi xdeba demokratiisaTvis sistemuri garantiebis Seqmna da Tanamonawileoba qveynis mmarTvelobaSi. iq aravin modis oponentis ganadgurebis muqariT. iq, rogorc wesi, marTaven koaliciebi. verc `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ da verc `qarTuli ocneba~ qveynidan ver gaqreba. unda iswavlon Tanacxovreba. samwuxarod, `nacionalebs~ da maT farvaterSi myof mcire partiebsac es Sav-TeTri xedva aqvT, rac kidev erTxel daamtkica Sualedurma arCevnebma (es ar exeba elisaSvilis `moqalaqeebs~ da `girCs~).
– `erTian nacionalur moZraobas~ yvelaze Zlier opoziciad Tvlian.
– diax, aris kidec, Tumca isic Cans, rom gaiyina amomrCevlis erT mesamedze, rac SesaniSnavi maCvenebelia nebismieri demokratiuli qveynisTvis. xmebis es raodenoba iZleva saSualebas, seriozuli doziT iyo CarTuli xelisuflebaSi, qveynis marTvaSi, magram CvenTan aravis hyofnis 30, minimumia – 51%. rodesac `nacionalebi~ Seeguebian am zRvars, qveyanaSi politikuri garemo gamojansaRdeba.
– anu `erTiani nacionaluri moZraoba~ unda wavides konstruqciul TanamSromlobaze mmarTvel politikur ZalasTan?
– bunebrivia. uinston CerCili ambobda: Tu xelisufleba mogwons, fsiqiatrs unda mimarToo. Raribi saqarTvelos xelisufleba ratom unda mogwondes, miT umetes, misi saSineli mesij-boqsis fonze?! xelisuflebis siyvaruls aravin gTxovs. ginda xelisuflebaSi mosvla? imuSave, iTanamSromle, SesaZlo monawileoba miiRe qveynis marTvaSi da gaimarjve arCevnebis gziT. sxva SemTxvevaSi, gamocxadebul samkvdro-sasicocxlo brZolaSi, aravin dagiTmobs qveynis marTvis poziciebs. Cayrian miliardebs da igive suraTs miiReb, rasac aqamde iRebdi.
– irma inaSvili da Tarxan-mouravi ki putinTan garbian. . .
– or rames getyviT, erTs, eqskluziurad, Tqveni gazeTisTvis: oTxiode wlis win irma inaSvils da mis gunds erT-erT gadacemaSi Savrazmelebi vuwode, ris gamoc sasamarTloSi miCivles. sasamarTlo movige, mosamarTlem daadgina, rom me ar gavcdenilvar sityvis da azris Tavisuflebis formats. maSin, sasamarTloSi isic ganvacxade, rom `patriotebi~ dafinansebas, Cemi azriT, ruseTidan iRebdnen. amaze calke giCivlebTo, damemuqrnen. ase rom, mec maqvs am organizaciis mimarT sakuTari `damsaxurebebi~. meorec – Tarxan-mouravic da irma inaSvilic Riad, Tamamad afiqsireben TavianT pozicias, acxadeben, rom sakuTar qveyanas xedaven mxolod evraziul sivrceSi, rom moskovi met garantiebs Segviqmnis da sxva. gacilebiT rTulia diskusia farul politikosebTan, evropuli ritorikiT da moskovuri gul-RviZliT. saqarTveloSi, moduri, meinstrimuli ritorika aris dasavleTi, nato da ase Semdeg, magram `SinaurobaSi~, pirispir darCenilebi, sxva tonalobasac ureven, ase rom, nu gavabiabruebT irma inaSvilis nabijebs. masac hyavs dasayrdeni Zala saqarTveloSi, Tu gamouCndeba ukeTesi spikerebi, ar aris gamoricxuli, kidev ufro meti popularoba moipovos. aqedan gamomdinare, saqarTvelosTvis sasikeTod, poziciasac da opoziciasac, miRebuli gadawyvetilebebis dinjad, konstruqciulad gaanalizeba da Seqmnili urTulesi situaciis erToblivad ganxilva moeTxoveba.