დასავლეთი რომ ბოლომდე დაგვხმარებოდა, როგორ წარიმართებოდა რუსეთ-საქართველოს აგვისტოს ომი?
ruseTi gaiwevs iqamde, sanamdec gauSveben
ლაშა ხომერიკი 593 50 82 69 –
Zaladoba da cbiereba rom gamoarCevs ruseTs danarCeni qveynebisgan, araxalia, miT umetes saqarTvelos mimarT. jer me-18 saukunis miwuruls gaauqma qarTuli saxelmwifoebrioba, mere bolSevikurma ruseTma moaxdina saqarTvelos okupacia, mas arc e. w. demokratiuli ruseTi CamorCa – 90-ian wlebSi afxazeTis okupacia ganaxorciela, 2008 wels ki saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg srulmasStabiani omi awarmoes
udavoa, rom kremli am omisTvis didi xania emzadeboda da misi erT-erTi mizani iyo, SeeCerebina saqarTvelos natoSi integracia, dasavleTis mxardaWera da, umTavresad, qarTuli armiis medgari winaaRmdegoba rom ara, kremli TbilisSi marionetul xelisuflebas dasvamda. swored am da sxva sakiTxebze gvesaubreba saerTaSoriso urTierTobebis specialisti, saqarTvelos sazogadoebriv saqmeTa institutis (jipa-s) profesori giorgi koberiZe.
– agvistoSi 15 weli sruldeba, rac ruseTma farTomasStabiani agresia ganaxorciela Cveni qveynis mimarT. ra mizans isaxavda ruseTi am omSi?
– ruseTs erTi mizani ar hqonda. Tumca misi upirvelesi amocana precedentis Seqmna iyo yvelasaTvis – igi ar dauSvebda Zlieri, erTiani da ganviTarebuli yofili koloniis arsebobas, miT ufro, Tuki is damoukidebeli sagareo politikis gatarebas cdilobs, anu, martivad rom vTqvaT, saqarTvelo SesaZloa sxvebisaTvis iseTive warmatebis magaliTi yofiliyo, rogorc CvenTvis igive estoneTi an lietuva iyo swored mag wlebSi. ruseTma omiTa da ngreviT scada eCvenebina ara mxolod yofili koloniebisTvis, aramed qarTuli sazogadoebisaTvisac, rom kremlSi isev imperiulad azrovnebdnen da kvlavac Sors iyvnen Tanamedrove politikidan. maSin es dasavleTma ver dainaxa, an ar dainaxa. ar undodaT daejerebinaT, rom moskovi neoimperialistur proeqts amzadebda. arada, es iyo misi momdevno mizani: ruseTs surda Tavis axlo samezobloSi Seeqmna arasuverenuli, masze morCili reJimebi da saxelmwifoebi, romelTac aRar eqnebodaT damoukidebeli sagareo politika. amisTvis ki Zalis demonstrireba an srulmasStabiani omi iyo saWiro. metic, kremlSi ufro Sorsac midian da fiqroben, rom aRniSnulis warmatebiT gansaxorcieleblad samizne saxelmwifos daSla an teritoriebis okupacia Tu iqneba aucilebeli, esec unda gaakeTon, anu Tuki saqarTvelos dasamorCileblad ara mxolod omi, aramed Semdgomi okupacia da am teritoriebis Camocilebis mcdeloba iqneba saWiro, ruseTi amasac siamovnebiT ganaxorcielebs. rasac axla vambob, siaxle namdvilad ar aris. imperiuli proeqtebi yovelTvis aseT qmedebebsa da logikazea agebuli, ubralod, 2008 wels msoflio politikur arenaze aravis sjeroda rom am mentalobiT SeiZleba emoqmeda ruseTs.
– axla, praqtikulad, yvela dasavleli lideri darwmunda, rom ruseTi agresiuli da okupanti qveyanaa, magram ismis kiTxva: 2008 wels dasavleTi ratom ar iazrebda ruseTidan momaval safrTxes, miT ufro, rom qarTuli mxare maSin amis Taobaze dReniadag saubrobda?
– dasavlur politikur sistemas arc adre da axlac ar aklia idealisti politikosebi. isini ki xvdebodnen, rom ruseTi ar iyo dasavluri tipis moTamaSe, magram arc imis dajereba surdaT, rom evropuli saxelmwifoebis gverdiT kvlav arsebobda neoimperialisturi Zala, romelsac axali msoflio wesrigis Seqmna surda, sadac suverenuli saxelmwifoebi dakargavdnen uflebas, Tavad aerCiaT sakuTari sagareo Tu saSinao ganviTarebis gza. maSin saqarTvelo ruseTis pirveli samizne iyo da ar icodnen, rogor epasuxaT, aman waaxalisa ruseTi siriaSi da ukrainaSi agresiisTvis, xolo afrikis kontinentze `vagneris~ meSveobiT rusuli teroris mTeli qseli Seiqmna. gvian mixvda dasavleTi, rogori Zalaa ruseTi. viciT, aRmosavleT evropul saxelmwifoebs yovelTvis bevrad ukeT esmodaT ruseTis agresiis, vidre dasavleT evropaSi.
– 2008 wlis dasawyisSi saqarTvelosTvis mapi rom moecaT, rusul agresias avcdebodiT?
– ruseTs mxolod Zalis eSinia. Tavad sabWoTa da rusul samxedro Tu sadazvervo doqtrinebSi omis gziT miznis miRweva ukidures saSualebad iyo warmodgenili. mas miznis miRweva, Tu es SesaZlebelia, Sida areulobiT, sanqciebiT, gadatrialebebiT, muqariT, sabotaJiT, mesame Zalis gamoyenebiT an nebismieri sxva gziT urCevnia, vidre uSualod omis dawyebiT. zogadad, hibriduli omis doqtrinis koncefciac amazea agebuli – omi unda moigo, sanam sabrZolo moqmedebebis dawyeba dagWirdeba. rogorc aRvniSneT, ruseTs ori mizani hqonda – saqarTvelosa da sxva moTamaSeTaTvis negatiuri precedentis Seqmna saqarTvelos saxiT da neoimperialisturi proeqtis wamowyeba. 2010 wels ukrainaSi ianukoviCis mTavrobis mosvliT ruseTma am mizans miaRwia – ukrainam desuverenizacia daiwyo: daiSala jaris didi nawili, Seicvala sagareo politikuri kursi, Semcirda evropasTan ekonomikuri TanamSromloba, kidev ufro gaZlierda korufcia, gadaixeda evrokavSirTan urTierTobebi, daiwyo Sida politikuri Zaladoba da yvela opoziciuri Zalis devna. rusuli specsamsaxurebi ukrainaSi Tavisuflad moqmedebdnen, gaZlierda rusuli enis statusi, qveyana momzadda ruseTis gavlenis sferoSi dasabruneblad. 2014 wlisaTvis ukraina imdenad uunaro saxelmwifo iyo, rom rogorc ki ruseTs Sansi mieca, lamis naxevari qveyana STanTqa. maSin Zalian gaumarTla kievs, rom ukrainaSi bevri Tavdadebuli individi gamoCnda, vinc Tavad moaxdina samSoblos gamaTavisuflebeli Zalebis organizeba. axla Tqvens mTavar kiTxvas davubrundebi – ruseTi yovelTvis cdilobs, omis gareSe miaRwios mizans, magram Tu amisTvis omi gaxda saWiro, aucileblad daiwyebs. risi eSinia ruseTs? Zalis, sxva arafris, raki darwmunebulia, rom regionSi yvelaze Zlieria da sxvebs eSiniaT misi. ruseTis midgoma aseTia: gaviwevi iqamde, sadamdec gamiSveben. kremlma 2008 wels buqarestis samitze CaTvala, rom mapis armiReba saqarTvelosTvis iyo signali misTvis, rom SeeZlo, ganexorcielebina srulmasStabiani, sadamsjelo da neoimperialisturi omiT gamoWrili politika. saqarTvelos rom mieRo mapi, kremlSi ase Tavisuflad veRar imoqmedebdnen, radgan maT eSiniaT potenciuri Zalis… magram es ar iyo pirveli omi. ruseTi afxazeTsa da samaCabloSi 1990-1993 wlebSi sul amaze agebda sakuTar politikas: unda dasjiliyo saqarTvelo sakuTari damoukidebeli sagareo politikis gamo. Semdeg, mTeli 90-ni da 2000-ni wlebis pirveli naxevari amas akeTebda – xan pankiss bombavda, xan ruseTSi mcxovreb qarTvelebs yrida iqidan, xan sanqciebs gviwesebda, xan Sida areulobas uwyobda xels da ase Semdeg. mainc ver Seexo saqarTvelos suverenitets.
– rogor SeiZleba Sefasdes evropisa da aSS-is pozicia omamde da Semdeg periodebSi?
– Tavdapirvelad, verc aSS-ma da verc evrokavSirma (garda poloneTisa da baltiispireTis saxelmwifoebisa) am omisagan bevri veraferi iswavles. metic, vinaidan 2008 wels ruseTis armiam Tavisi sisusteebi gamoavlina, dasavleTSi CaTvales, rom igi ar iyo iseTi Zala, romelsac ver daamarcxebdnen. 2014 wels, yirimis aneqsiis Semdeg mixvdnen, rom 2008 wels Secdnen. ruseTTan rbilma politikam mxolod kontrproduqtiuli Sedegebi moitana.
– gaxda Tu ara saqarTvelo didi politikis msxverpli? magaliTad, aSS-is yofili maRalCinosnebi (kondoliza raisi) aRiareben, rom navTobze fasebis aweva Secdoma iyo. . .
– zogadad, aseTi imedi arsebobda: ekonomikurad gamdidrebuli ruseTi ar moindomebs kargi cxovrebis eWvqveS dayenebas da imperiis mSeneblobas, magram dasavleTSi maSin jerac ar esmodaT, rom ruseTSi am simdidres swored agresiuli sagareo politikis warmoebisTvis gamoiyenebdnen. mentaliteti da istoriis Sefaseba iyo, rac ganasxvavebda moskovs dasavleTisgan. dasavleTSi imperia Tavisi samxedro da politikuri niSnebiT warsuli iyo, axla ekonomikur simdidresa da koleqtiur usafrTxoebaze unda efiqraT, xolo ruseTisTvis ekonomikuri aRmavloba swored imperiis ama Tu im formiT aRdgenis damxmare saSualeba gaxldaT.
– bevri qarTveli (dasavlelic) analitikosi acxadebs, rom 2008 wels dasavleTi ufro kritikuli rom yofiliyo ruseTis mimarT, msoflio ruseT-ukrainis omis momswre ar iqneboda. . .
– asea. Tuki ruseTi daisjeboda saqarTveloSi SemoWrisTvis, eTnikuri wmendisaTvis, qarTuli soflebis ganadgurebisTvis, samoqalaqo infrastruqturis dabombvisa da masobrivi ZarcvisTvis, 2014 wels veRar gabedavda, rac gaakeTa. dausjeloba kvebavs agresias.
– im periodSi rusuli propaganda amtkicebda, TiTqos qarTulma mxarem genocidi mouwyo osebs, realurad ki qarTvelTa eTnowmenda moxda, rac daadastura araerTma avtoritetulma saerTaSoriso organizaciam.
– cnobili meTodia: mowinaaRdeges unda daabralo, ris gakeTebasac Tavad apireb an rac ukve gaakeTe. ruseTi swored ase miudga am sakiTxs. man moawyo masobrivi xocva-Jleta da qarTuli soflebis dawiokeba da amas jer kidev 7 agvistomde Cadioda permanentuli ieriSebiT qarTul soflebze. amasTan, 1-4 agvistos mTeli osuri mosaxleoba gaiyvanes samaCablos didi Tu mcire dasaxlebebidan. praqtikulad, yvelaferi samxedro obieqtad iyo qceuli da yoveldRiurad kidec ibombeboda qarTuli poziciebi 29 ivlisidan moyolebuli. Tavad vladimer putinma aRniSna 2008 wlis bolos, rom omi saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg 2006 wlis bolos daigegma. Semdeg naTeli gaxda, rom genocidi ki ara, samoqalaqo mosaxleobaSi msxverpli TiTqmis ar iyo ruseTis mier zurggamagrebul separatistul ZalebSi.
– axla dasavleTi, garkveulwilad, gamofxizlda – ruseTs dauwesa ekonomikuri sanqciebi. mas kidev ra berketebi aqvs?
– polonelebma 2018 wlidan seriozuli samxedro gadamzadeba da gadaiaraReba daiwyes. axla nel-nela mTeli evropa am gadamzadebisa da gadaiaraRebis procesSia, romelic, Tavis mxriv, ekonomikur aqtivobasac uwyobs xels, radgan samxedro warmoeba ara mxolod industrializaciis erT-erTi kvanZia, aramed eqsportisas masze moTxovna yovelTvis maRalia. dasavleTma am mimarTulebiT ori ram unda gaakeTos: SeaiaraRos ukraina da is saxelmwifoebi, romelTa usafrTxoebasac axla nato ar icavs, maT Soris saqarTvelo da Tavad gaZlierdes Signidan.
– CvenTvis Zalian mniSvnelovania okupirebuli teritoriebis deokupacia. am mxriv qarTuli mxaris politika ramdenad Tanmimdevrulia da dasavleTs risi gakeTeba SeuZlia?
– saqarTvelom dasavleTs unda mosTxovos srulmasStabiani mxardaWera yvela sferoSi – samxedro, ekonomikuri da politikuri. Cven SegviZlia vTqvaT, `xom geubnebodiT?!~ da moviTxovoT yvela saWiroebis dakmayofileba, romelic gagvaZlierebs. rogorc cnobilia, rac ufro Zlieri xar, miT ufro naklebad surs agresiul Zalas SenTan dapirispireba. rac meti mokavSire geyoleba, miT ufro Semcirdeba am agresiis Sansi. ruseTma 2008 wels imitomac iCqara, rom dro masze ar muSaobda da saqarTvelos samxedro Zalebi Zlierdeboda. samxedro reforma sul raRac 4 wlis iyo 2008 wels. momdevno wlebSi SeiZleba bevrad didi resursis daxarjva dasWirveboda ruseTs saqarTvelos winaaRmdeg. yvela mizans Tavisi fasi aqvs, amitom rac ufro maRali fasis gadaxda uwevs mowinaaRmdeges Sens dasamarcxeblad, miT mets fiqrobs amaze, anu, martivad rom vTqvaT, Tuki saqarTvelosTvis ruseTs SeuZlia gaiRos 500 tanki, ukrainisaTvis SeuZlia gaiRos 5000. Tuki dainaxavs, rom saqarTvelosTvis mas 5000 tankis ganadgureba mouwevs, is am nabijis gadadgmamde mets ifiqrebs. amis saukeTeso magaliTi Sveicariaa. meore msoflio omSi `operacia Tanenbaumi~ Sveicariis dapyrobas gulisxmobda, magram rodesac nacisturi germaniis generalur StabSi aRmoaCines, rom germanias patara Sveicariis dasapyrobad samxedro Zalebis is raodenoba dasWirdeboda, ramdenic safrangeTisTvis dasWirdaT, es operacia gaauqmes.
– eqspertTa nawilis azriT, ukrainaSi omi didxans gagrZeldeba da dasavleli liderebi Seecdebian, ukraina garkveul kompromisze daiyolion ruseTTan mimarTebiT. . .
– radgan sasworze msoflio wesrigis stabiluroba dgas, savaraudoa, rom ruseTis damarcxebis an omamdel poziciebamde gasvlis garda, nebismieri sxva scenari am wesrigs safrTxis qveS daayenebs da dampyroblur omebs normad aqcevs. cxadia, molaparakebebs SeiZleba hqondes raime Sedegi, maT Soris ruseTis dayolieba jarebis gayvanaze, magram amis miRweva dasavleTis mxridan ukrainisTvis uwyveti samxedro daxmarebis gareSe naklebad SesaZlebelia, amitom jerjerobiT raime zewola ukrainaze naklebad savaraudoa.
– dabolos, ukrainis upirobo gamarjvebis SemTxvevaSi ramdenad mosalodnelia, ruseTma axali agresia ganaxorcielos `samezobloSi~ da Cvenma qveyanam ra unda gaakeTos, rom misi agresiis obieqti ar gaxdes?
– ruseTi am omSi imdenad gamoifita, rom mobilizacia dasWirda frontis xazis Sesakaveblad. Semtevi nawilebi dasustebulia. tankebis seriozuli deficiti aqvs, omSi Tu damarcxda, mas axali omis Tavi didxans aRar eqneba. es ar niSnavs, rom igive belarusis aneqsias ar Seecdeba, romelSic isedac dgas, magram axali agresiis dasawyebad qveyanas xangrZlivi momzadeba sWirdeba da es erT RameSi ar xdeba xolme.