ძვირფასი შენაძენი, რომელიც გზამკვლევად იქცა
oTar cinariZe 599 85 21 14 –
qarTveli mkvlevrebisa da dainteresebuli adamianebisTvis saukeTeso gzamkvlevi gaxda wigni `qarTveli xalxis eTnologiuri leqsikoni – aWara“. proeqtis avtori da samecniero xelmZRvanelia istoriis mecnierebaTa doqtori, profesori nugzar mgelaZe. avtor-SemdgenelTa Sorisaa istoriis akademiuri doqtori, saqarTvelos sapatriarqos xiWauris wminda tbel abuserisZis saswavlo universitetis profesori, aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentos mecnier-TanamSromeli Temur tunaZe, romelic Cveni stumaria.
– batono Temur, wignis gamocemidan sakmao dro gavida. ra Sefaseba misces mas qarTvelma mkvlevrebma?
– CvenTvis mTavari am saxis kvlevis ganxorcieleba da misi gamocema iyo, radgan am dromde msgavsi gamocema ar gvqonda. aWaris eTnologiurma leqsikonma Tavi mouyara da gaaerTiana eTnografiis sxvadasxva mimarTuleba. leqsikonSi asaxulia samxreT-dasavleT saqarTvelos, maT Soris, aWaris mosaxleobis tradiciuli, materialuri, socialuri da sulieri yofis amsaxveli araerTi termini. SevecadeT, sadac SesaZlebeli iyo, terminis ganmartebasTan erTad, misi fotoc warmogvedgina. zog SemTxvevaSi, fotosTan erTad Canaxazebi, gegmebi da Wrilebicaa mocemuli. am saxis leqsikonebi dargis ganviTarebisaTvis aucilebeli da mniSvnelovania. leqsikonze muSaobis procesSi gamoCnda, sad ra masala gvaklda, ris Seswavla iyo aqtualuri, ra sakiTxebisaTvis unda migveqcia ufro meti yuradReba. aRniSnuli gamocema araa universaluri. darwmunebuli var, momavali Taoba, an SeiZleba Cven ukeTess gamovscemT, ara mxolod poligrafiuli, aramed Sinaarsobrivi TvalsazrisiTac. magaliTad, mniSvnelovania, rom am saxis leqsikonebis eTnologiur terminologiaSi calkeuli xeobis mosaxleobis dialeqtologiuri Taviseburebebic warmoCndes. rac Seexeba leqsikonis Sefasebas, albaT, ajobebs, Tavi Sevikavo, dro Tavad aCvenebs mis mniSvnelobas.
– sakmaod vrcelia avtor-SemdgenelTa CamonaTvali. ra droSi momzadda es gamocema?
– wigni SoTa rusTavelis erovnuli samecniero fondis sagranto proeqti iyo, romelic sami weli grZeldeboda. masSi aisaxa qarTuli eTnologiis wiaRSi wlebis ganmavlobaSi dagrovebuli informacia. instituciuri TvalsazrisiT es iyo: bsu-is niko berZeniSvilis samecniero-kvleviTi institutis, janaSias saxelobis saqarTvelos erovnuli muzeumis, akademikos giorgi Citaias saxelobis Ria cis qveS muzeumis, aseve, aWaraSi arsebuli muzeumebis xelnawerTa fondebis Tu fotoarqivebis sakmaod saintereso da mravalferovani eTnografiuli baza, romelic leqsikonSi aisaxa. garda aRniSnulisa, gamoviyeneT wignis avtorTa piradi masalebi da eTnografiuli dRiurebi. proeqtis monawileebma didi Sroma gaswies, arc ise advili iyo leqsikonis momzadeba. gansakuTrebiT aRvniSnavdi proeqtis samecniero xelmZRvanelis, Cemi maswavleblis, profesor nugzar mgelaZis damsaxurebas, romelmac yvelaferi gaakeTa imisaTvis, rom wigni maRali akademiuri donis yofiliyo. dRevandeli gadasaxedidan mimaCnia, rom sami weli ar iyo sakmarisi dro, magram am kuTxiT SezRudulebi viyaviT.
– wigni eZRvneba saqarTvelos eTnologiis patriarqebis, qarTuli eTnologiuri skolis fuZemdeblebis, akademikosebis giorgi Citaiasa da aleqsi robaqiZis naTel xsovnas. maTi damokidebuleba aWaraSi arsebuli, Tundac, Semonaxuli eTnografiuli nimuSebisadmi rogori iyo?
– qarTul humanitarul mecnierebebTan dakavSirebulma sazogadoebam icis, Tu ra wvlili miuZRvis qarTuli eTnologiuri skolis formirebaSi akademikos giorgi Citaias. Ffaqtobrivad, man SeZlo da Semoikriba araerTi cnobili mkvlevari da gansazRvra am dargis funqcionirebis ZiriTadi principebi da meTodologiuri midgomebi. Tavadac uzarmazari memkvidreoba dagvitova. aWarasTan mimarTebaSi aucileblad unda aRiniSnos 1933 wlis pirveli kompleqsuri eqspedicia, romelic saqarTvelos saxelmwifo muzeumisa da aWaris mxareTmcodneobis muzeumis adgilobrivi samecniero Zalebis monawileobiT Sesrulda. am eqspediciaSi monawileobdnen: vera bardaveliZe, rusudan xaraZe, stefane menTeSaSvili, mixeil popovi, jemal noRaideli, vukol iaSvili… eqspediciis marSruti Rorjomis, xixaZiris, sxalTis, Wvanis, merisis xeobebs – ocdaaTze met sofels moicavda. eqspediciis arealSi moeqca goderZis uReltexili beSumiTa da mimdebare saialaRo dasaxlebebiT, sairiCairis, zotiyelisa da sxva alpuri saZovrebis zona. isini xalxSi Semonaxul empiriul codna-gamocdilebas da eTnografiul Taviseburebebs ikvlevdnen. swored aWaraSi mopovebulma axalma eTnografiulma masalebma Cauyara safuZveli ornamentis kvlevis Temis ganviTarebas. sayovelTaod cnobilia giorgi Citaias naSromi – `sicocxlis xis motivi lazur ornamentSi~, romelic man pirvelad sofel Rorjomis james SemkulobaSi daadastura da saqarTvelos sxva kuTxeSi gamovlenil masalebze dayrdnobiT ganavrco. amgvari nimuSebiT savsea batoni giorgi Citaias Tu mis TanamedroveTa memkvidreoba. amasTanave, qarTuli eTnologiis niWieri da Rirseuli warmomadgeneli iyo aleqsi robaqiZe. im droisaTvis niko berZeniSvilma dasva sakiTxi saqarTvelos istoriis calkeuli xeobisa Tu kuTxis – `queynis~ mixedviT kvlevis upiratesobaze. aleqsi robaqiZem es sakiTxi ara mxolod istoriuli, aramed, ZiriTadad, kulturologiuri SeswavliT daiwyo da araerTi saintereso naSromi Seqmna. gansakuTrebiT unda aRvniSoT, rom niko berZeniSvilTan erTad, aleqsi robaqiZe iyo baTumis niko berZeniSvilis saxelobis samecniero-kvleviTi institutis erT-erTi fuZemdebeli. am institutis bazaze ki aWaris kompleqsuri-istoriuli, arqeologiuri, folklorul-dialeqtologiuri da eTnografiuli xasiaTis kvlevebi ganxorcielda da es instituti dResac agrZelebs am saqmianobas. am bumberaz pirovnebebze, maT Tanamedrove Tu Semdgomi Taobebis eTnologebze saubari ufro vrcel formats moiTxovs da bevric Tqmula. amitomac, logikuri iyo, rom leqsikoni am adamianebs mieZRvna.
– gamorCeulad romel samecniero da kulturul dawesebulebebs daasaxelebdiT, romlebmac foto da Teoriuli masalebi mogawodes. . .
– am kuTxiT SeiZleba gamovarCioT aWaris xariton axvledianis saxelobis muzeumi da niko berZeniSvilis samecniero-kvleviTi instituti. xariton axvledianis muzeumis istoria saukuneze mets iTvlis da bunebrivia, masSi Tavs iyris Zalian bevri eTnografiuli eqsponati. Tavis droze mqonda bedniereba, am muzeumis TanamSromeli vyofiliyavi, marTalia, mcire xniT, magram sakmarisi dro iyo imisaTvis, rom gavcnobodi muzeumis fondebs, rac SemdgomSi gamogvadga leqsikonze muSaobisas. aqve minda visargeblo SemTxveviT da leqsikonze momuSave jgufis saxeliT madloba gadavuxado xariton axvledianis saxelobis aWaris muzeumis TanamSromlebs, zogadad, aWaris yvela muzeums. maT didi wvlili miuZRviT leqsikonis SedgenaSi.Ffaqtobrivad, Cven yvela muzeumSi mcire fotolaboratoria gvqonda mowyobili da calkeul eqsponatebs fotoze viRebdiT. mniSvnelovani iyo eTnografiuli muzeumi „borjRalo“ da misi eqsponatebi. ar SemiZlia, ar aRvniSno fotografebis zaal Sengelias da givi naxucriSvilis xelSewyoba am saqmeSi. cxadia, aseTi didi gamocemebi farTo CarTulobas moiTxovs. leqsikonze muSaobis procesSi ar Segvxvedria arc pirovnuli da arc instituciuri Seferxeba, yvela, rogorc SeeZlo, cdilobda Cvens xelSewyobasa da daxmarebas. maTi sia sakmaod vrcelia. saintereso eqsponatebi gadaviReT saqarTvelos erovnul muzeumSi. rac Seexeba niko berZeniSvilis samecniero-kvleviT instituts, leqsikonis avtorTagan bevri am institutis TanamSromelia, an iyo da maT mdidari eTnografiuli memkvidreoba Seqmnes. es masalebi Sesabamisad aisaxa leqsikonSi.
– samomavlod ras apirebT?
– axlo periodSi ar vgegmavT, isev am TemasTan mibrunebas, magram velze muSaobis dros an samecniero eTnologiuri literaturis damuSavebis procesSi rame iseT sainteresos Tu vpoulobT, rac azustebs aWaris eTnologiuri leqsikonis rig sakiTxs, viniSnavT. ar aris gamoricxuli, xelaxla gadamuSavebuli da Sevsebuli versiis gamocema, piriqiT, aucilebelicaa, am etapze ki vmuSaobT lazuri eTnologiuri leqsikonis Sedgenaze, romelic, aseve, dasuraTebuli iqneba.
– aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentos ra roli eniWeba eTnografiuli nimuSebis dacva-SenaxvaSi?
– kulturuli memkvidreoba warmoudgenelia eTnografiuli yofis gareSe. Tanamedrove cifruli teqnologiebis epoqaSi miuxedavad imisa, rom urbanuli kultura da industriuli teqnologiebi radikalur gavlenas axdens sofelze, iq Semonaxul tradiciul yofaze, jer kidev SesaZlebelia mTeli rigi tradiciuli kulturuli memkvidreobis nimuSebis gacocxleba. mxedvelobaSi maqvs xalxuri teqnologiebis fiqsacia, SemecnebiTi da saswavlo xasiaTis dokumenturi filmebis gadaReba da a.S. aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentom aWaris samuzeumo sivrcidan SearCia ramdenime eqsponati, maT Sesaxeb momzadda specialuri saaRricxvo baraTebi da kulturuli memkvidreobis moZravi Zeglis statusis miniWebis mizniT, warudgina kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis erovnul saagentos. am etapze pasuxis molodinSi varT. garda aRniSnulisa, saagento yovelwliurad axorcielebs araerTi Zeglis gawmendiT, sakonservacio, Zeglis restavraciisa Tu misi movla-patronobis samuSaoebs, afinansebs arqeologiur gaTxrebs da a. S. sxva mxriv, aRvniSnav, rom aWaris eTnologiuri leqsikoni pirvel jerze mxolod 50 cali daibeWda da misi meore gamocema srulad daafinansa Cvenma saagentom. ase rom, Tu am wignma farTo sazogadoebamde miaRwia, es aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentos damsaxurebaa.
– warmatebuli mecnieri, am etapze ra kvlevebiT xarT dakavebuli?
– ramdenad warmatebuli var, am sakiTxze saubari uxerxulia, amas dro ufro aCvenebs. am etapze vmuSaobT lazur eTnologiur leqsikonze. esec SoTa rusTavelis erovnuli samecniero fondis mier dafinansebuli proeqtia, romlis samecniero xelmZRvaneli nugzar mgelaZea. SigadaSig vmuSaob eTnologiuri xasiaTis statiebze, xSirad vstumrob arqivebs. aWaris kulturuli memkvidreobis dacvis saagentos bazaze vikvlev kulturul memkvidreobas, maT Soris aramaterialuri kulturuli memkvidreobis mimarTulebiTac. „boranos momzadebis tradicias“, „gandaganas da mis xalxur sawyisebs“, „aWarul naqargobis tradicias“ ukve miniWebuli aqvs aramaterialuri kulturuli memkvidreobis Zeglis statusi. velodebiT, rom axlo xanSi analogiuri statusi mieniWeba „lazuri navis damzadebis tradicias“ da „majunis momzadebis tradiciul kulturas qobuleTSi“. vmuSaobT sxva saxis kulturuli memkvidreobis Zeglebzec.
– wlebia, specialobis mixedviT, leqciebis kurss kiTxulobT xiWauris saswavlo universitetSi. ra rols aniWebT am saganmanaTleblo keras?
– diax, wlebia, wminda tbel abuserisZis saxelobis saswavlo universitetSi ramdenime sagans vkiTxulob. Zalian kargia studentebTan urTierToba, riTac yovelTvis akademiur formaSi xar da maT Tanatolad miiCnev Tavs. saswavlo procesi, xom mudmivad sainteresoa gamowvevebiT, axal-axali miRwevebiT. xiWauris universiteti qarTul saganmanaTleblo sivrceSi erT-erTi gamorCeulia, ufasoa swavleba, amasTanave, geografiuladac axlosaa aWaris mTian dasaxlebebTan. am xelSewyobiT araerTma studentma isargebla da warmatebuli kariera moiwyo.
– tunaZeebis gvaris adgilis dedad Rorjomis xeobis sofel tunaZeebs miiCneven. . .
– es sinamdvilea. Rorjomis TemSi Semaval sofel tunaZeebidan iRebs saTaves gvari tunaZe. cnobilia, rom bevrma am soflidan gansaxlebulma Seicvala gvari da tunaZed daiwera, magaliTad, Cven. es daaxloebiT ruseT-TurqeTis bolo omis dasasruls moxda. aRmosavleT guriaSi, sofel zotSi gadasaxlebulebma im mizniT, rom warmomavloba da Zveli sacxovrisis fesvebi ar daekargaT, gvarad soflis saxeli miiRes. zogadad, samxreT saqarTvelos, maT Soris aWarasac, cnobili politikuri movlenebis gamo, uWirs gvaris istoriis siRrmeebSi Casvla. istorikos geronti gasvianis kvlevebze dayrdnobiT, realuri, ZirZveli tunaZe XVIII saukunis dasawyisSi raWis saeklesio CanawerSi Cans, sadac Tavad iaSvilebTan aRricxulia ori komli aznauri tunaZe. aSkaraa, rom isini mTiani aWaridan osmalTa Zalmomreobas ganeridnen. soflis saxelwodeba toponimis saxiT darCa da amasTanave, axali funqciac SeiZina – gvaris aRmniSvneli gaxda.
– imasac varaudoben, rom aqaur tunaZeebsa da WeliZeebs erTi winapari gyavdaT. es versia ramdenad misaRebia?
– CemTvisac cnobilia es informacia, rogorc xalxuri varianti. bevr WeliZes vicnob da maqvs megobruli urTierToba, Tumca, samwuxarod, genealogiurad ver vukavSirdebiT erTmaneTs da ver vadasturebT naTesaur kavSirs.
– ra urTierTobebi gaqvT guriasa da svaneTSi mcxovreb tunaZeebsa da WeliZeebTan?
– guriaSi tunaZeebis ramdenime Stoa, yvela maTgani mTiani aWaris sofel tunaZeebidan iRebs saTaves. TiToeulma icis, gadasaxlebamde, anu aWaraSi cxovrebis dros, ra gvaris iyvnen. gvaqvs naTesauri urTierTobebi, vmezoblobT, vmegobrobT, viciT erTmaneTis warmomavlobac. samwuxarod, am etapze verafers vityvi svaneTSi mcxovreb tunaZeebze.
– mravali adamiani muSaobs qarTuli gvarebis kvlevaze. isini tunaZeebis Sesaxebac garkveul mosazrebebs gamoTqvamen. maTi kvlevebi, rogorc mecnierisTvis, ramdenad misaRebia?
– Tu mxolod Cems gvars vigulisxmebT, dRes ra versiebicaa, saTaves xalxuri wiaRidan iRebs, rac bunebrivia, misaRebia. jerjerobiT, garda imisa, rac zemoT vaxseneT, tunaZeebis Sesaxeb werilobiT wyaroebSi ar gamoCenila sxva informacia. zogadad, nebismieri kvleva, romelic wyaros eyrdnoba, misaRebia da saintereso. am bolo dros TurqeTis arqivebidan sxvadasxva gvaris warmomavlobasTan dakavSirebuli araerTi saintereso informacia Semovida qarTul istoriografiaSi, rac misasalmebelia, radgan ama Tu im gvaris istorias aRrmavebs da Cveni winaprebis warsuls gvacnobs. erT-erTi xalxuri versiiT, Cveni gvaris istoria sofel nigazeulidan iwyeba. aqedan sacxovreblad gadasulan sofel qurdulSi. aq gvarad beriZe viyaviT. adre es adgilebi sofel tunaZeebis dausaxlebeli gareubani yofila, dRes sofelia. Aaqedan, daaxloebiT 1878-1879 wlebSi, sacxovreblad gadasulan guriis sofel zotSi, sadac gvarad tunaZe daviwereT. iqidan CamovediT isev aWaraSi. ai, aseTi wrebrunva gvaqvs.
– mecniereba erTia, magram iyo qarTveli – umTavresi. Cveni identobis mTavar niSnad ras miiCnevT?
– identoba rTuli da kompleqsuri sakiTxia. mas axasiaTebs individualizmi da koleqtiurobis gancdac. iyo qarTveli, niSnavs, Seni mxarisa da qveynisTvis raRac gaakeTo. Tu aseT masStabebs ver vwvdebiT, minimum, sxvas daxmarebis xeli gauwodo, Tu verafers argeb, arc dauSavo. unda giyvardes Seni xalxi, Seni mezobel-axloblebi da a.S. me qarTveli var – niSnavs, rom geamayeba qarTvelisTvis damaxasiaTebeli wes-Cveulebebi, Rirebulebebi, tradiciuli kultura. Zalian kargad aqvs naTqvami ticians, roca evropa SemoaRebs karebs, Cven unda davxvdeT erovnuli kulturis yvela folaqSekruli, rom iyos mTavari morgvi, razec moexveva axali ideebio. aseve, misaRebia vaJa-fSavelas ideebi patriotizmisa da kosmopolitizmis urTierTmimarTebis kuTxiT. Tanamedrove msoflio Tu mdidaria, es simdidre kulturuli mravalferovnebacaa, sadac identobas, mis gaazrebas, dacvas didi mniSvneloba aqvs. mimaCnia, rom es ojaxis erT-erTi upirvelesi amocanaa da ara mxolod ojaxis. identobis cnebaSi mTavari niSnis gamoyofa Zalian rTulia. es xazi, umTavresad, ganaTlebasa da msoflmxedvelobaze gadis.